9/16/2021 - Court case gets a continuance

[Pointless Sperg]

Here's a question, but could all those videos with Barb having the thousand yard stare I.E the quilt selling video be used as evidence to prove Barb isn't entirely there, mentally?

Yes, although the core evidence would be the medical evaluation, and the videos would only be used as supplemental material to demonstrate the conclusions the medical evaluation reached. Using the videos alone would be a huge stretch, and they'd be useless if the medical evaluation reached a different conclusion.

The jury are not experts, and are not competent to make a medical evaluation. Any conclusion about Barb's mental competence would have to come from an expert witness, and the jury's job would be to determine how credible that witness' testimony is. Juries do NOT provide evidence, and an opinion formed by expertise is evidence. Jurors are expected to be laypeople who gauge the merits of the evidence presented to them on equal footing.

Even when a juror *IS* an expert in a relevant topic, they are explicitly told not to form their own opinion from their own expertise. Also, expert jurors are likely to be kicked out of the jury by either the defense or prosecution if it's discovered they're an expert in the relevant matter, as it could result in them favoring one side or the other (so the side that stands to lose throws them off).

 

[Hepativore]

Does the sentencing criteria also take into account how likely the offender is to comply with either probation officer visits or complying with SOR residency or distance restrictions? I doubt that Chis would follow any of those things, and so he would likely end up right back in jail again for wantonly violating the terms of a potential probation or the SOR. Because of that, it would seem like the more prudent thing to do would be to keep him locked up or permanently supervised instead of having to constantly arrest Chris.

I wonder how Chris would react to being made to wear an ankle bracelet?

 

[LazloChalos]

I wonder how Chris would react to being made to wear an ankle bracelet?

Outrage, after being arrested yet again for tampering/vandalizing government property with crayola model magic.

 

[Pyre]

Does the sentencing criteria also take into account how likely the offender is to comply with either probation officer visits or complying with SOR residency or distance restrictions? I doubt that Chis would follow any of those things, and so he would likely end up right back in jail again for wantonly violating the terms of a potential probation or the SOR. Because of that, it would seem like the more prudent thing to do would be to keep him locked up or permanently supervised instead of having to constantly arrest Chris.

I wonder how Chris would react to being made to wear an ankle bracelet?

It is basically impossible that they will let Chris out at all. Once he's been fully evaluated he'll either be declared incompetant and put in a psyche ward or his lawyers will opt for insanity and the mental hospital route.
Back when the leak first happened I did some research and put together a post on what would happen to Chris.

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/what-will-chriss-fate-be.96658/post-9592525

It's long, but so far it's been accurate. The prison he's being held in and the process so far has been covered, and included in the post is a lot of statistics in regards to Virginia's penal system and mental healthcare.

 

[Turbocuck]

It is basically impossible that they will let Chris out at all. Once he's been fully evaluated he'll either be declared incompetant and put in a psyche ward or his lawyers will opt for insanity and the mental hospital route.
Back when the leak first happened I did some research and put together a post on what would happen to Chris.

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/what-will-chriss-fate-be.96658/post-9592525

It's long, but so far it's been accurate. The prison he's being held in and the process so far has been covered, and included in the post is a lot of statistics in regards to Virginia's penal system and mental healthcare.

Holy fuck how many times are we gonna have idiots pop into the thread and tell us all that he's gonna plead insanity/be put in a psych ward/be found incompetent?

Read the forum before you post. Everything you just said is wrong.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

[...]

[title screen of 24]

 

[Deborah "Debbie" Grayson]

Holy fuck how many times are we gonna have idiots pop into the thread and tell us all that he's gonna plead insanity/be put in a psych ward/be found incompetent?

Read the forum before you post. Everything you just said is wrong.

This. There is a very specific set of criteria for “legal insanity” and it doesn’t include calling yourself Jesus Christmas or any other shenanigans that Chris has been up to. One major point is not being able to realize what you did was wrong (schizoid man butchering his neighbor because he genuinely believed hin to be a reptoid skinwalker out to kill him etc) because you are just too mentally ill.

Chris, in his interactions with Josh/Null and other people, have clearly shown that he recognized his incesteous actions as wrong; with Bella and The Gang he felt safe enough to speak about them freely but he knew Josh/Null would be appalled by them so concocted a series of lies about having found an older girlfriend/sugar mama. If Chris was truly loony he would’ve proclaimed he was fucking Barb to spiritually heal her to anyone willing to listen; he would not sneakily censor himself to people he knew would’ve held him accountable.

Chris is not going to be found legally insane, nor would his lawyer be incompetent enough to argue for it in the first. Of course Chris is mentally challenged and it will undoubtedly play a part in his defense, but the specific defense of insanity? Not a chance.

 

[longlurk new accunt]

It is basically impossible that they will let Chris out at all. Once he's been fully evaluated he'll either be declared incompetant and put in a psyche ward or his lawyers will opt for insanity and the mental hospital route.
Back when the leak first happened I did some research and put together a post on what would happen to Chris.

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/what-will-chriss-fate-be.96658/post-9592525

It's long, but so far it's been accurate. The prison he's being held in and the process so far has been covered, and included in the post is a lot of statistics in regards to Virginia's penal system and mental healthcare.

Your statistics are cute and nice but leave out the most important one which is how full the facilities are in Virgaynia and what kind of crazy it takes to get in. On top of that going for insanity defense is insane and Chris couldn't get in a facility like that even if he wanted - being not a threat enough to himself / others and yes I know what Chris did and no that's not enough, the mental health system is incredibly overburdened all over the west and if you're not going to be committing etika on yourself or others it's not gonna happen and not even then, if your psychosis isn't bad enough that you're unable to go to McDonalds then you're not getting in.

Sure his actions are those of a tardsperg and he tells tall stories but that's not enough. Besides Chris being in state to be forcibly hospitalized Is a different thing to Chris being guilty of doing the thing. Chris could get put in a place forcibly even if innocent of doing the thing if he was deemed mentally dysfunctional enough, if he should be in a mental facility is a different decision to if he is quilty of the crime.

Now with all that being said a plea deal that included therapy could be on the table(fairly high on the list), but that's quite different from being sent to the nuthouse for years.

 

[Apteryx Owenii]

They don't care about the homeless. Jail isn't a nursing home or a bed and breakfast.

You're just hoping they release Chris long enough for him to sneak in and fuck barb again before he gets sentenced

Holy fuck how many times are we gonna have idiots pop into the thread and tell us all that he's gonna plead insanity/be put in a psych ward/be found incompetent?

Read the forum before you post. Everything you just said is wrong.

but muh research and statistics

 

[AnxietyMachine]

The second, and the BIG one, is the SOR. The simple incest charge as it stands would not place him on the SOR. For that to happen, the prosecution would have to additionally prove that Barb was mentally disabled. This involves the same amount of extra evidence as a rape charge but requires no mens rea and is way easier to make stick. The SOR is probably the worst punishment (because it's officially "not a punishment" and thus somehow can be nastier thanks to legal mental gymnastics) so potentially adding it is the biggest stick and not adding it is the biggest carrot.

Can't she be found mentally fit, but dependant on him? Here in my country, at least, this would be taken in consideration: she's an old lady with a reduced capacity for self-care, Chris is her primary caregiver, the prosecution could make the case that she was in no position to offer consent regardless of mental capacity.

 

[Pointless Sperg]

Holy fuck how many times are we gonna have idiots pop into the thread and tell us all that he's gonna plead insanity/be put in a psych ward/be found incompetent?

Read the forum before you post. Everything you just said is wrong.

I don't get why these retards keep coming in Dunning-Kruger-style when almost every thread has posts from people with actual knowledge and experience, including multiple practicing attorneys, including an entire legal issues thread *where OP is an actual prosecutor*, all of them explaining this point over and over.

I mean, there's tons of pop culture court drama that involves insanity defenses, but they're all from the mid-late 20th century when such a defense was in the process of being dismantled in all states.

Can't she be found mentally fit, but dependant on him? Here in my country, at least, this would be taken in consideration: she's an old lady with a reduced capacity for self-care, Chris is her primary caregiver, the prosecution could make the case that she was in no position to offer consent regardless of mental capacity.

For the purposes of another charge like elder abuse? Maybe.

For the purposes of the SOR requirement for simple incest, no. For that to take effect they must show either:

-- "Mental incapacity" means that condition of the complaining witness existing at the time of an offense under this article which prevents the complaining witness from understanding the nature or consequences of the sexual act involved in such offense and about which the accused knew or should have known.

or

-- "Physical helplessness" means unconsciousness or any other condition existing at the time of an offense under this article which otherwise rendered the complaining witness physically unable to communicate an unwillingness to act and about which the accused knew or should have known.

 

[Josterman]

[title screen of 24]

Oh I got the clock

 

[Hogar Grupal]

I wonder how Chris would react to being made to wear an ankle bracelet?

Probably glue gems on it.

 

[Pointless Sperg]

Probably glue gems on it.

I desperately want the ankle monitor to be worked into Sonichu lore.

 

[Kh0rg0sKhul]

It still amazes me that there are people out there who genuinely believe the insanity plea is possible, that they're pretty much grasping at straws. I was genuinely told that he can plead insanity because he was "manipulated into the act of incest, and therefore can easily say he wasn't mentally all there." No, that's not insanity if you were fucking complicit in the actions and were manipulated into doing it. There is no case for the insanity plea. It's not happening, and if the defense tries it, they're going to have to play some serious 5D Backgammon.

 

[Shovel Mech Pilot]

It still amazes me that there are people out there who genuinely believe the insanity plea is possible, that they're pretty much grasping at straws. I was genuinely told that he can plead insanity because he was "manipulated into the act of incest, and therefore can easily say he wasn't mentally all there." No, that's not insanity if you were fucking complicit in the actions and were manipulated into doing it. There is no case for the insanity plea. It's not happening, and if the defense tries it, they're going to have to play some serious 5D Backgammon.

The value of the insanity argument isn't in an actual trial, which is probably not going to happen since the vast majority of cases are resolved through a plea agreement. It's definitely going to come up in plea negotiations though. Defense attorneys love to say "my client is mentally ill, they need treatment instead of jail. How about agreeing to time served and probation as long as they stay in treatment?"

 

[Pointless Sperg]

The value of the insanity argument isn't in an actual trial, which is probably not going to happen since the vast majority of cases are resolved through a plea agreement. It's definitely going to come up in plea negotiations though. Defense attorneys love to say "my client is mentally ill, they need treatment instead of jail. How about agreeing to time served and probation as long as they stay in treatment?"

Legally, that's not insanity. That's "diminished capacity". Unlike insanity, it doesn't affect guilt, but it does come into play in sentencing.

 

[Guardsman42]

Any one think Chris is just gonna reject all common sense and push for a Jury Trial?

Which I suspect his lawyer wants to avoid, because a Jury would torpedo Chris.

 

[Pointless Sperg]

Any one think Chris is just gonna reject all common sense and push for a Jury Trial?

Which I suspect his lawyer wants to avoid, because a Jury would torpedo Chris.

Both sides want to avoid trial. The prosecution wants to avoid trial because it eats up their budget/time. The defense wants to avoid trial because it will result in a worse outcome for Chris. The only party that has any chance of wanting one is Chris, since it would give him an opportunity to grandstand.

But Chris is also meek so if his attorney is forceful enough I think he will do what his attorney tells him to, at least while he is present to get Chris to sign papers, etc.

The only reason this goes to trial is if the prosecutor and Chris' attorney reach an impasse so great that Chris' attorney is forced to go nuclear and go ahead with a trial. I doubt the prosecutor wants to punish Chris so harshly that it gets to that point.

In the American legal system, trials hurt both parties. They hurt the defense with punishment, they hurt the state with tying up resources. Nobody wants a trial unless the state fucked up without realizing they fucked up, or if public opinion forces a dubious trial. (e.g. Rittenhouse, who has a very strong case, but public opinion made the trial happen anyway -- without public pressure they would have already made a deal with lesser charges).

 

[Yksi_Toveri]

Both sides want to avoid trial.

So what's your take on tomorrow? Are we going to see a plea deal or another continuance? I'd personally put either at 50/50.