War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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It's been a weird aspect of this whole conflict seeing people equating a regular Democratic country like Ukraine to Afghanistan, arguing that if there was a defense of Ukraine that it's like trying to install a foreign style society into Afghanistan where the soldiers there didn't even want to fight for it. I could understand early on saying Putin was just taking some village on the border (that most would end up evacuating) so it's insane to get into a conflict to defend it, but then he continued on with trying to essentially take over an entire European country.

I can even understand the idea of not wanting to send American soldiers on the ground, but then you have people equating sending Ukrainians weapons so they can defend themselves to putting Americans in harms way. It's all a bit strange and performative as though they've overdosed on political memes and are trying to shove every new situation they come across into some old meme they remember no matter how little sense it makes. I can't see how else people could look at a bunch of patriotic Ukrainians fighting against an invasion and think helping them is identical to helping some kiddy fucking Muslim in the middle east by having US soldiers act as a permanent police force for them.
This is one of the most annoying things about the discourse here I've found about this, all the performative I'M NOT GOING TO UKRAINE TO DIE FOR GLOBOHOMO. That was never seriously on the table, it's as annoying and clueless as the people freaking out about how Drumpf was going to start WW3 a few years ago.
 
How are the UK calculating deaths? I really don't get it. Russia has 5x the casulties despite the fact that several regions are already under Russian control?

I don't know if I believe these numbers.
I wouldn't believe them to be 100% accurate, the fog of war is a real phenomena.

However, the UK have a well published doctrine on how they collect, develop and verify intelligence. What they are releasing will likely have been through this process. Which means any losses mentioned will have been verified to a sufficient standard for them to confirm. (Perhaps it's easier to verify Russia deaths than Ukrainian?)
They're not almost cold war era, they're exactly cold war era, which is weird. We demonstrated conclusively years ago that those tactics are shite in a modern combat scenario (absent complete and overwhelming air superiority as well). I can only assume Putin for some reason thought the Ukranians wouldn't fight, because it was pretty clear that while NATO wouldn't be poutting boots on the ground they've been shipping ATGMs and MANPADs to the ukranians like they're going out of style, and that's a hard counter to his attempted zerg rushes.
My thinking is, Putin has bought into his own narrative. He believes that the Russian military is unmatched, that Ukraine is Russian and would rise up against the "Nazis".

I've said for a while, small teams with shoulder launched munitions are effective enough to blunt the Russians. If they can't win quickly, this will become messy at best and unwinnable at worst. It's a long shot for Ukraine, but if normal people decide it's worth fighting I think Putin may have fucked himself.

I hope he gets dragged like Gaddafi.
 
The river issue is an easy geography problem.

The town is named after the nearby river.


It flows east through Ukraine, Belarus, and Ukraine again, draining into the Dnieper.

The Dnieper (/(də)ˈniːpər/ (də-)NEE-pər)[2][3] or Dnipro (/(də)niːˈproʊ/ (də-)nee-PROH;[4] Ukrainian: Дніпро [d⁽ʲ⁾n⁽ʲ⁾iˈprɔ] (audio speaker iconlisten)) is one of the major rivers of Europe, rising in the Valdai Hills near Smolensk, Russia, before flowing through Belarus and Ukraine to the Black Sea.

So I feel like Putin would be shitting where he eats to poison that river and/or make the threat.
 
the russian army is like 18 km from kiev. where is this retarded russia is losing sperging come from
Losing is a push, certainly it is clear they are underperforming.

Plus, distance is somewhat irrelevant - question is can they take Kiev and hold it quickly. I have my doubts.

MANPADs and ATGMs from small ambush parties are fucking them up.

The Ukrainians still have an airforce - the Russians claimed they would never got off the ground, and if they did the much vaunted S400s would and short work of them.

It's by no means over, but it's clear Russia has miscalculated this.
 
the russian army is like 18 km from kiev. where is this retarded russia is losing sperging come from
They should have taken Kiev by last night. They also have to take the rest of Ukraine, which isn't as close to the border as Kiev.

Dude threatened to destroy the Internet and colony drop the ISS. Just saying, poisoning a major water source would be the least idiotic Bond villain bullshit he can think of.
If he's making such threats, it's because he's getting increasingly frustrated. It's obviously cover for something.

I wouldn't believe them to be 100% accurate, the fog of war is a real phenomena.

However, the UK have a well published doctrine on how they collect, develop and verify intelligence. What they are releasing will likely have been through this process. Which means any losses mentioned will have been verified to a sufficient standard for them to confirm. (Perhaps it's easier to verify Russia deaths than Ukrainian?)
Given their tactics, I have no problems believing the casualty reports. That, and larger nations with larger armies tend to not give a shit, while smaller nations with smaller armies tend to conserve manpower and think things through a lot more. (ie. Prussia)

My thinking is, Putin has bought into his own narrative. He believes that the Russian military is unmatched, that Ukraine is Russian and would rise up against the "Nazis".
Usually, people who spew nonsense like that would know that it's bullshit, but people with near-unlimited power in their own domains like Putin and Xi Jinping seem to lose that voice of conscience and start believing everything their propaganda says, especially since any objecting voices tend to get "silenced" in places like Russia and China.

It's not the first time Russia got itself into trouble like that, Tsar Nicholas II genuinely believed the hype surrounding his own empire, not even thinking about how it was poorly industrialized and was no match for an industrialized Germany. He entered WW1 with such miscalculations, and that mistake cost him his empire, his dynasty, his family, and his life. It seems that Putin hasn't learned from history at all.

I've said for a while, small teams with shoulder launched munitions are effective enough to blunt the Russians. If they can't win quickly, this will become messy at best and unwinnable at worst. It's a long shot for Ukraine, but if normal people decide it's worth fighting I think Putin may have fucked himself.
Especially when one side has all the motivation in the world, considering their nation was unjustly attacked, and the other side doesn't even know why they're out there, just to satisfy some old farts left over from the USSR Communist Party days. This can turn into a real shitshow for the Russians.

I hope he gets dragged like Gaddafi.
My hope is that he's forced to step down and gets exiled to Mount Athos, painting Jesus pictures for the rest of his life, but it will probably end like Gaddafi's life. That, or he gets "poisoned by the Americans" as the Russian Oligarchs pick someone else to replace him.

Losing is a push, certainly it is clear they are underperforming.
It seems more like a draw-which is embarrassing for the largest country in the world.

Plus, distance is somewhat irrelevant - question is can they take Kiev and hold it quickly. I have my doubts.
I'd have thought that they'd easily capture Kiev, then face guerilla attacks later.

MANPADs and ATGMs from small ambush parties are fucking them up.
MANPADs are an insurgent's best friend. And if the Russians can't take control of the air, then they're in it for the long haul.

The Ukrainians still have an airforce - the Russians claimed they would never got off the ground, and if they did the much vaunted S400s would and short work of them.

It's by no means over, but it's clear Russia has miscalculated this.
The Russians expected a quick and crushing victory, them getting bogged down is very surprising to me.

compared to what the US latest campaing on afganistan? the non deployment of NATO anywhere in the world?
When Russia invaded Afghanistan, it was stronger than it was today, and they still lost to some cave-dwelling miscreants with MANPADs. Now Russia is facing a stronger foe with more ties to the West, and the quick victory they expected is now becoming a slow slog through hostile territory, with a foe that is willing to die rather than surrender.
 
Ukraine should've had open-carry from the start imo.
I'm pretty sure they've never cared about anyone opely drinking booze in public.
the russian army is like 18 km from kiev. where is this retarded russia is losing sperging come from
You're missing a few things here. Ukraine will likely get steamrolled by the Russian Army. That was never in question. But they are doing way more damage to the Russian Army, especially the much vaunted Russian Tanks than anybody was expecting. Especially Putin. A lot of Russian soldiers are dying. A lot of Russian tanks are exploding. To some Z list backwater ex Soviet Republic. If Ukraine can bloody the Russians this bad using some hand me down US, British and Polish man portable Anti Tank and Anti Aircraft Missiles, what can an actual competant army do to them? This doesn't make Putin look strong. It makes him look very weak. And visible signs of weakness is a detriment in his line of work.
 
Small thing but statements from 4A games (Metro series) and STALKER devs.
FMcjOIjXsAAsNJR.jpg

4A has been relocating their studio to Malta after Donbas started to break away around 2016 - 2017 I think. They still have assets and personnel in country though.
FMXdlQYWQAQWn2a.png
 
You're missing a few things here. Ukraine will likely get steamrolled by the Russian Army. That was never in question. But they are doing way more damage to the Russian Army, especially the much vaunted Russian Tanks than anybody was expecting. Especially Putin. A lot of Russian soldiers are dying. A lot of Russian tanks are exploding. To some Z list backwater ex Soviet Republic. If Ukraine can bloody the Russians this bad using some hand me down US, British and Polish man portable Anti Tank and Anti Aircraft Missiles, what can an actual competant army do to them? This doesn't make Putin look strong. It makes him look very weak. And visible signs of weakness is a detriment in his line of work.
And of course, if the Ukrainians do enough damage while the Russians roll them over, that won't scare the other NATO countries. That would embolden them. The Ukrainians will become martyrs, and the other nations will fight just as hard, if not harder, knowing that the Russian bear can bleed. If some Z-list ex-Soviet Republic was capable of doing THAT to the Russians, just imagine what the rest of Europe can do. And since Russia didn't start this war with high morale, this is going to hurt Russia more than it will the west.

The west woke up with a shock when Russia invaded. But now, it seems like this war will end with Russia bleeding and the west laughing its ass off at the Russian bear.
 
Are you ok with the world going into WW3, which could result in god knows what from great depression to nuclear disaster, over a country like Ukraine.
The Ukraine is the second largest country in europe with over 40 million people living there. It has...or had a growing IT industry too.
 
The Ukraine is the second largest country in europe with over 40 million people living there. It has...or had a growing IT industry too.
Ukraine is probably more modern than Germany and France in terms of software and hardware development as Europe in general has a really shitty development of tech. I'll give them credit for trying to keep development in house, as opposed to just buying hardware from Asia, but they don't actually invest in it so their technology tends to still have TI83 calculator interfaces instead of smart phone style like Chinese knockoffs have because they have easy access to smart phone displays. Only in the last few years I saw Europe trending away from the calculator displays and interfaces, probably because it became so shit people stopped putting up with it.
 
And of course, if the Ukrainians do enough damage while the Russians roll them over, that won't scare the other NATO countries. That would embolden them. The Ukrainians will become martyrs, and the other nations will fight just as hard, if not harder, knowing that the Russian bear can bleed. If some Z-list ex-Soviet Republic was capable of doing THAT to the Russians, just imagine what the rest of Europe can do. And since Russia didn't start this war with high morale, this is going to hurt Russia more than it will the west.

The west woke up with a shock when Russia invaded. But now, it seems like this war will end with Russia bleeding and the west laughing its ass off at the Russian bear.
And once again Ukraine has a broad porous border with Poland. Which Russia really has no capability to interdict. So those Man Portable Missiles will be flowing in like water. And if there's one thing that GLOBOHOMO likes almost as much as neverending war, it's somebody elses war where they get to freely test out their latest and greatest toyswithout any real chance of repurcussions (for them).
 
And once again Ukraine has a broad porous border with Poland. Which Russia really has no capability to interdict. So those Man Portable Missiles will be flowing in like water. And if there's one thing that GLOBOHOMO likes almost as much as neverending war, it's somebody elses war where they get to freely test out their latest and greatest toyswithout any real chance of repurcussions (for them).
Global homo vs fourth political theorists can we released finally get some actual far right people in charge of something

Why can we just have a complex of people saying we're going to take your shift because we wanted
 
>Are you okay with the world going to war over Austria
>Are you okay with the world going to war over the Sudetenland
>Are you okay with the world over the rest of Czechoslovakia
etc etc etc. At a certain point you have to be willing to fight these assholes over the minor shit, because if you don't you'll eventually be fighting them over the majors, unless you somehow think Putin will totally stop if he gets what he wants in Ukraine

>Inb4 we should have just let Hitler have everything he wanted because then the world would magically be a totally better place etc etc

They're not almost cold war era, they're exactly cold war era, which is weird. We demonstrated conclusively years ago that those tactics are shite in a modern combat scenario (absent complete and overwhelming air superiority as well). I can only assume Putin for some reason thought the Ukranians wouldn't fight, because it was pretty clear that while NATO wouldn't be poutting boots on the ground they've been shipping ATGMs and MANPADs to the ukranians like they're going out of style, and that's a hard counter to his attempted zerg rushes.


The other problem is the morale side of it. Not just amongst the troops, but the population as a whole. it's a hell of a lot easier to absorb those kind of casualties when you can convince people it's for a good cause.
I think Putin thought this would go like the invasion of Hungary or Czechoslovakia, where Russian troops would roll in and occupy the capitol almost instantly with the Ukrainian Army either capitulating like the Czechs or outright siding with them like the Hungarians. It's too early in the offensive to really judge how the war is going for them and the fall of Kiev is a foregone conclusion, the only question being how much the Ukrainians can make the Russians bleed for it.
 
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