Spoonies/dramatic teens and munch aside, a lot of people seeking a super trendy diagnosis have a lot of anxiety. There's just no reassuring them and I bet that's gotta be so damn frustrating from the perspective of the health people here.
There was a whole thing in the 2000s where we'd talk about FFFs. Fat, female and over forty. Like something just clicked in their brains and suddenly they'd became a professional patient and were looking for a fibro diagnosis.
Now it seems like it's happening to younger women, and I'm not particularly sure what's going on. I wish there was some field that legitimately studied this.
IMO, being a girl/woman isn't a very appetising proposition at the moment, so this kind of behaviour is a way of opting out of societal demands. The 'FFF' thing, I think, was women who've aged and fattened out of low-effort options for receiving praise and attention and become invisible. Younger women are seeing the ever increasing demands placed on them and the not-great destination and, perhaps understandably, would rather get a sick note. Then everything they do is inspirational and brave cuz cundishon.
I think troonerism in teenage girls is another facet of this 'opt out' phenomenon. It really should be studied.
IMO, being a girl/woman isn't a very appetising proposition at the moment, so this kind of behaviour is a way of opting out of societal demands. The 'FFF' thing, I think, was women who've aged and fattened out of low-effort options for receiving praise and attention and become invisible. Younger women are seeing the ever increasing demands placed on them and the not-great destination and, perhaps understandably, would rather get a sick note. Then everything they do is inspirational and brave cuz cundishon.
I think troonerism in teenage girls is another facet of this 'opt out' phenomenon. It really should be studied.
I think you're right about girls, but I don''t think the older women are all about attention. At a physiologically low level - metabolism, energry output, recovery, etc women and men have significant differences. Expecting women to be able to maintain the productivity of men long term wears a lot of women down. Especially post 40. That's before you add the biological role women have to fill on top of societal. Equitable and equality aren't always the same thing. I can't blame young girls for rejecting their gender identity in high school - if you're going to put the expectations of achieving the same things as a man+being a woman on someone, why not just shitcan the woman part.
I do appreciate the go big or go home nature of the tic/seizure fakers. The tic fakers could clear their throat, nod their head to the side a lot. The seizure fakers could just drop things, talk in circles and say they smelt smoke, etc. Instead we get a grand performance.
IMO, being a girl/woman isn't a very appetising proposition at the moment, so this kind of behaviour is a way of opting out of societal demands. The 'FFF' thing, I think, was women who've aged and fattened out of low-effort options for receiving praise and attention and become invisible. Younger women are seeing the ever increasing demands placed on them and the not-great destination and, perhaps understandably, would rather get a sick note. Then everything they do is inspirational and brave cuz cundishon.
I think troonerism in teenage girls is another facet of this 'opt out' phenomenon. It really should be studied.
I think that the desire to opt out of womanhood may contribute to the current Instagram chronic illness trend, but there's something else there.
Until the late 80s/early 90s in the US, there weren't any requirements for women to be included in biomedical research studies or clinical trials. There's so much we don't know about women's health. The situation is worsened by physicians who are dismissive of women who have legitimate health concerns.
I think that most insta spoonies and FFFs experienced real symptoms. Unfortunately, many of the vague symptoms of conditions that women are more susceptible to, like autoimmune disorders, can look like depression or anxiety. Others may have been experiencing symptoms of somatoform disorders. I imagine there is a subset of women who get tired of feeling like they're not being taken seriously, get desperate, and look for alternative ways to get treatment for their symptoms and/or validation from medical providers.
I think that most insta spoonies and FFFs experienced real symptoms. Unfortunately, many of the vague symptoms of conditions that women are more susceptible to, like autoimmune disorders, can look like depression or anxiety. Others may have been experiencing symptoms of somatoform disorders. I imagine there is a subset of women who get tired of feeling like they're not being taken seriously, get desperate, and look for alternative ways to get treatment for their symptoms and/or validation from medical providers.
Somatoform disorders are generally not taken seriously by either patients or providers, which is a shame.
I do seriously think a lot of it stems from depression and anxiety though, assuming we're talking about the CFS/Fibro/CRPS catchall of diagnoses of exclusion. People don't really seem to understand that depression and anxiety can also have physical symptoms as well. If you tell that to a patient you'd get the "oh you're not taking me seriously you think it's just all in my head" lecture.
Somatoform disorders are generally not taken seriously by either patients or providers, which is a shame.
I do seriously think a lot of it stems from depression and anxiety though, assuming we're talking about the CFS/Fibro/CRPS catchall of diagnoses of exclusion. People don't really seem to understand that depression and anxiety can also have physical symptoms as well. If you tell that to a patient you'd get the "oh you're not taking me seriously you think it's just all in my head" lecture.
Depression/anxiety is often as vague and unhelpful a diagnosis as CFS/Fibro/CRPS. At best the complete lack of objective biomarkers and truly targeted treatments gives someone another avenue to pursue with no guarantee of relief, and at worst it's a dumping ground for difficult patients.
Reality is that if you took most of these people and put them on a beach for four weeks with all expenses paid and good company they'd feel a lot better afterwards. Why medicalize it. Tell them their life sucks and they'll feel this way until things change or they take something to numb it.
I know a pyschiatrist that works for a CMHS. She wishes she could write scripts for benzos/stims for the patients to sell because it would help their mental health more than anything she can do in 10 minute med management session.
Read a book by a doctor a while back where he described 'shit life syndrome' and the very real physical symptoms resulting from same he observed in his patients (many meeting FFF criteria)
Maybe we just need to be more honest about the effects of ageing. If you haven't lived an optimal life health-wise, you're going to be feeling it in your 40s.
Depression/anxiety is often as vague and unhelpful a diagnosis as CFS/Fibro/CRPS. At best the complete lack of objective biomarkers and truly targeted treatments gives someone another avenue to pursue with no guarantee of relief, and at worst it's a dumping ground for difficult patients.
Reality is that if you took most of these people and put them on a beach for four weeks with all expenses paid and good company they'd feel a lot better afterwards. Why medicalize it. Tell them their life sucks and they'll feel this way until things change or they take something to numb it.
I know a pyschiatrist that works for a CMHS. She wishes she could write scripts for benzos/stims for the patients to sell because it would help their mental health more than anything she can do in 10 minute med management session.
I ran across this article the other day. It seems like it is moving in the direction you are talking about, clinical results for depression and then pinpointing the most effective drug for it.
First I'm not a doctor, and I've got no medical training. Ex was a phd/researcher. The NIH announced a few years back that they'd only be funding biomarkers based research. As far as targeted treatments, they've got genetic tests for the ability to metabolize a drug. Almost all current non-fun drugs (SSRIs, SNRIs, Atypicals, Antihistamines) don't do much different than drugs from the 60s/70s. Long term NIMH research has pretty consistently shown newer drugs don't have efficacy to justify their pricing (it's all marketing). If you dig into atypical antipsychotics (CATIE, etc), you find one of the biggest grifts in modern history. Worse, if two in a class don't work for someone, none of them seem to.
It's a shame the FFF can't just try modafinil for the workweek after everything else is ruled out, Ketamine trips for a quick fix to life ruining depression.
It's funny watching the sickstagram start to spread to psychotic disorders. Not saying this woman is a faker:
She was very pretty, but most of her comments told her she was really consistently well put together for having schizophrenia. Then she shaved her head and stopped using makeup.
But passing off SZA as SZ puts up a flag for me. It's different - SZ has a chronic course. Starting to see people asking on schizophrenia support groups what their "diagnosis journey was like". The people asking have never seen what an ugly disease it is, so they don't know the "diagnosis journey" is usually pretty ugly and life ruining.
Edit: also her flat affect.... lol.
Edit Edit: It's important that there are actual doctors in this thread that worked their asses off to become doctors. If they say I'm wrong, they're right by default.
This one seems spectacularly crazy. Self harmed in front of staff when told they were going to be discharged? And what's up with those super angry red stretch marks in the fifth picture? That only happens if the weight gain is dramatic and fast.
Sometimes the stretch marks like those can be linked to high dose steroid use as well....
But yes, definitely the weight gain! She doesn't even remotely look like the same person anymore! I wonder what happened that made her decide to go munch in such a negative way.
It's gonna be dang hard to bounce back from... what a mess...
Regarding the health anxiety > diagnosis of exclusion pipeline, the subreddits for the kind of illnesses/disorders you might refer to such as CFS, interstitial cystitis, or fibromyalgia (and others) are absolutely STUFFED full of these neurotic women refusing to even entertain the idea that they could be worsening their own condition. They will go on extreme elimination diets, take medication with severe side effects, endure nurse-visit procedures that would give you nightmares all while outright refusing to see a therapist and taking offense at the suggestion because it iNvAlIdAtEs them. I don’t think that’s the same as munchausens although it can be in effect self-induced illness.
Here’s one example of what I mean. This one is super over the top and I chose it to clearly illustrate my point.
I’m not a FFF but I am prone to health anxiety and I will always be grateful to the based doctor I saw who drew back the curtain on how much anxiety can in effect be internalized by the body resulting in symptoms of CFS, IC, fibromyalgia, pelvic floor dysfunction, IBS, and others. So much of the online advice for conditions like those is being given by neurotic dysfunctional women and really only serves to distract from any chance at real, measurable improvement or abatement of symptoms. These people make each other worse.
Some people really are sick, but a fair amount just need their heads shrunk. Too bad most people take that personally instead of realizing what a GIFT it is, an unexpected second chance, to be able to get therapy and reduce or eliminate debilitating physical conditions. I don’t wanna PL all over this thread, I just wanted to include this because the discussion touched on it. MedKiwis, I want to thank you for all you do and offer one story of someone actually listening when one of you said “You’re engaging in a negative feedback loop with your own body and would benefit from help in getting out of that loop.” “You mean I’m just overly anxious and not actually sick forever? Fuckin SWEET!”
There’s apparently a book, Explain Pain (David Butler), that touches on the interplay between mental state and chronic pain although I haven’t read it so I can’t vouch for its quality.
Regarding the health anxiety > diagnosis of exclusion pipeline, the subreddits for the kind of illnesses/disorders you might refer to such as CFS, interstitial cystitis, or fibromyalgia (and others) are absolutely STUFFED full of these neurotic women refusing to even entertain the idea that they could be worsening their own condition. They will go on extreme elimination diets, take medication with severe side effects, endure nurse-visit procedures that would give you nightmares all while outright refusing to see a therapist and taking offense at the suggestion because it iNvAlIdAtEs them. I don’t think that’s the same as munchausens although it can be in effect self-induced illness.
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Here’s one example of what I mean. This one is super over the top and I chose it to clearly illustrate my point.
I’m not a FFF but I am prone to health anxiety and I will always be grateful to the based doctor I saw who drew back the curtain on how much anxiety can in effect be internalized by the body resulting in symptoms of CFS, IC, fibromyalgia, pelvic floor dysfunction, IBS, and others. So much of the online advice for conditions like those is being given by neurotic dysfunctional women and really only serves to distract from any chance at real, measurable improvement or abatement of symptoms. These people make each other worse.
Some people really are sick, but a fair amount just need their heads shrunk. Too bad most people take that personally instead of realizing what a GIFT it is, an unexpected second chance, to be able to get therapy and reduce or eliminate debilitating physical conditions. I don’t wanna PL all over this thread, I just wanted to include this because the discussion touched on it. MedKiwis, I want to thank you for all you do and offer one story of someone actually listening when one of you said “You’re engaging in a negative feedback loop with your own body and would benefit from help in getting out of that loop.” “You mean I’m just overly anxious and not actually sick forever? Fuckin SWEET!”
There’s apparently a book, Explain Pain (David Butler), that touches on the interplay between mental state and chronic pain although I haven’t read it so I can’t vouch for its quality.
What these young adult to early middle age people don't realize is that being an adult human involves random aches and pains, and it's extremely unusual for people of any age to be completely pain free and full of energy all the time.
Chronic painkiller use, even tylenol, has a rrebound effect making you even more sensitive to pain. Take it for a fever, or for an injury right after the fact, but don't let it drag on.
Life sucks. That's normal. Nobody should expect to be perfectly healthy and pain free, and save the screaming for when you're actually in danger.
What these young adult to early middle age people don't realize is that being an adult human involves random aches and pains, and it's extremely unusual for people of any age to be completely pain free and full of energy all the time.
Chronic painkiller use, even tylenol, has a rrebound effect making you even more sensitive to pain. Take it for a fever, or for an injury right after the fact, but don't let it drag on.
Life sucks. That's normal. Nobody should expect to be perfectly healthy and pain free, and save the screaming for when you're actually in danger.
I think doctors really need to stress the point about exercise. It makes sense that people think exercise = more pain = more fatigue on a basic level, so they avoid it. Theres also the "I'm special so it won't work for me" or "that one time I ran in high school I felt horrible" people, but I do see some rationality in those that think its being recommended as simple muscular/cardiovascular improvement. Doctors never really hammer home the effects that seem counterintuitive but are very real, like pain and fatigue reduction.
All it takes to substantially improve your fitness is brisk walking to the point your out of breath and basic, non murderous, well rounded calisthenics/resistance bands to ensure you don't have weak points from the lack of variety in the work most of us do. A lot of people confuse the difference between "get in shape" and "don't be sedentary".
Since all the munches seem to have had a miraculous respite in time to enjoy Christmas, gonna share a reddit post as to why hEDS helps munches be so successful.
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I'm 29F and I can't cope with my symptoms anymore. This has been going on for 15 years since I was 14. Constant pain from head to toe that never goes away. I've been a social recluse for the last 6 years, avoiding almost all social interaction and public places because my symptoms make it impossible.
At the moment I'm on crutches after recovering from a bilateral femur osteotomy that I had to have because of alignment issues with my legs, and the recovery is taking fucking ages. its been 6 months on crutches. This is exacerbating my pain and mentally I can't take the lack of mobility anymore.
The other week I went out for the work's christmas do and it was hell. It completely highlighted to me how useless I am as a human being because I just cannot function in social situations. I was exhausted and aching from head to toe before I even arrived but I went anyway. I'd be like this at the best of times but add crutches into the mix and its beyond a joke. I sat at the table with my colleagues (who I hardly ever see because I'm one of the few to work from home full time) and rather than socialising like a normal person, all I could think about was how much everything hurts. The deep, intense ache I get is a 9 on the pain scale, soooo bad that I can't think about anything else, yet there I was sat there with a smile on my face trying to force myself to have a good time. If anyone knew how I actually felt in that moment they would be blown away. But sitting there with a smile on my face is the most I can do literally.... I can't have a conversation because it takes too much mental energy, so when other people were trying to talk to me I could barely summon up the energy to think of an interesting thing to say in response. I'm half deaf too due to complications I had with my ear when I was a child. So with the loud music I couldn't hear much of the conversation at all which made it even harder. I kept having to say "what" and sometimes it got so awkward after the third time of asking that they just gave up.
the above is a typical social event for me, this happens everytime I try to force myself to go out which is why I avoid it. The huge problem is the desperate loneliness that this causes. how am i supposed to make friends like this? how am I supposed to get into a relationship? I live alone and I'm single and I spend 99.9% of my time completely isolated. Either working or watching TV or doing absolutely nothing. I want to meet someone so badly but who would take the time to get to know me like this???
The pain, exhaustion and associated depression completely dampens my personality, makes me a boring, pointless person so how am I supposed to show who I really am to anybody??? I tried online dating recently and there was this one guy who was interested. we facetimed and he seemed to want to meet up, but as soon as I brought up that i'm on crutches at the moment he ghosted. I don't even think it was the crutches, I think it was because it was clear I have health issues that made him fuck off. I get ghosted a lot but why wouldn't i, im a depressing person to be around.
I've had 6 major surgeries in 3 years. SIX. Including scoliosis surgery. One of them was supposed to fix my hearing but the surgery failed. The pain I've been through has been like nothing I could ever describe to people who aren't sick. The mental toll all these surgeries have taken on me is extreme. Even if you exclude the intensity of these last 3 years i've spent my entire young adult life being passed around different people in the medical profession, trying 15 different medications, steroid injections, botox, physio fucking everything and at the end of the day I'm NO BETTER. after EVERYTHING I've been through, after all the surgeries and treatments I am no better off as a human being. I'm still in extreme amounts of pain, so bad that regular people can't even imagine.
i'm nearly 30 and I have nothing. I had so much potential when I was younger and this illness has ruined everything I could ever be. I was intelligent and I had serious ambitions. I could've been successful but I'm not. Couldv'e been a regular functioning person in society with a relationship and maybe kids, but thats never going to happen. Im so angry that I've been burdened with this.
I have mental health issues which also exacerbates things such as body dysmorphia and other obsessive thought patterns which I torture myself with dailyy.
Why would I want to carry on living? The only reason I have to stay here is my parents and sister, i'm literally just continuing to exist for them at this point so they're not sad when I die. But it almost feels not fair? Why should I be forced to be alive with so much pain and suffering?
I've just re read the above before posting and It has not truly captured the despair I feel at the moment. I'm beside myself.
Pretty sure I know this person, they're real, and all their surgeries were recommended by non quacks b/c they have trouble walking from hip dysplasia and actual, real dislocations. When doctors see a genetic disease in someone's chart, prior to the internet this is what they were used to seeing. Not a bunch of people who claimed they had chronic dislocations, but still managed to be dancers and gymnasts. Rheums and genetecists are doing a lot better job "gatekeeping", so there are fewer people.
One of the reasons the classical type comes to the attention of doctors in puberty is gastric issues. Frequent gas, painful cramping, diarreah, and sometimes vomiting many times a month. The hEDS Tubies are piggybacking on this, and the GI docs need to hurry up and catch the fuck on that there is no reason EDS would cause someone to be unable to maintain their weight once they are under their care.
Hopeful Stripes AKA VSED girl claims the hospice company "isn't in network" but is going to keep her high, erm I mean give her all the pain meds she wants. She than is also talking about how her KAFOs (supposedly done 3 months before she "choose VSED) help her. People questioned why her insurance would pay for those if she is going on hospice and her answer is just that "when I ordered them I wasn't going to hospice".
She’s never going to do it. She’ll just put it off indefinitely to keep the drugs and the grift going. That’s the whole reason for the VSED drama in the first place. Her doc cut off her opiates and she’s throwing a tantrum like a spoiled toddler.
because that means they have to put actual effort into it.
most of these munchies are incredibly lazy and want instant gratification and to feel good,
anorexia takes time and makes you feel unhinged at the end of the day.
and it also means they have to work out and well
