Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

JamesFargo said:
At the time it had the weakest cast of any Trek. Lots of ludicrous episodes and it morphed into Gilligan's Island too quickly. DS9 is more cerebral, witty, socially conscious.

Divorced from the original bad associations I had with the show, it's still better than STD/Picard and all the other filth they slapped a Trek label on. There are some very strong performances on the show and it is, overall, entertaining Trek.

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Late and gay, but that and the image sum it up. Original Trek was not my generation and Voyager was my introduction to it. In hindsight and older I do notice the flaws more, but it did have good episodes and actors with solid perfomances more than bad ones. For everyone sperging about Janeway being "proto SJW", I never noticed that when first watching it and neither now.
I am biased, but Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) did manage to win me over. I just wish they would have played more consistently into her development from staunchly principled, to bending the rules to keep her crew alive owing to their unique situation and subsequent bonding and her own character traits such as maternal empathy being a double edged sword.
EMH (Picardo) could polish a turd and did turn some of the silliest episodes around by carrying it. and I would have loved to see more series with the TNG and Voyager characters having crossovers while progressing forward.
I enjoyed Seven (Ryan) and the Borg, people say she cannot act, but for what it's worth any wooden acting worked well with the character back then. Also for whatever reason the duets between Seven and EMH were great. The Captn Proton episode remain a guilty pleasure too.
(Fuck the endless amounts of shuttles though! That shit was ridiculous)

With now having Picard, TNG and Voyager characters and established lore dragged through shit by Turdman I look with even more fondness back on VOY and TNG while trying really hard not to let Stewart's current involvement tarnish his past work.
At least RLM give me some bittersweet comedic relief, as they suffer through episodes of Picard. However I still do not understand how they enjoyed Abrahams ST movies aside from the eye candy.
 
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JamesFargo said:
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My headcanon is once voyager returned Harry Kim said fuck this, resigned his commission and opened a music gallery on earth or something. Never made more than an ensign. Aggressively happy about the fact.

Dr. Troon Lagoon said:
Late and gay, but that and the image sum it up. Original Trek was not my generation and Voyager was my introduction to it. In hindsight and older I do notice the flaws more, but it did have good episodes and actors with solid perfomances more than bad ones. For everyone sperging about Janeway being "proto SJW", I never noticed that when first watching it and neither now.
I am biased, but Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) did manage to win me over. I just wish they would have played more consistently into her development from staunchly principled, to bending the rules to keep her crew alive owing to their unique situation and subsequent bonding and her own character traits such as maternal empathy being a double edged sword.
EMH (Picardo) could polish a turd and did turn some of the silliest episodes around by carrying it. and I would have loved to see more series with the TNG and Voyager characters having crossovers while progressing forward.
I enjoyed Seven (Ryan) and the Borg, people say she cannot act, but for what it's worth any wooden acting worked well with the character back then. Also for whatever reason the duets between Seven and EMH were great. The Captn Proton episode remain a guilty pleasure too.
(Fuck the endless amounts of shuttles though! That shit was ridiculous)

With now having Picard, TNG and Voyager characters and established lore dragged through shit by Turdman I look with even more fondness back on VOY and TNG while trying really hard not to let Stewart's current involvement tarnish his past work.
At least RLM give me some bittersweet comedic relief, as they suffer through episodes of Picard. However I still do not understand how they enjoyed Abrahams ST movies aside from the eye candy.
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People keep bringing up they'd want more of a Battlestar Galactica feel to Voyager but personally I'd have been fine with them doing pretty well for themselves. But I'd have liked more of a focus on exploration. They missed a golden opportunity to put in some truly alien creatures, galactic wonders, things we only occasionally see in TNG and DS9. With Voyager the Delta Quadrant is pretty much the same as the Alpha. Massive missed opportunity.
 
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Goodbye Horses said:
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Tasha Yar's sister is so much hotter. Imagine the absolute unit of a bush she had. Besides, Jeri Ryan is the reason a nigger got elected president so fuck that cunt.
 
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WhatIsThePunchline said:
People keep bringing up they'd want more of a Battlestar Galactica feel to Voyager but personally I'd have been fine with them doing pretty well for themselves. But I'd have liked more of a focus on exploration. They missed a golden opportunity to put in some truly alien creatures, galactic wonders, things we only occasionally see in TNG and DS9. With Voyager the Delta Quadrant is pretty much the same as the Alpha. Massive missed opportunity.
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You don't need a full BSG feel to Voyager, just a sense that they are "alone." Anywhere from 50% to 90% of the episodes you could take and drop them into TNG and you wouldn't have to rewrite anything. As I've said multiple times, you can even use the situation for comedy, the key remains that you keep the sense of it as serious and real. i.e. Janeway is dealing with some belligerent alien and is threatening to blow him away when Chakotay reminds her they are down to only 2 torpedoes and need to visit the Delta-walmart. So then Janeway has to bluff her way through the scene. (Yeah yeah, they did that in the ds9 pilot.) See? The scene could be done completely comedic, but it still maintains the verisimilitude of the show. That's all Voyager had to do: take advantage of its premise.
 
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ForgottenUserName said:
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Tasha Yar's sister is so much hotter. Imagine the absolute unit of a bush she had. Besides, Jeri Ryan is the reason a nigger got elected president so fuck that cunt.
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That's a very sad episode and another more piece of evidence of how good life has made Starfleet naive and too easy to fool. Isn't even the first time any other race took advantage of them for being like this. Say anything you want about the third world, but living down here really sharpens a lot of survival skills.
 
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L50LasPak said:
The CGI in TOS Remastered is hideous. 2009 was not the height of CGI at all and I think the studio was well aware of this. The producers claimed that the 60s effects looked too dated, but son of a bitch, TOSR was dated just a few years after it was released. It looks worse than every single Star Trek fanfilm or even those analysis channels that pull up CGI models of starships to talk about released since it came out.
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What were they to do? Have a HD remaster with really shitty VFX shots because they couldn't be remastered?
 
Screamer said:
What were they to do? Have a HD remaster with really shitty VFX shots because they couldn't be remastered?
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Maybe put actual money into the CGI effects instead of paying three interns some pocket lint and a gum wrapper to do it? DS9 and Voyager had decent CGI, why does TOSR look like a History Channel show?
 
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L50LasPak said:
Maybe put actual money into the CGI effects instead of paying three interns some pocket lint and a gum wrapper to do it? DS9 and Voyager had decent CGI, why does TOSR look like a History Channel show?
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If you think the CGI in the TOS remaster is bad. Check out the CGI in the From the Earth to the Moon HBO remaster which is only from a couple of years ago. They couldn't even bother using an accurate CGI model of the Lunar Lander.

IIRC, I think they just used their internal VFX team for the TOS remaster. So you're probably not far off with it being interns. As opposed to contracting out to a VFX house, but the issue is cost.

Side note, the TNG remaster had the effects contracted out, which lead to inconsistencies in how well the effects were remastered between seasons. With different effects houses doing different seasons.

They aren't willing to spend the money to remaster DS9 and Voyager. So that can tell you why they didn't do the highest quality work for TOS.
 
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I'll also state for the record that the studio has never too my knowledge released a demo reel of the original TOS VFX remastered to HD to show us exactly why it doesn't work. Is it really so hard to just release a few screenshots showing that the boom is now visible in the shot or something? And is it really impossible to digitally touch that up, so much so that you must start over, from scratch, altogether? Even with today's technology?

If there is test footage of this around then I'll retract my criticism, but I'd bet actual money the alternatives weren't even considered.
 
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L50LasPak said:
I'll also state for the record that the studio has never too my knowledge released a demo reel of the original TOS VFX remastered to HD to show us exactly why it doesn't work. Is it really so hard to just release a few screenshots showing that the boom is now visible in the shot or something? And is it really impossible to digitally touch that up, so much so that you must start over, from scratch, altogether? Even with today's technology?

If there is test footage of this around then I'll retract my criticism, but I'd bet actual money the alternatives weren't even considered.
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The TOS remaster was done from 35 mm prints of the finished episodes. They didn't have the elements to re-composite the original effects as they did with TNG.

Just a scanned version of the finished episodes. Which was digitally cleaned up.

They have released on blu-ray those original effects in HD. You can check out a comparison below.

The process used to composite the original effects degraded the image quality. So they didn't look great.

Here's a comparison of a HD scan of an original effect, compared to the CGI.

mantrap-HD-planet_old.jpgmantrap-HD-planet_new.jpg

Source
 
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Screamer said:
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That is an extremely informative article on the subject, I stand corrected. Though I do want to comment on a few things.

While we tend to quickly forget, the 40th anniversary year (2006) was actually a rather bleak time. Star Trek: Enterprise had been canceled after only 4 seasons the year before. Many Trek products were put on semi-permanent hold or canceled outright. Organizationally Star Trek as a franchise was a mess because of the big Viacom split up that occurred in late-2005. The split resulted in all kinds of purging of Star Trek archives on the Paramount lot through auctions. Later on, while TOS-R was actively being produced, StarTrek.com was shut down for over 2-years (2007), and Star Trek: The Experience in Las Vegas was dismantled (2008).
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I was wrong about the date, for some reason I thought TOSR was 2009 rather than 2006. I'm not even really sure why I thought it was that year, but this changes a few things. The fuckery going on with the company and Enterprise taking a nose dive just a year prior means they probably did have a small budget to work with, and some of TOSR was rushed out the door to coincide with the 40th Anniversary of the show. I get the impression the suits didn't really believe in it, even if the staff working on it did.

L50LasPak said:
TOSR, which often looks like an episode of History Channel's Dogfights.
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Also the date change explains this comparison I made earlier. As it turns out:
dogfights release date.png

It does look like Dogfights because they're literally from the same era. Possibly even done on the same software. I suppose them looking similar isn't exactly damning with that in mind.

Screamer said:
Just a scanned version of the finished episodes. Which was digitally cleaned up.

They have released on blu-ray those original effects in HD. You can check out a comparison below.
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The original is indeed quite ragged, but its not like it looks unwatchable even compared to the new effects.

For awhile there (up until apparently 2016) it was rather difficult to come across the original unremastered episodes since TV broadcasts, recent DVD releases, the CBS website and streaming services like Netflix switched over fully to TOSR. I recall somewhere around 2013 I had to get the unremastered series off a dodgy Portuguese torrent because TOSR had so totally supplanted it even on pirating sites. For quite a few years it seemed like it was going the way of the Remastered Star Wars movies.

I do stand by my statement that TOSR is hideous though. CGI ages very badly and for some reason the videogamey CGI of the late 2000s has aged especially badly. Particularly the way it handles light and reflections seems to be clumsy, and sometimes the models end up moving in weird unintuitive ways. I was never happy with Balance of Terror or The Tholian Web's remasters for instance. Balance of Terror is a glaring example because some of the effects shots in the original episode look objectively terrible and really could stand to be replaced, but in TOSR we ended up with an Romulan ship that seems to unrealistically teeter and bob around like a mylar weather balloon.
 
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