A Native American Christmas Blessing

[Bloodfeast Island Man]

You know what's even more retarded? He doesn't claim he's indigenous, he claims that he's a Native American Jew from Chicago... Or some incomprehensible garbage. He's an "honorary member", but he never describes which tribe accepts him. As far as I know, there's no tribe that has that has that practice of accepting outsiders easily or freely.

It's a load of bullshit.

On a more interesting note, "Two Spirit" is new-age garbage. AFAIK, while the role of two-spirit exists in some tribes, the term has been misappropriated and bastardized by the LGBTQ. Tom makes another dubious claim that's what the natives called him, before he called himself that.

PLEASE tell me he's a Mormon. Although I have a feeling it's not that kind of Native American Jew. I don't think official Mormon undies will help though.

I thought that Two Spirit shit was like headmates/LARP Dissociative identity disorder thing.

 

[RadioactiveMonkeyMan]

PLEASE tell me he's a Mormon. Although I have a feeling it's not that kind of Native American Jew. I don't think official Mormon undies will help though.

I thought that Two Spirit shit was like headmates/LARP Dissociative identity disorder thing.

There are some historical cases of "two spirit" non-gendered people. A bit at length, but I'll try to be brief.

So, in FN cultures roles in any given village or tribe were assigned by sex. Men hunted, fished, constructed, took medicine roles, etc. Women gathered, cleaned hides and captured game, raised kids, made baskets and clothing, stuff like that. But what do you do if your son is better at making baskets than hunting deer? Well, you let him obviously. Same with if your daughter knew herbs better than she could make clothes. So they created a third culturally relevant gender to describe those who didn't fill their genders role. That's about it. Except for those who now would be considered "trans"

They were generally considered as prostitutes held on the fringes of their local society. Some, if they were actually knowledgeable and not aberrant in behavior could fill medicine (basically witch doctor) roles but that wasn't as common as the modern interpretation would like people to believe. The whole "Two Spirit medicine person" is almost entirely a modern white idea.

 

[Mellow Malevolent]

I thought that Two Spirit shit was like headmates/LARP Dissociative identity disorder thing.

Two-Spirit is a term invented in the 90's by gay Indigenous people to broadly loop together all the different gender non-conforming traditions of their cultures under a new label. It's not analogous to saying "gay" or "lesbian", but trying to build solidarity among native LGBT people to advocate for themselves. Anthropologically, you used to see the somewhat offensive term "berdache" (which basically means "rent boy", and is also used in anthropology to refer to the passive partner in male homosexual unions, which depending on the culture would be treated very differently than the active one) used to describe this third gender category that existed in a lot of different cultures under different names, and part of the Two-Spirit push was to get away from that descriptor. But really, mostly the names for them just translated to "men who act like women" or "women who act like men", and there wasn't a big distinction drawn between homosexuality and what we would call gender expression now. In some cultures they fulfilled some special spiritual roles, thought by no means all cultures in the Americas had this, and like a lot of other cultures around the world, it was a sort of a grey space these people existed in. It didn't make them magical shamans automatically, the way hippies like Tom think it does. That's actually part of the original gay hippie movement in the pacific northwest in the 70s, a big thing was adopting native regalia because it made being gay this special magical thing, if you totally misread the actual historiographic record and misinterpreted the oral histories.

Tom, because he is schizo, thinks that the two-spirit terms applies literally, and that he can claim to have a seperate male and female aspect. He then blames all his anger and negative emotions on his male half, because he thinks it absolves him. That shit is just pure schizo nonsense.

E: took too long writing and got beaten to it. but yeah, as @RadioactiveMonkeyMan said, it's basically Tom willfully misinterpreting something from Native culture, and claiming that at some point he got granted this label (that not everyone uses or accepts) by the great Indigenous Hive Mind, that also sanctions him claiming to be an Israeli priestess as grounds for being native. There's like 10 layers of bullshit to take apart.

 

[Sexy Senior Citizen]

E: took too long writing and got beaten to it. but yeah, as @RadioactiveMonkeyMan said, it's basically Tom willfully misinterpreting something from Native culture, and claiming that at some point he got granted this label (that not everyone uses or accepts) by the great Indigenous Hive Mind, that also sanctions him claiming to be an Israeli priestess as grounds for being native. There's like 10 layers of bullshit to take apart.

Why, it's almost like he's a white man appropriating the indigenous culture for his own ends!

 

[RadioactiveMonkeyMan]

Two-Spirit is a term invented in the 90's by gay Indigenous people to broadly loop together all the different gender non-conforming traditions of their cultures under a new label. It's not analogous to saying "gay" or "lesbian", but trying to build solidarity among native LGBT people to advocate for themselves. Anthropologically, you used to see the somewhat offensive term "berdache" (which basically means "rent boy", and is also used in anthropology to refer to the passive partner in male homosexual unions, which depending on the culture would be treated very differently than the active one) used to describe this third gender category that existed in a lot of different cultures under different names, and part of the Two-Spirit push was to get away from that descriptor. But really, mostly the names for them just translated to "men who act like women" or "women who act like men", and there wasn't a big distinction drawn between homosexuality and what we would call gender expression now. In some cultures they fulfilled some special spiritual roles, thought by no means all cultures in the Americas had this, and like a lot of other cultures around the world, it was a sort of a grey space these people existed in. It didn't make them magical shamans automatically, the way hippies like Tom think it does. That's actually part of the original gay hippie movement in the pacific northwest in the 70s, a big thing was adopting native regalia because it made being gay this special magical thing, if you totally misread the actual historiographic record and misinterpreted the oral histories.

Tom, because he is schizo, thinks that the two-spirit terms applies literally, and that he can claim to have a seperate male and female aspect. He then blames all his anger and negative emotions on his male half, because he thinks it absolves him. That shit is just pure schizo nonsense.

E: took too long writing and got beaten to it. but yeah, as @RadioactiveMonkeyMan said, it's basically Tom willfully misinterpreting something from Native culture, and claiming that at some point he got granted this label (that not everyone uses or accepts) by the great Indigenous Hive Mind, that also sanctions him claiming to be an Israeli priestess as grounds for being native. There's like 10 layers of bullshit to take apart.

You summarized it far more in depth than I did, so kudos. Including the fact that this isn't some kind of pan-national ideology. For instance, the Cree did have them. They were called ayahkwêw, or "one living like the other" and it was not a kind thing to be called. Basically being called a faggot or dyke. My people were the type to keep them at an arm's length.

 

[Bloodfeast Island Man]

an Israeli priestess as grounds for being native

Apologies for not knowing the full lore. The whole Jew in America thing is what made me think Mormon. Wow.

WTF is even that Israeli priestess stuff? There's so much shit in this shit sandwich. Is it even a sandwich anymore?

I'mma stfu and lurk moar.

 

[RadioactiveMonkeyMan]

Apologies for not knowing the full lore. The whole Jew in America thing is what made me think Mormon. Wow.

WTF is even that Israeli priestess stuff? There's so much shit in this shit sandwich. Is it even a sandwich anymore?

I'mma stfu and lurk moar.

Highly recommended, but no worries about stepping on toes. Tom's got a whole bunch of background and lore stretching over 20 years online and nearly 40 years through his hippy latching. There is no shit sandwich, it's pure shit all the way down.

 

[Black Simp Bellamy]

Is it even a sandwich anymore?

More like a Spyro Subway than a sandwich by this point.

 

[RazorBackBacon]

WTF is even that Israeli priestess stuff?

He's claimed to be an Israeli priestess and that this somehow makes him of one spirit with the great and noble injun. Nevermind that only very liberal sects of Judaism recognize female rabbis, or that Judaism has classically been very clear and firm on gender roles and on hating gays.

You're right in that Mormons also claim that Native Americans are Jews, but I suspect Tom would not like being associated with Mormonism, given their very strict moral codes. Especially (once again) those codes that have to do with gender and homosexuality.

You'd think he'd be more about Hellenistic philosophy since the Greeks were the ones all about gay sex being purer than straight sex and buggering young boys being a necessary part of educating the youth. I guess if you do that much peyote, you don't really stop to think about what the shit you're babbling actually means.

 

[RadioactiveMonkeyMan]

He's claimed to be an Israeli priestess and that this somehow makes him of one spirit with the great and noble injun. Nevermind that only very liberal sects of Judaism recognize female rabbis, or that Judaism has classically been very clear and firm on gender roles and on hating gays.

You're right in that Mormons also claim that Native Americans are Jews, but I suspect Tom would not like being associated with Mormonism, given their very strict moral codes. Especially (once again) those codes that have to do with gender and homosexuality.

You'd think he'd be more about Hellenistic philosophy since the Greeks were the ones all about gay sex being purer than straight sex and buggering young boys being a necessary part of educating the youth. I guess if you do that much peyote, you don't really stop to think about what the shit you're babbling actually means.

Even the Greeks would have left Tommy on the mount to die from exposure. If only for his business sense.

 

[RazorBackBacon]

Even the Greeks would have left Tommy on the mount to die from exposure. If only for his business sense.

Sadly, Greco-Roman history is rife with fuckups of truly calamitous scale who were able to blunder through life based entirely on who their daddy was. Though he is a Jew and they had to tread more carefully than others might in the lands of Greece. The Zealots left a bad taste in many people's mouths for a long time.

 

[Smicneibn]

I didn't try to fuck a 15 year old, fuck wit. I accepted an invitation to join two lesbians in bed and I really wasn't considering anybody's age in the moment.

Tommie you said you came home and saw your significant other in bed with a 15 year old runaway from an abusive household. Why would you stay with someone taking sexual advantage of a minor?

 

[RadioactiveMonkeyMan]

Tommy you said you came home and saw your significant other in bed with a 15 year old runaway from an abusive household. Why would you stay with someone taking sexual advantage of minor?

It's because he's a pedophile and it was a golden opportunity to molest a child at someone else's behest.

 

[Owlflaps]

Tom, did you know that American Indians are capable of being ethnocentric cunts? Not only are they capable of it, they're quite good at it. Where I'm from, local tribes constantly speak ill of each other. The most influential tribes here are the Choctaw and Chickasaw, both of which look down their noses at Cherokee for being "common." Both tribes are fantastically wealthy, and are constantly trying to one-up the other with their newest purchases. Elitism and venality are rampant, just as with ever other human institution. Indians are just people, romanticizing them is pointless.

Mr. Owlflaps is of Chickasaw descent. His tribe got some serious dosh. They were smart enough to build casinos to draw in the white crowds in the dry counties of Oklahoma. When the pandemic hit, the governor built 80k tiny homes to house the elderly, because he was afraid of them dying and losing the last speakers of the Chickasaw language.

Those tribes also waged wars against each other for land and owned plantations and slaves, hilariously enough. After the Louisiana Purchase, I believe the Chickasaw popularized the act of scalping. Once the Trail of Tears happened, the Choctaw and Chickasaw were so incredibly pissed at the Union that they joined the Confederacy at the start of the Civil War.

Tom likes to think that all Native Americans were peace loving people. They were having a powwow, singing songs, and smoking the peace pipe until the big bad, colonizing white man came along and enforced their tyranny on the brown people. The reality is that they were killing and waging war against each other long before those white devils came.

 

[RadioactiveMonkeyMan]

Mr. Owlflaps is of Chickasaw descent. His tribe got some serious dosh. They were smart enough to build casinos to draw in the white crowds in the dry counties of Oklahoma. When the pandemic hit, the governor built 80k tiny homes to house the elderly, because he was afraid of them dying and losing the last speakers of the Chickasaw language.

Those tribes also waged wars against each other for land and owned plantations and slaves, hilariously enough. After the Louisiana Purchase, I believe the Chickasaw popularized the act of scalping. Once the Trail of Tears happened, the Choctaw and Chickasaw were so incredibly pissed at the Union that they joined the Confederacy at the start of the Civil War.

Tom likes to think that all Native Americans were peace loving people. They were having a powwow, singing songs, and smoking the peace pipe until the big bad, colonizing white man came along and enforced their tyranny on the brown people. The reality is that they were killing and waging war against each other long before those white devils came.

At least you guys opened up the market on selling mexican scalps as injun ones. Cormack McCarthy thanks you.

 

[Owlflaps]

At least you guys opened up the market on selling mexican scalps as injun ones. Cormack McCarthy thanks you.

Blood Meridian is my favorite Cormac McCarthy book! Maybe Tom can piss off an Indian and get his nasty, greasy balding head split at the thrapple.

 

[MediocreMilt]

Mr. Owlflaps is of Chickasaw descent. His tribe got some serious dosh. They were smart enough to build casinos to draw in the white crowds in the dry counties of Oklahoma. When the pandemic hit, the governor built 80k tiny homes to house the elderly, because he was afraid of them dying and losing the last speakers of the Chickasaw language.

Those tribes also waged wars against each other for land and owned plantations and slaves, hilariously enough. After the Louisiana Purchase, I believe the Chickasaw popularized the act of scalping. Once the Trail of Tears happened, the Choctaw and Chickasaw were so incredibly pissed at the Union that they joined the Confederacy at the start of the Civil War.

Tom likes to think that all Native Americans were peace loving people. They were having a powwow, singing songs, and smoking the peace pipe until the big bad, colonizing white man came along and enforced their tyranny on the brown people. The reality is that they were killing and waging war against each other long before those white devils came.

powwow is my new favorite filter

 

[RadioactiveMonkeyMan]

Blood Meridian is my favorite Cormac McCarthy book! Maybe Tom can piss off an Indian and get his nasty, greasy balding head split at the thrapple.

The way narrowed through the rocks and by and by they came to a bush that was hung with dead babies.
They stopped side by side reeling in the heat.
These small victims, seven, eight of them had holes punched in their under jaws and were hung so by their throats from the broken stobs of mesquite to stare eyeless at the naked sky.

Honestly, Tom and Judge would get along like peaches and cream.

 

[Mellow Malevolent]

One of the things that's exhausting about people like Tom is how they poison the well for discussing anything about the history of colonization by flattening it all out into this ahistorical narrative of good versus evil. For people like Tom, it's just the same Christians being fed to Lions/Jews suffering in exile thing all over again. For all his native hippy bullshit, like a lot of westerners cosplaying other religions, Tom isn't capable of escaping the Abrahamic narratives his worldview was built on and just sort overlays his new religion overtop of it. It shows how superficial his supposed rejection of the west is, and in general reflects a poverty of intellect, where his imagination of the world is restricted to a childish good guys and bad guys dichotomy. Conveniently though, the custom religion can have a custom morality that omits all the problematic pieces he doesn't want to follow (honoring his parents, not being a pedophile, etc.), while dooming all the haters to hell or mars or whatever.


Like I said, Tom is the original Chris Chan. The tribal native stuff is just Tom's version of Chris's Sonichu church that he's formed.


Meanwhile, there's plenty to discuss, and plenty of angles to take on how colonization played out, what can help alleviate things like poverty in indigenous communities, and how to try and builds bridges between societies that now coexist. Pretending that space dragons will eat all the bullies is not one of them.

E: I also have a pet-peeve with people like Tom misusing history to argue LGBTQ politics. I don't need to pretend that gays were super special magical fairies before Christianity to justify my faggotry. It stands up on its own.

 

[AnOminous]

Honestly, Tom and Judge would get along like peaches and cream.

I don't think the Judge would have much use for an absolute weakling like Tom.