Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[NerdShamer]

The SRS-thread is a good start. He's going to end up like that. If he's that impressionable that he got into troonism, simply just traumatise him from it.

You'll know that he'll right off as alt-right transphobia or "it's just one surgeon out of an few dozen."

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Well, yeah, it’s not supposed to be reality. That’s not what it’s written for. You might as well point to lesbian porn and ask where the u-haul and the Carhartt jackets are. Or point to a Spider-Man movie and say “actually a bite from a genetically engineered/radioactive spider would probably just give you necrotizing fasciitis.”

I actually know someone who writes m/m erotic fiction for a side gig, and although I’ve never asked her specifically, I am sure she would laugh her head off if you asked her if what she was writing was “realistic.” She’s providing a fantasy experience for an audience. I think most sane readers would even admit the same thing.

The issue isn’t why it’s not realistic, it’s why there is a smaller subset of younger readers who can’t seem to tell reality from obvious fantasy. And I don’t think this is limited to m/m stuff, it’s more a general troon thing.

Oh believe me, I'm not saying it's supposed to be realistic. If porn was realistic every scene would end with them looking for that one towel everybody has hidden somewhere that they use to mop up cum and pussy juice while awkwardly joking in an attempt to avoid acknowledging how cringe every word that came out of your mouths for the past 15 minutes was

But ya know, if you don't have THAT experience yeah, smut can give you some pretty fucked up ideas about what physical intimacy actually is.

 

[AMHOLIO]

I have a younger autistic teenage brother is teetering on the edge of troonism, but hasn't jumped the shark so far. He's clearly being manipulated by other autistic troon teenagers (I sure hope it's not full grown adults grooming him) into thinking destroying his body, relationships, everything is a healthy way of living. I've had a few talks with him about the reality of transgenderism, how he's being manipulated, how it's more than likely going to pass in a few years, etc. etc. I, along my parents, are also actively trying to get him to a good therapist that will actually help him get through the rest of his teenage years. He seems to have it lodged into his head that he "needs" the estrogen pill, and that it's his "dream" to become a woman.

I'm trying what I can to get him back on the right track in his life. The last thing I want is my only sibling to destroy his life before he even turns 18.

I hate asking this because I do want him to change but is there a chance to resteer autists once they get something deadset inside their head? I'm guessing it is, but it must be an uphill battle. You're his brother so I'm sure you and your parents have more experience getting him away from bad ideas he comes across.

How many friends does he have outside of these troons? The more outside the better.

 

[Caramelo]

You'll know that he'll right off as alt-right transphobia or "it's just one surgeon out of an few dozen."

Yep. Trying to pull him by force out of the delusion will probably just make him go deeper in it. But might also work, who knows...

A way that I've seen that works for pulling people out of cults or delusions would be leaving him tips of contradictions in it so he realises by himself that it's all bullshit. And it requires tons of patience and skill for that to work with a normal person, imagine a autist.

But even then, people usually don't break out of the spell untill they have already made sacrifices...

 

[Kiislova]

Yep. Trying to pull him by force out of the delusion will probably just make him go deeper in it. But might also work, who knows...

A way that I've seen that works for pulling people out of cults or delusions would be leaving him tips of contradictions in it so he realises by himself that it's all bullshit. And it requires tons of patience and skill for that to work with a normal person, imagine a autist.

But even then, people usually don't break out of the spell untill they have already made sacrifices...

I have yet to try but showing them the GRS Surgeons thread (or a sanitized, niggerless version of it) should do... right?

 

[Spiny Rumples]

I have yet to try but showing them the GRS Surgeons thread (or a sanitized, niggerless version of it) should do... right?

Another thing I've heard about (from the atheist/ex-cult community) is something they call Street Epistemology. There are tutorials and examples on youtube.

Alternatively, maybe get him to check out some cool irl community. A lot of issues come from these things being on the internet, where everyone's a bit socially isolated and porn and hentai are widespread (and value sexy women over men). If he makes friends in a karate class or something, it's possible that he'll be drawn towards whatever they value instead (Doing flips and beating each other up? Discipline?). Peer pressure and rebellion are pretty powerful to adolescents.

 

[bored loser]

I hate asking this because I do want him to change but is there a chance to resteer autists once they get something deadset inside their head? I'm guessing it is, but it must be an uphill battle. You're his brother so I'm sure you and your parents have more experience getting him away from bad ideas he comes across.

I'm a sperg so I might be able to answer this.

When autistics get obsessed with something (what they call "special interests"), it's more than just a hobby. It's basically how they process the world. Everything from that point gets filtered through that obsession. It's their social life and the way they understand everything around them. Combined with autistics feeling isolated and unable to connect with society, this makes a perfect storm for trans stuff to take hold and become their special interest.

Unfortunately, there's not really a good way to snap someone out of a special interest. The only way is to replace it with something else, and even that doesn't work too well (you can have multiple at the same time, and the interest usually never completely goes away even after it's passed).

Plus, autistic people usually have black-and-white thinking, so suggesting anything other than trans shit can make them think you're Hitler.

Once autistics get obsessed with gender, that will be all they talk about forever and ever. The most well-adjusted trans autistic I know has moved on from that obsession and gone onto something else, but if the conversation turns into trans stuff, they'll immediately switch back into "gender obsession" mode.

From other desisters and detransitioners, it seems like the only way autistics can wake up is by a sudden burst of self awareness.

I think part of the problem is that autistic people are usually alexithymic (can't figure out what emotion they're feeling). Maybe helping them understand what they're feeling could help them not assume they have dysphoria.

(also for what it's worth, a ton of autistic people go through this pipeline: "I don't care about gender or what people call me" to "wait that's a sign of being nonbinary?" to "oh I'm super trans").

Sorry for the spergout (seen every autistic I know go through this).

 

[AMHOLIO]

Sorry for the spergout (seen every autistic I know go through this).

No apologies, this was super informative. I had a feeling it was something like this. Autism has a lot of clouds around it thanks to the diversity of the disorder and people lying about themselves or their children, so some true and honest observations are appreciated.

Never apologize for sperging on this autism based forum unless it's off topic or a meltdown.

 

[Cedric_Eff]

I’ve had some people I know IRL troon out but they’re all Female to Male troons.

 

[Wallace]

I'm sorry to bother but I'm really struggling to find research that supports the view that cognitive therapy, basically just talking through, gender dysphoria is more affective or just as affective as hormone treatment and cosmetic surgeries.

I've looked through the Tranny Sideshows thread but it's so long. No matter how I word stuff on Google it only shows me how great hormones are.

You can't find it because no one would be willing to do it. First, ROGD hasn't been around for very long, so there's no body of research to use as a reference. Second, anyone even suggesting anything besides affirmation would instantly become a pariah, since they would be advocating for "conversion therapy". So anyone who has this opinion that ROGD kids need talk therapy instead of hormones and surgery is keeping that opinion to themselves.

 

[Vingle]

A way that I've seen that works for pulling people out of cults or delusions would be leaving him tips of contradictions in it so he realises by himself that it's all bullshit

Presenting him to Oli London? Retards are very keen on telling that he can't change his race, but gender is completely fine.

 

[Ser Prize]

I’ve had some people I know IRL troon out but they’re all Female to Male troons.

Did they RP as 'uwu tumblr boys'?

 

[Cedric_Eff]

Did they RP as 'uwu tumblr boys'?

No, they're were tomboy lesbians for years and came out as trans.

 

[Ser Prize]

No, they're were tomboy lesbians for years and came out as trans.

You hate to see it. Where have all the hetero tomboys gone?

 

[behindyourightnow]

i think it's not actually a small subset, i think it applies to almost everybody at a young age (the younger they are, the more it applies)
children are extremely impressionable by nature. they'll believe and internalize whatever they are exposed to. the earlier and more intense the exposure, the bigger the effect on the child.

That's a good point. I guess the question is, why have most people been able to grow out of that immaturity up until now, whereas now so many people troon out and/or get stuck in it ? I don't think the answer is just "online grooming," I think it has a lot to do with the specific ways people use the internet now.

I also think it's underappreciated just how much trooning out at a young age these days sucks you into a sort of stasis where you never develop your tastes or interact meaningfully with anyone outside of the troon cult. All the 25-year-old extremely online FtMs still act like they're 17.

 

[behindyourightnow]

I have a younger autistic teenage brother is teetering on the edge of troonism, but hasn't jumped the shark so far. He's clearly being manipulated by other autistic troon teenagers (I sure hope it's not full grown adults grooming him) into thinking destroying his body, relationships, everything is a healthy way of living. I've had a few talks with him about the reality of transgenderism, how he's being manipulated, how it's more than likely going to pass in a few years, etc. etc. I, along my parents, are also actively trying to get him to a good therapist that will actually help him get through the rest of his teenage years. He seems to have it lodged into his head that he "needs" the estrogen pill, and that it's his "dream" to become a woman.

I'm trying what I can to get him back on the right track in his life. The last thing I want is my only sibling to destroy his life before he even turns 18.

Are you in the US? Genspect might have some resources for finding a good non-affirming therapist. It's mostly for parents but if you can get your parents on board they're very good. The group is specifically designed for people in your parents' position:

https://genspect.org/resources/

(They have resources for other countries as well but I don't know how extensive they are)

 

[Wallace]

That's a good point. I guess the question is, why have most people been able to grow out of that immaturity up until now, whereas now so many people troon out and/or get stuck in it ? I don't think the answer is just "online grooming," I think it has a lot to do with the specific ways people use the internet now.

I also think it's underappreciated just how much trooning out at a young age these days sucks you into a sort of stasis where you never develop your tastes or interact meaningfully with anyone outside of the troon cult. All the 25-year-old extremely online FtMs still act like they're 17.

Like you said, it's a cult. There may also be aspects of emotional immaturity/Peter Pan syndrome, a possible consequence of overly permissive parenting and the narcissism that results from excess social media use.

 

[NerdShamer]

There may also be aspects of emotional immaturity/Peter Pan syndrome, a possible consequence of overly permissive parenting and the narcissism that results from excess social media use.

With Chris, it's mainly over him being impressionable and his crossdressing fetish. ADF kind of did it for the clout, IIRC.

As for everything else, well there's no shortage of middle-aged men enjoying dressing like an teenage stripper or oversharing on the web.

But the bottom line is that you can't really fix crazy outside of extensive therapy.

 

[DumbDude42]

That's a good point. I guess the question is, why have most people been able to grow out of that immaturity up until now, whereas now so many people troon out and/or get stuck in it ? I don't think the answer is just "online grooming," I think it has a lot to do with the specific ways people use the internet now.

because in pre internet times kids weren't routinely exposed to deranged fanfiction writings and gender ideology from an early age. the trooning happens as the end result of it, and is preceeded by years and years of exposure to corrupting influences.

 

[Aunt Carol]

because in pre internet times kids weren't routinely exposed to deranged fanfiction writings and gender ideology from an early age. the trooning happens as the end result of it, and is preceeded by years and years of exposure to corrupting influences.

Another aspect might be Internet friends vs IRL friends.

IRL friends were limited by geography. Kids used to only have access to the other kids in their neighborhood or school, so while there was still the ability to universally shun a smelly kid or a kid who sets fires, kids had to live with the smaller differences.

Not that pre-teens were routinely discussing politics, but I think that being able to have heated debate about dumb stuff like cartoon characters' relative power levels and still remain friends afterward is an ability that levels up with time into being able to have friends with differing opinions.

Online, your friends can be anyone from anywhere in the world! And any age or sex-offender status! If MacKenzie next door disagrees with you one way and Madison across the street takes an opposite tack, instead of trying to reconcile or get past all three viewpoints, you can talk to online friends instead. Easy to curate with a block button or unfollowing, or changing your own view to match with a community opinion when they agree with you on everything else.

It's a lesser version of that meme about how people with dumb fetishes kept it under their hat 50 years ago, but now you can find a whole community of toaster-fuckers and ruin your life.