Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

It's probably a mixture of everything.

I just picture that once he did his starting point, which was, directly copying some stuff from TESB and ROTJ. Linking it to TFA. Saw how repetitive it was. Went through writing subversion.

Then layered in his dumb little ideas and themes to explore, let that drive the plot. "What if Han Solo didn't have a heart of gold and was just a scoundral." Or whatever he said the idea behind DJ was. Then kept adding more shit in, no matter how much it was making the film a mess. I just assume at some point he must have embraced it. Either getting tickled on how bad it could be, or embracing how little he cared and not trying.

There's just something in his smugness, where I think what some people took to him trolling fans. Was his ego thinking he was going to shit all over this and no one will notice.
I remember some quote from him when he was a quirky indie movie director saying something like true art is making something people either love or hate, so he probably thinks he's a genius because he managed to make a huge piece of shit set in the Star Wars canon that has brainlets and midwits thinking it's the closest thing you can get to intellectual cinema in a big pop culture franchise and everyone else hating it.
 
The Art of Star Wars The Mandalorian (Season 2) was released this week and has an interesting quote from Dave Filoni recalling a conversation he had with George Lucas about Baby Yeed.

“I had a talk with George, at one point, about the Child. His main concern was that the kid has to have a proper amount of training.”

I don’t know if there’s more to it as I don’t have the book, but on the surface this appears to be a swipe at Rey’s lack of training in the Disney Sequel Trilogy.
 
It bereaves me to be the bearer of such bad news, especially so soon after the passing of Dave Wolverton, but I come to the thread with incredibly sad tidings.

As reported by his son this morning, legendary Star Wars Comic writer Tom Veitch has passed away, at 80 years old.

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Veitch is not a small name in the Expanded Universe whatsoever, especially in regards to comics. In fact, it is entirely because of the contributions of both him and artist Cam Kennedy that we were able to get nearly two decades of Dark Horse comics material.

I’m certain most of you probably know him from his most famous work, Dark Empire, a series which he and Kennedy had already been working on at Marvel in the late 80’s, where it would languish in development hell until Dark Horse secured the comics rights in the early 90’s. Aided by the personal input of George Lucas and the sinister blue and green macabre hues of 2000 AD alumnus Cam Kennedy, Veitch penned a story that remains controversial and polarizing to this day…but was nevertheless highly influential.

World Devastators. Shadow Droids. Holocrons. The vertical criminal metropolis of Nar Shadaa. Luke’s first steps to recruiting and liberating confused and afraid Force Users. The first steps of Leia embracing her Jedi lineage. The ongoing grudge between Han and Boba. The very concept of ancient Sith/Jedi mythology that preceded the OT by thousands of years.

It all originated here, from the pen of Tom Veitch.

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For these reasons, I would posit that however outlandish the premise of this comic is, it arguably pioneered more mainstay EU elements than even The Thrawn Trilogy. For an unproven comic series to introduce these many long-term facets of Star Wars in only a few issues was groundbreaking, especially when factoring that it was all written in 1991. True, the unfortunate timing of its release meant it contradicted with various elements of the Prequel Trilogy…but that was true of many stories from this early era of EU publishing, even Timothy Zahn’s lauded work. And more than that, the success and popularity of Dark Empire would not only prove that Star Wars was capable of epic storytelling far beyond previous comic efforts, it convinced Lucasfilm Licensing that Dark Horse was the right fit—granting them the exclusive comic rights they would hold until 2015.

That’s right: we got nearly 25 years of phenomenal Dark Horse Star Wars comics because of Dark Empire.

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But I and many others would argue that Veitch’s true success wasn’t in handling stories about Luke, Han and Leia’s post-Endor escapades. It was when he approached George Lucas with a radical idea that he was sure would get shot down: in this barren, primitive era of publishing where OT nostalgia reigned supreme and the Prequels were nowhere in sight, Veitch wanted to chronicle the ancient history of the Jedi and the Sith.

To his unending surprise, Lucas loved the idea—and in 1993, Tales of the Jedi came into being.

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I cannot stress the mountainous importance of this series. Practically everything that’s popular and well-known about ancient Star Wars lore originated from these pages: Ulic Qel-Droma, Nomi Sunrider, Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun…names that would be immortalized in works like KOTOR, all made their debut here. On his own, Veitch conceptualized locales like the Iron Citadel of Cinnegar, Onderon and its locales—from its capital Iziz, to its jungle moon, Dxun. He conceived the Adegan lightsaber crystals, the Sith hississ dragons, the Nadd Uprising and the Sith War. And once Veitch began his collaboration with Kevin J Anderson, Tales only skyrocketed;

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Its story became more nuanced and dramatic, was bolstered by the backstory of the Sith Homeworld and Naga Sadow (which Anderson would flesh out in his own series), the tragedy of Nomi and Ulic spiraling into a climactic ending, the confrontation of Exar Kun and his master…all of the narrative and world-building foundations that the next two decades of SW media would be built around.

If Dark Empire was a huge step for the SW universe, Tales of the Jedi would be the jaw-dropping leap. And while Veitch would end his involvement with the series with its third entry, Dark Lords of the Sith, the concepts and creations he pioneered would pave the way for countless creations. His collaborator Anderson would go onto finish the series, penning arguably its narrative highpoint in the form of Tales of the Jedi: Redemption. Both Bioware and Obsidian would economize on the galactic history he created, using it as the bedrock for both Knights of the Old Republic games. Countless Dark Horse scribes from John Jackson Miller to John Ostrander would build off of his mythology in their own work. Even today, if you play the SWTOR MMO or any of its expansions, you will see the remnants of Veitch’s world and characters strewn about…whispers of titans like Qel-Droma and Sunrider, locales like Korriban and Dxun, and tales of the original Jedi-Sith conflict that spun into the Galactic War being waged in the ongoing SWTOR storyline.

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And yet for all of Veitch’s efforts, the tsunami of memorable elements he brought to the SW universe, he wouldn’t be vindicated during his career. The controversy of his Dark Empire storyline followed him throughout the years, remaining the routine target of ridicule by both fans and even authors like Timothy Zahn. Hit-piece articles decrying the EU would often cite his work as the “shark-jumping moment of Star Wars”, and a regular point of mockery by cretinous charlatans who never read one page of the EU. And while the disasterpiece that was Rise of Skywalker certainly vindicated Dark Empire’s stronger elements by pinching out a wildly-inferior rehash of the exact same premise, Veitch’s story is still lambasted far and wide by the SW fandom…so much so that, for years, it became part of the negative word-of-mouth that tainted the EU’s reputation as “80% garbage”, and dissuade newcomers from giving it a chance.

I regret to say that, for all of my spouting about the EU on this thread, I was one of these people. I didn’t give the EU a proper chance for years, squarely because I allowed negative hearsay about stories like Dark Empire coerce me into avoiding it. Thankfully, my personal fallout with Disney’s tenure on the franchise back in 2015 (and the release of a certain ANH remake) convinced me to bite my tongue and give the EU a chance…and I realized for myself how many redeeming elements Dark Empire really had, and how much Tom Veitch gave to the continuity I now love.

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There’s a story Veitch liked to tell when he was alive: that when Dark Empire first came out, George Lucas liked it so much that he sent copies of it to Lucasfilm Employees throughout Skywalker Ranch during Christmas of 1991. And now, I find myself looking back on that story with some melancholy, thinking about how that was one of the only instances where Veitch’s efforts were given some positive recognition.

So I invite everyone who only remembers Tom Veitch for wacky concepts like the Emperor returning via clone bodies or titanic superweapons like the Galaxy Gun to read Tales of the Jedi…to see the dramatic journey of Nomi Sunrider and Ulic Qel-Droma, to witness the best of ancient SW lore in its infancy, and remember Veitch for creating elements that, without which, the Star Wars universe would be a far emptier place.

RIP - 1941-2022

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The Art of Star Wars The Mandalorian (Season 2) was released this week and has an interesting quote from Dave Filoni recalling a conversation he had with George Lucas about Baby Yeed.

“I had a talk with George, at one point, about the Child. His main concern was that the kid has to have a proper amount of training.”

I don’t know if there’s more to it as I don’t have the book, but on the surface this appears to be a swipe at Rey’s lack of training in the Disney Sequel Trilogy.
George has been trashing TFA since TFA came out. A Star Wars book from a few years back had an interview with him from 2015 where he talked about the force, and how Jedi have to train in order to use it properly, which was clearly a jab at MaRey Sue in TFA. After he called Disney "white slavers" on Charlie Rose I think Bob Iger personally told him to stop. Then he said nothing about TLJ other than calling it "beautifully made" (which doesn't mean anything), and didn't even go to the premiere of TROS. I assume he's never even watched it considering how much of a fuck you TFA and TLJ were to him.

@Mississippi Motorboater
F. I guess it has to mean something about the quality of his writing if Disney is ripping off what he wrote for their expanded universe out of sheer desperation. The hit pieces against the EU were pure spin from the rat media to distract from how badly TLJ and Solo were doing at the time.
 
@Mississippi Motorboater
F. I guess it has to mean something about the quality of his writing if Disney is ripping off what he wrote for their expanded universe out of sheer desperation. The hit pieces against the EU were pure spin from the rat media to distract from how badly TLJ and Solo were doing at the time.
I mean, I will give JJ and RoS one thing and it's that deciding to make a retarded rip off of Dark Empire was downright novel and inspired compared to the last two which were just lazy and retarded rip offs of the OT.
 
Only thing Rian did right was destroying JewJew Abrams's empty and retarded mystery boxes along with breaking the rose tinted glasses everyone had on for Disney Wars and finally making people remember that he, JJ and the people at Disney's Lucasfilm are all self-absorbed retards who never plan ahead. Like someone here already said, all of Disney's decisions were unplanned or reactionary, with their only real success being with a lot of boomerfag and wokefag pandering to keep consoomers consuming, that and british coomers who have a tremendous hard-on for Daisy Ridley and who currently make up the largest percentage of Disney Wars consoomers (and Ahsoka coomers).


Also all this talk of disney housing is just taking this whole "lifestyle brand" horse shit to disturbing new levels.
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I actually won't be surprised if this becomes the unironic reaction once more disneyspergs get wind of it. I'm already starting to see a few freaks defend this and the disney wars hotel, with them only hating the fact that they can't afford this "amazing" experience.

I'd go further, Ran made a movie, JJ made a trailer. JJ wasted two hours of my life on nothing but strung together trailer scenes. Rian made a film.

What the fuck even is a "Star Wars house?" Isn't a mud hut in a swamp?

George has been trashing TFA since TFA came out. A Star Wars book from a few years back had an interview with him from 2015 where he talked about the force, and how Jedi have to train in order to use it properly, which was clearly a jab at MaRey Sue in TFA. After he called Disney "white slavers" on Charlie Rose I think Bob Iger personally told him to stop. Then he said nothing about TLJ other than calling it "beautifully made" (which doesn't mean anything), and didn't even go to the premiere of TROS. I assume he's never even watched it considering how much of a fuck you TFA and TLJ were to him.

@Mississippi Motorboater
F. I guess it has to mean something about the quality of his writing if Disney is ripping off what he wrote for their expanded universe out of sheer desperation. The hit pieces against the EU were pure spin from the rat media to distract from how badly TLJ and Solo were doing at the time.

Meh, he's softly lobbed a few stones. Nothing impressive.

The Art of Star Wars The Mandalorian (Season 2) was released this week and has an interesting quote from Dave Filoni recalling a conversation he had with George Lucas about Baby Yeed.

“I had a talk with George, at one point, about the Child. His main concern was that the kid has to have a proper amount of training.”

I don’t know if there’s more to it as I don’t have the book, but on the surface this appears to be a swipe at Rey’s lack of training in the Disney Sequel Trilogy.

Well, I finally watched the episode with Luke 'training' baby Yoda. I'd struggle to see it as an improvement over Rey. Fucking retarded doesn't begin to approach it.

The no attachment rule isn't inherently bad. In fact, had the Jedi not broken that rule, they never would have lost to Palps. Anakin's attachment to Padme was the wedge that Sidious used to cause Anakin's fall.

Alllllll of that being said (This is very played out in the Expanded Lore), Luke has zero reason to adopt this. He was raised by two loving people; he clearly is more interested in attachment to his father using that in Return to redeem Anakin. It's not that I'd mind him choosing to adopt this Jedi teaching....but it's wholly out of character from his portrayal in the OT.

That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with doing your own thing. You want this quirky, Marvelized Boba Fett? Fine. But you have to connect the fucking dots between a cold blooded killer in the Holiday Special, Empire, and Return with the caring man who values respect and honor in Book of Fett.

Rey never had a character. Forget training. Who is Rey really? What word possibly describes her?
 
I'd go further, Ran made a movie, JJ made a trailer. JJ wasted two hours of my life on nothing but strung together trailer scenes. Rian made a film.

What the fuck even is a "Star Wars house?" Isn't a mud hut in a swamp?



Meh, he's softly lobbed a few stones. Nothing impressive.



Well, I finally watched the episode with Luke 'training' baby Yoda. I'd struggle to see it as an improvement over Rey. Fucking retarded doesn't begin to approach it.

The no attachment rule isn't inherently bad. In fact, had the Jedi not broken that rule, they never would have lost to Palps. Anakin's attachment to Padme was the wedge that Sidious used to cause Anakin's fall.

Alllllll of that being said (This is very played out in the Expanded Lore), Luke has zero reason to adopt this. He was raised by two loving people; he clearly is more interested in attachment to his father using that in Return to redeem Anakin. It's not that I'd mind him choosing to adopt this Jedi teaching....but it's wholly out of character from his portrayal in the OT.

That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with doing your own thing. You want this quirky, Marvelized Boba Fett? Fine. But you have to connect the fucking dots between a cold blooded killer in the Holiday Special, Empire, and Return with the caring man who values respect and honor in Book of Fett.

Rey never had a character. Forget training. Who is Rey really? What word possibly describes her?
Luke is the “Superman” of Star Wars, there’s nothing wrong with the “all-loving hero” trope. Kids these days need heroes like Luke, Superman or Spider-Man, not everything needs to be so dark and depressing.

Fucking EA Battlefront did Luke better, let that sink in.

RIP Tom Veitch, the world of sci-fi loses one of it’s best. Dark Empire is awesome, only reprobates, shills and fake-fans trash it.
 
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Luke is Star War’s Superman, there’s nothing wrong with the “all-loving hero” trope. Kids these days need heroes like Luke, Superman or Spider-Man, not everything needs to be so dark and depressing.

Fucking EA Battlefront did Luke better, let that sink in.
They genuinely had no idea who Luke was or why people liked Star Wars in the first place.

Think about the fact that Kathleen pitched TFA to JJ with the question of "who is Luke Skywalker", because they thought that he would be some mythical figure to most people watching the movies for the first time. That's ridiculous. Ffs he's just a good natured person who wants to do good in an uncaring galaxy, not Jesus Christ. Honestly, Luke should have been in TFA more than a shitty cameo. If they didn't want him overshadowing the new characters, don't center the entire plot around finding him. That's how he became some mythical idol that he never was. And that's how Rian was allowed to tear that image down in TLJ.
The same word that described Bella Swan during the Twilight craze: bland
The whole plot of the Disney movies is some weird amalgam of every YA novel aimed at girls from the 2010s with the basic framework of the OT slapped onto it. The Mary Sue protagonist for girls to self insert as, the bad boy the Mary Sue thinks she can change because he's hot, a military Resistance made up of diverse and inclusive individuals fighting the evil government. The only thing missing is a cliché love triangle, and the only reason they didn't have one is because they didn't want the idea of Rey ending up with a black guy.

The problem is that by the time the trilogy started, the Hunger Games was ending, which caused the whole YA novel craze to die out.

Edit: The other thing Twilight and HG had that the DT didn't are protagonists played by two good actresses who have been good in other films. Daisy Ridley is not a good actress.
 
Daisy got dat booty tho!
Sorry, but Daisy has less of a body than Rey has character development. I mean she gets mogged by walkaround actresses at the Disney Parks.
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By the way the new Lord of the Rings Amazon show is being ran by two literal whos suggested to Amazon by JJ Abrams. If the series sucks (which it most likely will), you can blame JJ for fucking up yet another franchise. I am so sick and tired of Bad Robot's nepotistic friend group ruining everything.
 
I'd go further, Ran made a movie, JJ made a trailer. JJ wasted two hours of my life on nothing but strung together trailer scenes. Rian made a film.

What the fuck even is a "Star Wars house?" Isn't a mud hut in a swamp?



Meh, he's softly lobbed a few stones. Nothing impressive.



Well, I finally watched the episode with Luke 'training' baby Yoda. I'd struggle to see it as an improvement over Rey. Fucking retarded doesn't begin to approach it.

The no attachment rule isn't inherently bad. In fact, had the Jedi not broken that rule, they never would have lost to Palps. Anakin's attachment to Padme was the wedge that Sidious used to cause Anakin's fall.

Alllllll of that being said (This is very played out in the Expanded Lore), Luke has zero reason to adopt this. He was raised by two loving people; he clearly is more interested in attachment to his father using that in Return to redeem Anakin. It's not that I'd mind him choosing to adopt this Jedi teaching....but it's wholly out of character from his portrayal in the OT.

That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with doing your own thing. You want this quirky, Marvelized Boba Fett? Fine. But you have to connect the fucking dots between a cold blooded killer in the Holiday Special, Empire, and Return with the caring man who values respect and honor in Book of Fett.

Rey never had a character. Forget training. Who is Rey really? What word possibly describes her?

Luke had the line about Grogu isn't necessarily being trained, he's remembering.

At this stage, I'm pretty sure they're doing something like whatever the original plan for Rey probably was. Had been trained as a kid (probably by Luke) and for whatever reason had her powers and memories suppressed. Hence the damn title of the film and various other things in TFA that were undone by TLJ.

Grogu was being trained at the Jedi temple, repressed memories and so forth.

After TFA, I thought they did a good job with Rey with my mind towards there actually being more development of her character and story. Seeing it as just an introduction.

Grogu is entertaining but it's a fucking retarded character. As in the character has mental retardation. I have no idea how on earth they will be able to put any growth or further characterisation on him. Without fundamentally changing the character. They're always going to want him to be doing the "cute" baby shit. So they'll never be able to have him pull out a light sabre and cut down enemies. Really just limited to the odd soft force use.
 
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Luke had the line about Grogu isn't necessarily being trained, he's remembering.

At this stage, I'm pretty sure they're doing something like whatever the original plan for Rey may probably was. Had been trained as a kid (probably by Luke) and for whatever reason had her powers and memories suppressed. Hence the damn title of the film and various other things in TFA that were undone by TLJ.

Grogu was being trained at the Jedi temple, repressed memories and so forth.

After TFA, I thought they did a good job with Rey with my mind towards there actually being more development of her character and story. Seeing it as just an introduction.

Grogu is entertaining but it's a fucking retarded character. As in the character has mental retardation. I have no idea how on earth they will be able to put any growth or further characterisation on him. Without fundamentally changing the character. They're always going to want him to be doing the "cute" baby shit. So they'll never be able to have him pull out a light sabre and cut down enemies. Really just limited to the odd soft force use.
Also, Grogu can never talk or he stops being a baby. Even though a joy in life is hearing a baby talk.
 
Sorry, but Daisy has less of a body than Rey has character development. I mean she gets mogged by walkaround actresses at the Disney Parks.
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By the way the new Lord of the Rings Amazon show is being ran by two literal whos suggested to Amazon by JJ Abrams. If the series sucks (which it most likely will), you can blame JJ for fucking up yet another franchise. I am so sick and tired of Bad Robot's nepotistic friend group ruining everything.
He better not go near any tokusatsu property. Nobody needs to have STUNNING BRAVE WOMAN boss the Kamen Riders, Super Sentais, and Ultramans around.
 
@Mississippi Motorboater First Ron Cobb, then JW Rinzler, then Dave Wolverton, and now Tom Veitch. Meanwhile Alan Dean Foster and Shanon McRandle's cancer symptoms are getting worse while dozens of other artists, developers and writers have their work copied or stolen with no financial gain or even a miserable little credit.

These people helped to move the franchise forward yet none of them get a single iota of remembrance or mention from Disney or nu-Lucafilm even if they're on their deathbed.

Holy fuck the 2020s are looking to be even more miserable for them than the last decade.
At this stage, I'm pretty sure they're doing something like whatever the original plan for Rey may probably was. Had been trained as a kid (probably by Luke) and for whatever reason had her powers and memories suppressed. Hence the damn title of the film and various other things in TFA that were undone by TLJ.
There were no plans by JJ or Kennedy and I seriously don't know where people keep getting these fanfic ideas about JJ and Rey.

For pity's sake, Bad Robot and Lucasfilm only spent 16 months developing this aimless wreck. The only plans that ever existed were by George and Michael Arndt and almost all of them except the most bare bones inspirations for two scenes in TFA were abandoned (ie Rey's scavenging and the Finn and Poe's ship escape). Their original pitch for the sequels just had "Kira", a poor girl and her surly pet droid from a junkyard raxus planet who had her village destroyed by Jedi Killers and later ran into a younger Han Solo stand-in named Sam, and they eventually run into a Samuel Jackson-ish New Republic soldier (simply called @John Doe) who escorts them to the new jedi order because the girl wants to be a jedi and shows potential apparently with Luke training her to balance her inner darkness, and there they find out about a plot concerning jedi assassinations being committed by a succubus twi'lek (because George had a hard-on for Darth Talon) in league with a cult of supposed Force atheists called Jedi Killers who want to kill all jedi as part of a bigger plot perpetrated by a new villain called "Uber" and possibly Maul.
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That was all just a basic outline for a plot along with a few idea pitches mind you that continued to get shaken and thrown back and forth since once George was kicked out departed it was mostly just artists tossing around concept art to see what would stick and what Arndt could make sense of. Initially at the start of 2013, they brought in Dave Filoni and a few others to help "refine" the "round table" of Luke and his friends, but any notions of this and any original elements were quickly abandoned once Alan Horn, Kennedy and Rick Carter took a more active role in the production and brought in JJ, Bad Robot and Kasdan to fuck things up further, agreeing to abandon any pre or post OT elements in favor of just retreading the same exact plot as the OT and having Kira Rey overshadow and replace Luke completely to appeal to the growing neo-feminist movement at the time because they thought it would make the film more trendy and Kasdan and JJ quickly had Luke and his role suppressed to a mere cameo in a miserable little hovel (one of the pitches had Luke be the one who owned Vader's scorched helmet to showcase how miserable and stuck in the past he was rather than Emo Ren) where he would send Rey to find the "New Female Yoda" to train her because he was too miserable and useless to do anything but then declared her his successor to "pass the torch" like a true Sue.
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Even the first of JJ's ideas still had them going back to a sunken Death Star to find a mcguffin for the final entry.

This pre-production crap was shared at cons and news sites before Bad Robot took over and parts of it were later archived in the TFA artbook, among other sources and interviews (with the exception of JW Rinzler's unpublished The Making of TFA which Disney refused to publish due to having a messy and rushed production of 16 months and loads of incompetence and reshoots) and I really wish people would stop making false claims about JJ having plans for Luke training Rey or Snoke being Plagueis and other crap. All Horn, JJ, KK and Rick had in mind was how to make the quickest and most formulaic money grabber within the short span of 16 months to kick off their annual milking plans. From the start these fuckers had no idea what they were doing, with Horn not even knowing who Luke was while asking the most moronic fart huffing questions to a bunch of dumb interns and cheap San Francisco and Hollywood trustees who were hired on the fly. In the end, all they wanted to make was a Star Wars movie for people who were never that interested in Star Wars or even watch the OT and their idea to appeal to boomer nerds was simply repeating OT shit and axing all the PT and world building elements to make it as simple as possible for the common movie goer, all of which was based on lazy research JJ made, and ironically they've backtracked on that and doubled down on the PT and Filoni pandering after remember that OT puritan boomers are a dying breed that barely buys merch anymore outside of the few collectors with arrested development.

After his ST films, Westworld reboot, and LOST, how anyone can think JJ is a man of plans is beyond me. There is zero animosity between JJ and Rian, much like the false claims that there was hostility between Rian and Filoni despite both actually working together for the film and helping the latter out with learning live action cinematography.
George has been trashing TFA since TFA came out. A Star Wars book from a few years back had an interview with him from 2015 where he talked about the force, and how Jedi have to train in order to use it properly, which was clearly a jab at MaRey Sue in TFA. After he called Disney "white slavers" on Charlie Rose I think Bob Iger personally told him to stop. Then he said nothing about TLJ other than calling it "beautifully made" (which doesn't mean anything), and didn't even go to the premiere of TROS. I assume he's never even watched it considering how much of a fuck you TFA and TLJ were to him.
Don't forget that online stream he did with his wife where he just outright admits that Disney Wars is not his Star Wars and that he has no control anymore.
 
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