Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread

How well is the war this going for Russia?

  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Blyatskrieg

    Votes: 249 10.6%
  • ⭐⭐⭐⭐ I ain't afraid of no Ghost of Kiev

    Votes: 278 11.8%
  • ⭐⭐⭐ Competent attack with some upsets

    Votes: 796 33.7%
  • ⭐⭐ Stalemate

    Votes: 659 27.9%
  • ⭐ Ukraine takes back Crimea 2022

    Votes: 378 16.0%

  • Total voters
    2,360
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i think they could also be intended as long term punishment, as a deterrent.
like, if russia goes into a long, harsh and painful economic decline for the next two decades as a result of this situation, by 2040 people in all countries will look at the ruined remains of russia and unanimously agree that going for this invasion was a major blunder, a huge mistake. this would contribute to everybody thinking twice before trying to go for similar aggressive military adventures in the future.

whether it works out this way, we can't predict at this point, but i think that is part of the intention.
Yeah, no doubt. I shouldn’t have said “sanctions” when I was specifically referring to Oligarch asset seizures and private sanctions.

Both are effective psychologically and economically, but anyone who thinks it will trigger an Oligarch coup is wrong.
 
no this is way overblown
maybe it is this way in america, i cant speak for that, but in europe the narrative is completely focused on PUTIN BAD
all the russians who already live here (which is quite a lot in places like germany) have to do is agree (or at least not publicly disagree) with that narrative and people treat them either as unfortunate victims of a brutal tyrant who were lucky to escape, or brave dissenters against hitler 2.0.
Maybe it depends which area, stories about Russian schmoes being refused service at German clinics have been
going around.
Screen Shot 2022-03-21 at 1.02.03.png
 
>fuhrer zelensky
>directs war from the kiev fuhrerbunker
>says won't leave city
>instructs civilians and children to attack enemy tanks
>concripts poorly equipped militias
>declares urban festungs which get levelled by russians
>paramilitaries shoot "defeatist" civilians
>rambles constantly about total war
>bans opposition parties
>is constantly drugged
>says miraculous help will come soon
>endsieg?


Note that I do not wish to offend any side and that this war has been a significant miscalculation of Putin. This war would not even happen if both sides knew how to practice some Cold War diplomacy, instead of engaging in moralising nonsense to conceal their greedy and shortsighted nature. It was a mistake of NATO to feed lies to Zelensky about aid in case of a war, and a mistake of Putin to escalate his brinksmanship to an actual war which will be hardly sustainable for the Russian military-industrial complex.
It may not be sustainable, but will it kick the Russian M-I-C into modernization + investment? Probably.
 
Maybe it depends which area, stories about Russian schmoes being refused service at German clinics have been
going around.
View attachment 3090186
yeah that was already posted in the old thread, it was a private clinic of orthopedic and cosmetic surgeons trying to do a little virtue signaling, they instantly cucked out, deleted, and apologized for it when people started calling them out for it lel

Don't mess with regular people just living their lives, what the fuck is wrong with you?
any action taken against a state will always involve messing with regular people just living their lives to some degree
the west considers russia a hostile state, so they treat it as such. the military approach is off the table due to the nuclear threat, so they have to settle for the next best thing which is economic warfare
 
i think they could also be intended as long term punishment, as a deterrent.
like, if russia goes into a long, harsh and painful economic decline for the next two decades as a result of this situation, by 2040 people in all countries will look at the ruined remains of russia and unanimously agree that going for this invasion was a major blunder, a huge mistake. this would contribute to everybody thinking twice before trying to go for similar aggressive military adventures in the future.

whether it works out this way, we can't predict at this point, but i think that is part of the intention.


yes, and every russian business unable to pay the bills further reduces moscows available tax base and contributes to economic downturn. the goal is to damage the russian economy as a whole.
Oh right because that is really going to make Russians hate Putin and love American/Poland/Germany/France/UK. Yeah no.
 
yeah that was already posted in the old thread, it was a private clinic of orthopedic and cosmetic surgeons trying to do a little virtue signaling, they instantly cucked out, deleted, and apologized for it when people started calling them out for it lel
It won´t undo the damage they´ve caused on themselves and the damage anyone is gonna do on them later on.
 
Oh right because that is really going to make Russians hate Putin and love American/Poland/Germany/France/UK. Yeah no.
trying to make russians hate putin and love america is not the point. the point is inflicting damage to the russian economy at large because that is the only available way to indirectly damage the russian state.
 
Don't mess with regular people just living their lives, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Look here pal, if we don't at least try to ruin millions of lives and encourage those same people to rise up against their leader known for not putting up with opposition then we're simply not doing enough.
No, this will not, nor has it ever, backfired.
 
Remember that all pre-war analysts said that Russian’s logistics were based on rail and pipe and not trucks because, partly, they didn’t have enough drivers to carry their logistics the way Americans do. As a matter of fact, it was stated that if they used trucks, they would have to use conscripts to drive them.

To me, this seems to support the narrative that Russia did go in soft, however, the other part of their doctrine is that they do want conflicts to be very very quickly so there’s that.

It’s been 4 weeks now, so I’m not really ready to call it a quagmire since the Iraq invasion took much longer and destroyed more infrastructure and killed a lot more civilians; yet that invasion is lauded as Perfection in Military all the time.

We shall see.
Would say if you want the conflict over quickly you go in hard and fast. If you are attacking you have the choice of time and place. You also have the time to set up and energize your logistics routes. You should also have the time to ensure you have the trucks and drivers needed; your table of organization and equipment should reflect the requirements. Doesn't take that long, a few weeks, to train drivers. In first-class militaries, trucks and truck drivers are important. They get the stuff/people where it needs to go. Poor planning on Russia's part.

Some other things...

If this is correct, that's a page from my namesake's playbook, and something guaranteed to make that river of bad blood between Russia and Ukraine even deeper and wider.




Lastly, something from Victor Davis Hanson. No link available.

10 Realities of Ukraine​

We should not rehash the past but learn from it — and thereby ensure Putin is defeated now and deterred in the future.

One
Reassuring an enemy what one will not do ensures that the enemy will do just that and more. Unpredictability and occasional enigmatic silence bolster deterrence. But President Joe Biden’s predictable reassurance to Russian President Vladimir Putin that he will show restraint means Putin likely will not.

Two
— No-fly zones don’t work in a big-power, symmetrical standoff. In a cost-benefit analysis, they are not worth the risk of shooting down the planes of a nuclear power. They usually do little to stop planes outside of such zones shooting missiles into them. Sending long-range, high-altitude anti-aircraft batteries to Ukraine to deny Russian air superiority is a far better way of regaining air parity.

Three — Europe, NATO members, and Germany in particular have de facto admitted that their past decades of shutting down nuclear plants, coal mines, and oil and gas fields have left Europe at the mercy of Russia. They are promising to rearm and meet their promised military contributions. By their actions, they are admitting that their critics, the United States in particular, were right, and they were dangerously wrong in empowering Putin.

Four — China is now pro-Russian. Beijing wants Russian natural resources at a discount. Russia will pay for overpriced access to Chinese finance, commerce, and markets. Yet if Russia loses the Ukraine war, goes broke, and as an international pariah is ostracized, then China will likely cut the smelly Russian albatross from its neck — in fear of new Western financial, cultural, and commercial clout.

Five — Americans are finally digesting just how destructive the humiliating flight from Afghanistan was. The catastrophe signaled to Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran that Western deterrence had died.

No surprise that Russia sent missiles into a Ukrainian base near the Polish-NATO border. North Korea in January launched more missiles than in any month in its history. Iran sent missiles into Kurdistan. China announces daily it is just a matter of time until it absorbs Taiwan. The tens of billions of dollars of sophisticated weaponry sent to Ukraine by the West are still far less than what the U.S. military handed over to the terrorist Taliban.

Six — The Ukraine war did not cause inflation and record gas prices. Both were already spiking by early February 2022.

The cause was the Biden Administration’s year-long radical expansion of the money supply at a time of post-COVID, pent-up consumer demand. It foolishly continued de facto zero-interest rates. Its generous COVID subsidies for the unemployed discouraged a return to work,
while slashing U.S. oil and gas production and pipelines.

Prior to Putin’s invasion, Biden was quite publicly blaming greedy corporations, oil companies, COVID, and former President Donald Trump for the inflation he had birthed in 2021. And he was claiming undeniable high prices were only temporary or mostly an obsession of the elite.

Seven
Putin did not invade during the Trump tenure, although he had been more aggressive under previous American leadership with his prior attacks on Georgia, Ukraine, and Crimea. Russia stayed still when oil prices were low, fuel supplies in the West were plentiful, and the United States was confident. When the U.S. was neither bogged down in optional military interventions nor led by a president predictably accommodating to Russian aggressions, Russia stayed quiet.

Putin took note of increased NATO and U.S. defense spending. He feared low global oil prices and record American oil and gas production. He was wary after unpredictable American strikes against enemies like ISIS, Abu al-Baghdadi, and the Iranian General Qasem Soleimani.

Eight
— It is not “escalation” to send arms to Ukraine. The Russians far more aggressively supplied the North Koreans and North Vietnamese in their wars against America, without spreading the war globally. Pakistan, Syria, and Iran sent deadly weapons — many in turn supplied to them by Russia, North Korea, and China — to kill thousands of Americans during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

Nine
Putin may never fully absorb Ukraine as long as it can easily be supplied across its borders by four NATO countries. The U.S. deadlocked in the Korean War, lost the Vietnam War, was stalled in Iraq, and fled Afghanistan in part because its enemies were easily supplied by nearby border friends on the assumption the U.S. could not strike such abettors.

Ten
It is not “un-American” to point out that prior American appeasement under the Obama and the Biden Administrations explains not why Putin wished to go into Ukraine, but why he felt he could. It is not “treasonous” to say Ukraine and the United States previously should have stayed out of each other’s domestic affairs and politics — but still do not excuse Putin’s savage aggression. It is not traitorous to admit that Russia for centuries relied on buffer states between Europe — lost when its Warsaw Pact satellite members joined NATO after its defeat in the Cold War. But that reality also does not justify Putin’s savage attack.

We should not rehash the past but learn from it — and thereby ensure Putin is defeated now and deterred in the future.
 
What the fuck does that have to do with Ivan suddenly losing all his access to money so he can't pay his bills? Ordinary people had no say in anything that happened.
Dude, as much as I'd love to be some magical way to preasure Putin without bringing any poor, blameless russian into it, there is none. Vladimir Putin ordered invasion on Ukraine, threatening stability of basically whole world.

Sorry, but we have to wage war our own way. And to be frank, I think that sanctioning Russians is way more humane than bombing their cities, like Russians do in Ukraine.
 
Ok, so what west is supposed to do: express concern, or share thoughts and prayers?
I know it’s a novel idea, but we could try staying the fuck out of things that don’t concern us - for once.

Oh, but then there’s that whole US political class using Ukraine as a money launderer, and the loss of that really has your imagined betters in a tiff. That, coupled with the potential exposure of just how demonically corrupt they are just can’t be tolerated.

Some of you really need to wake up to reality.
 
trying to make russians hate putin and love america is not the point. the point is inflicting damage to the russian economy at large because that is the only available way to indirectly damage the russian state.
Years of sanctions worked so well when we did it to Iraq and Saddam was deposed only when we bombed and invaded. And looks like its really working in Venezuela, who's petroleum is back on the American menu lmao.
 
I know it’s a novel idea, but we could try staying the fuck out of things that don’t concern us - for once.

Oh, but then there’s that whole US political class using Ukraine as a money launderer, and the loss of that really has your imagined betters in a tiff. That, coupled with the potential exposure of just how demonically corrupt they are just can’t be tolerated.

Some of you really need to wake up to reality.
Well, I'm polish and Putin demanded NATO to leave Poland. War in Ukraine is in my personal and national concerne and I'm glad that Russia is heavily sanctioned.

I hope they will get sanctioned more, until cogs and gears of war machine will no longer spin.
 
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