War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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Interesting bit of info regarding "separatist republics". I've heard reports that Russian forces just grabbed people off the streets there and sent them toward Ukrainian positions to die. Thousands of people, often regular men, such as teachers, mechanics and whatnot.
It's what Russia always did with "People's Republics" under it's direct rule, drain them dry of resources and use the people as human shields and cannon fodder, hell, both those separatist republic's only real reason for being was as a buffer between Russia and NATO/EU aligned states not because dada Putin cares about the safety and well being of Russian speaking populations, Russia loves using such people as an excuse to stage interventions but it usually results in more of them dying then would have died if Russia just fucked off.

If it's true that 90% of the forces those separatist republics have mobilized is KIA/WIA/MIA that really tells one all they need to know about how much Russia cares about it's supposed allies.

Gotta wonder how Lukashenko feels about his Russia's bitch status right now.
 
It's what Russia always did with "People's Republics" under it's direct rule, drain them dry of resources and use the people as human shields and cannon fodder, hell, both those separatist republic's only real reason for being was as a buffer between Russia and NATO/EU aligned states not because dada Putin cares about the safety and well being of Russian speaking populations, Russia loves using such people as an excuse to stage interventions but it usually results in more of them dying then would have died if Russia just fucked off.

If it's true that 90% of the forces those separatist republics have mobilized is KIA/WIA/MIA that really tells one all they need to know about how much Russia cares about it's supposed allies.

Gotta wonder how Lukashenko feels about his Russia's bitch status right now.
Without Putin Lukashenko is dead meat.

Considering that premise of this entire invasion is to supposedly protect Russian population of Ukraine, specifically "separatist" regions, using them as cannon fodder and bombing cities like Kharkiv, which had large Russia-aligned population, is, as they say "a bad look".
If Russians weren't zombified, this would've been the end of it.
 
the way I heard it, he wasn't banned as a person but as a rep for Russia and could still compete somehow under neutral flag ... not 100% on this though
Nah this is separate to the general ban on Russians/Belarussians competing under their own flag. Sergey was banned on an individual level which is a big deal when you're talking about a top 20 player who could potentially have challenged for the world championship again next year
 
Without Putin Lukashenko is dead meat.

Considering that premise of this entire invasion is to supposedly protect Russian population of Ukraine, specifically "separatist" regions, using them as cannon fodder and bombing cities like Kharkiv, which had large Russia-aligned population, is, as they say "a bad look".
If Russians weren't zombified, this would've been the end of it.
Russians used the same excuse to invade Poland during WW2, to protect Russian population from Nazis, and they were welcomed until they started doing what Russians do, raping, pillaging and making it obvious they're actually just there to take their part of the deal with Germans.
 
Without Putin Lukashenko is dead meat.

Considering that premise of this entire invasion is to supposedly protect Russian population of Ukraine, specifically "separatist" regions, using them as cannon fodder and bombing cities like Kharkiv, which had large Russia-aligned population, is, as they say "a bad look".
If Russians weren't zombified, this would've been the end of it.
That's because once the people in LPR and DPR are dead, Moscow can send some poor Russians ot settle there. This is a tactic they use ever since the Russian Empire
 
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Big pinch of salt on this one - former internal affairs minister of Ukraine claims an intercept puts Russian losses at 17k, if Wagner Group (and I also presume LHR & DNR) losses are included.

Not completely unbelievable, but unverified regardless.
 
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Big pinch of salt on this one - former internal affairs minister of Ukraine claims an intercept puts Russian losses at 17k, if Wagner Group (and I also presume LHR & DNR) losses are included.

Not completely unbelievable, but unverified regardless.
I hear Wagner is actively trying to recruit as many people as possible across Russia, and to that end their standards were lowered quite a bit, they're apparently taking in anyone who held weapon at least once before (all Russian conscripts do, and some just once or twice in their entire year of mandatory service kek... to shoot 3 rounds, if that).
The pay is shit btw, 60k rubles a month if I'm not mistaken, plus bonus for every day in battle - for risking your life it's fucking nothing. But considering lack of jobs in the dying economy, it could be enticing for a lot of retards. That's if they even survive, still no guarantee they'll be paid.

What I'm saying is that the quality of their combatants isn't anything to write home about, and is only going to worsen, which would mean increased losses. Especially coupled with bad logistics.
 
Except again, most of the populace is supportive of the new government, whereas the old one had people protesting against it.

Again, all your nonsense falls apart when you see the people willing to fight and die for the pro-American government of Ukraine. Meanwhile, the pro-Russian Ukraine government was GUNNING DOWN PROTESTERS. It's quite obvious which side the Ukrainians chose.

Stop replying to the circular retard. Fuck's sake.

I hear Wagner is actively trying to recruit as many people as possible across Russia, and to that end their standards were lowered quite a bit, they're apparently taking in anyone who held weapon at least once before (all Russian conscripts do, and some just once or twice in their entire year of mandatory service kek... to shoot 3 rounds, if that).
The pay is shit btw, 60k rubles a month if I'm not mistaken, plus bonus for every day in battle - for risking your life it's fucking nothing. But considering lack of jobs in the dying economy, it could be enticing for a lot of retards. That's if they even survive, still no guarantee they'll be paid.

What I'm saying is that the quality of their combatants isn't anything to write home about, and is only going to worsen, which would mean increased losses. Especially coupled with bad logistics.

It's surprising if so, the whole point of Wagner was it was the cream of the crop to ensure russian interests could be advanced and was thus more made of volunteers with actual experience. It's obviously a hellish war if they're having to barrel scrape like this, and the fact Railway Division and Orchestral troops are now holding rifles on checkpoints suggest the concrete under said barrel is beginning to be worn away.
 
Stop replying to the circular retard. Fuck's sake.



It's surprising if so, the whole point of Wagner was it was the cream of the crop to ensure russian interests could be advanced and was thus more made of volunteers with actual experience. It's obviously a hellish war if they're having to barrel scrape like this, and the fact Railway Division and Orchestral troops are now holding rifles on checkpoints suggest the concrete under said barrel is beginning to be worn away.
It would've been funny if it wasn't so sad. Now I know at least one person who got wounded after being sent there, and he's among the lucky ones, since it's not serious and he was sent back.
 
@Mr E. Grifter Quote bug, so let me just drop this:

US has already seen the need and adopted a solution: a 30mm autocannon with VT fuses and some cheap guided missiles on wheels. Those missile pods are also modular, and can be swapped out for everything from Hellfires to Hydra rockets to Sidewinders.
Not quite new as the U.S. Army have/had the Bradley Linebacker variant with quad Stinger pack instead of TOW launcher for short range AA defense. Still they have been looking for better SHORAD options like what you posted.
 
It's surprising if so, the whole point of Wagner was it was the cream of the crop to ensure russian interests could be advanced and was thus more made of volunteers with actual experience. It's obviously a hellish war if they're having to barrel scrape like this, and the fact Railway Division and Orchestral troops are now holding rifles on checkpoints suggest the concrete under said barrel is beginning to be worn away.
Call me ignorant, but was not part of the reason for using Wagner Group also the plausible* deniability. They could behave in abhorrent ways, engage Western forces and the Russian connection could be denied even when it was plain for all to see?

In relation to Ukraine this seems less useful regarding how they interact with the local population, Russia seems to have zero qualms in acting like the worst of the worst of war criminals now that they aren't having things their own way. It may be useful in that losses that are attributed to Wagner Group are not official losses and will never need to be acknowledged publicly. Therefore you could send retards to their deaths with minimal repercussions compared to if you did it with Russia's official armed forces. This is just speculative on my part, fuck knows if that post by the ex-interior minister is being truthful here.

*plausible to literally brain dead retards who would blindly support Russia Putin in anything he does because they are the very definition of the word cuckold when it comes to a geriatric ex-KGB spook.
 
Call me ignorant, but was not part of the reason for using Wagner Group also the plausible* deniability. They could behave in abhorrent ways, engage Western forces and the Russian connection could be denied even when it was plain for all to see?

In relation to Ukraine this seems less useful regarding how they interact with the local population, Russia seems to have zero qualms in acting like the worst of the worst of war criminals now that they aren't having things their own way. It may be useful in that losses that are attributed to Wagner Group are not official losses and will never need to be acknowledged publicly. Therefore you could send retards to their deaths with minimal repercussions compared to if you did it with Russia's official armed forces. This is just speculative on my part, fuck knows if that post by the ex-interior minister is being truthful here.

*plausible to literally brain dead retards who would blindly support Russia Putin in anything he does because they are the very definition of the word cuckold when it comes to a geriatric ex-KGB spook.

Pretty much. Mind it used a bunch of active russian military sites to train itself so might as well be part of it.

Estimates put the wagner group around 6,000+ or so and they were spread between Syria and Mali (where the French have lost in their policing action as a result of the coup d'etat) so if they're now trying to expand their ranks further, or replace losses is anyone's guess.

Wagners probably the most "professional" element of Russian forces so this rumoured change is something of note as it hints they've either been used incorrectly (As really they were an unofficial SPECOPS unit) or have been torn a new arse by the Ukranian defences.

British Army mate of mine says that you need ten times the men to overwhelm defences, so probably another reason Russian losses are so horrible.
 
Pretty much. Mind it used a bunch of active russian military sites to train itself so might as well be part of it.

Estimates put the wagner group around 6,000+ or so and they were spread between Syria and Mali (where the French have lost in their policing action as a result of the coup d'etat) so if they're now trying to expand their ranks further, or replace losses is anyone's guess.

Wagners probably the most "professional" element of Russian forces so this rumoured change is something of note as it hints they've either been used incorrectly (As really they were an unofficial SPECOPS unit) or have been torn a new arse by the Ukranian defences.

British Army mate of mine says that you need ten times the men to overwhelm defences, so probably another reason Russian losses are so horrible.
Wagner Group is a PMC in the name only, it's financed and ran through Kremlin-connected subsidiaries.
One doesn't just create an entity like this without government's approval in Russia.

Yes, it's mainly for deniability. For the past 8 years Russia kept saying "We aren't there" regarding Donbass, despite it being common knowledge that Russian "volunteers" (often FSB officers who conveniently left their post to go there), to the point that it became a meme ("Нас там нет"). It's some ridiculous shit.
 
British Army mate of mine says that you need ten times the men to overwhelm defences, so probably another reason Russian losses are so horrible.
Usually the ratio in British doctrine is attackers should have 3 to 1 superiority over the defenders.

However, realistically this is just a number. You could require more or less depending on what assets you have, and what training they have received. 3 to 1 in a killing area with no support against HMGs is just going to get you killed, but with mortar support would be fine.

Russia doesn't dominate the air, their armour is not being utilised effectively, and their artillery is hardly having its own way either. So what does Russia have to tip the balance?

Mind you, it seems yet again Russia has forgotten what capabilities they gave to Ukraine. This time - static defense positions!
 
NATO is a military alliance that was created to ensure the defense of Europe from Soviet aggression. After the Soviet Union's fall, it evolved into more of general defensive alliance. Russia even tried to join at one point.
Focus on your own words and you shall spot the cognitive dissonance:
  • NATO is a general defensive alliance; defensive against what or whom? What is their defensive track record?
  • Russia tried to join; why didn't it manage to join? Would it be able to join today if it expressed a wish to do so? When did Russia wanted to join and why that did not happen?
A government collapsing because of its own corruption=/=a foreign nation overthrowing another nation's government.
Why not both? When all it takes is a little push OR if the coupmasters were somehow involved in the corruption...?
A government being "democratically elected" means jack shit if said government is the puppet of a foreign power, outright undermining his country's interest, and is completely corrupt. Its what you keep overlooking here.
Bingo.
A single excerpt of a phone call, intercepted by the Russians mind you, already making it suspect, is supposed to indicate what exactly?
What is suspect about it?
That America was figuring out how to steer itself in an evolving situation and maintain influence with a potential new government, and were butting heads with the EU because both sides were not sure how to proceed with responding to the collapse of the Ukrainian government in real time? If anything, it shows how little control over the situation the U.S. and E.U. had, since they were literally at a loss for how to proceed and had fundamental disagreements over the situation.
This is an enormous reach. The transcript was leaked before the president was removed and the content of the transcript strongly suggests that the US was shaping the government, not just "maintaining influence" in a benign manner.

Besides, what influence should US have in a sovereign country? Asking in earnest, because to me it sounds very imperialistic. And make no mistake, I'll shit the same on Russia whenever it tries to stir trouble in Kazakhstan, Baltics, Poland or wherever else.
 
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Focus on your own words and you shall spot the cognitive dissonance:
  • NATO is a general defensive alliance; defensive against what or whom? What is their defensive track record?
  • Russia tried to join; why didn't it manage to join? Would it be able to join today if it expressed a wish to do so? When did Russia wanted to join and why that did not happen?

Why not both? When all it takes is a little push OR if the coupmasters were somehow involved in the corruption...?

Bingo.

What is suspect about it?

This is an enormous reach. The transcript was leaked before the president was removed and the content of the transcript strongly suggests that the US was shaping the government, not just "maintaining influence" in a benign manner.

Besides, what influence should US have in a sovereign country? Asking in earnest, because to me it sounds very imperialistic. And make no mistake, I'll shit the same on Russia whenever it tries to stir trouble in Kazakhstan, Baltics, Poland or wherever else.


Do you know what is the difference between countries that fall under the aegis of Nato and those that fall under the aegis of Russia? Countries under NATO's umbrella tend to thrive and prosper, while countries that are "allied" with Russia tend to get ass-fucked by Russia. I certainly can't understand why anyone would rather ally with NATO than Russia.
 
Yes. That is when the coup was. Immediately after the coup, the rewrote they Constitution. That's uh...not how democracies work.

So, they overthrew the democratically elected government in 2014. Then they rewrote the Constitution after that, to make NATO a priority. Putin then responded by invading Crimea, to make Ukraine entering NATO not possible. That was literally the reasoning for taking Crimea.

Were you not aware of the timeline?

you are saying that they rewrote constitution ... then in Feb-March of 2014 Putin responded with annexation (i.e. with an armed coup)

'except that you provide a link about NATO vote in Dec of 2014 ... which tool place 9 mo AFTER Putin responded to this vote ... :story:


No reason to lie here, we're all friends.

"Ukraine's parliament has voted to abandon the country's neutral "non-bloc" status and set a course for NATO membership, a move immediately denounced by Russia as "unfriendly." ~December 23, 2014


Unless you really didn't know. Now that you do, does that change your opinion?

You clearly have no idea how parliamentary procedures work, which is probably the reason you are so confused about timing/coups/rewriting among other things. Ukraine has been adjusting the balance of power between democratically elected president and democratically elected parliament, which seem to confuse the piss out of people. Regardless, Yanuk left at his own accord, by himself, at his own will. Democratically elected parliament stayed and ensured election of the next president according to the existing laws.


Parliament can vote on anything, they can vote on 1+1=10 if they like. Someone can make a proposal, make a speech, debates and everyone votes, vote is recorded. They vote on all kinds of shit, in fact the whole NATO debate had been voted and debated barillion times.

"an ammendment" to the Ukrainian constitution was added in 2019, like a said before, that codifies country's direction toward joining of NATO and EU. The constitution itself has not been re-written since it's adoption in 1996.

And just in case ... membership in NATO is a long process that requires a long roadmap to meet standards and reforms. This is especially difficult for countries that are armed with Warsaw pact weapons/ammo which don't interchanges with NATO standards. Baltic states, despite being small countries, it took them 12 years to get to NATO. Ukraine is not even close.
 
How dare the plebians rebel against a very greedy fuck, whose greed and stupidity during his tenure as president was exceeded only by Lukashenka and a few Central Asian shitholes.
Yes, the plebians just revelled and never mind that his dentist son (who drowned very suspiciously after his father outlived his usefulness) became one of the richest people in Ukraine virtually overnight after his father became president.

Sasha The Dentist.

Jesus, you rightoid fringe niggers are just something else entirely.
 
Do you know what is the difference between countries that fall under the aegis of Nato and those that fall under the aegis of Russia? Countries under NATO's umbrella tend to thrive and prosper, while countries that are "allied" with Russia tend to get ass-fucked by Russia. I certainly can't understand why anyone would rather ally with NATO than Russia.
Firstly, what has to do with anything I have written?

Secondly, I kinda-sorta might have some picture of what you're talking about, living in Poland, working (in the past, but after 2014) with Ukrainians and all.

Thirdly, I don't recognize that as a function of being in NATO, at least in Poland's case. That would be more the matter of being integrated in EU economy while having own currency still.

Lastly, I am confident that the prosperity is ending already. I'm already paying for some products 80-150% more than I did about a year ago and some of it is the result of sanctions being placed, first on Belarus, now on Russia. I've stated on another thread that the sanction game will in the long term hurt the EU a lot more than Russia, turning us into literal Europoors. Some were laughing at me, like I was crazy or something. Frankly, I didn't find it laughable back then and even less so now.
 
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