War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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haha man we do a lil' war crimes baby

this is a war crime right?

This seems like it'd be a war crime
Kind of. Russia is a party to Additional Protocol II, which states:

Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.

However, their 2001 regulations--the most recent I could find--are based on Protocol I and read:

especially dangerous objects are nuclear power stations, dykes, dams whose destruction may release dangerous destructive factors and consequent severe losses among the civilian population. These objects shall not become the object of attack even when they are military objectives if attacking them may result in the above-mentioned consequences.

An especially dangerous object shall lose its immunity (status) if it provides regular, significant and direct support for the enemy military operations (for dams and dykes, it is only possible if they are used for other than their normal functions), moreover, if such an attack is the only feasible way to terminate such support.


So under Russia's municipal law, their forces would not be punished for attacking a nuclear power plant because the nuclear power plant is providing electricity to Ukrainian Nazis. But under international law, the Russian Federation would be liable and we might get to string some officers up after rebuilding civilization.
 
Oh boy, here come 'Murica
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So I've come to a conclusion that either the artillerymen are stupid, or whoever ordered (and forced) them to bomb the plant is stupid. Who in their right mind think bombing an active Nuclear Plant is a good idea? I know this is the armchair general of me speaking, but a frontal assault is a much better option since the risk is still going to be much much lower than a nuclear fallout

But then I realized that frontal assault can only be successful if you have enough troops with enough morale to overwhelm the defender. The fact that the Russian didn't chose that option seems to be that they didn't have enough troops...or the troops they have are very demoralized. Or maybe it's even both

A fire is reportedly still burning in Europe’s largest nuclear power plant located in Zaporizhzhia, according to Ukraine’s State Emergency Services.

Andriy Tuz, a spokesperson for the plant appeared on Telegram earlier in the morning around 3am local time, saying: “There is a real threat of a nuclear danger at the biggest nuclear power plant in Europe. We demand that they stop the heavy weapons fire at the energy blocks of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.”

Ukrainian emergency services are saying Russian troops are preventing them from extinguishing a fire that continues to burn at a nuclear power plant after it was struck by shelling.

In an update published to its official Telegram account at 4am local time, the State Emergency Services said:

"The occupiers are not allow the SES units [Ukrainian public rescue teams] to start eliminating the consequences of the fire.”

The agency said that one of the buildings of the plant’s training complex “continues to burn”, adding that “the fire covered 3, 4, 5 floors of a five-storey building.”
 
So I've come to a conclusion that either the artillerymen are stupid, or whoever ordered (and forced) them to bomb the plant is stupid. Who in their right mind think bombing an active Nuclear Plant is a good idea? I know this is the armchair general of me speaking, but a frontal assault is a much better option since the risk is still going to be much much lower than a nuclear fallout

But then I realized that frontal assault can only be successful if you have enough troops with enough morale to overwhelm the defender. The fact that the Russian didn't chose that option seems to be that they didn't have enough troops...or the troops they have are very demoralized. Or maybe it's even both
This is similar to where I was going with the "bombing the shit out of cities with artillery that you intend to be residing in next week" thought. There's aerial shit (Dresden), there's siege shit (Stalingrad), and there's "sending the government fleeing for their lives" shit (Paris), but I am not quite plugging in where this current bombardment works on any kind of timeline.

Not to say fucking up the nuke plant.

You break it, you gotta pay for it.

And the amortization on that shit is long.
 
I've seen footage from the beach of Odessa showing approaching Russian ships the other day. I've only been to sea once when we visited my grandparents there when I was still a kid, I remember playing on the beach just like that one. Well, beach is a beach I suppose... Anyway, to me this is personal.
My brother there joined local militia while I'm stuck in Russia where I've been living most of my life. Now I wonder if I'll even get to meet my nephews, I hoped to visit my relatives there sometime.

I'm at a loss. I knew Putin was a maniac, but I never expected this.
 
If it did, 43 tons of highly radioactive dust would instantly be released into the atmosphere. None of the so-called protective sarcophagi built over the remains of reactor no. 4 would have the slightest success stopping the distribution of the poisonous dust.
Wasnt the new bigass sarcophagus supposed to prevent that?
Even if there was a nuclear meltdown most of the radiation would be thrust into Russia itself so it would be another thing to add to the list of terrible decisions their government has made in the past eight days
Didnt it go west last time? why would it move to russia now? looking at the map the plant its right in the dnieper river which goes straight into the black sea and from there to the eastern mediterranean, tho by then it might be too diluted to be any real danger
The upside is I’m reading these things are a little “battle proof” by design
Did they add the containment buildings after chernobyl? if not how is it battleproof?
Link to these maps?
 
Good news
The mayor of Enerhodar, a town located about 150km south-east of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, has said fighting at the plant has stopped, according to BBC Ukrainian, citing a local broadcaster.

The news comes after the plant reportedly sustained several hours of heavy shelling and a fire which broke out on the third, fourth and fifth floor of a building at the complex, according to Ukrainian emergency officials.
By The Guardian liveblog

Suffice to say, whatever good PR Putin gained/has left is gone now
 
Oh boy, here come 'Murica
View attachment 3040660
Brutus fell on his sword during the civil war that erupted after Caesar's death. Stauffenberg got caught, failed, and executed. Neither would motivate a Russian Flag officer to commit treason. What would is to give them Benedict Arnold deals.
 
Wasnt the new bigass sarcophagus supposed to prevent that?

Didnt it go west last time? why would it move to russia now? looking at the map the plant its right in the dnieper river which goes straight into the black sea and from there to the eastern mediterranean, tho by then it might be too diluted to be any real danger

Did they add the containment buildings after chernobyl? if not how is it battleproof?

Link to these maps?
Oh, they're in the link I provided right above the screenies, pardner. Under "real time monitoring".

The direct links are https://remap.jrc.ec.europa.eu/Simple.aspx and https://remap.jrc.ec.europa.eu/Advanced.aspx. You may need to accept their site's terms before it'll show you the map. Good luck and happy viewing! 🤝☢️🗺️
 
Demoralised Russian soldiers tell of anger at being ‘duped’ into war

Videos of PoWs used for Ukraine propaganda, but there is an authentic sense of regret among Russian servicemen

Five Russian soldiers sit in a brick building. They are blindfolded: the latest prisoners to be captured inside Ukraine. A Ukrainian voice interrogates them. “Speak,” he says to the group’s Russian officer. What message would he like to send to his soldiers and to Russians back at home?

“Frankly speaking, they tricked us,” the officer replies, referring to his military superiors sitting in Moscow. “Everything we were told was a fake. I would tell my guys to leave Ukrainian territory. We’ve got families and children. I think 90% of us would agree to go home.”

The three-minute video was filmed under conditions of duress. The soldiers are evidently scared. And yet there are numerous similar interviews with Russian captives which have been circulating on Ukrainian social media channels, expressing similar sentiments.

Asked what he would tell his commanders, one said bluntly: “They are faggots”. Another phrase frequently used is oni obmanuli nas: they duped us. Eight days after Vladimir Putin’s invasion it is clear that a significant number of his servicemen are demoralised and reluctant to fight. Some have given themselves up.

Others have abandoned their vehicles and have set off back towards the Russian border on foot, lugging their weapons and kitbags, videos suggest. These episodes do not mean that the Kremlin will fail in its attempts to conquer Ukraine, as its tactics shift to brutal shelling of civilians.

But low morale among invading troops might be one reason why Russia’s blitzkrieg plan to overwhelm Ukraine appears not to have progressed at the speed Putin would have wanted. The assumption in Moscow was that the operation would be swift and successful. Soldiers were given food and fuel supplies for only two or three days, the videos suggest.

The Kremlin also appears to have had a totally fantastical idea of the reception they would get. Several prisoners of war said they had been assured Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators. Russian forces were expecting flowers and cheers, not bullets and bombs, they said.

“Some of them thought they were on military exercises. They didn’t anticipate resistance,” Artem Mazhulin, a 31-year-old English teacher from Kharkiv said. “A lot are conscripts born in 2002 or 2003. We are talking about 19-year-old and 20-year-old boys.”

He added: “Since 2014 the Russian government has been brainwashing its population with propaganda. They try and make Russia believe Ukraine is not a real country and say fascist monsters have captured it.”

Mazhulin said his uncle and aunt, Viktor and Valentina, had talked with Russian soldiers when they rolled past their house in Kupiansk, in north-east Ukraine, close to the border. The soldiers explained they were looking for Banderivtsi, or followers of the second world war Ukrainian nationalist leader Stepan Bandera.

“My uncle said to them: ‘Where the fuck do you see Banderivtsi?’ My aunt told them to get off her flowerbeds,” Mazhulin recounted. “They called my uncle Batya (Dad) and chatted with him about pigeon breeding, his hobby. Then they drove off on their tank.”

In a video address on Thursday Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelesksiy pressed home the same message: that Putin has sent his invading forces into Ukraine without an understandable mission. “They are demoralised. They are doomed,” he said, telling enemy soldiers to “go home”.

Ukraine claims to have killed several thousand Russian troops. This figure may be an exaggeration, but on Wednesday, however, even the Kremlin admitted 498 of its servicemen had died, with 1,591 wounded.

Alex Kovzhun, a one-time adviser to Ukraine’s former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko, said Russian soldiers could be divided into two sorts: “There are the young conscripts who are scared shitless. And there are career guys who have fought in Syria and the Donbas.”

Kovzhun said the Russian general staff had thought the invasion would be “easy peasy”, and a repeat of the operations to seize Crimea in 2014, or their recent deployment to Kazakhstan, which were largely unopposed. Instead, Ukrainian civilians had stood in front of enemy tanks, blocked armoured columns with their bare hands and had sung the national anthem in front of twitchy Russian guards.

“They shout expletives in front of armed people. I’ve seen the Russian faces. They are very uncomfortable because it’s not what they expected. They were told Ukrainians were imprisoned by mythic Nazis,” he added.

Nick Reynolds, a research analyst for land warfare at the defence and security think tank the Royal United Services Institute (Rusi), said the Ukrainian figure for killed enemy soldiers was likely to be a more reliable than the Russian estimate, adding that the footage of engagements involving Russian forces available online suggested the toll the Kremlin was willing to admit to had already been exceeded.

Nevertheless, he added, there is little to show how the Ukrainian authorities have arrived at their own total. The several thousand dead tally could itself be a slight exaggeration, he said.

There is no doubt Ukraine is utilising the discomfort of captured soldiers for propaganda purposes. Several videos show young men calling their mothers back in Russia, who have no idea their sons are fighting in Ukraine. The mothers typically break down. The Ukrainian authorities have opened a hotline for worried Russian relatives, in another PR scoop.

Nonetheless, there is an authentic sense that many Russian servicemen regret ever having come to Ukraine, a journey that has ended for some in death or disillusionment. One interrogator asks a prisoner: “So, what do you think, are you soldiers of the strong Russian army or cannon fodder?”

“We are cannon fodder,” the PoW replies.

“Was it worth it?” the interrogator says, by way of follow-up.

“No,” the prisoner says.
 
Watching Russia fumble around like this I'm beginning to understand exactly why Hitler thought the Soviet Union would collapse if they merely kicked the door in after watching them blunder into Finland. Obviously we know exactly how that ended up for the Nazis and I'm not saying it would be an effortless NATO victory if you somehow removed nukes from the equation, but if the US military has fallen a ways since Desert Storm the Russians have fallen a long, long way from Seven Days to the River Rhine.
 
Watching Russia fumble around like this I'm beginning to understand exactly why Hitler thought the Soviet Union would collapse if they merely kicked the door in after watching them blunder into Finland. Obviously we know exactly how that ended up for the Nazis and I'm not saying it would be an effortless NATO victory if you somehow removed nukes from the equation, but if the US military has fallen a ways since Desert Storm the Russians have fallen a long, long way from Seven Days to the River Rhine.
Sheer spirit and determination saved Russians in WWII, something Hitler underestimated. Same spirit and determination Putin is now facing in Ukraine, while his own troops don't even know what they're fighting for.
 
Watching Russia fumble around like this I'm beginning to understand exactly why Hitler thought the Soviet Union would collapse if they merely kicked the door in after watching them blunder into Finland. Obviously we know exactly how that ended up for the Nazis and I'm not saying it would be an effortless NATO victory if you somehow removed nukes from the equation, but if the US military has fallen a ways since Desert Storm the Russians have fallen a long, long way from Seven Days to the River Rhine.
It's a bad idea for outside troops to venture into Russia, and a bad idea for Russian troops to venture outside.
 
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