Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[AfghanBlue]

Average cost is roughly £100/month with about a £1,500 excess for BUPA or Aviva, but you'll only get private healthcare in certain hospitals on the most basic tariff (e.g. you can't use Central London hospitals if you're on the most basic BUPA, you have to go to suburban ones). They'll all cover gender clinic stuff.

His Dad appears to have been head of surgery at the Royal Victoria Infirmary at one point, so he's a big deal.

The wait lists are because you need to go to a gender clinic and get two referrals (basically letters of agreement that you need the surgery), and then get surgery from a surgical provider. There's only seven gender clinics in the UK and only the Tavistock sees under 18s. It appears there's only five surgeons on the NHS that do MTF surgery (the clinic that does FTM still doesn't have an operating room - they still haven't made an agreement with a hospital - so literally zero arm sausages have been getting done for years). Average wait times are about two years.

If you go private, you can get a consult and walk out of there with a prescription for meds within about four months. You can probably get surgery within another 6 months (or at least the legwork, they won't refer you if you've just started taking hormones).

Come on Ollie, cough up and you could have an amhole in time for bikini season!

mate, so NO arm sausages have been getting British made over this entire two year era of peaking?
wow, imagine the further peak levels if aidens crotches were rotting off left right and center.

i think they’d do a better job than some of the yank hacks, but honestly it seems like a surgery very prone to complication anyway.

 

[AssignedEva]

mate, so NO arm sausages have been getting British made over this entire two year era of peaking?
wow, imagine the further peak levels if aidens crotches were rotting off left right and center.

i think they’d do a better job than some of the yank hacks, but honestly it seems like a surgery very prone to complication anyway.

I'm a bit out of date. The only surgical provider in the UK offering phalloplasty and metoidoplasty in the UK was St Peter's Andrology clinic, but they've now given the contract to New Victoria Hospital instead and surgeries are likely to resume next month. Rather horrifically a lot of surgeries were only part completed when St Peter's stopped being able to do surgeries, so there may be some arm sausages partially attached or what have you. It looks like there'll be a four year wait for anyone who gets a referral now.

That's maybe something Ollie could raise a platform about - there were patients halfway through a multi stage surgical procedure, increasing the risk of serious complications, and the NHS Consultant Provisioning Team was just sort of hand wringing and ignoring it (partially because, yknow, covid). TransActual UK had to confront Sajid Javid (the health secretary) just to get him to do anything. But since this is about trans men and not trans women Ollie, he's not mentioned it at all and instead complains that the NHS makes you talk to professionals rather than just giving you free surgery with no consultation.

 

[AfghanBlue]

That's maybe something Ollie could raise a platform about - there were patients halfway through a multi stage surgical procedure, increasing the risk of serious complications, and the NHS Consultant Provisioning Team was just sort of hand wringing and ignoring it (partially because, yknow, covid). TransActual UK had to confront Sajid Javid (the health secretary) just to get him to do anything. But since this is about trans men and not trans women Ollie, he's not mentioned it at all and instead complains that the NHS makes you talk to professionals rather than just giving you free surgery with no consultation.

He is in fact suuuuuuuper vague about it all.
He talks a LOT but says very little.
Self aggrandising sloganeering, the opposite of good, useful, unselfish activism-the type that is specific, works away and actually makes progress and effects lives.
rather shout like a mass produced SWP load of posters, the sort that turn up at every protest-
(the one based thing the event Tube is speaking at actually- said outright in the promotion that the SWP are not welcome; good for them there.)

@AssignedEva is it you or @Tombigbee who knows people who might be along at that, or could get along yourself?
lob a kiwi fruit, lol.
nah fr he is going to paint himself into a logical corner: i mean i guess he will try his crowd whipping up theories like last time but who knows, the way the other speakers directions go, could mean that he gets bogged down in detail he hasn’t a leg to stand on with, or risks repeating what everyone else has just said.

I wonder if anyone will step out the door from NHS England with something to say- doubt, obviously, sadly.

This protest will either be ignored, or a massive backfiring in the ‘TRA’ favour.
None of those people deserve that title as all they are doing is self promotion which if anything hurts trans people

 

[PennyAni]

Ok let's imagine the NHS does what he wants. Would he ever actually walk the walk and cut his dick off?

Personally I don't think so. Everything he says just comes across like statements to appeal to the Rat King and be a wannabe activist.

Never. Would bet anything on it.

 

[AssignedEva]

@AssignedEva is it you or @Tombigbee who knows people who might be along at that, or could get along yourself?
lob a kiwi fruit, lol.
nah fr he is going to paint himself into a logical corner: i mean i guess he will try his crowd whipping up theories like last time but who knows, the way the other speakers directions go, could mean that he gets bogged down in detail he hasn’t a leg to stand on with, or risks repeating what everyone else has just said. i wonder if anyone will step out from nhs england with something to say. this protect will either be ignore or a massive backfiring in the ‘TRA’ favour. none of those people deserve that title as all they are doing is self promotion which if anything hurts trans people

Transgender Action Block? Maybe. My mates went along to Trans Pride largely because basically it was an excuse for a day out in Soho on a hot sunny day; to wave some signs, get some selfies for the gram, day drink and pat yourself on the back for doing "activism".

Having a candlelit vigil on a drizzly December evening in Elephant & Castle is not going to be as fun. I've heard people talking about it but it's only three weekends before Christmas, so I'm pretty sure most people will just be doing Christmas parties with friends.

It's also a bit more controversial because while trans pride was mostly yelling "Trans Rights!", this one requires you to agree to "the right to change our bodies in the ways we want or need to", "demand the opportunity to choose between different dosages and combinations of hormones", "resume treating children and young people immediately", "not rely on dysphoria as a clinical diagnosis", which is the "cause of the current bottleneck", "gender identity counselling lead by trans and gender noncomforming people", "an end to gender identity clinics" etc. etc.

Trans people sometimes don't get the dosages or HRT regimens they want, usually because either an endo is concerned that their liver will dissolve or because it's one of the batshit non binary people who wants MAX OESTROGEN and MAX TESTOSTERONE. They're essentially saying they want to scrap any diagnostic barriers to HRT and any medical oversight on HRT regimens, and make it so you can go to your GP, tell them "I want 10mg/day estradiol, 300mg/day progesterone and 300mg/day spironolactone" and they'll write you a prescription there and then along with a referral to Dr Moonshine Flutterbeam, trans woman therapist extraordinaire, who'll tell you how brave you are and talk you through massive mommy milker surgery options. This is not how the NHS works, and especially with FTM HRT it would be a nightmare, as testosterone is a Class 2 steroid and therefore a controlled substance (how are you going to make sure the enby isn't just getting steroids for her body builder mates?).

I'm not saying my mates have peaked, but I think there's enough there to give them some pause. I am actually going out in South London that weekend so I guess I might be in the area to wander by.

Also again I must stress that cis people only get access to gamete storage if they're about to undergo fertility damaging treatments. A cis woman can't get her eggs frozen because she wants to focus on her career for the next decade and have the option to have kids later, she would need to go private. Although the Department of Health is having a consultation on whether or not the NHS should offer gamete storage for "social reasons". You need a referral either way because not all Clinical Commissioning Groups fund gamete storage for anyone (it's a bit of a postcode lottery) and some Clinical Commissioning Groups will fund gamete storage but make you pay if you want to use the gametes later on, so you need to have a talk through about it.

 

[Dr George Whitebread]

The wait lists are because you need to go to a gender clinic and get two referrals (basically letters of agreement that you need the surgery), and then get surgery from a surgical provider. There's only seven gender clinics in the UK and only the Tavistock sees under 18s.

There's a few stages before that too. The wait lists were previously quite reasonable. More-so it took a few years to go from your first referral to final diagnosis. You're then clear to either get the chippity-chop if certain criteria are met and go on a separate wait list for that or go straight on HRT and call it a day. I wonder if when the "wait list" is described to others a few trannies like to take liberties and forget to mention you actually have to get real psychologist evaluations before you get into the clinic, and that's part of the wait.

That's where the bulk will be. The NHS go through a "pathway" where the concept is you can go as far as you feel. You get referred from your GP to a psychiatrist, then a psychosexual counsellor at hospital near you. Only then do you actually get to go to a gender clinic. It's specifically designed to weed out transtrenders and give the best effective care.

A lot of troons seem to think that as soon as you go to the GP it's "Welp guess you're right time to get you on that wait list!" when in reality you're actually taking up the time of other psychiatrists beforehand and the sense of entitlement is outrageous. Seems perfect for Olly to beat his chest and call himself the hero when you're always in the "right." After all, it should be that you can barge down the door at the gender clinic and scream about how you're a brave wahaman who needs the estrogens. But you have to actually get a few rounds of therapy beforehand. It's Barbaric! Almost as if it's incredibly easy to just fake being trans! Specifically for YouTube money!

 

[The Mad Pirate]

Trans people sometimes don't get the dosages or HRT regimens they want, usually because either an endo is concerned that their liver will dissolve or because it's one of the batshit non binary people who wants MAX OESTROGEN and MAX TESTOSTERONE. They're essentially saying they want to scrap any diagnostic barriers to HRT and any medical oversight on HRT regimens, and make it so you can go to your GP, tell them "I want 10mg/day estradiol, 300mg/day progesterone and 300mg/day spironolactone" and they'll write you a prescription there and then along with a referral to Dr Moonshine Flutterbeam, trans woman therapist extraordinaire, who'll tell you how brave you are and talk you through massive mommy milker surgery options. This is not how the NHS works, and especially with FTM HRT it would be a nightmare, as testosterone is a Class 2 steroid and therefore a controlled substance (how are you going to make sure the enby isn't just getting steroids for her body builder mates?).

That just sounds like trans people trying to rise the infamous 41% statistic up to maybe 60% or 70%. Irresponsibly toying with hormones with minimal medical supervision ( or even no supervision at all ) could literally kill them ( specially when estradiol tends to form blood clots ). But then again, their narcissism is just too high in them. Funny enough, if people in the NHS were actually "systemic transphobe" they will be all for it, specially because the death rate it would be so high it would basically mean the trans population exterminating themselves by the magic of natural selection.

 

[AfghanBlue]

Transgender Action Block? Maybe. My mates went along to Trans Pride largely because basically it was an excuse for a day out in Soho on a hot sunny day; to wave some signs, get some selfies for the gram, day drink and pat yourself on the back for doing "activism".

Having a candlelit vigil on a drizzly December evening in Elephant & Castle is not going to be as fun. I've heard people talking about it but it's only three weekends before Christmas, so I'm pretty sure most people will just be doing Christmas parties with friends.

It's also a bit more controversial because while trans pride was mostly yelling "Trans Rights!", this one requires you to agree to "the right to change our bodies in the ways we want or need to", "demand the opportunity to choose between different dosages and combinations of hormones", "resume treating children and young people immediately", "not rely on dysphoria as a clinical diagnosis", which is the "cause of the current bottleneck", "gender identity counselling lead by trans and gender noncomforming people", "an end to gender identity clinics" etc. etc.

Trans people sometimes don't get the dosages or HRT regimens they want, usually because either an endo is concerned that their liver will dissolve or because it's one of the batshit non binary people who wants MAX OESTROGEN and MAX TESTOSTERONE. They're essentially saying they want to scrap any diagnostic barriers to HRT and any medical oversight on HRT regimens, and make it so you can go to your GP, tell them "I want 10mg/day estradiol, 300mg/day progesterone and 300mg/day spironolactone" and they'll write you a prescription there and then along with a referral to Dr Moonshine Flutterbeam, trans woman therapist extraordinaire, who'll tell you how brave you are and talk you through massive mommy milker surgery options. This is not how the NHS works, and especially with FTM HRT it would be a nightmare, as testosterone is a Class 2 steroid and therefore a controlled substance (how are you going to make sure the enby isn't just getting steroids for her body builder mates?).

I'm not saying my mates have peaked, but I think there's enough there to give them some pause. I am actually going out in South London that weekend so I guess I might be in the area to wander by.

Also again I must stress that cis people only get access to gamete storage if they're about to undergo fertility damaging treatments. A cis woman can't get her eggs frozen because she wants to focus on her career for the next decade and have the option to have kids later, she would need to go private. Although the Department of Health is having a consultation on whether or not the NHS should offer gamete storage for "social reasons". You need a referral either way because not all Clinical Commissioning Groups fund gamete storage for anyone (it's a bit of a postcode lottery) and some Clinical Commissioning Groups will fund gamete storage but make you pay if you want to use the gametes later on, so you need to have a talk through about it.

just gooogled gamete storage cos honestly, i've never known wtf it means, and lol, the GIC.NHS site is actually the top result.
So its sperm / egg freezing, and its clearly more easily on the table if you are trans- cos like you say, as a cis woman you dont think 'i can get my eggs frozen for some time unknown' you just think uhhh...hopefully i have a kid before its too late if i've got other stuff going on/not going on.

No one except super bigwig CEO boss-bitches even consider it an option. Like..you take the hand life deals you, and that may or may not work out to your barbie Dreamhouse stencil, being as its not an assumptive given that you get hundreds of thou medical resources spunked on you, when you know...grandmas are getting turfed out of their beds.
And YES we know that's not good but its the state of affairs we're in until LITERALLY YOU start paying more taxes, m8.

Tube's Troonist maybes are pure Karenocracy, legit;
Unless you're loaded and can pick and choose your future accordingly, you don't think of fkn sperm/egg freezing as even a potentiality??
Maybe you don't meet the person you like and you're a bit old: the general back-up plan is adopt or foster.
But could a Tube really even pretend to love something that isn't EVEN genetically a true and honest Tubelette?
when even THAT would be a struggle, once it starts wrong thinking at about 18 months?
Psssh, pls. Nee chance man.

 

[narcissistic injury]

 

[esmeggs]

W o w

 

[fax machine]

View attachment 2744418
W o w

literally becoming a /tttt/ post

 

[scathefire]

It's also a bit more controversial because while trans pride was mostly yelling "Trans Rights!", this one requires you to agree to "the right to change our bodies in the ways we want or need to", "demand the opportunity to choose between different dosages and combinations of hormones", "resume treating children and young people immediately", "not rely on dysphoria as a clinical diagnosis", which is the "cause of the current bottleneck", "gender identity counselling lead by trans and gender noncomforming people", "an end to gender identity clinics" etc. etc.

What even are "trans rights", though? There are no actual rights that they don't already have. The things you listed are essentially what "trans rights" consist of. In other words, insane bullshit being propped up as "basic human rights". I guess it's being framed as the right to "healthcare" but I don't personally view rights as something that the government is in charge of providing for you.

 

[Futaba]

View attachment 2744424
literally becoming a /tttt/ post

Well call me Joan of Snark, I will play into the larp have my trusty big lesbian sword at my side when I watch choobs new vid!

 

[AssignedEva]

I have a sinking suspicion the armour is so Ollie can cast himself as a trans Joan of Arc figure, a warrior fighting for trans rights against the evil NHS.

I hope I'm right. His continued larp as the most famous British trans person is alienating a lot of his fanbase.

What even are "trans rights", though? There are no actual rights that they don't already have. The things you listed are essentially what "trans rights" consist of. In other words, insane bullshit being propped up as "basic human rights". I guess it's being framed as the right to "healthcare" but I don't personally view rights as something that the government is in charge of providing for you.

The point is that you can yell a slogan like "Trans Rights!" and feel good without thinking. To quote Milan Kundera:

Spoiler: Quotes

The feeling induced by kitsch must be kind the multitudes can share. Kitsch may not, therefore, depend on an unusual situation; it must derive from the basic images people have engraved in their memories: the ungrateful daughter, the neglected father, children running on the grass, the motherland betrayed, first love.

Kitsch causes two tears to flow in quick succession. The first tear says: How nice to see children running on the grass. The second tears says: How nice to be moved, together with all mankind, by children running on the grass. It is the second tear that makes kitsch kitsch.

Those of us who live in a society where various political tendencies exist side by side and competing influences cancel or limit one another can manage more or less to escape the kitsch inquisition: the individual can preserve his individuality. The artist can create unusual works. But whenever a single political movement corners power, we find ourselves in the realm of totalitarian kitsch.

When I say "totalitarian," what I mean is that everything that infringes on kitsch must be banished for life: every display of individualism (because a deviation from the collective is a spit in the eye of the smiling brotherhood); every doubt (be-cause anyone who starts doubting details will end by doubting life itself); all irony (because in the realm of kitsch everything must be taken quite seriously

I'm not being too harsh on my friends here because they're my friends, but a lot of these protests are kitsch. You get to yell slogans and hold signs in a way that evokes the reified good fight of the 1960s, and feel good about yourself for being part of the collective movement working towards justice and liberty of the oppressed. You don't think, because you don't have to - you just yell "trans women are women" or "black lives matter" or "all cops are bastards" or "no ifs, no buts, no public sector cuts", aimed at a vague bad and demanding vague good. No specifics.

It's an intoxicating feeling and one I myself am familiar with from participating in those marches back in the day. So that's my point. "Trans Rights!" is a demand to stop Bad Things and to fight for Good Things. Once a movement starts to propose concrete things and lays out specific demands, that can knock the wind out of its sails a bit as the less devout members of the movement re-engage in critical thinking and take a step back.

 

[Shotgun Badger]

'Trans rights' is useful as a slogan because even compared to other ones its particularly vague. I think that's because when trans activists start to go into details at all things get very questionable very quickly and the kind of people who unthinkingly go 'Yes, I support the ill-defined progressive cause mostly for my self image as a good person!' start to get more engaged and might say 'Wait, we're going to allow male sex offenders to transfer to women's prisons? We're going to erase the distinction between men and women's sports in spite of the obvious reasons we have that distinction at all? We're going to make it very easy for underaged people to get really quite considerable hormonal and surgical procedures for very vaguely defined ideas of 'true gender' that can have consequences that last permanently including sterilization with absolutely no guarantee that they won't completely change their mind in a few years but be saddled with the consequences anyway because we are simultaneously trying to erase the concept of dysphoria as a pre-requisite for being trans and receiving these kinds of interventions, oh also parents who feel apprehensive about this will be strung up as actively abusive and doctors and schools might work to conceal their own kid's transitions from them and parents who don't completely affirm this can get prosecuted by the state and have their children taken away from them, oh and on top of all of that the research behind all of this is contested and controversial to say the least with actions from major institutions in places like Sweden suggesting that some experts are seriously doubting the value of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones as something that should be given to non-gender conforming youths? I'm not so sure when you put it like that....'

Anyway, I just hope that Abigail will wear a full set of enclosed plate armor to give us a break from having to look at his dumb face this time around.

 

[NationalBolshevik]

'Trans rights' is a thought terminating cliché.

Its remarkable how many things from 'when prophecy fails' you find alive and kicking in modern.... Movements.

Spoiler: Fine I'll say it

cults

 

[fax machine]

I was confused when I saw this. What kind of reply is “rekt lmao”? The PinkNews article is innocuous fluff, the kind of listicle every content mill starts to churn out at this time of year…

Then I realized.

1. Precious Brady-Davis
2. Shon Faye
3. Quinn
4. Laurel Hubbard
5. Tashnuva Anan Shishir
6. Leyna Bloom
7. Tylan Grant
8. Rachel Levine
9. Elliot Page
10. MJ Rodriguez

He’s rekt because he isn’t on the list. As if he has a shot at lists like this! As if his absence is significant enough to note, as if Princess Philosopher Abigail Thorn would sit naturally among professional actors and athletes and a bestselling writer and a Sports Illustrated cover model. The joke aims for self-effacing, but the arrogance of the premise blows me away.

I don’t know why I continue to be surprised by the size of this man’s head. Should have learned by now that it’s always bigger than I could possibly imagine.

 

[Shotgun Badger]

View attachment 2745417

I was confused when I saw this. What kind of reply is “rekt lmao”? The PinkNews article is innocuous fluff, the kind of listicle every content mill starts to churn out at this time of year…

Then I realized.

1. Precious Brady-Davis
2. Shon Faye
3. Quinn
4. Laurel Hubbard
5. Tashnuva Anan Shishir
6. Leyna Bloom
7. Tylan Grant
8. Rachel Levine
9. Elliot Page
10. MJ Rodriguez

He’s rekt because he isn’t on the list. As if he has a shot at lists like this! As if his absence is significant enough to note, as if Princess Philosopher Abigail Thorn would sit naturally among professional actors and athletes and a bestselling writer and a Sports Illustrated cover model. The joke aims for self-effacing, but the arrogance of the premise blows me away.

I don’t know why I continue to be surprised by the size of this man’s head. Should have learned by now that it’s always bigger than I could possibly imagine.

Honestly, considering the people on it, appearing on this list would be an embarrassment.

Laurel Hubbard? Really?

 

[AfghanBlue]

View attachment 2745417

I was confused when I saw this. What kind of reply is “rekt lmao”? The PinkNews article is innocuous fluff, the kind of listicle every content mill starts to churn out at this time of year…

Then I realized.

1. Precious Brady-Davis
2. Shon Faye
3. Quinn
4. Laurel Hubbard
5. Tashnuva Anan Shishir
6. Leyna Bloom
7. Tylan Grant
8. Rachel Levine
9. Elliot Page
10. MJ Rodriguez

He’s rekt because he isn’t on the list. As if he has a shot at lists like this! As if his absence is significant enough to note, as if Princess Philosopher Abigail Thorn would sit naturally among professional actors and athletes and a bestselling writer and a Sports Illustrated cover model. The joke aims for self-effacing, but the arrogance of the premise blows me away.

I don’t know why I continue to be surprised by the size of this man’s head. Should have learned by now that it’s always bigger than I could possibly imagine.

Man, I watched the last half to the end of his Trauma video- as it was when i fully completely went off him, and theres so much odd in it- the moment that I initially noticed back then, was the bit where he starts doing his weird hysterical voice thing when he talks abut his Gf hitting him once, and as the camera pans away from him after that across his studio, you see two big computers either side of a desk and they've got huge pictures of him from his videos on them as the screen-savers.

Then, the very last line of the film, as this is delivered with huge weight, is...

"I understand how you feel"
That's it. Nothing about you, or how you might move forward, or anything at all more than you are gifted the golden sliver of a moment of reflection in Me.

Thats what the whole bullshit boils down to. There's also some bits where he talks about how people email all the time to say his cosmonaut video "saved their life" like bro.
Its insane how every single tweet he does is me me me.
Like even his ones about the cat, lol, its all about how much the cat loves him, follows him, wants strokes from him, attention form him; the amount he says Me, and every focus of every facet of things he talks about is himself..


It may be that he did have an abusive bitch of a gf.

A lot of the video is about how he disallowed himself any needs, and his therapist drew it to his attention.
Maybe he took the 'self focus, my needs' thing to the Nth degree following such- that if anything he has to say can be believed anyway and he didn't make it all up or the situation was reversed. I'm not saying this cause he's a man by the way, or that a bigger, stronger man cant be horribly abused by a partner much smaller than them- they absolutely can and are; its because its him personally and everything he does feels like a lie.

@AssignedEva lets see if he dares go for Joan's most famous trademark

short hair? la femme? impossiblé!

@fax machine @narcissistic injury i rly want my horse pic on /tttt/ but 4chan is blocking my IPs region. help a sister out?

Huh, just thinking about how wild it is that the above shotted video of him in pure man mode, was like, 5 months away from A big fail's grand unveiling

 

[narcissistic injury]

A vid I’d never watched b4

Why Do I Hate My Self? | Philosophy Tube ★

Self-hatred, anxiety, and internalised oppression can tell us a lot about the philosophy of mind... Have you been hearing voices?Patreon: http://www.patreon....

youtu.be