Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[AssignedEva]

Coerced sex is rape, prostitutes would not be sleeping with Johns unless they were paid (economic coercion), therefore prostitution is rape. If you disagree with that definition it's whatever - I understand that some will disagree with calling prostitution rape even if they are for the abolition of prostitution - but it isn't arbitrarily changing the meaning of words since true sexual consent in prostitution (a coercive practice) isn't possible. No hate this is just where I'm coming from.

I agree with you. Prostitution and survival sex (as in "I'll let you fuck me if you let me crash here tonight") is coercive control. These women wouldn't do this stuff if they didn't have to.

But, while I get the logical reason why you call it rape (she doesn't consent, she's forced into it) you create a semantic issue where prostitutes can't be raped.

None of us (I hope) think prostitutes want to be prostitutes. They've ended up there. But there's still a difference between that and a man forcing himself on a prostitute. Prostitution is "rape" but also prostitutes are vulnerable to getting raped. We need to be aware of that.

 

[narcissistic injury]

I’m really behind and spending my evening doing work with chube in the background

Confucius vid

Someone watch this garbage with me

It’s so weird


His teeth are extra disgusting looking in this vid.

 

[EverlyB]

I agree with you. Prostitution and survival sex (as in "I'll let you fuck me if you let me crash here tonight") is coercive control. These women wouldn't do this stuff if they didn't have to.

But, while I get the logical reason why you call it rape (she doesn't consent, she's forced into it) you create a semantic issue where prostitutes can't be raped.

None of us (I hope) think prostitutes want to be prostitutes. They've ended up there. But there's still a difference between that and a man forcing himself on a prostitute. Prostitution is "rape" but also prostitutes are vulnerable to getting raped. We need to be aware of that.

Sex worker ("prostitute," sure, I don't mind) here. There's a difference between being "coerced" directly into an act and being indirectly "coerced" by a need for money - otherwise, "coerced labor," as in indentured servitude, wouldn't be a meaningful concept, just a tautology for labor.

Sex is coercive to the point of being nonconsensual when you need it in order to get access to something you're already entitled to, whether it's your life at gunpoint, your private information not being leaked, or the grade you deserve in a course. Nobody has the right to withhold this from you.

A different matter is transactional sex. It's not rape to agree to sex in order to get something you're not entitled to, whether that's a student getting a higher grade than she fairly deserves or me getting hundreds of dollars a night from a man.

I also don't agree with the logic that it's wrong to call sex work rape just because sex workers can also be recognized as being raped. That's like saying, "By calling statutory rape 'rape,' you're saying minors can't be raped by adults." We'd agree that it's an aggravated charge if force is also involved, and that's what "sex work is inherently violating" critics would say too.

 

[narcissistic injury]

Yeah this is a bit much. Not a fan of ideological extremes that require mental somersaults

I’ve been open about hating my fucking job and just bc I do it for the money, i.e. economic coercion, doesn’t mean I’m enslaved.

(Just enduring light psychological abuse, degradation, threat of harm but… I am still not going to advocate for dishonest use of language in either extreme… I do consent to being there and wasting my life despite the daily horror….)

 

[esmeggs]

Sorry for starting prostitution discourse in the Philosophy Tube Kiwifarms thread of all places. No hard feelings towards anyone. Anyway I put hours of work into deciphering one of Contra's tweets and have uncovered some pretty incriminating stuff:

 

[narcissistic injury]

Much better LOL LOL LOL

PT = FAT

LOLLLLLLLLLLL

(And I wasn’t political sperging I was PERSONAL sperging. I should be a youtuber)

Home page’s quote is plucked from ollys mind:

 

[esmeggs]

How much longer until joanfromlegal fully peaks??? She got 40 downvotes on the philosophytube subreddit for daring to state that cis women are oppressed.



Twitter post in question:

Check out the post if you want to see dozens of comments from seething TRAs, such as this:

 

[Cr1ms0n_&_C10v3r]

Yeah, it's usually quite telling about people's view on sexual consent when they compare purchasing the use of the interior cavities of someone's body to, say, working in a fast food chain or kissing someone in a play. While it's an appealing comparison to make if you just look at superficial similarities (you're using your body in both cases and money is changing hands) it shows that they have a fundamentally transactional outlook and think anything can be purchased.

For people with healthy sex lives, consent is an expressed mental state of arousal and enthusiasm to get jiggy - it can no more be bought than any other spontaneous human emotion. If they characterise it as 'passive agreement' it does make you wonder what kind of sex they are having.

Most normal people understand this, at least on some level - I think it's the jump from agreeing it isn't truly consensual to 'it's rape'.

It's also not considering that for the majority of people, sexuality has a large psychological component. Even when you aren't into it. You can tell yourself you're selling sex and it's just a service like any other, no big deal, but I'm not convinced that doesn't take a toll mentally. People who have experienced SA or rape are usually more traumatised than someone who got into a fist fight.

View attachment 3062644

So what's the point here? Is he trying to claim sex-based discrimination doesn't exist because women also sometimes deal with racism and classism? Nobody is saying that isn't the case, how does that change the fact women all have being biologically female in common, which is actually 100% relevant to how racism etc. affects them? This is just a pathetic attempt to add "trans" to the list of intersectionalities. It will never happen Ollie. It's like trying to say white people are a group of black people. You are literally necessarily excluded from the demographic of women by being male. This is what people don't understand when lefties like Rowling support all these progressive causes but draw a line in the sand with troons.

 

[AfghanBlue]

How much longer until joanfromlegal fully peaks??? She got 40 downvotes on the philosophytube subreddit for daring to state that cis women are oppressed.

View attachment 3065597View attachment 3065599

Twitter post in question:
View attachment 3065598
Check out the post if you want to see dozens of comments from seething TRAs, such as this:
View attachment 3065600

It is SUCH a fucking shame the mass block happened so all the canaries in the coal mine can’t tell her “told you so”

Also Tube never signed such a ceasefire- ‘‘twas but the handmaidens all agreeing with each other that they didn’t wanna hurt the troons

 

[Red_Squirrel]

I have quite literally never seen Olly interact with someone with XX chromosomes.

I talked about this in the first few pages of the thread but I know about the Imperial panel Olly was on with other breadtubers in early 2019. Other notable panelists includes hBomb and AngieSpeaks. Angie was the only woman on the panel and was largely ignored and spoken over the entire time.

hBomb was clearly drunk. Even got up to sprint to the toilet part way through. Olly was drawing a lot of attention to himself. Asked the audience if anyone had a snake he could borrow for a video. Promoting his “acting career”. The men were ignoring the discussion topics in favour of banter and playing to the audience, while Angie was seriously and thoughtfully discussing the topics at hand.

Afterwards the audience was free to mingle with the creators. Despite the audience being mostly women, Olly pretty much only engaged in conversations with men.

So the big name male breadtubers were unprofessional narcs who ignored women, despite the female panellist being the best one there.

 

[scathefire]

I agree with you. Prostitution and survival sex (as in "I'll let you fuck me if you let me crash here tonight") is coercive control. These women wouldn't do this stuff if they didn't have to.

But, while I get the logical reason why you call it rape (she doesn't consent, she's forced into it) you create a semantic issue where prostitutes can't be raped.

None of us (I hope) think prostitutes want to be prostitutes. They've ended up there. But there's still a difference between that and a man forcing himself on a prostitute. Prostitution is "rape" but also prostitutes are vulnerable to getting raped. We need to be aware of that.

I think in his video he was mainly focusing on women who choose to be prostitutes or "sex workers". As was said above I seriously doubt those people are psychologically undamaged, many or most of them are likely CSA victims. Plus women have more psychological difficulty with transactional/casual sex than men do, which I guess is why HSTS make ideal prostitutes.

I'm pretty sure in his video he was arguing that it should be normalized, but this is why I've grown to hate the way "normalize" is constantly used by him and his ilk. Yuri Bezmenov said in that one 80s interview how "normalization" is a super cynical word and gave an example of when the USSR parked their tanks in Czechoslovakia or something, and Brezhnev (USSR leader at the time) was like "The situation in Czechoslovakia has been normalized!" Basically, you can commit or push for any amount of unethical/myopic/horrific/etc. shit and if it sticks around for long enough it'll become normalized! Isn't that great? You can make literally anything you want normalized, that's why it's cynical.

 

[The Jackal]

Sorry for starting prostitution discourse in the Philosophy Tube Kiwifarms thread of all places. No hard feelings towards anyone. Anyway I put hours of work into deciphering one of Contra's tweets and have uncovered some pretty incriminating stuff:

No need to say sorry - it's an interesting subject and I think everyone here is capable of discussing his/her opinion like a grown-up, in stark contrast to Olly and his Breadtube frenemies.

I did wonder myself if Contra might have had our princess in mind when he wrote that tweet...

Check out the post if you want to see dozens of comments from seething TRAs, such as this:

Actually terrifying: they've completely convinced themselves that any rule or legislation which prevents MTFs doing whatever the hell they want all the time counts as 'genocide'. They are fanatics.

 

[PennyAni]

How much longer until joanfromlegal fully peaks??? She got 40 downvotes on the philosophytube subreddit for daring to state that cis women are oppressed.

View attachment 3065597View attachment 3065599

Twitter post in question:
View attachment 3065598
Check out the post if you want to see dozens of comments from seething TRAs, such as this:
View attachment 3065600

My last post was trying to reply to Olly's latest twitter bullshit about cis women. I was so mad I could barely form a coherent rant about it, so I said I wished someone would tell him off.

If you had told me alllll the way back then (last night I believe) that it would be JoanFromLegal, I'd have said you were crazy.

And yet- here we are. She will peak, sooner or later. The writing is all over the wall. I'm gonna slip over to Reddit and check out this thread.

ETA: OMG! Ok, so....I very rarely post on reddit but tonight I did; msged JoanFromLegal to say I agreed with her and was sorry people were being obtuse. And holy fuck, girlfriend is PEAKING! She kinda even went off about it and yeah....she is no longer the "Abi can do no wrong" handmaiden she used to be! We love to see it <3

 

[love life anarchy]

I talked about this in the first few pages of the thread but I know about the Imperial panel Olly was on with other breadtubers in early 2019. Other notable panelists includes hBomb and AngieSpeaks. Angie was the only woman on the panel and was largely ignored and spoken over the entire time.

hBomb was clearly drunk. Even got up to sprint to the toilet part way through. Olly was drawing a lot of attention to himself. Asked the audience if anyone had a snake he could borrow for a video. Promoting his “acting career”. The men were ignoring the discussion topics in favour of banter and playing to the audience, while Angie was seriously and thoughtfully discussing the topics at hand.

Afterwards the audience was free to mingle with the creators. Despite the audience being mostly women, Olly pretty much only engaged in conversations with men.

So the big name male breadtubers were unprofessional narcs who ignored women, despite the female panellist being the best one there.

 

[Red_Squirrel]

View attachment 3067502

Only thing that video missed out is the door slamming behind him.

These men can’t even take a shit without seeking attention:

 

[narcissistic injury]

View attachment 3067502

Lmao ew what is this amateur hour bullshit “panel” hahahahahahaha all crammed in at their shitty little table.. oh my god so embarrassing

 

[AfghanBlue]

well well, (as well as a bunch of other comments pointing out Tube being a misogynistic cunt,) Joan has FINALLY replied, 5 mins ago!
@PennyAni looks like you emboldened her x

looks like she was taking in the comments a few weeks ago, despite mute/blocking every fucker. Lol, love it.


(She's still on the twat braintrain though-
She cant relate to something or only really takes it seriously if suddenly its HER ego on the choppping block-
also still seems to have to be an outgroup; why are middle aged british Terfs more grotesque then say, 24 year old German Terfs?

And in what fucking way is Tube traumatised from his lifelong incredible privilege, his only real celebrity coming instantly from his troonage? (and dissipating just as fast because of his indistinguishable awfulness)
Never mind though, peaking is gradual.
You'll get there Joan, you ol' simping harridan. )


@love life anarchy that video shows those creepy, arse-stinking grotty little men for EXACTLY what they are. Horrible. Horrible little boys club of wankers. Angies face, fucking hell.

Bonus

lol, cold, not even a 'Hi' .
he'll answer because its business, but no tassels-
its like the more ingratiating they are to him, the more he treats em like nothing.
maybe its the narc thing, desperately wanting adulation from people when its an unsure source, moving straight on to the next once its achieved.

 

[cia-log]

well well, (as well as a bunch of other comments pointing out Tube being a misogynistic cunt, Joan has FINALLY replied, 5 mins ago!)
View attachment 3067669looks like she was taking in the comments a few weeks ago, despite blocking every fucker. Lol, love it.

This is exactly what I meant before about well-meaning people being taken advantage of. Trauma isn't an excuse to treat people like shit just because you feel like it. She doesn't want to make Olly's """trauma""" worse and ends up enabling shitty behavior from a person who is undoubtedly more privileged than herself and works against her own interests in the process.


You mentioned before that people online love to make fun of white women and for me that was always the canary in the coal mine when it comes to these people. Women's rights being the most important thing in the world one year and then the butt of every joke the next is all you need to know these are just people looking for excuses to treat people like shit. I hope Joan realizes the double standard of assuming Olly has some trauma that excuses being an asshole while finding it unreasonable for JK Rowling to politely explain feelings that stem from her own trauma.

 

[esmeggs]

well well, (as well as a bunch of other comments pointing out Tube being a misogynistic cunt,) Joan has FINALLY replied, 5 mins ago!
@PennyAni looks like you emboldened her x

View attachment 3067669looks like she was taking in the comments a few weeks ago, despite mute/blocking every fucker. Lol, love it.


(She's still on the twat braintrain though-
She cant relate to something or only really takes it seriously if suddenly its HER ego on the choppping block-
also still seems to have to be an outgroup; why are middle aged british Terfs more grotesque then say, 24 year old German Terfs?

And in what fucking way is Tube traumatised from his lifelong incredible privilege, his only real celebrity coming instantly from his troonage? (and dissipating just as fast because of his indistinguishable awfulness)
Never mind though, peaking is gradual.
You'll get there Joan, you ol' simping harridan. )

She still has so much sympathy for these misogynistic men. Wish I could send her this and tell her misogynists flat out cheer on this behavior from Abigail. You can't deny that this is misogynistic male behavior, these aren't some poor wittle traumatized women with "internalized misogyny":

If it's ironic then even troons can see this shit for what it is: woman-hating.
(archive)
The middle-aged British "TERFs" are your sisters, not men that mock you at every turn and call you a "TERF" for calling out their hatred towards women. She can apply "trauma radicalizes people" to men in dresses that have been misogynistic their entire lives, but not to "TERFs" that have been on the receiving end of this and as a result do not see "trans women" as fellow women.

Olly flat out lying:

 

[frap]

She still has so much sympathy for these misogynistic men. Wish I could send her this and tell her misogynists flat out cheer on this behavior from Abigail. You can't deny that this is misogynistic male behavior, these aren't some poor wittle traumatized women with "internalized misogyny":
View attachment 3067934
If it's ironic then even troons can see this shit for what it is: woman-hating.
(archive)
The middle-aged British "TERFs" are your sisters, not men that mock you at every turn and call you a "TERF" for calling out their hatred towards women. She can apply "trauma radicalizes people" to men in dresses that have been misogynistic their entire lives, but not to "TERFs" that have been on the receiving end of this and as a result do not see "trans women" as fellow women.

Olly flat out lying:
View attachment 3067942

‘Most GC folks will always see any vague criticism of them as inherent
misogyny.’

Interesting, because:
Most trans folks will always see any vague criticism of them as inherent transphobia. Jim Sterling and Ollie Chin being prime examples.

And there’s nothing remotely British about Ollie’s last sentence. Although it is remarkably similar to the Mumsnet ‘did you mean to be so rude’ quip that no one would actually ever say to someone. He’s such a compulsive liar.