War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

Status
Not open for further replies.
President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

Article
 
Can someone explain why the US is giving Israel 3½ billion dollars in aid every year?
Partly treaty obligations, under the 1979 treaty between Isreal and Egypt the US guaranteed defense aid to both to keep them on an equal footing as Israel ceded a large area of territory back to Egypt in surrendering the Suez pennsiula.
 
Partly treaty obligations, under the 1979 treaty between Isreal and Egypt the US guaranteed defense aid to both to keep them on an equal footing as Israel ceded a large area of territory back to Egypt in surrendering the Suez pennsiula.
That and so Israel would have something to buy American guns and shit with, and develop farming irrigation or whatever they do.
 
At which point you really have to question how they are going to seize Kyiv quickly.

They can't attack enemy forces with precision.

Their armoured vehicles are vulnerable to easily used, shoulder launched anti-tank weapons.

They don't know who is strapped up or not, and people can and will open fire on them when they have an opportunity.

They won't, at least for some time, be able to achieve any sort of local numerical superiority, and they've already shown their training isn't up to negating that.

No element of surprise, invasion shock or other to take advantage of. People know they're coming and are getting ready.

They could try and starve the city out I guess, but then it could devolve into siege of Sarajevo tier stuff.

All these "oh the Russians aren't losing" well, they're not meeting their own objectives. The Ukrainians aren't in disarray, and see to be united in this effort rather than looking for the door. Meanwhile, Russia is attempting opposed air assaults and landings, which makes them appear either insane, overstretched or inept. They're not losing, sure, but I don't know who would call this winning.
It is all true but if you want to take the country and then integrate them then you need to spare civilians and have restraint. This does mean that the occupation will take longer and the slow and restrained intrusion will directly translate to higher russian causalities.

I mean, it they just wanted to speed-run the invasion they would just Dresden firebomb Kiev (they do have the capacity to turn all of Kiev and surrounding surburbs into a parkinglot) and be done with it but that would make the "reunification" process after the war has ended being more difficult. You can't kill a massive number of civilians and expect that things will calm down or normalize afterwards.


It took US and alliance of the willing a year to build the operational bases in Kuwait and neraby regions and send massive amount of troops, materiel and local intelligence and planning staff locally next door to Iraq, and still it took >3 weeks to take Baghdad. That is considering a conflict where NO concerns had to be taken to minimize civilian deaths.
I would give Putin 3 weeks to take Ukraine and if he keeps the death-toll for civilians :

<10.000 Awesome restraint
<100.000 Good but could be better
<1.000.000 Low ball number for when USA invades a large country.
 
Considering the fact that corruption in Chinese construction projects extends to almost everywhere, along with their army of spoiled one-child generation soldiers
If the best westoids can do to discredit the PLA is to play up old hackneyed stereotypes about only children being spoiled then I can't say I'm impressed.

Taiwan's advantage lies almost completely in its geography, it's a natural barrier of defence against an invasion. China doesn't want to invade Taiwan, and seeing how much of a pig's ear this Russian invasion of Ukraine is quickly turning into only solidifies that. Both China and Taiwan win from the current status quo, all Taiwan has to do is keep up the legal fiction that it is the Republic of China and China's hand won't be forced. It's up to Taiwan not to rock the boat in this scenario, not China.
 
It took US and alliance of the willing a year to build the operational bases in Kuwait and neraby regions and send massive amount of troops, materiel and local intelligence and planning staff locally next door to Iraq, and still it took >3 weeks to take Baghdad. That is considering a conflict where NO concerns had to be taken to minimize civilian deaths.
Operational restraints on Western (and that includes US) forces are far greater. Hence we don't lob dumb munitions into civilian buildings with zero military value.

Sure, and how long the Russian build up took behind the scenes we don't know.

We do know that the Russians lost more troops and equipment on day one than the US and UK did against Iraq in 2003.
I would give Putin 3 weeks to take Ukraine and if he keeps the death-toll for civilians :

<10.000 Awesome restraint
<100.000 Good but could be better
<1.000.000 Low ball number for when USA invades a large country.
So Putin's Russia who airdrop barrel bombs is going to cause less civilian deaths than Western nations that use entirely precision guided munitions. Got ya.
 
If the best westoids can do to discredit the PLA is to play up old hackneyed stereotypes about only children being spoiled then I can't say I'm impressed.

Taiwan's advantage lies almost completely in its geography, it's a natural barrier of defence against an invasion. China doesn't want to invade Taiwan, and seeing how much of a pig's ear this Russian invasion of Ukraine is quickly turning into only solidifies that. Both China and Taiwan win from the current status quo, all Taiwan has to do is keep up the legal fiction that it is the Republic of China and China's hand won't be forced. It's up to Taiwan not to rock the boat in this scenario, not China.
Or China could just step off their grill and be content with having the entirety of the mainland to themselves, the greedy fucks.
 
If the best westoids can do to discredit the PLA is to play up old stereotypes about only children being spoiled then I can't say I'm impressed.
The weak one-child-policy chinks may be pampered but if they defect or stop fighting they know their family/parents go stright to the organ harvesting vans. But they will still fight.

The US recruits on the other hand will mostly be posting angry rants on how China are the good guys and USA is the worst evil ever to their friend group on twitter. And then they will complain there are no dillation stations at the front-line outposts.

"What do you mean we lost the war? We posted a lot of wins on twitter."
 
Operational restraints on Western (and that includes US) forces are far greater. Hence we don't lob dumb munitions into civilian buildings with zero military value.

Sure, and how long the Russian build up took behind the scenes we don't know.

We do know that the Russians lost more troops and equipment on day one than the US and UK did against Iraq in 2003.

So Putin's Russia who airdrop barrel bombs is going to cause less civilian deaths than Western nations that use entirely precision guided munitions. Got ya.
White phosphorous kinds of kind and civilian-safe munitions? I am just saying if Putin can take Ukraine with ~1% of the civilian causalities compared to then USA invaded Iraq, becase WMD, then that is an improvement. Not good, but better.

Look, I am not pro Putin but the double standards are just rubbing me the wrong way. It is glorious and rightful when we use Fuel-Air bombs on, mostly, civilians, but when others do the exact same thing it is the worst thing ever.
The hypocrisy is suffocating.
 
White phosphorous kinds of kind and civilian-safe munitions? I am just saying if Putin can take Ukraine with ~1% of the civilian causalities compared to then USA invaded Iraq, becase WMD, then that is an improvement. Not good, but better.

Look, I am not pro Putin but the double standards are just rubbing me the wrong way. It is glorious and rightful when we use Fuel-Air bombs on, mostly, civilians, but when others do the exact same thing it is the worst thing ever.
The hypocrisy is suffocating.
Hypocrisy?
Why are you arguing with some none existent hypothetical person, no one here is arguing it's okay when we drop bombs on civilians.

The actual invasion of Iraq has 3-7k civilian casualties, all of which are tragic and awful given the unjustified nature of that war. The vast majority of the deaths occurred in the occupation, and most weren't at the hands of Western forces but due to the insurgencies which sprung up.
 
Kyiv is not on the border, it's a good distance from the Russian border, flanked by the Belarus border, and split by a river.
View attachment 3019729View attachment 3019736
Belarus is a Putin Sock Puppet. He sent part of his forces to sneak through Belarus and down onto Kyiv directly. They're the ones that are just now starting to fight over it. What clearly should have been a surprise first night decapitation move.
 
At which point you really have to question how they are going to seize Kyiv quickly.

They can't attack enemy forces with precision.

Their armoured vehicles are vulnerable to easily used, shoulder launched anti-tank weapons.

They don't know who is strapped up or not, and people can and will open fire on them when they have an opportunity.

They won't, at least for some time, be able to achieve any sort of local numerical superiority, and they've already shown their training isn't up to negating that.

No element of surprise, invasion shock or other to take advantage of. People know they're coming and are getting ready.

They could try and starve the city out I guess, but then it could devolve into siege of Sarajevo tier stuff.

All these "oh the Russians aren't losing" well, they're not meeting their own objectives. The Ukrainians aren't in disarray, and see to be united in this effort rather than looking for the door. Meanwhile, Russia is attempting opposed air assaults and landings, which makes them appear either insane, overstretched or inept. They're not losing, sure, but I don't know who would call this winning.
Numbers mean nothing if you can't supply them. Reservists are generally worse than conscripts. You're giving Ukraine way too much credit. Expectation of an invasion or assault does not in any way mean they have the ability to counter the invasion. Besides, the idea is to destabilize Ukraine, which the Russians are succeeding in doing, not annex the country.

Especially when the enemy's capital is within spitting distance of friendly (Belarusian) borders. That gives Russia an enormous advantage, and Russia is still having a tough time. Fucking Germany got within a stone's throw of Moscow in WW2 and still lost after advancing deep into Russian territory, whereas Russia is struggling to take a city that's literally within driving distance of friendly borders. It's obvious that the momentum they had when the war started was their biggest advantage, that shock and surprise that sent the West reeling in fear, and now, it's slowed down to a crawl, and the longer it lasts, the weaker Russia looks, and the more determined the Ukrainians will be to fight. Which is more bad news for Russia.
That comparison makes no sense, 4 million soldiers were used by Nazi Germany to try and take over the European territories of the Soviet Union in the beginning of the war. This invasion doesn't even have half a million people. If anything, it's Germany's invasion of Poland you should be comparing them to.

If the oligarchs get hit by the sanctions and lose their money, they'll get really pissy. They would probably get more pissed off at the sanctions than the bungling of the war. But since the war caused more sanctions to be placed on them, they might get angry at Putin for that, too.


That was before Russia's replacement rate fell at a dismal low. Even without this war getting Russians killed, Russians will eventually die out due to dismal replacement rates and rampant abortion. Back then, they could always count on the next generation to avenge their losses, but now? It doesn't look like Russia will last for that much longer.
They don't care about the sanctions, precisely because this could be the last generation.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Elim Garak
Numbers mean nothing if you can't supply them. Reservists are generally worse than conscripts.
Irregular militias picking away at the Russian backlines, killing lost or isolated soldiers are very useful and supplying them is not a problem either. They feed themselves, just need some firearms.

People need a little while to get organised and into the correct mindset, as they are now. The opportunity to avoid this has come and gone - as there's evidence of the above already happening.
Besides, the idea is to destabilize Ukraine, which the Russians are succeeding in doing, not annex the country.
We don't know Putin's end game. I think it's to install a puppet regime, but this is no different to annexation in terms of how he will need to support it given the country is full of armed people who hate Russians. Any Pro-Russian regime will fall without support, and with support and all that entails I think it could be the end of Putin's popularity.
 
I was expecting him to be more like Gihren Zabi, making grandiose speeches about the glory of all Slavs, the way Gihren spoke about the Spacenoids:

Pan-Slavism was only ever popular among the Russian aristocracy. Nowhere else, except for a brief time in Czechia. And that speech was about Zeon's effort, not about the struggle of all Spacenoids.

Irregular militias picking away at the Russian backlines, killing lost or isolated soldiers are very useful and supplying them is not a problem either. They feed themselves, just need some firearms.

People need a little while to get organised and into the correct mindset, as they are now. The opportunity to avoid this has come and gone - as there's evidence of the above already happening.

We don't know Putin's end game. I think it's to install a puppet regime, but this is no different to annexation in terms of how he will need to support it given the country is full of armed people who hate Russians. Any Pro-Russian regime will fall without support, and with support and all that entails I think it could be the end of Putin's popularity.
Click to expand...
Ukraine wants to be in Nato, Russia doesn't, so they'll eliminate Ukraine's credence as a candidate. They don't want Ukraine, at least not all of it.

Irregulars and guerrillas fight well in mountain areas, not on flat land. They'll have to stay in cities, which can be starved.
 
View attachment 3017969

Has the Russian Army ever not been a disorganized rabble with fancy equipment?
Short answer: No. Long answer: Only the dedicated professionals get the fancy equipment. Ivan Q. Public who just wants to serve his conscription term before going home gets nothing.

@LORD IMPERATOR Quote bug, but the JMSDF is quite the peacekeeping force with a pair of multi-mission destroyers that strangely look like carriers...
1645868622898.png

Considering they're F-35B capable, someone's getting ready for the Third Sino-Japanese War.
Kyiv is not on the border, it's a good distance from the Russian border, flanked by the Belarus border, and split by a river.
View attachment 3019729View attachment 3019736
Already ninja'd but the initial thrust towards Kiev was launched through Belarus, not Russia.
It doesn't matter how much you hate muh see see pee, Taiwan is still legally part of China under international law.
International Laws.jpg

I hear its illegal to launch invasions like Putin has done just now. Doesn't change the fact Putin has or that the vaunted arbiters of international law, Europe, have zero issues buying Taiwanese semiconductors.
We don't know Putin's end game. I think it's to install a puppet regime, but this is no different to annexation in terms of how he will need to support it given the country is full of armed people who hate Russians. Any Pro-Russian regime will fall without support, and with support and all that entails I think it could be the end of Putin's popularity.
He's officially demanded a demilitarization and a de-Nazification of Ukraine. I guess he thinks its the 1940's or something, but its safe to say a friendly puppet regime is the minimum of what he wants out of this invasion.
 
Saw on the news that facebook and twatter has denied the Russian government of posting anything + there are some demonstrations against it.
Oh yeah, you totally got them! It's a complete burn!
People just seems to not know what war is, and their opinion is totally irrelevant. As they would just get plummeted down.

The US offered to get the Ukrainian presidents out of the country, which he denied. Then went on to hold a speech about how this is so horrible.
Less talking, more fighting retard.

I feel bad for the Ukrainian people, as this seems to be the people in power's fault. I have no trust in that Ukraine is going to win with "power of friendship". And it would be for the best to just give Ukraine to Russia without fight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back