Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2022): Thread 1 - Ukrainian Liars vs Russian Liars with Air and Artillery Superiority

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How well is the combat this going for Russia?

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Blyatskrieg

    Votes: 46 6.6%

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐ A well planned strike with few faults

    Votes: 45 6.5%

  • ⭐⭐⭐ Competent attack with some upsets

    Votes: 292 42.1%

  • ⭐⭐ Worse than expected

    Votes: 269 38.8%

  • ⭐ Ukraine takes back Crimea 2022

    Votes: 42 6.1%
  • Total voters
    694
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Wy4M said:
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"... there's footage from Kherson where the exact thing happened that everyone said would happen if untrained civilians attack soldiers with Molotov cocktails"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MetZloUo2f8 (need login)

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Fuck man. I know that machine guns on APCs pack quite the punch but it never ceases to impress me how easily they turn humans into hamburger meat.
 
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Spicey McHaggis said:
One of those Il-76s may actually be true, early on we had a video here of what looked like one going down in a flat spin, which is a death sentence. Who knows though.
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In the initial liberation of the Donbass back in 2014, the human forces took out an Il-76 that the coup regime was sending into an airport with troops after they had been specifically warned not to. I would assume it is footage from that incident.
 
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Cold Root Beer said:
Russian armored column is beginning an incursion into Kiev suburbs (Borodianka) from the western approach (putting that 120mm to work on an adjacent building to clear the urban area as they advance):

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lol this idiot with a phone camera, they know you're there and they're shooting at you, what do you do you stay right there at the windows where they can continue seeing you and shooting at you. lucky as fuck he didn't get ventilated or turned into hamburger by that shot
 
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Übertroon said:
You're partaking in some serious historical determinism. The UK was pretty much a hair's breath from starting peace negotiations post the fall of France. Lord Halifax was the favorite to succeed Chamberlain and personally wanted to begin peace negotiations through Mussolini. The American ambassador to the UK at the time, Joseph Kennedy, also urged the British to seriously consider peace. For the eastern front the Soviets were very close to breaking and were actually in secret peace talks with Germany from 1942 to 1943. With or without the UK out of the war in 1940 it is possible for the Soviet Union and Germany to have agreed on a peace with would see Germany gaining a stronger foothold in eastern europe.
Of course the question becomes what the consequences would be of a European continent dominated by Germany, but which would still have the UK to its west and the Soviet Union to its east seeking vengeance.
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The original poster I replied to talked about a 'war against the entire world' which presumably means the war at the time the Americans joined. Once the US entered the war, it was no longer a close one.

Obviously a war just between Germany and the Soviet Union would have been more tense. But that hypothetical war is not the one I'm talking about.
 
Matt Damon said:
Hey, maybe all this economic chaos before the midterms in the US will usher in a red wave of Republican congressmen who will proceed to do precisely dick.
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No matter how bad a president is, Congress always has the lower approval rating. Congress will only get better once they get jailed for taking lobbyist money.
 
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Cold Root Beer said:
Russian armored column is beginning an incursion into Kiev suburbs (Borodianka) from the western approach (putting that 120mm to work on an adjacent building to clear the urban area as they advance):

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If by 'clear the urban area' you mean 'shoot the azov guy holding an RPG in the room over from the one the azov guy filming is in'.
 
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@Iwasamwillbe I am struck by the reply bug, so I am pinging you.

Understandable. What do you say, from personal experience, are the opinions of the Muscovite Rus' on the Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine and the "Russian Spring" that happened there post-Euromaidan?
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Well-meaning but misguided. An issue that the Ukrainean government should have solved via diplomacy (see "Minsk agreements") but chose to stubbornly shell the separatists' position for 8 years instead, in full accordance with its "Russians are the devil" nationalist agenda.

Again, there are reasons for this behavior. Ukraine, for the majority of its history, remained a part of somebody else's territory and therefore has difficulties with self-determination. Some (see Putin's speech before invasion) claim it is an entirely artificial construct, going as far as to claim it does not have its own language (Ukrainean being a maimed Russian with funny words. Some of them do sound hilarious to a Russian ear). The easiest path to national identity is to define oneself against a common enemy, which was conveniently close. The problem was exacerbated by early Ukrainean attempts to force the Ukrainean language in Russian schools that were perceived as ham-fisted at best and malicious at worst.

The shared legacy of the USSR means there are Russian people (or diasporas) on the territories of most former republics, but both Donetsk demanding more autonomy and Ukraine proper refusing to grant it out of fear it would be used as a Russian tool to block its attempts at nation-building and progress led to a spiral of growing animosity that finally burst out of control.

P. S. I am not denying that Donetsk was used as a convenient proxy war to keep Ukraine out of NATO by Russia, it was the model of a frozen conflict. But the tools for de-escalation were there all the time and no Ukrainean president ever reached for them despite Zelensky getting his current seat by promising a peaceful resolution to the issue.
 
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