Russian Invasion of Ukraine (2022): Thread 1 - Ukrainian Liars vs Russian Liars with Air and Artillery Superiority

[Simpadoo]

Ukrainians treated their Russian ethnic minority like we treated Niggers. They literally shelled them daily for 7 years. All they had to do was stop and promise Russia no NATO missiles on Ukrainian soil. They did niether.

Immune to accountability and the whole culture centered around them? How progressive!

 

[hooboy]

good morning NAM, what's cooking?

gru fucked kevin

 

[Penis Drager]

One has to admit that the Ukrainians have some pretty powerful material to work with. They've even gotten a lot of internationalist lefties edited about the idea of patriotism and strong borders.

Just look at how the people in Kherson received their Russian "liberators". Almost every frame is prime propaganda material.

Spoiler: Kherson

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And this works. It works even domestically. Just look at how many people are trying to sign up for the Ukrainian militia in Zaporizhzhia.

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Ukraine's propaganda machine has always been pretty on-point.
This was posted a couple days ago; but it was one without subtitles enabled.
It kinda sucked back then, but with subtitles enabled it's actually fantastic as wartime propaganda:

Turn on subtitles or your mom will rape you or something.

 

[Matt Damon]

Remember when Twitter was CERTAIN that Labor was going to mop the floor with the Conservatives? Same energy.

Come on, people that think Iron Man is real probably can’t give you a good glimpse of reality

Sure, things could go terribly wrong for either side at any time and there's little trustworthy information.

But as of this moment, there's no reason whatsoever to believe the Russians are "losing". The assumption from the very beginning was always that the Russians would win and nothing credible has come to light so far that ought to persuade anyone otherwise.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Russia has pretty obviously changed the plan from the initial assault as they moved to massing their army in strategic points and cutting off major centers of resistance ala classic Soviet doctrine instead of the retarded American larp they opened with. Weren't you the guy who cried and said he would leave yesterday because the Putin shills were being mean?

I believe I said the putin shills were retards. Still true today. Everyone on team Putin is a faggot.

 

[Simpadoo]

Napoleon III didn't leave because he was getting his ass kicked in Europe. While one of the big reasons was Prussia's growing power, the bigger two reasons were 1. that the United States had just gotten out of the American Civil War and had a giant new army ready to enforce the Monroe Doctrine and 2. Emperor Maximilian pissed off both the liberals of Mexico, by being a foreign monarch, and the conservatives of Mexico, by being a reform minded liberal who was mostly concerned with improving the lives of Mexico's poor.

Maximilian losing is probably the greatest tragedy to ever befall Mexico. They traded a liberal reformist who would have been succeeded by the House of Iturbide, a Mexican family, for a century and a half of unstable kleptocrats, civil war, and eventually the drug trade. A similar story in Brazil, though that one is even more tragic and inexcusable.

Maximilian would have pozzed Mexico even faster than Juarez. I do like Iturbide’s trayectory, since he did achieve Mexico’s Independence without a war, but ultimately he lost for x or y reasons, left like a punk then got executed when he returned. He lost, which is the only sin that counts in History.

Good riddance to Maximilian, a 19th century redditor.

Edit: CW ended in 1865. Sorry.

 

[MrJokerRager]

I'm as anti /pol/fag as you can be, but to boil this all down to PUTIN BAD is asinine. People have dug up policy papers from influential think tanks talking about how to isolate and provoke Russia from 5 years ago. Old clips have been unearthed of Lindsey Gram and John McCain going to Ukraine talking about how they were going to arm them to go on the offensive against Russia.

Russia has been put into a position for a long time even if they wanted to drop the Soviet mentality, the US would not allow them to integrate into the West for fear of emboldening a self sufficient Europe. Europe is effectively our bitch, and a big reason for that is the fear of the big scary fag hating commie bear. If Europe could get along with the bear, they would have an unprecedented access to natural resources that could be trucked and piped right to Germany. And not only would Russia cease to be a military threat, but could become a cornerstone in European defense. No need for big bro USA when you now have your new reformed bf Ivan to protect you.

Yes this war was ultimately unnecessary, but so was the US deciding to fuck around in Russia's backyard. No wonder Mexico maintains a strict neutrality position in terms of geo-politics, lest the Northern Gringo decide to Manifest Destiny again over a Chinese naval base.

If what you say is true and it does make sense as well.

Then the realistic long term goal all along was to keep the Europoors as America's favorite vacation spot for libtards who hate their parents.

As some dude was saying a short while ago in this thread about Germany spending on its military, Germany of now is probably at the same military rank where the Ottomans were in the lead up to World War 1 as the "Sick Man of Europe" and they died out in the end. Germany will not be stronk again unless it tells Uncle Sam to fuck off and stops sucking its cock.

Also if everyone hasn't noticed yet lol, where are the conservatives lol. The liberals and neoliberals and neoconservatives are all baying for blood. Where are the conservatives lol, yes silenced out by the media machine.

There was more ideological diversity in the 1920s and 1930s era of American than there is now. Since the 1950s roughly, its been one way of life to obey overall.

 

[Moths]

Can you believe in a war torn country the facist russians bombed a muh 5 bajillion memorial apparently
and now the grandpa black ops super operators have shown up

 

[Saleh]

Napoleon III didn't leave because he was getting his ass kicked in Europe. While one of the big reasons was Prussia's growing power, the bigger two reasons were 1. that the United States had just gotten out of the American Civil War and had a giant new army ready to enforce the Monroe Doctrine and 2. Emperor Maximilian pissed off both the liberals of Mexico, by being a foreign monarch, and the conservatives of Mexico, by being a reform minded liberal who was mostly concerned with improving the lives of Mexico's poor.

Maximilian losing is probably the greatest tragedy to ever befall Mexico. They traded a liberal reformist who would have been succeeded by the House of Iturbide, a Mexican family, for a century and a half of unstable kleptocrats, civil war, and eventually the drug trade. A similar story in Brazil, though that one is even more tragic and inexcusable.

Maximilian was at the wrong time of history and didn't had the will to be a proper puppet to Napoleon lll.

Mexico was fucked anyways with how aristocratic and dependant on Spain's guidance the whole system was and it was set up that way to crumble once the country was independent.

Mexico has always been a direct and indirect dictatorship until recently but the political class is rotten to the core and they desperately need good leaders.

 

[Mussi]

Maximilian would have pozzed Mexico even faster than Juarez. I do like Iturbide’s trayectory, since he did achieve Mexico’s Independence without a war, but ultimately he lost for x or y reasons, left like a punk then got executed when he returned. He lost, which is the only sin that counts in History.

Good riddance to Maximilian, a 19th century redditor.

BTW, Civil war ended in 1861 and the taking of Mexico by the frogs happened in 1863. Oops!

The American Civil War ended in 1865 you fucking retard. You either don't realize or don't care that the average Mexican in the 1860s was living life like a serf, so trying to improve those conditions so you can rule over a stable country isn't being a redditor, it's having more than two brain cells to rub together.

I believe I said the putin shills were retards. Still true today. Everyone on team Putin is a faggot.

I really want to know what brain parasite you people have to have to think people who believe Russia will eventually beat Ukraine in a war are Putin shills.

 

[hooboy]

higher salaries + improved quality of life = globohomo

globohomo = not based + cucked + soy + reddit

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

Wonder why Ukraine's propaganda machine seems so strong these days?
Here's the zenith of Russian Propaganda right here:

Edit: Fuck YouTube:
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Edit part 2: wrong word because dumb.

I see what you have, but I have to link the superior version.

I wonder, if Rasputin going to get Boney M cancelled? That would be terrible.

 

[Matt Damon]

Send (XMR) Monero so that the Ukrainian can buy food and medicine, fiat money is not used, alternative payment methods are needed for the Ukrainian people.
XMR is Untraceable and goes to the Ukrainian online wallet used by the Ukrainian people.
we have to stop WW3.
XMR Address:
45LT2hCE7Xr9xk3CGWbkNFBs8NVwYXZcy257FzVzrHCwHripZBti38ScBEsz8DCM9yEBGSkRX5KrEUQ2BzUsjiW9BDxsSdu

Sorry, gotta save money to counter the rising fuel and food prices.

 

[3-2-1836]

Absolutely wrong on that one.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v2_cou_us_rule59

Unlike Drumpf I concede.

 

[make_it_so]

Okay, after going thru almost 100 pages...

Germany castrated itself in the 1990s

West Germany and East Germany had big strong armies through the Cold War

After reunification, Germany didn't really see a need for a strong army (Cold War was over, Soviets were no longer on the front door step). More importantly, Germany needed money to basically rebuild the entire half of the country that used to be East Germany, and slashing the defense budget helped give them the necessary capital. I traveled through Germany in 2005, and even then the differences between the two halves of the country was like night and day.

Seeing as people keep accusing this thread as having a bias, I had an idea.

Let's wargame out some strategies for the Ukraine that don't involve magical thinking (NATO intervening, Ukraine managing to indefinitely conventionally repulse the Russian offense, Russia just giving up apropos of nothing).

I'll start: If I was commanding Ukraine, I'd accept that the west and NATO will not be able to seriously help or make any real impact. So, instead I'd go max scorched earth, Iraqi Army style. As the situation looks bleaker, I'd start blowing the pipelines and igniting the natural gas wells. The Russians and the west would both panic in chaos at the action, and it could result in some interesting political outcomes on both ends. If nothing else, it would be a nice "Fuck you" to Russia even as they succeed in their takeover.

Otherwise, I'd start caching weapons and supplies and organizing militia and guerilla elements to conduct irregular warfare Afgani-style, rather than continue to fight conventionally where the loss is practically guaranteed.

What strategies does everyone else have?

I think what the Ukrainians should do (and should've been doing from day 1) is try to stage a fighting retreat across the Dnipier and form a defensive holding position there, while also making use of guerrilla elements where possible to sabotage and strain the Russian supply lines. Basically, make the Russians' march into the country as costly as possible, and make as much use out of all the Javelins and NLAWs the West has been supplying. While probably not able to win outright, it would bleed the Russians hard enough to make continuing the campaign not worth it, creating a stalemate, and conditions to finally hold negotiations from a position of relative strength. Of course, again, this is probably what they should've done from the beginning. Since they've instead been trying to hold ground in the east, they've allowed themselves to have both the mass of their fighting forces and their capital to get surrounded, making their position in any future negotiations significantly weaker.

Muh democracy:

Ukraine is consistently listed as one of the most corrupt countries on Earth, and the Ukrainians have committed their fair share of mistreatment of minorities (mainly Russians) if the reports are to be believed. This conflict has nothing to do with democracy and self-determination, this is all about simple international power politics.

The incident was covered at length by a chap called bigeye on arrse. He's in country. He knows the bods who were hit, Ex-Marine, Ex-SF. He was told by Sky initially that it was a jumpy Ukranian militia. They then changed the official narrative as even he said (to paraphrase) it would be bad PR.

He's got combat experience and he's right there in the thick of it. You can find his posts on arrse if you want to read for yourself. Consider as well that arrse is using every opportunity to paint Putin as a madman and the Russian forces as baby-raping barbarians, I think it's fair to say there's a very good chance of what he says is true as it completely goes against their narrative. You aren't allowed to show any support for Putin at all nor bring up any political commentary about how we all got in to this situation (well, Russia/Ukraine).

He's a bit shaken up as his friends came very close to death, but it wasn't a deadly ambush (even though people are lucky to be alive - I'm not trivialising it). The fact that his version of events has been accepted (when it makes for bad PR for Ukraine at a time when they have all but taken their side) gives it weight in my opinion. He's a highly respected member of arrse which gives it credence as well. Who knows?

Anyway, he was told by SKY it was Ukie militia at first, and it's not hard to see why they changed that account of events considering the wider propaganda war at play here. You're not likely to get a more accurate and honest account of events, when it's from a credible source on the ground near to the exact event. All things considered I'm happy to believe him. Not the Ruskies this time, but the Ukies. He also personally said that he finds it highly unlikely it was the Ruskies, on balance of probabilities, so there is that as well.

Do you have a direct link to his post?

idk I thought I should post this

I guess the Ukrainians aren't big fans of the Killstream.

After what they did to the AN-225, they deserve it.

Wasn't it the Ukrainians that shelled the hanger, though? Poor Mryia was just an innocent victim caught in the crossfire.

How is CRP not dead yet?

Pretty sure he and his family have fled the country.

https://archive.ph/g0RaU

LOL, does this mean that the "anti-tank weapons" they also pledged to give are a bunch of outdated RPG's and Malutka ATGM's left over from East German armories as well?
This suggests to me that all their public declarations aside, the Germans are still really worried about their gas getting cut off - in fact, isn't that what the Russians have already done?

New Vaush hot take.

I've read two of Chris-chan's letters from jail and this is the most retarded, nonsensical pile of garbage text I've ever laid eyes on.

This is clearly the action of a nation that's winning the war.
Fucking child soldiers, Jesus Christ dear God in Heaven.

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The picture says it's a Mi-24P and vid says Mi-35

Probably two completely different shoot downs. Remember that the Ukrainians claimed two Hinds today.

oopsie doopsie

Little Marco must be aiming for a 2024 Presidential run - that's the only explanation I can come up with.

Pro-Kremlin Rapper Teams Up With Russian Army on New Clothing Line​

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https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/05/28/pro-kremlin-rapper-teams-up-with-russian-army-to-release-clothing-line-a65775

A friendly reminder that not all of the cringe in this war is coming the Ukrainian side.

Hell even then, the US still lost people and helicopters doing them. Sometimes even an illiterate goat fucker gets lucky.

I'll never forget that horrible incident in Afghanistan where we lost something like 80 SEAL's that were loaded up in a Chinook to one guy firing an RPG-7.

The US hasn't really fought any country on somewhat equal footing since WW2, and in that, the US had major numerical advantages where they actually counted.

Disagree - Korea was a really hard slog that ended in a stalemate, and while not nearly as advanced as the U.S. the NVA in both 1968 and 1972 was still a formidably equipped and professionally organized army.

Presented without comment.

Okay, I'll give the Russkies credit - while their military efforts are underwhelming, their shitposting efforts are grade A.

Wat? No, he pushed the Chinks back over the Yalu River and wanted to bomb them right there and then but Truman was a pussy and was scared of Stalin doing the same, as Russia was still friends with the CCP at the time.

Probably the wisest move - the Soviets had just obtained the bomb a few years earlier, so escalating would've brought the Soviets in as well - which not only means a nuclear exchange but also the Red Army storming across Europe.

Studying German language and history is waste of time because the holocaust happened. Big brain hours.

Are there any members of the "Skeptic" community that didn't turn out to be massive retards?

 

[Saleh]

The American Civil War ended in 1865 you fucking retard. You either don't realize or don't care that the average Mexican in the 1860s was living life like a serf, so trying to improve those conditions so you can rule over a stable country isn't being a redditor, it's having more than two brain cells to rub together.

I don't know if America would have been okay with Mexico being a future industrialized nation.

Whoever was going to lead Mexico in that direction would have been fucked over by America (and in fact it was).

 

[Simpadoo]

Its a false comparison to compare this to the Cuban Missile Crisis. The US and NATO does not stage nuclear weapons in the Baltics or even in the Pacific which would have inched nuclear weapons closer to Russian territory and hasn't stated they intended to position nuclear weapons in Ukraine. That narrative has been repeated as a caucus belli over and over but is a weak excuse based on what ifs. Ground based ballistic missiles or air delivered nuclear weapons aren't even needed in an age with SSBNs. NATO could have just put nuclear weapons in Poland if they really wanted that reach.

It’s been said before but It’s no different than if Mexico or Canada decided to join a military alliance with China or Russia, which is what the Cuba missile crisis was about. Also, bear in mind that the missiles in Cuba was a response to the USA putting missiles in Turkey.

Venezuela has gone full retard but even they aren’t stupid enough to allow Chinese or Russian troops in their country for fear of the Monroe Doctrine’s consequences.

Note how no neighbor of the USA is ever allowed to grow militarily. Why is that? Mexico can’t even invade Guatemala. Brazil is pretty stronk but it’s a joke when compared to the US.

Russians have been saying that Ukraine being part of NATO is a direct threat since the 90s.

Bottom line: the USA wouldn’t accept that shit from anybody but expects Russia to take it up the ass.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

At this point I still think it is very much probable that Ukraine will "win" if you define it as the current government standing and is still located in Kyiv. Even if Russia does win this will be a text book case of winning the war but losing the peace.

 

[Mussi]

I don't know if America would have been okay with Mexico being a future industrialized nation.

Whoever was going to lead Mexico in that direction would have been fucked over by America (and in fact it was).

Well, at least Mexicans could have been satisfied in knowing that they picked the person with their best interests in mind over the wannabe dictator and that they were fucked in the ass by America one more time than they were in our world while they wait their turn to be beheaded by narcos.

 

[76LD910]

This right here is the Death knell for the Ukraine. Story is from 2 days ago.
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Even before the war Ukraine's population was shrinking. You put this offer out there and anyone that can walk is going to be heading for the borders even if the area they are in isn't impacted by the war. If Russia was smart they would start a protected bus service west.
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Russia's population metrics have been fucked since the turn of the millennium as well, it's never went as far negative as Ukraine but it has always been at slightly above or below 0%.

And consider that a decent portion of Russian speaking Ukrainian emigrants likely left for Russia in that time span, that still didn't counteract the negative effect of people emigrating out of Russia. The only thing propping up Russia's numbers compered to Ukraine is the immigration of central Asians who are even worse off than Ukrainians.

This has been a subject of debate for over a decade. Some political annalists even went as far as to predicted shortly before the taking of Crimea that if it was going to happen it would have to be soon, because Russian leadership knows the demographics are not in their favor long term. Every year delayed is another group of retirees no longer contributing to the economy and men growing out of peak military age, and a smaller pool to replace them.

If Ukraine turns into a protracted conflict and Russia takes a massive slide economically the number of Russians wanting to leave will likely increase and the number of Ukrainians who might have emigrated to Russia due to the conflict might be surprisingly low.