Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[HarryHowler]

But yeah, Janeway was a proto-woke character.* She was, at least conceptually, a 90s female executive. Her character is supposed to be tough and no-nonsense, but when that attitude is applied poorly, it comes across as insecure and controlling. Nazi Janeway was just regular Janeway up a few notches.

Voyager kind of had that proto-wokeness issue with some of the other characters, namely Chakotay (who was a Native American and thus all spiritual and enlightened) and Torres (who was always written as being right to be angry at everyone because she was picked on because of her gender and being half-Klingon).

However, at least Chakotay got shoved into the background after a couple of seasons, while Torres got retooled into someone who realized she needed to grow the fuck up and stop blaming her problems on everyone else. With Janeway they pretty much wrote themselves into a corner, since having their lead character drop the "strong women" schtick halfway through the show would have gotten them flayed alive by the very feminists they were trying to court.

And don't forget Guinan is going to be killed/injured by a cop in 2024 which makes Earth a fascist dictatorship in the 24th century. Who's willing to bet Kurtzman and his kike friends are going to fuck up portraying the evils of fascism and go full Starship Troopers accidentally making a fascist nation look better than the dysgenic democracy we live in.

Anyone remember when Sisko and Bashir accidentally fucked up history in the 2020s, then managed to set it right within the space of the same two-parter? Old Man Picard, on the other hand, needs a whole season to do it.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Janeway's character writing is crazy inconsistent. Like they need a reason for the plot to not get resolved immediately so they decide to make Janeway a bitch

I cannot imagine this story playing out with any other Captain in Janeway’s place, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.

She's a bit too officious to be a representative of what Starfleet stands for. She makes some good points, but something about Seven's facial expressions makes Janeway look naïve and dumb.

 

[Great President of McHell]

proto-wokeness issue with some of the other characters, namely Chakotay

The funniest thing about this was their "native american consultant" turning out to be some hack white woman so chakotay ends up coming off as extremly racist and steryotypical.

 

[ProfDongs]

The funniest thing about this was their "native american consultant" turning out to be some hack white woman so chakotay ends up coming off as extremly racist and steryotypical.

That was one of my favorite things about early Voyager with Chakotey and Kim, you have a Mexican giving all this talk about spirituality and his people, and then you have a Chinese guy playing a Korean guy giving Chinese proverbs and sayings.

 

[Captain Syrup]

The funniest thing about this was their "native american consultant" turning out to be some hack white woman

Chakotay’s animal guide is a girl.

Don't worry, feminist allies: he's one of the good ones!

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

It would have been really cool if there was a slow degredation of her values over time as the situation becomes more dire. Of course that was never a problem though because theres an intergalactic supermarket always within range in the delta quadrant.

They did that a bit with Archer in season 3 when they were in the Expanse and people didn't like it.

 

[XYZpdq]

Ageing Q can be done by proper writers. Q has always dressed in the rank of the person he was talked to. That he wants to look "old" as Picard is something he absolutely would do.

that's what I expected, he has a throwaway line about "oh don't look so shocked Jean-Luc, I saw how decrepit _you're_ getting and thought it might be fun to try"

The stuff with family Picard is irksome. Bigging up Mama Picard isn't necessarily a bad thing , but for the dialogue.

Her little line about Robert essentially fucking off to school and Jean Luc bring the one stayed home on the vineyard

These people can't help illustrating the fact over and over that they never watched the source material

Wow, that's not a thing brought up a lot but that's a really fucking important thing about the character to screw up.

Voyager kind of had that proto-wokeness issue with some of the other characters, namely Chakotay (who was a Native American and thus all spiritual and enlightened) and Torres (who was always written as being right to be angry at everyone because she was picked on because of her gender and being half-Klingon).

don't forget Torres is half-kling, half-hispanic
fortunately the klingon half helps to keep her calm

 

[HarryHowler]

The funniest thing about this was their "native american consultant" turning out to be some hack white woman so chakotay ends up coming off as extremly racist and steryotypical.

It was actually a guy named Jamake Highwater - or, as he was known to his parents, Jackie Marks. Meaning that some point in the early-mid 90s, this guy walked onto the Paramount lot and convinced Rick Berman & co. that he was a totally legit Native American who was the world's foremost expert on the history of his people:

 

[Travoltron]

This video explains Rick Berman's connections to this fraud:

 

[Captain Syrup]

This video explains Rick Berman's connections to this fraud

Hack frauds have to stick together.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Hack frauds have to stick together.

View attachment 3048472

We all know it's Kurtzman.

Also, I stole this from the Pics that Make You Laugh thread. It made me laugh.

 

[Standardized Profile]

that's what I expected, he has a throwaway line about "oh don't look so shocked Jean-Luc, I saw how decrepit _you're_ getting and thought it might be fun to try"

Technically Picard isn't decrepit. He's brand new. He was simply designed to look like a decrepit human.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Oh, I’m sure if he ends up unfortunately passing in real life, they’re ready to “reboot” the robot into a younger body so as to continue the series.

I cannot help but be simultaneously shocked at such a statement & shake my head in agreement, given the hideousness of the performance of the man playing him.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

They did that a bit with Archer in season 3 when they were in the Expanse and people didn't like it.

Because, as Ya Boi Zack put it, Archer was an incompetent officer mad that he didn't get his way. So, when they make him Jack Bauer, that just doubled down on that particular trait.

Though IMO, Archer actually makes for a decent Marine captain. He's fine when he's kicking down doors, punching people, and shooting them. The problem is he has to do starship operations and diplomacy and he's terrible at those things.

 

[Oats12345]

View attachment 3048790
I cannot not help but be simultaneously shocked at such a statement and shake my head in agreement, given the hideousness of the performance of the man playing him.

It seems Patrick Stewart bitterness catch up to him in apprence

 

[Living Dead Girl]

Ah, now I'm thinking about Voyager.

"So the idea is they're lost, low on resources, fighting to survive in unknown space. But that's scary to write, so we're giving them unlimited supplies and fuel and we'll just have them mention every now and then that they have to conserve resources"

I feel like they have such a good premise and they just... ignore it? The premise is so strong and there's so much they could do with it but they ignore every issue and plot device it could bring into the story. Like you could REMOVE the whole "lost in space" aspect and the show wouldnt change, and that is saying something. "Oh we're low on food" Just kidding. "We're low on fuel" Just kidding. They even replace their fucking shuttles. Voyager writers were scared of writing the premise they put forth so nothing makes sense. Voyager should have went the way of the Equinox.

That's not even to mention all the flat, stagnant characters, but I would be talking forever.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Ah, now I'm thinking about Voyager.

"So the idea is they're lost, low on resources, fighting to survive in unknown space. But that's scary to write, so we're giving them unlimited supplies and fuel and we'll just have them mention every now and then that they have to conserve resources"

I feel like they have such a good premise and they just... ignore it? The premise is so strong and there's so much they could do with it but they ignore every issue and plot device it could bring into the story. Like you could REMOVE the whole "lost in space" aspect and the show wouldnt change, and that is saying something. "Oh we're low on food" Just kidding. "We're low on fuel" Just kidding. They even replace their fucking shuttles. Voyager writers were scared of writing the premise they put forth so nothing makes sense. Voyager should have went the way of the Equinox.

That's not even to mention all the flat, stagnant characters, but I would be talking forever.

Battlestar Galactica Remake is a show that I criticize for all sorts of reasons, but they held to their scarcity premise tightly.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I feel like they have such a good premise and they just... ignore it?

VOY is about diving into anomalies, whizzing around space and having ship battles.

It wouldn't be the first series to ditch its premise part-way in. I guess right down to having one irrelevant character (EMH) completely hijack the show.

Battlestar Galactica Remake is a show that I criticize for all sorts of reasons, but they held to their scarcity premise tightly.

Cloud 9 really had to go. I was happy to see it get blown up. It was a big, floating resort with a biodome, green parks and trees. It also had five-star restaurants, bars, luxury suits, and a casino. It reminded me of that hideous Jamaican luau on VOY.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Battlestar Galactica Remake is a show that I criticize for all sorts of reasons, but they held to their scarcity premise tightly.

Voyager had the ability to play the same premise and had the opportunities to restock. Whether by trade, salvage whether battlefield or grave robbing, theft, or just buying what's needed and selling unneeded stuff. After getting a forced reintroduction to capitalism once more than a few civilizations done the FU saying they want their version of NOT!gold pressed latinum not this primitive barter shit.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I kinda have a soft spot for Voyager since it was the first Star Trek I ever saw(it would play on UPN in the evenings), but it definitely had issues. Had characters I really liked though.