Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

I mean is it cringe to self improve in on itself, regardless of who does it? I can see how you can sneer at an incel or a mgtow who tries that but either way they try at the very least. Improving yourself I think its a positive. If you go with the "genetic shit/dead end" as anon states then you might not create a family, you might as well try. If not self improving and gaining a new skill be it language or anything else is a positive and can land you a good job with a good pay if nothing else.
 
Is it wrong to get slightly blackpilled about relationships when you've just about fucked yourself in every possible way from adolescence onward? At this point, I think I've workaholic'd my way through all the key moments you're supposed to develop flirting and relationship skills to a degree that it's completely foreign to me. My social skills aren't amazing, but I have a decent amount of friends and get along with my family and coworkers, but when it comes to meeting women, I just feel a deep apathy for anyone I meet or match with on apps. I don't really want to sympathize with the manosphere, but when you never really developed that "spark" for someone, it's so hard not to feel like you're constantly missing out on a fulfilling human experience and it gets really frustrating after awhile.

I think the broad nature of the internet can really screw with people in unintended ways because some of us end up with a general interest in a lot of things, but a dedicated interest in nothing. Instead of refining yourself and standing out in a specific way, you have to find other masters-of-none to relate to, which means your hobbies look more like a laundry list instead of a meaningful aspect of your life. You can type out that you're interested in video games, movies, TV, history, working out, etc. but unless you have enough to say on any of those topics, conversations just peter out and it's back to the grind.

This was autistic as fuck, I'm sorry. I just don't really have anywhere else to vent this sort of thing.
 
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Here’s a good question: Are you an incel if you refuse obviously bad relationship partners or an arranged marriage setup, yet remain single afterwards? Always wanted to know how that logic puzzle works out.
 
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Is it wrong to get slightly blackpilled about relationships when you've just about fucked yourself in every possible way from adolescence onward? At this point, I think I've workaholic'd my way through all the key moments you're supposed to develop flirting and relationship skills to a degree that it's completely foreign to me. My social skills aren't amazing, but I have a decent amount of friends and get along with my family and coworkers, but when it comes to meeting women, I just feel a deep apathy for anyone I meet or match with on apps. I don't really want to sympathize with the manosphere, but when you never really developed that "spark" for someone, it's so hard not to feel like you're constantly missing out on a fulfilling human experience and it gets really frustrating after awhile.
Eh, I think that about myself sometimes I can still get the occasional number or response so I don't think it's actually possible. Humans are social creatures, so in the end we'll be able to muddle our way through. The problem is the old dating advice doesn't work anymore and there aren't as many dads at home anymore. Dad's job is to help their son with this (my dad was around, but he never really gave advice on this front).
I think the broad nature of the internet can really screw with people in unintended ways because some of us end up with a general interest in a lot of things, but a dedicated interest in nothing. Instead of refining yourself and standing out in a specific way, you have to find other masters-of-none to relate to, which means your hobbies look more like a laundry list instead of a meaningful aspect of your life. You can type out that you're interested in video games, movies, TV, history, working out, etc. but unless you have enough to say on any of those topics, conversations just peter out and it's back to the grind.
I don't know about that one. People will find the stuff they really like and stick with it. Life is about trying new things, so you'll get 60 year olds just getting into archery. It's not the Internet, it's modern life. We have time to pursue different hobbies these days, so people do. The problem is when vidya and the Internet are your hobbies: they don't cause you to form actual social relationships with other people, even in the way of "guy at the gym who's always there when I am."
This was autistic as fuck, I'm sorry. I just don't really have anywhere else to vent this sort of thing.
Kind of like everyone else in this thread.
 
Here’s a good question: Are you an incel if you refuse obviously bad relationship partners or an arranged marriage setup, yet remain single afterwards? Always wanted to know how that logic puzzle works out.
I mean, I think the definition of incel is pretty straightforward. Incel is short for involuntary celibate. If you want to have sex, but are not socially capable of doing so you are an incel.

If you refused sex, it's not involuntary.

It's not that hard of a puzzle, really.
 
It's a lot easier to be an incel in some country where you can't get a hooker, imo. If you want sex where I live, get some money and buy it. Or earn a wage and attract it the normal way. I used to be a nearly mute kid with abysmal social skills, an autist, etc. and I still managed to figure out how to act normal and get laid. So I don't buy this incel stuff as a movement or a condition. If you can buy sex you don't have to be involuntarily celibate, so you either want validation from women or you want a meaningful relationship, both of which are possible if you want it that bad...
There's always focus on immutable characteristics like height, or bone structure and not the things they have the power to change. I'm a 5'5" manlet who looks like Brad Dourif stuck in a hedge, and I do okay. Incel as a label sounds like defeatism and whining, or just some group to belong to, to me. Maybe that's what they want, I dunno.
 
Is it wrong to get slightly blackpilled about relationships when you've just about fucked yourself in every possible way from adolescence onward? At this point, I think I've workaholic'd my way through all the key moments you're supposed to develop flirting and relationship skills to a degree that it's completely foreign to me. My social skills aren't amazing, but I have a decent amount of friends and get along with my family and coworkers, but when it comes to meeting women, I just feel a deep apathy for anyone I meet or match with on apps. I don't really want to sympathize with the manosphere, but when you never really developed that "spark" for someone, it's so hard not to feel like you're constantly missing out on a fulfilling human experience and it gets really frustrating after awhile.

I think the broad nature of the internet can really screw with people in unintended ways because some of us end up with a general interest in a lot of things, but a dedicated interest in nothing. Instead of refining yourself and standing out in a specific way, you have to find other masters-of-none to relate to, which means your hobbies look more like a laundry list instead of a meaningful aspect of your life. You can type out that you're interested in video games, movies, TV, history, working out, etc. but unless you have enough to say on any of those topics, conversations just peter out and it's back to the grind.

This was autistic as fuck, I'm sorry. I just don't really have anywhere else to vent this sort of thing.
Some people just live to be alone and some people are simply picky. There's nothing inherently wrong with that by itself. If you look around and dont have someone you can easily appreciate or you have some other constraint not being met then that's simply life. You have to find someone for what they give to you and look at how they validate your needs first and foremost and not everyone will do that. Sometimes the one who does that isn't there or you aren't entirely ready or maybe you don't realize that need you have.
Either way, finding out what you like and how someone fits into that is going to take time, patience and emotional intelligence and dating sites are the worst ways to do it. Just look around for where you can make a connection first and foremost before you run out to get married.
 
I mean is it cringe to self improve in on itself, regardless of who does it? I can see how you can sneer at an incel or a mgtow who tries that but either way they try at the very least. Improving yourself I think its a positive. If you go with the "genetic shit/dead end" as anon states then you might not create a family, you might as well try. If not self improving and gaining a new skill be it language or anything else is a positive and can land you a good job with a good pay if nothing else.
For the person improving themselves, it shouldn't matter what anyone on the outside thinks. When learning a skill, don't take advice or criticism seriously from anyone who doesn't also practice that skill.

A complete person takes a lifetime to develop. Everyone has weaknesses in some area that needs to be shored up.

I have found when you stop looking for girls and keep focusing on personal growth, after a certain point the women find you. I don't mean super rich, just focused and stable and passionate about something.

Also, like another poster said, just fuck ugly girls. Looks don't matter after a certain age anyway, but a loyal partner you like being around can last a lot longer.
 
Why are there so many single young men, anyway? This is becoming more and more of a problem, I've noticed.
There are a lot of single young women too. People aren't getting married and having kids.

I think it's a combination of runaway urbanization, a debt based economy, everyone going to university because muh credentialism and regulations restricting the supply of housing at the same time immigration is increasing demand.
 
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I've accepted being an incel. I was the typical fat lonely kid in school and high school. Getting fit was a double edged sword when it comes to relationships. Girls suddenly payed attention to me, but due to years of being a sperg made me dislike them more. Any ''flirty'' comment, or a girl touching my biceps I would automatically assume it was made in jest or to mock me. I'm not mentally capable of maintaining a relationship, nor do I want to put in so much work for nothing in return. Sex once a month at best? I'd rather play video games.
 
So often in life the opposite of what you think you should do these days is what you should do. Guys simp when they should be chasing their own success, and learning how to say no to the crazy. I hated to hear it as well when I was younger and that is that self discipline is the key to literally everything you could want in life. I sperged around doing everything but being disciplined and then eventually figured out that's what I needed to do. Nobody tells guys this anymore, though, which is why they're all swooning over Jordan Peterson and Stardusk telling them the obvious.
 
I've accepted being an incel. I was the typical fat lonely kid in school and high school. Getting fit was a double edged sword when it comes to relationships. Girls suddenly payed attention to me, but due to years of being a sperg made me dislike them more. Any ''flirty'' comment, or a girl touching my biceps I would automatically assume it was made in jest or to mock me. I'm not mentally capable of maintaining a relationship, nor do I want to put in so much work for nothing in return. Sex once a month at best? I'd rather play video games.
I've accepted that about myself too. Some of you might have suspected I'm one anyway, but that's okay. I don't hate or blame women. I don't feel like women owe me. I don't even hate or blame other men. I accept that I'm just an eccentric sperg who's socially inept. The very few times in my life when women were interested in me, I ended up blowing it because of my personality. However, I don't feel like I need to be Mr. Right for anyone. I'm not looking for Ms. Right and accept she doesn't exist in the first place. For that matter, I'm not bitter or depressed about being an incel. I'd rather be immersed in my hobbies and interests than pretending I'm an alpha male.

Put another way, it's no one's fault but my own and it's not something that defines who I am. Other guys can join the manosphere or whatever if they want, but I'll just stick to walking my own path.
 
The overarching issue is simply that young men aren’t going outside and spending time with people anymore.

Think, in the 20th century you couldn't not have a social life. There were social hermits or outcasts, sure, but the vast majority of people could expect to be having daily interactions with dozens, maybe hundreds of people. That's just not the case anymore, it's 100% possible to exist in a bubble with only a small handful of human to human contact. People today have their close friends and their immediate family, what's fallen away is acquaintances, friends of friends, coworkers, neighbours, old church ladies, community volunteers, local bar flys, guys who you play sports with. Those tier two, three and sub - connections that don't eat up a ton of time but might help connect you to new strangers just don't exist like they used to, and their absence is felt in the lean opportunities available for new connection.

Lockdowns and the harmful, obstructive covid policies put into place in the last 2 years put this into accelerate, but we’ll die before we see the governments accept responsibility for that.
 
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