Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[Spiny Rumples]

I didn't know about the anti-trans point of view until a while after college, but now I realize that I narrowly avoided it myself. One of my close friends from high school went MtF and even got bottom surgery (disowned by parents for that) and had talked with me about "if you could change, would you? What would your body look like?" stuff.
Anyways, my question is: What can I do to help my friend? They are doing well now in a poly relationship and have a job in their field, but I'm concerned that a lot of damage was done that'll hit them at some point. I feel like they're so far in I should just let them believe it so they can have a happier life, because you can't un-neuter yourself.

 

[Vingle]

Only solution is for him to kill himself, then he will be set free from his delusions @Spiny Rumples

 

[Vect]

In my experience, women like yaoi for the same reason men like lesbian porn: Lesbian porn is porn, but you have two sets of boobs to look at and no dick. Similarly, yaoi is romance novel and explicit erotica content, but with two attractive guys and no empty placeholder Bella Swan or Anastasia Steele character.

Yaoi and "slash" content have been around in the female-dominated section of fandom for decades, but it's only in recent years that the fans of such things have claimed to want to be men. And I think this is a not-insignificant contributor to the problem:

This is actually a major difference from all those years past. Tumblr was simultaneously a hub for fandoms populated by teens-to-20's girls much like LiveJournal and Fanfiction.net before it, and a place where people competed against their peers to see who could be the wokest of the woke. And a lot of that competition involved policing who was and wasn't allowed to like stuff (or not like stuff) and why.

Tumblr basically took fandoms populated by the same sort of audience with the same sexual focus as years past, and turned them into an absolute minefield where you can't like this because it's "problematic", you can't not like that because that's "shaming", and you can't like these things over here unless you're part of a certain group because otherwise it's "sexualization" and "fetishization". The site itself may be gone, but it was largely responsible for blending social politics and morality into fan culture so thoroughly that I'm not even sure they can be separated anymore.

I'm not saying that this is the only explanation or even the biggest one, but I think it's good to remember that social justice is basically a caste system where everything, even down to what you're allowed to enjoy, is based on what group you're labeled as and transgenderism is the only accepted way to openly switch groups from one that gets scolded to one that's entitled to do the scolding.

The self-insert element into the same-gender fantasy I think is key, and the very idea that such a thing is possible has exploded the minds of people who have little else to think about. I don't even think its about blending of politics, it's just about the entitlement to what should have stayed digital escapism. The claims of social justice are just an increasingly hollow excuse as the pendulum for sexual permissiveness swings so far the other way.

I have arguments with old-school liberals about this - I'm certain the very suggestion or knowledge that a taboo fetish or paraphilia is possible, possible to be imitated or even the revelation that others share your fetish has messed up the barriers that we consider to be normal. The liberal classic counterargument is that not confronting these desires leads to repression. But there is nothing to repress if we never discovered or grew into these interests right, nor are there any desires to frustrate if the desire was never discovered to being with? If we drew the line that anything outside of vanilla sex for reproductive purposes is a permitted, but private, socially taboo concept? I refuse to believe that so many of Dream's fan community, for example, would be so open into indulging their YaoiGuro (young male dismemberment) fetish of him if they A) hadn't being exposed to the concept and B) not gotten together and felt comfortable enough to bring up the subject for inquiry, and C) not been protected by the crime of 'kink-shaming'. Only a culture of almost reflexive normalisation of sexual deviancy could produce a situation where the fantasee has to graciously accept the desire of his fans to rearrange him into boy-shaped furniture. Some avenues of discovery are best left alone.

I've engaged in conversations with gay transwomen who get really offended at the idea of being sexualised as trans but will eagerly do the same to cis men. As if they've forgotten they're no longer alone and or in an environment where they are encouraged to deny reality.

 

[Spiny Rumples]

Only solution is for him to kill himself, then he will be set free from his delusions @Spiny Rumples

Well, I hope they'll get any joy they can out of life before that. Maybe, with enough time (and they'll have plenty of buyers), someone will create a lab-grown impossible wiener.

 

[Mrs. Addams]

Well then I guess the question is: what is happening to exasperate all these feelings of being intensely uncomfortable with their bodies and about men in general? I get that a good deal of that happens naturally, and always has, but it seems to have gotten so far out of control now.

In general I've noticed an increasing rift between the sexes and this seems like part of that.

I hear porn has gotten more accessible and violent in the internet age…

I don’t understand how teens and young women think that yaoi is realistic or portrays what it is like to be in a homosexual relationship. I am all for ftms living their delusions. I know a ftm/male couple that live like a traditional straight couple with a kid than a same sex couple. So I figure that ftm is more a aesthetic choice than anything of real substance.



I think the rates of Autism and BPD are higher then reported.

I think there’s two groups of FTMs. Many are trendy, and don’t take hormones (or takes T but doesn’t want surgery), which a smaller subset hates themselves and actually transitions.

 

[Noir drag freak]

I think there’s two groups of FTMs. Many are trendy, and don’t take hormones (or takes T but doesn’t want surgery), which a smaller subset hates themselves and actually transitions.

There are probably nine types of trans based on sexual preference, mental illness/trauma, and whether they take hormones. I think that FTM with borderline personality disorders tend to be the type that go into porn. They along with the one with the autism have a melt downs that some gay men don’t consider them real men.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

I don’t understand how teens and young women think that yaoi is realistic or portrays what it is like to be in a homosexual relationship.

Same reason guys like lesbian porn. That said as a man who who can appreciate the aesthetic value of a good penis (read: faggot) it's because a lot of women thanks to the media and their femmeboy friends seem to be laboring under the delusion that gay men aren't men. You know how a lot of teenage virgin losers fantasize about a gamer girl who sucks their dick in between fortnite sessions and crap like that? Same kind of bullshit but from a female perspective. They think gay guys are all like a male galpal or something. Gay men are sensitive, progressive, little angels, with wonderful hair who dress well and totally remember their birthday and whatever the fuck.

I noticed this, gay smut aimed at women always portrays gay people as just the sweetest, most innocent, kind, and loving people imaginable.

Meanwhile here in the real world if you make a grindr account I can promise you you'll get 30 unsolicited dick picks within an hour from greasy weirdos who want you to call them daddy and think asking if you're willing to be a "cum slave" within 2 replies is the height of eroticism. When gay men talk to their women friends they're not talking to them the same way they are talking to men. Men in general do this with women, but it's really obvious with gay guys. If gay men usually have a lot of women friends it's not because they're really more "womanly" where it counts, it's because women are just generally more accepting of guys who like getting fucked in the ass. When they're not around though? It's boys night, baby. And boys night don't give a fuck about your birthday. Like, I've noticed this, it's hard to find normal gay porn. Maybe that's a weird statement, but really just go look at any gay porn site. It's generally not well groomed shy boys cuddling and making googly eyes at each other. It's guys in jock straps (always jock straps, why?) railing each other in the ass and screaming "YOU LIKE THAT SLUT?! YOU FUCKING LIKE THAT DICK YOU FUCKING WHORE!?". And I'm a faggot, remember? I like a shyboy! But nope, none of them on there. Pure beef, top to bottom. Ain't no pillow talk in gay porn, woman. If you think straight porn revolves around objectification and fucked up power dynamics go check out some gay shit. Nobody's fucking shy about that crap.

Male sexuality is an aggressive, filthy, thing. You'd think women would be more acquainted with this reality but hey I can't fault them for having a fantasy, I guess.

 

[Windows 10 Upgrade]

People these days hate the idea of having a "role in society", because it doesn't put "us" front and center, right? In western individualistic thinking it's all about you. Your desires, your ideas, your dreams and wishes. The idea that you have some sort of responsibility towards society that you may not enjoy, may not like, and that may not always makes you happy is hateful to Americans. But the irony is that in the absence of that responsibility people just feel alienated, lonely, and confused.

This is one of the things I've noticed about the whole "trannies in toilets" thing. I mean if I looked like a dude and had fucking weird genitalia that didn't match the sign on the door, I'd be in and out of there in a flash. Not because I would be ashamed, but because we SHOULD be cognizant of the feelings of people around us. No normal person wants to make others feel uncomfortable. And yet you have these MTF troons (and FTM sadly) practically disrobing in bathrooms, showing their feminine penises off and all the exhibition that used to be the purview of your garden-variety flasher. Everything is about THEIR pleasure.

When they're not around though? It's boys night, baby. And boys night don't give a fuck about your birthday. Like, I've noticed this, it's hard to find normal gay porn. Maybe that's a weird statement, but really just go look at any gay porn site. It's generally not well groomed shy boys cuddling and making googly eyes at each other. It's guys in jock straps (always jock straps, why?) railing each other in the ass and screaming "YOU LIKE THAT SLUT?! YOU FUCKING LIKE THAT DICK YOU FUCKING WHORE!?". And I'm a faggot, remember? I like a shyboy! But nope, none of them on there. Pure beef, top to bottom. Ain't no pillow talk in gay porn, woman.

A bit off topic but illustrating some of the difference between male and female desire - a male friend of mine out of curiosity went to a gay bath house back in the 90s when things were just starting to become a little more mainstream (back in the 80s gay culture was more mysterious than the Illuminati for straights) and he later told me the thing that struck him as most confronting was NOBODY talked, everyone loomed silently out of the shadows. I mean, it could have been bath night for a non-speaking priestly order but it was very "no conversation".

Apparently they tried to do a lesbian bath house but all the ladies just sat around talking and not actually fucking.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Well then I guess the question is: what is happening to exasperate all these feelings of being intensely uncomfortable with their bodies and about men in general? I get that a good deal of that happens naturally, and always has, but it seems to have gotten so far out of control now.

In general I've noticed an increasing rift between the sexes and this seems like part of that.

Well, I'd say it's mix. Back in the day the sexes were DEFINITELY divided, women were raised to be one way and men another, and women had to fear outside men more and the two's social circle wasn't as mixed gendered until people got married. There was probably fear and panic and depression about the body even then: most disorders were hidden behind closed doors.

Why it's changed back recently? Or, at least, why has it become more noticeable? I'd say another mix of things. One: the internet has made groups of people who are more anxious, depressed, or have body image issues find each other easier for a loop of horrendous negative feedback. See community watch and the doomer threads in thunderdome heyoo. Two: body issues increased a ton around the 90s, but I cannot remember why - that'll be your homework because I'm lazy. Three: the woke movement happened and made young girls on tumblr fear men again because negative feedback or things that fed into the narrative of "BOYS BAD" like stories of abuse and other grim stuff got popular because SPREAD THE VICTIM SUPPORT THE VICTIM even if they made that shit up for clicks. Four: shit I probably missed since I didn't research this that thoroughly. Basically woke culture has set us back a bit but the internet being introduced to humanity has also been a blessing and a curse. Due to previous historical trends and other stuff we're dealing with it kinda just made a chemical reaction to such.

If it helps OP, a lot of my friends are in mixed sex groups. We got a lot of chads and chadettes who enjoy each other's company and respect each other. The same goes for groups I meet online, and at least one female family member of mine prefers guys over girls as friends due to the drama in girl groups. It's not as bleak as it appears on the outside fren, is what I'm trying to say.

I didn't know about the anti-trans point of view until a while after college, but now I realize that I narrowly avoided it myself. One of my close friends from high school went MtF and even got bottom surgery (disowned by parents for that) and had talked with me about "if you could change, would you? What would your body look like?" stuff.
Anyways, my question is: What can I do to help my friend? They are doing well now in a poly relationship and have a job in their field, but I'm concerned that a lot of damage was done that'll hit them at some point. I feel like they're so far in I should just let them believe it so they can have a happier life, because you can't un-neuter yourself.

Support your friend. Always let them know that if they need to talk about or confess anything you're not here to judge them. If they come to the conclusion they made a mistake, that's when you start consoling them about it and sending them to places that support detransitioners and ye old transwomen (trans women who trooned before the woque brigade) who aren't violently in the cult. Make sure they seek therapy. Make sure that even if they hurt themselves greatly, there's still a lot they can do in life that doesn't require their sex and focus on goals related to personal growth, career, and hobbies. Support them if they try to smooth things over with bridges they burned unless it's clear that there's no smoothing to be done. That's all you can do.

For now, just keep being their friend and loving them as is. I feel you.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

This is one of the things I've noticed about the whole "trannies in toilets" thing. I mean if I looked like a dude and had fucking weird genitalia that didn't match the sign on the door, I'd be in and out of there in a flash. Not because I would be ashamed, but because we SHOULD be cognizant of the feelings of people around us. No normal person wants to make others feel uncomfortable. And yet you have these MTF troons (and FTM sadly) practically disrobing in bathrooms, showing their feminine penises off and all the exhibition that used to be the purview of your garden-variety flasher. Everything is about THEIR pleasure.

I don't think other people feeling "comfortable" is really what matters. Some people get uncomfortable by fucking everything. I've seen weirder shit in public bathrooms than trannies. And it's not like actual perverts are ever deterred by signage. I really don't have a problem with anybody, but I do think that in trying to validate the identities of a small minority people accidently end up undermining a lot of other people's. Not so much in the sense of "your trans which means everyone is so fuck you" I'm talking specifically with children your just adding this whole layer of confusion and anxiety on top of how generally difficult it is to figure yourself out when you're young. And that's really the core of my growing discomfort with that movement, it's not transgendered people living their boring ass lives. Some people's lives are far dumber than that bullshit and most of us don't even notice. But now we're slapping these labels on kids and putting them in boxes that are going to trap them in various ways their whole lives. And it's fucking depressing how when you bring this up to pretty much anybody but far right goons these days they just flat out pretend this isn't an issue. Like there's no way a fucking child would be able to hear this shit from everybody on TV and in life and then not understand its significance.

As a tiny wee faggot I liked Barbie dolls. I liked a lot of girly shit. Didn't mean I WAS a girl, didn't mean I wanted to be either. But people today would probably put me on fucking puberty blockers and shit.

A bit off topic but illustrating some of the difference between male and female desire - a male friend of mine out of curiosity went to a gay bath house back in the 90s when things were just starting to become a little more mainstream (back in the 80s gay culture was more mysterious than the Illuminati for straights) and he later told me the thing that struck him as most confronting was NOBODY talked, everyone loomed silently out of the shadows. I mean, it could have been bath night for a non-speaking priestly order but it was very "no conversation".


Apparently they tried to do a lesbian bath house but all the ladies just sat around talking and not actually fucking.

Gay culture used to be a lot more straightforwardly about sex. In the 90's is when you saw the gay community consciously try to present itself as sort of socially conservative for the first time, but that's horseshit. There is no greater meaning or values system associated with being a homosexual. It's about cumming. You like men and they make you cum. That's it, that's all it is. And that's fine. Anything done in love is fine. Well, eww...okay maybe not that. But MOST things done in love are fine. But yeah, no matter how much modern liberal gays try to pretend there's nothing overtly sexual about the gay community we all know it is overtly sexual. It's the only reason it exists. I've said this to people I know and they'll get offended at the notion that such a big part of their identity is about getting off, but let's be real it's like that for everyone. Gay people just so happen to get off to things most people find icky. Like lots and lots of butt stuff.

Back in the 70's and 80's nobody was kidding themselves. They went to bath houses to suck each others dicks. Nobody was there to meet the love of their life.

 

[YourFriendlyLurker]

Shit, can we have a thread about the whole "yaoi, mlm and fujo" discussion? It is a very intresting and rather modern fenomenon barely touched (?) by researchers. From this thread alone I see that many kiwis have pretty much intresting insights on that. PS yes, a lazy fag who can't do a fucking thread.

 

[PinstripeLuns]

I'm sorry to bother but I'm really struggling to find research that supports the view that cognitive therapy, basically just talking through, gender dysphoria is more affective or just as affective as hormone treatment and cosmetic surgeries.

I've looked through the Tranny Sideshows thread but it's so long. No matter how I word stuff on Google it only shows me how great hormones are.

 

[Spicboyskafan]

I don't have anyone personally in my immediate family who have trooned to my knowledge but I've been excommunicated by my aunt and uncle on my mother's side of the family due to a petty argument about fag and tranny shit, and no I didn't try to "redpill or expose the nose" at the family table. all I said was "I won't support these sex-crazed maniacs because the tv said so."This devolved into them accusing me of being a "trump supporter", "neo nazi", "conspiracy theorists", and how I "only watch Foxnews" and constantly questioning me on"What side am I on"? not to mention my little cousin is sending me yuri lesbian manga and femboy art thing for some comic or this rpg maker game which he's tells me "working on for the past 5 years". Yeah, January has not been a good month for me. As for recent trooning out of friends and family, an old church friend has transitioned to my knowledge during the end of December.

 

[Kiislova]

I don't have anyone personally in my immediate family who have trooned to my knowledge but I've been excommunicated by my aunt and uncle on my mother's side of the family due to a petty argument about fag and tranny shit, and no I didn't try to "redpill or expose the nose" at the family table. all I said was "I won't support these sex-crazed maniacs because the tv said so."This devolved into them accusing me of being a "trump supporter", "neo nazi", "conspiracy theorists", and how I "only watch Foxnews" and constantly questioning me on"What side am I on"? not to mention my little cousin is sending me yuri lesbian manga and femboy art thing for some comic or this rpg maker game which he's tells me "working on for the past 5 years". Yeah, January has not been a good month for me. As for recent trooning out of friends and family, an old church friend has transitioned to my knowledge during the end of December.

Shit man.
It seems the cousin is on track to troonville while the parents encourage the behaviour. Also, 5 years for rpgmaker eroge games is a bit too much for not having something playable and I presume unplayable concept art at best is the state of the "game"

 

[DumbDude42]

Well then I guess the question is: what is happening to exasperate all these feelings of being intensely uncomfortable with their bodies and about men in general? I get that a good deal of that happens naturally, and always has, but it seems to have gotten so far out of control now.

In general I've noticed an increasing rift between the sexes and this seems like part of that.

short answer: feminism, specifically its influence on mass media, combined with the ever increasing influence of that mass media on peoples lives which is driven by advances in technology.

 

[behindyourightnow]

Same reason guys like lesbian porn. That said as a man who who can appreciate the aesthetic value of a good penis (read: faggot) it's because a lot of women thanks to the media and their femmeboy friends seem to be laboring under the delusion that gay men aren't men. You know how a lot of teenage virgin losers fantasize about a gamer girl who sucks their dick in between fortnite sessions and crap like that? Same kind of bullshit but from a female perspective. They think gay guys are all like a male galpal or something. Gay men are sensitive, progressive, little angels, with wonderful hair who dress well and totally remember their birthday and whatever the fuck.

I noticed this, gay smut aimed at women always portrays gay people as just the sweetest, most innocent, kind, and loving people imaginable.

Meanwhile here in the real world if you make a grindr account I can promise you you'll get 30 unsolicited dick picks within an hour from greasy weirdos who want you to call them daddy and think asking if you're willing to be a "cum slave" within 2 replies is the height of eroticism. When gay men talk to their women friends they're not talking to them the same way they are talking to men. Men in general do this with women, but it's really obvious with gay guys. If gay men usually have a lot of women friends it's not because they're really more "womanly" where it counts, it's because women are just generally more accepting of guys who like getting fucked in the ass. When they're not around though? It's boys night, baby. And boys night don't give a fuck about your birthday. Like, I've noticed this, it's hard to find normal gay porn. Maybe that's a weird statement, but really just go look at any gay porn site. It's generally not well groomed shy boys cuddling and making googly eyes at each other. It's guys in jock straps (always jock straps, why?) railing each other in the ass and screaming "YOU LIKE THAT SLUT?! YOU FUCKING LIKE THAT DICK YOU FUCKING WHORE!?". And I'm a faggot, remember? I like a shyboy! But nope, none of them on there. Pure beef, top to bottom. Ain't no pillow talk in gay porn, woman. If you think straight porn revolves around objectification and fucked up power dynamics go check out some gay shit. Nobody's fucking shy about that crap.

Male sexuality is an aggressive, filthy, thing. You'd think women would be more acquainted with this reality but hey I can't fault them for having a fantasy, I guess.

Well, yeah, it’s not supposed to be reality. That’s not what it’s written for. You might as well point to lesbian porn and ask where the u-haul and the Carhartt jackets are. Or point to a Spider-Man movie and say “actually a bite from a genetically engineered/radioactive spider would probably just give you necrotizing fasciitis.”

I actually know someone who writes m/m erotic fiction for a side gig, and although I’ve never asked her specifically, I am sure she would laugh her head off if you asked her if what she was writing was “realistic.” She’s providing a fantasy experience for an audience. I think most sane readers would even admit the same thing.

The issue isn’t why it’s not realistic, it’s why there is a smaller subset of younger readers who can’t seem to tell reality from obvious fantasy. And I don’t think this is limited to m/m stuff, it’s more a general troon thing.

 

[DumbDude42]

The issue isn’t why it’s not realistic, it’s why there is a smaller subset of younger readers who can’t seem to tell reality from obvious fantasy. And I don’t think this is limited to m/m stuff, it’s more a general troon thing.

i think it's not actually a small subset, i think it applies to almost everybody at a young age (the younger they are, the more it applies)
children are extremely impressionable by nature. they'll believe and internalize whatever they are exposed to. the earlier and more intense the exposure, the bigger the effect on the child.

 

[Fucktard Nugget Cunt]

I have a younger autistic teenage brother is teetering on the edge of troonism, but hasn't jumped the shark so far. He's clearly being manipulated by other autistic troon teenagers (I sure hope it's not full grown adults grooming him) into thinking destroying his body, relationships, everything is a healthy way of living. I've had a few talks with him about the reality of transgenderism, how he's being manipulated, how it's more than likely going to pass in a few years, etc. etc. I, along my parents, are also actively trying to get him to a good therapist that will actually help him get through the rest of his teenage years. He seems to have it lodged into his head that he "needs" the estrogen pill, and that it's his "dream" to become a woman.

I'm trying what I can to get him back on the right track in his life. The last thing I want is my only sibling to destroy his life before he even turns 18.

 

[Vingle]

I'm trying what I can to get him back on the right track in his life. The last thing I want is my only sibling to destroy his life before he even turns 18.

The SRS-thread is a good start. He's going to end up like that. If he's that impressionable that he got into troonism, simply just traumatise him from it.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

He seems to have it lodged into his head that he "needs" the estrogen pill, and that it's his "dream" to become a woman.

He needs a cult deprogramming not just therapy