Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[narcissistic injury]

(possible troon?)

LMAO don’t sneakily edit that in there.. he’s not!!!!

 

[AfghanBlue]

LMAO don’t sneakily edit that in there.. he’s not!!!!

Is he not? He looks soemthing weird

 

[GenitalFetishist]

@lady stoneheart

Is this really how it works in Islam? Only asking because I'm also from a conservative religious background and "picking and choosing" what you believe or which rules you're supposed to follow is what they call "Cafeteria Catholicism". Which....I know, I know- most Catholics are Cafetria Catholics to *some* degree or another. But the concept is still officially very much frowned upon.

To be fair, if you followed every law or rule in the bible to the letter, you would absolutely end up in prison. I'll take a cafeteria christian over a biblical literalist any day.

 

[scathefire]

Really? It really took you that long to figure out why the majority of guys on Tinder don't want to fuck a man in a dress? I think you cracked the code there, Meredith. Well done.

I think even among men who do want to fuck a man in a dress, what they want to fuck are small, hairless, naturally feminine-looking twinks, not a man like Alok (who's hairy enough to be a werewolf) or Jacob who both look like they're crossdressing as part of a frathouse hazing dare. Basically, they appeal to nobody while getting offended that they appeal to nobody.

 

[Shotgun Badger]

Maybe he's waiting to finish healing before getting professional headshots done? There's the option to change his pfp to a still from his latest video, but he gets a kick out of the headshot experience: the photographer, the stylist, and the makeup artist all swirling around him. I don't think he'd give up a chance to be fluffed and arranged like a Real Actresse™.

Speaking of his surgery, check out this very revealing KJB merch poster from last week:

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All the hosts are glamorized here — it's merch; of course everyone shows up at their most beautiful and cool — but Abigail's face takes the cake. The anime nose. The Draco Malfoy jaw. Is this how he imagines himself?? I wouldn't have recognized this figure as his likeness if it weren't a KJB poster. Gorgeous work from the artist, though, if you can put aside the silliness of the hosts.

We haven't paid much attention to the third host, perhaps because he's less relevant online, but he's made of the same stuff as the others. Today he dropped this gem:

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This is a guy who makes most of his living, according to Olly's latest livestream, from a podcast about shitting on someone else's successful movies, talking down to a woman who wrote her own books, made them the bestselling series of all time, and resolved to donate her fortune away. She runs a charity. She publishes brick-sized crime novels every other year. Oh no, she's tweeting about women! Tragically wasting her time while you n yr mates dedicate ages to hatewatching popcorn flicks. I mean... dude. Where is your mirror.

It's especially funny because the first words in Devon's bio are "trans, they/them" as if self-declaration will save him from sounding like the quintessential most annoying man every woman has ever met.

Its pretty good the way that every single person behind this podcast is a white guy despite trying their darnedest to present themselves as more diverse than that.

 

[Shotgun Badger]

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Who knows. No sense, just vibes. Somehow he's managed to finesse being perceived as a straight man while enjoying all of the behavior that contributes to that perception into a terribly marginalized experience of interior suffering.

Spoiler: devon content

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"Nonbinary btw" is a pretty accurate summary of his trans ethos, which seems to go something like 1) trans is cool and 2) I am cool therefore 3) I am trans. No further comment just ID.

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I have a strong stomach, but I gotta admit I flinched at this picture.

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God bless her. Hope she's in a better place now.

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KJB live show sold out already. Wonder if we'll see candid photos of the event.

You know I never really looked into this Devon fella but in my naivete I assumed he was pretty much 'The Normal One' out of this group, but no, all three of them are ridiculous, incredibly narcissistic ('insanely hot and flamboyant' lol) males who are desperately seeking out any tiny sliver of oppression that they can base their whole persona around.

Like, seriously, would it have killed them to at least get one person with XX chromosomes on the pod?

 

[AfghanBlue]

You know I never really looked into this Devon fella but in my naivete I assumed he was pretty much 'The Normal One' out of this group, but no, all three of them are ridiculous, incredibly narcissistic ('insanely hot and flamboyant' lol) males who are desperately seeking out any tiny sliver of oppression that they can base their whole persona around.

Like, seriously, would it have killed them to at least get one person with XX chromosomes on the pod?

I have quite literally never seen Olly interact with someone with XX chromosomes.
oh, there was the time he spoke to some women on that embarrassment of an NUS interview; there was a couple there- but like-that was literally once, and in terms of actual more-than-one-off, working or other relationship, people he knows?
even actually working relationship that has gone on longer than like 45 minutes-

No.
he has never been around women- he interacts with a lot of people who claim that title, but actual women, never.
even the troons he hangs out with are more like irony troons; over-knowing, agp- not even your honest to god HSTS.

- and the only times he's ever mentioned real women, he's explicitly been as negative and scathing as he can of them. He has never said anything nice, neutral, or even non negative of a woman. He will occasionally when the grift calls, only for his benefit and to pick and chose to back up a selfish argument of his own, use an example of a female "Philosopher of Colour" (cringe); but he's also been explicit in that he doesn't view The Negress as woman..so, yeah.

 

[Shotgun Badger]

I have quite literally never seen Olly interact with someone with XX chromosomes.
oh, there was the time he spoke to some women on that embarrassment of an NUS interview; there was a couple there- but like-that was literally once, and in terms of actual more-than-one-off, working or other relationship, people he knows?
even actually working relationship that has gone on longer than like 45 minutes-

No.
he has never been around women- he interacts with a lot of people who claim that title, but actual women, never.
even the troons he hangs out with are more like irony troons; over-knowing, agp- not even your honest to god HSTS.

- and the only times he's ever mentioned real women, he's explicitly been as negative and scathing as he can of them. He has never said anything nice, neutral, or even non negative of a woman. He will occasionally when the grift calls, only for his benefit and to pick and chose to back up a selfish argument of his own, use an example of a female "Philosopher of Colour" (cringe); but he's also been explicit in that he doesn't view The Negress as woman..so, yeah.

I think he was on Lindsay Ellis's podcast once, though I haven't listened to it.

 

[esmeggs]

I have quite literally never seen Olly interact with someone with XX chromosomes.

There's a video of him chatting with a pornstar for an hour. I'm not going to sit through it because the "Sex Work" video where he compared prostitutes getting raped every day to him pretending to kiss people in plays makes me MATI. Top comment on the Sex Work video is someone admitting to hiring a prostitute (i.e., paying to rape a woman) when they turned 19:

There's also this comment where someone boasts about looking up porn featuring the woman Olly spoke to:

Wowee!!! You looked up a video of a woman being forced to fuck a stranger on camera on your "site of choice" and went "wow she is actually a real woman that has thoughts and feelings, not just an object to be fucked on camera for my own amusement!", great job coomer!

 

[Tombigbee]

Florence (from the first tweet) claims in her bio to be “non-binary.” And disabled. I don’t know what the fuck she’s talking about with people allegedly saying Rowling is “above criticism.” Obviously no one said that. Here’s more context to her stupid posturing about “that woman”:

 

[cia-log]

Fr.
It’s a fucking bore that there’s racists and idiots on here soemtimes, thankfully they always out themselves with their absolute obsession with not talking about anything else or seeing things through a very fixed prism.

Even as a bog-standard white woman, there’s fucking terrabytes of hate written about you every day- you just don’t interact, don’t pay attention, and hope that the very worst of it is put forth by people so twisted as to not have any real control of your life; though by sheer volume and longevity of the archetypes, there is a drip-drip effect;
terf rhetoric on the other hand, is not only much smaller and more measured but it has no hope of erasing the privilege they already have.

Is it any real surprise they can cope tho?
These are the guys who freaked out so much they got in line to cut their dicks Of, ten minutes into people starting to take the piss out of them a bit- rich white men.

Yeah, it is something you just get used to as a person online. On the other hand I think about what AssignedEva mentioned about narcs becoming obsessed with revenge and how both Olly and Contra are constantly trying to get people to hate women in particular who they feel hurt them. They both put up this bullshit act of "I'm just so tired" and then go on and mock cis white women with underhanded remarks, shitty jokes, etc.

That's part of what really bothers me about these two. I never liked jokes about Straight White Cis Men™ even when I was more in line with the left because it just seemed like an excuse to treat people like shit without giving up their sense of moral superiority, while not actually doing anything helpful. I feel vindicated in that belief seeing all these formerly Straight White Cis Men™ climb the progressive stack just to express hostility towards women without being called out on it. Olly in particular doesn't even hide how much he enjoys shitting on women, but both of them handwave away any responsibility by just presuming gender critical radfems of being guilty of nazism or whatever.

 

[AssignedEva]

Florence (from the first tweet) claims in her bio to be “non-binary.” And disabled. I don’t know what the fuck she’s talking about with people allegedly saying Rowling is “above criticism.” Obviously no one said that. Here’s more context to her stupid posturing about “that woman”:

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Remember this is bad faith arguing. Florence knows nobody is saying "don't criticise JK Rowling because she's a millionaire".

They're looking at two things here. The first is she correctly drew a parallel between people saying "all you had to do was keep your mouth shut about trans people and you'd still be liked" and her abusive ex husband saying "all you had to do was behave as I told you and I wouldn't have hit you".

The second is that she went from being an impoverished single mother to creating a cultural phenomenon that's still with us. Dismissing her achievements isn't a great look. You can criticise her for being a hack writer (although I think that criticism is sometimes overstated), but it's still impressive she was able to pull it off.

It's not that you can't criticise her, it's that the criticisms are largely amounting to "shut up you stupid old hag". But countering that is hard, so they're claiming people are defending her because she's a wealthy white woman. Which is ironic given they'll usually say "wow people criticising [trans person who did something awful] are only criticising her because she's trans".

See also the time some trans people posted photos outside her house as a veiled threat, but when JK Rowling shared it she was "endangering trans lives".

Ollie is being ludicrous as usual. "Oppression of women was never just about our sex" - I don't think I've ever seen gender crits argue that women have a universal experience of oppression, just that sex based oppression exists (so why are you saying "our sex", Abigail? You are not the same sex as cis women, otherwise you wouldn't be trans). Naturally he calls it a project to suggest it's a psyop rather than a genuine movement.

 

[Swimminglanes]

Hatred of women is a characteristic of Autogynephilia.

Blanchard explains it as a result of jealousy that they can't be women and resentment when women won't pretend.

Ollie should think about why he's displaying so many AGP symptoms.

 

[The Jackal]

Like, seriously, would it have killed them to at least get one person with XX chromosomes on the pod?

Are you suggesting Olly doesn't have whatever chromosomes he chooses to have you disgusting TERF?

There's a video of him chatting with a pornstar for an hour. I'm not going to sit through it because the "Sex Work" video where he compared prostitutes getting raped every day to him pretending to kiss people in plays makes me MATI. Top comment on the Sex Work video is someone admitting to hiring a prostitute (i.e., paying to rape a woman) when they turned 19:

Look, I'm with you, but there's a clear ethical distinction to be made between this and rape. Consenting to have sex in exchange for money is not the same as being made to have sex without consent. Arbitrarily changing the meaning of words is precisely what lies at the heart of this TRA insanity.

The second is that she went from being an impoverished single mother to creating a cultural phenomenon that's still with us. Dismissing her achievements isn't a great look. You can criticise her for being a hack writer (although I think that criticism is sometimes overstated), but it's still impressive she was able to pull it off.

True, but I think that's even beside the point. The fact that she's wealthy is irrelevant - she would presumably have said the same thing even if she were still an impoverished single mother today. Being rich and famous just means that she's able to broadcast her views more effectively and more people are aware of them. Saying "I don't lick billionaire boot" is simply a tactic to dismiss Rowling's argument without bothering to confront it.

Another tactic that Olly employs here is watering down the discourse by saying "the concept of female liberation is meaningless and indistinct when viewed as part of this complex and nuanced web of intersectionality, blah, blah, blah". This is all simply gibberish used to obfuscate feminist arguments.

I think even among men who do want to fuck a man in a dress, what they want to fuck are small, hairless, naturally feminine-looking twinks, not a man like Alok (who's hairy enough to be a werewolf) or Jacob who both look like they're crossdressing as part of a frathouse hazing dare. Basically, they appeal to nobody while getting offended that they appeal to nobody.

Yes, when I said a 'man in a dress' I really meant a 'MAN in a dress'. Plenty of men would be happy to fuck either a man who convincingly looks like a woman, or just a man who looks like a man. They either know they can't be, or are unwilling to try being, the former, and apparently are not content with being the latter.

 

[esmeggs]

Look, I'm with you, but there's a clear ethical distinction to be made between this and rape. Consenting to have sex in exchange for money is not the same as being made to have sex without consent. Arbitrarily changing the meaning of words is precisely what lies at the heart of this TRA insanity.

Coerced sex is rape, prostitutes would not be sleeping with Johns unless they were paid (economic coercion), therefore prostitution is rape. If you disagree with that definition it's whatever - I understand that some will disagree with calling prostitution rape even if they are for the abolition of prostitution - but it isn't arbitrarily changing the meaning of words since true sexual consent in prostitution (a coercive practice) isn't possible. No hate this is just where I'm coming from.

 

[Ear]

Yeah, it's usually quite telling about people's view on sexual consent when they compare purchasing the use of the interior cavities of someone's body to, say, working in a fast food chain or kissing someone in a play. While it's an appealing comparison to make if you just look at superficial similarities (you're using your body in both cases and money is changing hands) it shows that they have a fundamentally transactional outlook and think anything can be purchased.

For people with healthy sex lives, consent is an expressed mental state of arousal and enthusiasm to get jiggy - it can no more be bought than any other spontaneous human emotion. If they characterise it as 'passive agreement' it does make you wonder what kind of sex they are having.

Most normal people understand this, at least on some level - I think it's the jump from agreeing it isn't truly consensual to 'it's rape'.

 

[The Jackal]

Coerced sex is rape, prostitutes would not be sleeping with Johns unless they were paid (economic coercion), therefore prostitution is rape. If you disagree with that definition it's whatever - I understand that some will disagree with calling prostitution rape even if they are for the abolition of prostitution - but it isn't arbitrarily changing the meaning of words since true sexual consent in prostitution (a coercive practice) isn't possible. No hate this is just where I'm coming from.

I'm not unsympathetic to this idea - capitalism functioning as a coercive agent in people's lives - I just think, again, that one must differentiate between these two concepts of coercion.

Yeah, it's usually quite telling about people's view on sexual consent when they compare purchasing the use of the interior cavities of someone's body to, say, working in a fast food chain or kissing someone in a play. While it's an appealing comparison to make if you just look at superficial similarities (you're using your body in both cases and money is changing hands) it shows that they have a fundamentally transactional outlook and think anything can be purchased.

Agreed.

For people with healthy sex lives, consent is an expressed mental state of arousal and enthusiasm to get jiggy - it can no more be bought than any other spontaneous human emotion. If they characterise it as 'passive agreement' it does make you wonder what kind of sex they are having.

Not sure about this. 'Consent' to me simply means the opposite of 'refusal'. While I agree that a normal person ought to want more than just consent when they have sex (desire, love, affection, arousal, enthusiasm or whatever), I don't think these things are automatically implied in the word 'consent'. It's a purely semantic point.

 

[Ear]

Not sure about this. 'Consent' to me simply means the opposite of 'refusal'. While I agree that a normal person ought to want more than just consent when they have sex (desire, love, affection, arousal, enthusiasm or whatever), I don't think these things are automatically implied in the word 'consent'. It's a purely semantic point.

It's an important semantic point, though. Swerfs and pro prozzies would talk past each other less if it were better understood.

You're quite right, the basic meaning of the word is acceptance/agreement. But in nearly every context where it's used, something is appended, like how I'm trying to do here. Like, consent to medical treatment needs to be 'informed', or it's assault. Consent to a legal/financial transaction needs to be 'freely given and in sound mind' or the contract is invalid. I had hoped we'd got to a point where sexual consent needed to be 'enthusiastic' or the sex is rape.

But I do get where you're coming from, and it would be possible to make a solid argument for a more minimalist take on consent (although to be consistent we probably need to be a bit more libertarian about other consents and strip out some of the appended bits that validate the consent.)

Anyway, Ollie comparing a stage kiss with being a whore trying to get her heroin money makes me MATI too, I'd rather argue semantics all day than watch that.

 

[AfghanBlue]

Sometimes it’s real, real hard not to reply to the Tube on Twitter.
Also, his joke doesn’t even work.
No one is ever saying “I can’t even tell” about his cohort.
You look like shit lmao

 

[PennyAni]

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Florence (from the first tweet) claims in her bio to be “non-binary.” And disabled. I don’t know what the fuck she’s talking about with people allegedly saying Rowling is “above criticism.” Obviously no one said that. Here’s more context to her stupid posturing about “that woman”:

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I cant stand these people. I cant do Twitter but fuck I hope someone calls Olly out on this bullshit.