Global Depression 2022 - Time to do the Breadline Boogaloo!

[Account]

I disagree with this. Gold has inherent value as a precious metal used in virtually all modern technology.

This is a really weird misconception about gold that I see all the time.
Simply put, you don't want a currency with utility. If you can use a currency for some tangible benefit (like eating) then people are going to use it for that instead of for trade. Gold is stable, scarce, and sub-dividable so it works really well as a currency, and since it does nothing else no one has an incentive to use it as anything but currency (sans jewellery and technological applications, but most people don't use gold for that).

 

[Considered HARMful]

This is a really weird misconception about gold that I see all the time.
Simply put, you don't want a currency with utility.

Both things can be true at the same time. Gold is very useful in electronics industry, but nobody owns an electronics fab to manufacture connectors of it.

 

[Voltekka]

They stop accepting beef imports from Brazil. Brazil can't move the meat locally due to market glut. Brazil can't import the meat into the US because of FDA standards. At the same time China has cut off UK and Ireland from importing beef to them, which means the Brazilian beef can't go into these markets either (because they are glutted with local supply). If the Brazilians unload their beef locally they'll get almost nothing for it because South Americans are collectively fairly poor. They also can't feed the cattle indefinitely, so this could push them to cull their herds and declare bankruptcy. Once bankrupt the Chinese can buy their land for pennies. If the Brazilians starve then the Chinese air-drop them some rice and now have acres of fertile farmland and grateful serfs to farm it for them (and they get double-paid for this by leasing the farmland to the serfs).

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Farmers in Brazil sell their local meat for a high price as a result of most meat being sold to the Chinese for cheap. If they stop buying our meat, the farmers are forced to reduce the prices as a result. Brazil isn't poor in food, we can feed 1 billion people.

China doing the embargo does more good for the Brazillian than harm. Meat will get cheaper around here as a result.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

You think this is the beginning of that Great Reset people wonder about, not brought about in some sinister way but because post-modern society is naturally breaking down because it's grown too large for individual pieces to be maintained properly?
Hmm. Stock up on beans and ammo and have a fallback rendezvous point with clean drinkable water like a river away from society. Be prepared.

It's both, actually. The collapse has been deliberately engineered by ridiculously wealthy and powerful people who are surrounded 24/7 by greedy sycophants who will absolutely never tell them that they are full of shit, and as a result they are so high on their own farts that they think that they can just power down and then bring back up under their control a system that was already slowly failing due to being complex beyond individual comprehension. These vile shitbags have already delivered the death knell of modern civilization, they are just too stupid to realize it and too arrogant to let go of control even if they did because they are just so sure that they are the only ones who have any chance at all of fixing things.

The only hope of surviving is to try and transition to generating your own food and essentials as quickly as possible, get out and stay out of the failing system and it's dangerous insanity, partner with like-minded people and form a solid community, and realize that everyone dies and you need to use your remaining time to get right with Jesus Christ. You'll probably end up martyred, but in the end you'll end up with the only life worth anything: eternal life in a world without scumbags always ruining everything. Plus you can at least die with meaning, dignity, and hope for a better future instead of on your knees chanting insipid slogans for your tranny Satanist Communist pedophile masters.

 

[contradiction of terns]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Farmers in Brazil sell their local meat for a high price as a result of most meat being sold to the Chinese for cheap. If they stop buying our meat, the farmers are forced to reduce the prices as a result. Brazil isn't poor in food, we can feed 1 billion people.

China doing the embargo does more good for the Brazillian than harm. Meat will get cheaper around here as a result.

I feel like there's been a misunderstanding, so I'm going to re-state my premise, because there's a question you might be able to answer.

The Chinese have placed an embargo on Brazil because they claim there is an outbreak of Mad Cow Disease in Brazil. The United States is preparing to place an embargo on Brazil citing Mad Cow Disease in Brazilian cows. Soy Bean producers in the United States have been trying to land-grab Brazilian farmland. China has also placed an embargo on the UK and Ireland for Mad Cow Disease, but I have not seen anything to indicate that the United States has plans to place an embargo on beef from the UK or Ireland, so this leads me to wonder if the United States and China aren't working together to declare Brazilian cows are diseased when they aren't.

If you can tell me whether there is a Mad Cow Disease outbreak in your country or not, that would be great.

To address everything else, I was not saying Brazil is food poor. I said South Americans are collectively fairly poor in order to point out that a Brazilian farmer will not get rich selling their cows in Venezuela. If this is untrue, let me know, please.

Finally, I agree. Cheap beef is good if you are buying it at market to have for your dinner. I mean, I wouldn't want to buy a bunch of cheap beef if my country were having a Mad Cow Disease outbreak, but that's me.

My point was that cheap beef is bad for farmers, since they get less money and may not be able to cover their costs. Unless there's something you know about Brazilian beef farming that I don't, this should be true. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.

 

[Kujo Jotaro]

I feel like there's been a misunderstanding, so I'm going to re-state my premise, because there's a question you might be able to answer.

The Chinese have placed an embargo on Brazil because they claim there is an outbreak of Mad Cow Disease in Brazil. The United States is preparing to place an embargo on Brazil citing Mad Cow Disease in Brazilian cows. Soy Bean producers in the United States have been trying to land-grab Brazilian farmland. Now, I have not seen anything to indicate that the United States has plans to place an embargo on beef from the UK or Ireland, so this leads me to wonder if the United States and China aren't working together to declare Brazilian cows are diseased when they aren't.

If you can tell me whether there is a Mad Cow Disease outbreak in your country or not, that would be great.

To address everything else, I was not saying Brazil is food poor. I said South Americans are collectively fairly poor in order to point out that a Brazilian farmer will not get rich selling their cows in Venezuela. If this is untrue, let me know, please.

Finally, I agree. Cheap beef is good if you are buying it at market to have for your dinner. I mean, I wouldn't want to buy a bunch of cheap beef if my country were having a Mad Cow Disease outbreak, but that's me.

My point was that cheap beef is bad for farmers, since they get less money and may not be able to cover their costs. Unless there's something you know about Brazilian beef farming that I don't, this should be true. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.

Curious, is there any reason Brazilian beef farmers couldn't enter into a different market? You've indicated that they have no chance of selling in the US because of FDA standards, but what's stopping them from selling to other markets in their own region or even abroad, barring any other regulatory standards in foreign countries the biggest obstacle I could foresee would be shipping logistics if there was not already a regular direct exchange of commerce between the two nations( ironic for the thread, and easier said than done I know).

 

[contradiction of terns]

Curious, is there any reason Brazilian beef farmers couldn't enter into a different market? You've indicated that they have no chance of selling in the US because of FDA standards, but what's stopping them from selling to other markets in their own region or even abroad, barring any other regulatory standards in foreign countries the biggest obstacle I could foresee would be shipping logistics if there was not already a regular direct exchange of commerce between the two nations( ironic for the thread, and easier said than done I know).

If there's genuinely a Mad Cow Disease outbreak no one will want it and the point is moot, but I'll run with my scenario.

I think this is part of why China has cut off the UK and Ireland as well. If the US decides to embargo them as well, I'll probably adjust that section of the OP, because it's primarily speculation and I'm trying to get to the bottom of what's going on.

From what @Voltekka was saying it sounds like beef is selling more cheaply, which would imply market glut in Brazil at the least. Wiki talks about South American poverty; my premise is that the beef will sell in the rest of South America for roughly what it's selling for in Brazil (or possibly a little less) because Brazil does better economically than a lot of the countries surrounding it.

China putting an embargo on the UK and Ireland should mean that Europe is glutted with beef that would normally be sold to China, and if European markets are depressed (or there's really a Mad Cow outbreak) then they aren't going to take Brazil's extra beef.

That leaves Africa (super poor), India (don't eat beef), Japan (I think largely farms their own), Russia (largely farms their own), and Australia, which I admit I don't know much about. I'm not going to give an autistic break down of every country, but I think I've covered most of the big ones.

TL;DR - The places that would take it no questions asked are poor and the places that would pay handsomely will ask questions.

 

[Kujo Jotaro]

If there's genuinely a Mad Cow Disease outbreak no one will want it and the point is moot, but I'll run with my scenario.

I think this is part of why China has cut off the UK and Ireland as well. If the US decides to embargo them as well, I'll probably adjust that section of the OP, because it's primarily speculation and I'm trying to get to the bottom of what's going on.

From what @Voltekka was saying it sounds like beef is selling more cheaply, which would imply market glut in Brazil at the least. Wiki talks about South American poverty; my premise is that the beef will sell in the rest of South America for roughly what it's selling for in Brazil (or possibly a little less) because Brazil does better economically than a lot of the countries surrounding it.

China putting an embargo on the UK and Ireland should mean that Europe is glutted with beef that would normally be sold to China, and if European markets are depressed (or there's really a Mad Cow outbreak) then they aren't going to take Brazil's extra beef.

That leaves Africa (super poor), India (don't eat beef), Japan (I think largely farms their own), Russia (largely farms their own), and Australia, which I admit I don't know much about.

TL;DR - The places that would take it no questions asked are poor and the places that would pay handsomely will ask questions.

What about the rest of south east asia? From what I understand beef isn't a staple in any asian diet, but do they have objections to it on par with india, and or do you think places like Vietnam and Thailand are too poor to attract interest from Brazilian beef sellers?

 

[contradiction of terns]

What about the rest of south east asia? From what I understand beef isn't a staple in any asian diet, but do they have objections to it on par with india, and or do you think places like Vietnam and Thailand are too poor to attract interest from Brazilian beef sellers?

If you want to play the 'Who's too poor to take the beef' game try this website. It compares economic stats between countries.

Vietnam produces their own beef and also imports from Russia.

The main meat suppliers of Vietnam are Russia, the US, India, the Netherlands and Poland. Russia is the largest supplier of meat and meat products to Vietnam after the first 5 months of this year with 45,750 tons, worth 97.49 million USD, up 493.2% in volume and 437.5% in value compared with the same period last year.

Thailand imports from the US, Australia, and New Zealand. Go Kiwis!

Edited because I'm r-slurred.

Also, for additional info; Russia used to import Brazilian beef, but is taking 43% less this year. This is due to them getting more from Ukraine and also trying to become self-sufficient in beef like they are in pork and chicken. Australia does not import Brazilian beef. Here is a list of who they do business with.

2019 stats for top importers of Brazilian beef. China and the European Union can be crossed off this list. Russia's imports are down 43%. Egypt is probably still importing beef, but might stop if they are convinced the cows are diseased. This talks about where Chile's beef comes from. They import the most from Paraguay with Brazil coming in second place.

 

[Overly Serious]

@Overly Serious
A funny joke about GDP: Two economists walk in a field, one says to the other "I'll pay you 1M$ to eat this cow dung". The other one agrees and eats it. They continue walking and then the second one says to the first "I'll pay you 1M$ to eat this cow dung" and he agrees and eats it. They continue walking, then one says to the other: "Don't you think it was pointless when none of us got any money and both of us have the taste of shit into our mouths" and the other replies "But we just increases our country's GPD by 2M$!".

That's a pretty funny joke. I lol'd. Then I thought about it perhaps in more depth than I should. An economist would observe that the joke is flawed because neither of the characters in the joke are paying for something they consider worth what they're paying for it. I mean, maybe it's funny to watch someone eat cow dung but leave that aside - their actions here are to increase GDP, not to get something of value for their money. GDP isn't without value as an indicator of economic health. But it starts to fail, like many things do, when the goal becomes to influence the measurement rather than the thing it's measuring. And governments are focusing on GDP as a number rather than on the economy and there are many ways to manipulate GDP that aren't beneficial. The other conceit of GDP is that it's a universal good. It is not. As seen with rent and house increases, an increase in GDP can be at the cost of people in the country measured. It's based on the idea of Trickle Down wealth. And again, Trickle Down is not without value as a theory - but starts to get very wonky when high immigration means it's trickling down to people other than those who contributed in the first place.

 

[In Memoriam]

Hey minor sperg but most meat and poultry in the USA is not FDA regulated - not even imports - USDA regulates that. Still stands that Brazil can’t meet standards and no inspectors - they’re relaxing standards so if SHTF and you need a job you could be a slaughterhouse inspector! (Don’t do that, it’s gross)

All sperging aside, thanks for this thread, very informative. If you have any questions about food safety regulation in the USA, I’m your autist.

 

[Male Idiot]

Did some readerino, seems like our agricultural imports are mostly luxury goods, and less than exports.

US exports bull jizz, craft beer and pet food, for example.

So I think foodwise we are ok, even though it is industrial or not fancy.

But again I expect that there won't be mad maxing, at worst we'll get a warlord.

An interesting note, grey cattle and mangalica whooly pigs are very resilient and sturdier to raise. The cows' meat is leaner and healthier, but they produce less than regular types, and less milk too.
The pigs are however very fatty, but slower growing, very tasty and are resilient too.

But if you want a herd of doomprepped cattle or swine, look it up. Grey cows are also uneffected by mad cow disease as the prions don't work on them. No need for hormones which may become scarce, disease resistant and easy to pasture.

 

[Niggernerd]

I better stock up on cat and turtle supplies then.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Uh oh

 

[contradiction of terns]

Hey minor sperg but most meat and poultry in the USA is not FDA regulated - not even imports - USDA regulates that. Still stands that Brazil can’t meet standards and no inspectors - they’re relaxing standards so if SHTF and you need a job you could be a slaughterhouse inspector! (Don’t do that, it’s gross)

All sperging aside, thanks for this thread, very informative. If you have any questions about food safety regulation in the USA, I’m your autist.

I confuse the regulatory alphabet soup agencies all the time, so the odds I mixed up the FDA and USDA are like... 98,5%.

Someone I was discussing this with said Australia and Japan have some of the highest quality standards for beef. Do you know anything about this?

I'm not on the regulatory side. I do small time/sustainable poultry farming and have family that do cattle, goat, and fish farming, so it's very cool to have someone who can speak to the end point of the animals. I'm way more familiar with the starting point.

Did some readerino, seems like our agricultural imports are mostly luxury goods, and less than exports.

US exports bull jizz, craft beer and pet food, for example.

So I think foodwise we are ok, even though it is industrial or not fancy.

But again I expect that there won't be mad maxing, at worst we'll get a warlord.

An interesting note, grey cattle and mangalica whooly pigs are very resilient and sturdier to raise. The cows' meat is leaner and healthier, but they produce less than regular types, and less milk too.
The pigs are however very fatty, but slower growing, very tasty and are resilient too.

But if you want a herd of doomprepped cattle or swine, look it up. Grey cows are also uneffected by mad cow disease as the prions don't work on them. No need for hormones which may become scarce, disease resistant and easy to pasture.

Can you provide some links or extra information for these grey cows? I went and looked into it and was only able to find some stuff from 2007 about the genetic modification and cloning of Mad Cow Disease resistant cows. I'd love more information on this!

Uh oh

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[Hypnomouse]

If you can tell me whether there is a Mad Cow Disease outbreak in your country or not, that would be great.

From my personal experience with Brazilian cows, yes. Yes they are fucking mad:

 

[Voltekka]

I feel like there's been a misunderstanding, so I'm going to re-state my premise, because there's a question you might be able to answer.

The Chinese have placed an embargo on Brazil because they claim there is an outbreak of Mad Cow Disease in Brazil. The United States is preparing to place an embargo on Brazil citing Mad Cow Disease in Brazilian cows. Soy Bean producers in the United States have been trying to land-grab Brazilian farmland. China has also placed an embargo on the UK and Ireland for Mad Cow Disease, but I have not seen anything to indicate that the United States has plans to place an embargo on beef from the UK or Ireland, so this leads me to wonder if the United States and China aren't working together to declare Brazilian cows are diseased when they aren't.

If you can tell me whether there is a Mad Cow Disease outbreak in your country or not, that would be great.

To address everything else, I was not saying Brazil is food poor. I said South Americans are collectively fairly poor in order to point out that a Brazilian farmer will not get rich selling their cows in Venezuela. If this is untrue, let me know, please.

Finally, I agree. Cheap beef is good if you are buying it at market to have for your dinner. I mean, I wouldn't want to buy a bunch of cheap beef if my country were having a Mad Cow Disease outbreak, but that's me.

My point was that cheap beef is bad for farmers, since they get less money and may not be able to cover their costs. Unless there's something you know about Brazilian beef farming that I don't, this should be true. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.

Mad Cow Disease does happen on cows all the time. The problem lies on feeding cattle with the diseased cow, something that happened on the UK some decades ago. Besides, it won'

 

[Voltekka]

Mad Cow Disease does happen on cows all the time. The problem lies on feeding cattle with the diseased cow, something that happened on the UK some decades ago. Besides, it won'

It won't matter. Our food is safe at the moment. Farmers have lots of meat and soy, and as long as this equilibrium exists, we won't go into a famine.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

will precious metal protect me? like i take some percentage of my meger zoomer savings and get into silver and gold for a backstop for the collapse?

 

[contradiction of terns]

It won't matter. Our food is safe at the moment. Farmers have lots of meat and soy, and as long as this equilibrium exists, we won't go into a famine.

I feel like English isn't your first language, so I'm going to try one last time.

I'm not saying Brazil will experience a famine. I'm saying the Chinese want to steal your farmland.

I'm also not the only one who thinks the Mad Cow Disease claims are bogus.

Source Archive

Some analysts speculate that the beef suspension, now in its third month, is a Beijing strategy to lower Brazilian prices which were rapidly climbing. Secex has somehow confirmed the intention since protein prices remain 21,7% above last year, and a ton of beef reached US$ 5,166 in October.

Meantime the price of fat cattle in the Brazilian market since the suspension started has fallen almost 15%.
Other analysts speculate the situation could be the result of the launching of the bidding process this week for Brazil's 5G network which is expected to reach some nine billion dollars.

A long dispute with the United States over allegations that the Huawei 5G network is part of a Chinese global spying ring, led to many US allies to drop the Chinese option. Brazil under pressure from the US opted for two networks, a general one open to all society and consumers, and a second exclusive and restricted to government and links with congress, armed forces, state and city governments.

China can compete for the neutral 5G net but is banned from doing so with the more specific referred to government and its structure.

They found 'atypical' Mad Cow Disease in a 17 year old cow. The only people who have a 17 year old cow are people keeping it as a beloved family pet. Meat cattle are slaughtered at 3 years old. Diary cattle are often slaughtered at 5 years. A 17 year old cow should have been glue a decade ago.

Source Archive

According to the Brazilian Association of Meatpackers, China’s suspension of Brazilian beef imports after two atypical cases of mad cow disease in Brazil in September resulted in the country’s beef export revenue dropping 31% year-on-year in October, The Brazilian Report reported. China is the main buyer of Brazilian beef.

I don't know about Brazilian farmers, but I couldn't afford to keep my animals if I was making 31% less money than I do now.