Artcow WogglebugLoveProductions / Cynthia Hanson / Cherie Anne Hapney - One Womanchild's Fruitless Quest to Make Her Cockroach Husbando a Household Name

[Sanic]

The Wogglebug must be a beast in bed.

 

[Fredegunde]

@WogglebugLover -- Let's say you're right: Oz fans are delusional losers who idolize all the other characters while irrationally hating on the Wogglebug for no good reason.

You can either:
A. Spend your entire life trying to stick it to them, while still being an unemployed recluse who doesn't leave her house or engage in meaningful activities with real people because she's self-conscious about her teeth.
B. Decide that you're a better person than that and focus on working on your actual, real-life problems, not on what a bunch of stupid Oz fans think. Even if your teeth would be expensive and take a long time to fix, you can start now. There are plenty of people who have visible disabilities or deformities who still go out and interact with people. Like, anyone who rejects you because of your teeth isn't someone you wanted to be friends with anyway.

Do you really think A looks like the best option here?

 

[Sanae Kochiya]

It is absolutely amazing how much time and effort you have put into this thing, how much thought and how many hours of your life you have poured into this project, how much of your future, dedication, and dreams are ultimately committed to what is essentially fanfiction of an animated insect that no one has fucking cared for in years.

I'm honestly confused here. You don't spaz out, you don't seem fairly insane, hell, you sound fairly normal when all things are considered. I'm normally not one to piss on someone's dreams but your project has less of a chance of catching on than Sonichu.

The Wogglebug isn't yours. Even in the unlikely event this takes off, you will find that the amazing world of copyright is cruel and unforgiving.

 

[HickoryDickory]

It is absolutely amazing how much time and effort you have put into this thing, how much thought and how many hours of your life you have poured into this project, how much of your future, dedication, and dreams are ultimately committed to what is essentially fanfiction of an animated insect that no one has fucking cared for in years.

I'm honestly confused here. You don't spaz out, you don't seem fairly insane, hell, you sound fairly normal when all things are considered. I'm normally not one to piss on someone's dreams but your project has less of a chance of catching on than Sonichu.

The Wogglebug isn't yours. Even in the unlikely event this takes off, you will find that the amazing world of copyright is cruel and unforgiving.

Woggle is public domain, so she doesn't have to worry.

 

[CatFace]

Woggle is public domain, so she doesn't have to worry.

Still doesn't change that it isn't her creation. She goes out of her way to piss off Oz fans, this is never going anywhere.

 

[HickoryDickory]

Still doesn't change that it isn't her creation. She goes out of her way to piss off Oz fans, this is never going anywhere.

Oh, I know. She just has the right to use it without infringing, doesn't mean it's a good idea. She could very well make her own original creation instead and just forget that Oz ever existed and her animosity, but she won't because she's obsessed with a cockroach that no one else cares about.

 

[ActualKiwi]

Oh, I know. She just has the right to use it without infringing, doesn't mean it's a good idea. She could very well make her own original creation instead and just forget that Oz ever existed and her animosity, but she won't because she's obsessed with a cockroach that no one else cares about.

I wonder how she'd react if someone turned up at her front door in a wogglebug-fursuit.

 

[HickoryDickory]

I wonder how she'd react if someone turned up at her front door in a wogglebug-fursuit.

Just change Tracey to Terry.

 

[Cubanodun]

Alright, I will.



I know that already. I'm not the one who needs to know that. It's the Oz fans who do as far as I'm concerned.

The classic is not muy fault IS THE COMMUNITY THAT HAS TO UNDERSTAND

It doesnt work that way dear,you dont see people making a franchise about jar jar binks because everyone in the star war fandom hate him ,if people doesnt give a shit is for a reason ,and you cant forcé your preference on others, or do i have to read the Amazon reviews of your Book ?

 

[WogglebugLover]

@Fredegunde You are at least making a point that I don't need to care about what a bunch of Oz fans think, or what any of my naysayers think. And I should be working on my problems in how I can resolve my financial situations, as well as any problems concerning getting my movies made and sold in profits, as well as get to more of the mood to do writing for my novels eventually at least. I told you I'm not so concerned about my teeth issues as to put them ahead of what really matters to me. My life may change again maybe for the better during next year, which I am really hoping it will. i'll just have to stick with things as they are for ow and wait until then and make my own progress along the way.

And for the record I've started talking about what I do a little bit in a few Oz social media groups on Facebook and thus far the results have been like a double-edged sword for me. But it's only the beginning.

@Sanae Kochiya and @HickoryDickory I am aware I might have created an original character if I'd wanted to. But I just prefer to use the Wogglebug in my visions. One, because he is in the public domain. Two, because I am aware not many people care about him and respect him. That's the point because I do and I want to be able to share the happiness he brings to me to many others in the world and especially younger ones. I feel very deeply he is just the sort of awesome fantasy role model I would have loved to have had as a child myself. Just as much as I feel it just needs to take place for him away from Oz and the other Oz characters as much as I can get away with. And I am really not worried about any legal battles or issues coming up. Certainly not anytime soon.

@Cubanodun I am aware I cannot actually force my preference on others. And I'm not trying to, either. And Jar-Jar Binks is very different from the Wogglebug for one being not in the public domain, and second being a very different character who is nowhere near as lovable and open to possibilities. I don't see the comparison very much. But maybe in a hundred years even if we're all not around then someone may prove us all wrong for all I know.

And I do know what some of my Amazon book reviews say. But for one thing they all refer to a different version of text and illustrations especially for one particular book. And I know where those reviews all came from. Why wouldn't I? You can't possibly think I am so gullible as to not know where they had come from you, can you? But regardless, I want you all to know that if I had a lot more of negative reviews of those books I would still be as proud of them as ever because I had put my own visions and hard work into them nonetheless and didn't do anything wrong or dishonest.

And because of this I am going to release my movie to come next year to both Amazon Instant Video and DVD sales. I may or may not surprise you all by releasing my movie earlier or later than I anticipate to. We'll see what happens.

@ActualKiwi Now it is my turn for to entertain a few thoughts. Speaking of a Wogglebug-suit (or costume) I'd been thinking that the character's latest avatar in my videos would do excellently well at serving for a costume for him in a broadway show titled The Wogglebug, for new generations in a way that would not flop this time. For one thing because the costume would be so much better, fun-looking, kid-friendly, and everything else would be better written and non Oz-related also.

And finally since I am going to release my movies to DVDs, regardless of what you may think of them, what sort of bonus features would want included on them. I may or may not consider them.

 

[NobleGreyHorse]

Speaking of a Wogglebug-suit (or costume) I'd been thinking that the character's latest avatar in my videos would do excellently well at serving for a costume for him in a broadway show titled The Wogglebug, for new generations in a way that would not flop this time. For one thing because the costume would be so much better, fun-looking, kid-friendly, and everything else would be better written and non Oz-related also.

Actually, I went and looked this up in The Oz Scrapbook, which is co-written by an English professor and one of the illustrators of the later Oz books. According to their research, the Broadway Woggle-Bug wasn't a financial failure because it wasn't kid-friendly or even because it wasn't well-written; the production company moved a decent amount of sheet music from the musical (compare today's movie or Broadway soundtrack albums). The main reason these two researchers found that the critics and audiences didn't embrace the musical was that its plot was too close to that of the original Oz musical. That's it. Not because of any critical flaw in it, as itself. The critics even said it was pleasant enough. It just bored audiences by being too much like what they had already seen. If, on the heels of Kung Fu Panda, I released a movie about an Asian sloth bear who becomes a martial arts genius and finds self-confidence with the help of a bunch of other animals, it would probably tank for the same reason -- being a blatant plot imitation of the other thing, and not providing audiences anything new.

 

[WogglebugLover]

@NobleGreyHorse Good points about the original Wogglebug musical. Yes, I do recall reading about how Baum was flawed in his understanding and skills as both an adapter of his own work and of a stage musical writer. He just thought he knew what audiences wanted to see (which he also believed was never what he happened to favor) and that if he just gave it to them all would turn out successfully. He may have been right (for his time) with the adaption he did of his first Oz book but he lacked the common sense you just explained about how audiences nonetheless want to see something unique with each viewing. A good rounded philosophy I read about in studying screenwriting is that if you have no complete originality to give than just "give them the same but different things." Which translates to take something old and give it as much as possible of a unique, different, original spin to it. If Baum was trying to do that with the Wogglebug musical (which may have been partly in fault because of Fred Stone and David Montgomery declining to reprise their roles so that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman weren't in this musical at all) he just needed a to work with a writing coach or adviser to guide him along the way.

I assure you I try to give unique and original stories in each of my movies, even if they do connect to each other and have elements in them of being inspired from other awesome fantasy and kids movies in places, they are still completely original visions. And if in the event I ever get around to doing the broadway musical also I'll remember about the importance of being unique and different there also.

 

[HickoryDickory]

@Fredegunde
And finally since I am going to release my movies to DVDs, regardless of what you may think of them, what sort of bonus features would want included on them. I may or may not consider them.

We aren't a marketing test group, Cynthia. You may as well work with Joe Cracker. He makes creature features, too.

 

[Sonnikku]

I'm frankly insulted that you actually suggested anyone but me could be better at bringing out my own visions. And I'm certainly not hiring any stranger to do my creative work for me. And I've paid so much for my movie making materials already and cannot afford to pay for anyone to do the animation for me evn if suppose I was willing to, which I'm not. Forget about it.

I really don't think you should be insulted regarding this statement. There are many talented artists and CGI animators out there who could really bring your ideas to life. Many of these artists are amateurs (like art students) who could use your project to help them improve their craft and possibly give it that "polish" that it needs. I know you've paid a pretty penny for what you've already done, but it's just a thought. Walt Disney had Ub Iwerks be the official artist and animator for his beloved Mickey Mouse and you see the success he had. Walt had a vision and direction for his character, but he wasn't at that point where he could get that perfection that was the hallmark for his work. He had to go outside to seek artists and animators who wanted that chance.

 

[WWWWolf]

I am aware I might have created an original character if I'd wanted to. But I just prefer to use the Wogglebug in my visions. One, because he is in the public domain. Two, because I am aware not many people care about him and respect him.

This got me thinking: you are aware that there are many other characters who you are allowed to use and which don't exactly get constant attention from the authors, right? Wogglebug isn't the only one that fits the criterion.

I'm only pointing this out because I had some discussions about the Cthulhu mythos with my friends, and it got me thinking of all of the other instances where authors share their worlds and characters with other authors. There's a lot of interesting shared universes out there, and not all get attention. (Even ones that are *ahem* considerably more kid-friendly than the Cthulhu mythos, which obviously isn't quite that.)

 

[Bugaboo]

Pixar movies are never made by one guy, why do you think you can make an entire animated movie (4 movies) by yourself?
Even if one person is animating usually you get a couple guys to bounce story ideas and ideas on how to best make a scene off of

 

[Sonnikku]

Definitely somewhat of a resurgence last century- I had a Jemina doll (one of the many types of gollywog) given to me as a kid, without any big kerfuffle about it.
Even so, this is probably going to further reduce the appeal of her franchise if there's anyone who makes the association..

As an African-American, I only learned about the Gollywog a few years ago. It was offensive then and it is now. England simply LOVE these horrible dolls. Personally, I wish I could find them all and kill them with fire. As for Baum, he was a racist and assumed his readers of the period also shared his views as well. So yeah, I have even noticed some folks here on this forum (myself included) felt that the first designs of the Wogglebug looked like a something from a minstrel show.

No fandom is an amorphous hive mind blob. It's certain members of the Oz fandom who you encountered on a couple of forums several years ago, not the fandom as a whole, who disliked Wogglebug and perhaps their reaction wouldn't have been as severe if you didn't openly antagonise people who don't share your views on him. As soon as you raised your hackles there was very little chance of them ever being receptive.

If you approach a group with a humble and open-minded attitude and are friendly and non-judgemental people will generally be civil and reasonable even if you disagree on important issues. If you approach a group with a closed mind, a superior attitude and speak to them in a condescending, sneering way there is no chance they're going to embrace you.

Even if they did start it, as in you approached them in a friendly and open manner without any negativity whatsoever and for some reason they immediately reamed you for the mere suggestion that you had a different interpretation of the Wogglebug, you don't have to respond to negativity with insults and it certainly wasn't the whole fandom who did so. You're tarring everyone with the same brush, just as you do with Christians and people here on Kiwi.

You're going to accuse me of assuming things again, but based on the interactions I have seen between you and other people - Oz people, religious people - in screencaps and your own posts it seems like you have a very hard time being civil when you disagree with people unless you have a pre-established positive relationship with them. Honestly, you come across a lot like Wogglebug does in the Oz books you dislike; like you believe you're infinitely more intelligent than the people around you, somewhat arrogant and grandiose.

I'm not saying those things are definitely true and you might actually be a lovely person IRL. I know you're dealing with mental illness and that doesn't make life any easier. I'm sure the small circle of people who you respect love you and see good things from you that you don't really show people you disagree with online. You made Wogglebug different. You made him grow and learn and become humble and a good friend. You can learn a lot from your own work. It's obviously inside you if you wrote it. I'm sure Voiceguy wouldn't defend you if there weren't something about you worth that effort.

I just think your franchise would go so much further with some humility and willingness to embrace people who disagree with you who are still interested in your work. You've shown glimpses of being gracious on the few occasions that you've accepted advice from people here and thanked them.
I get that nothing any of us can say, no matter how much sense it would make for you financially, will ever move you to reach out to Oz fans. However, you also said you would never sell your DVDs to any of us, even though so many of us are invested in your franchise and genuinely interested to see how your movie turns out. If you want to be a film maker and author you can't dictate your audience or who enjoys your work. How ridiculous would it be if Suzanne Collins had let them make The Hunger Games but said 'I won't let anyone see the movie who thinks I ripped off Battle Royale or likes Battle Royale better'? Can you see from another person's perspective how ridiculous that is?

You have a lot of hang ups about certain groups of people you need to let go of if you want to succeed. It's one thing to privately dislike a group of people, but you wear your distaste on your sleeve and that's a huge red flag to people. If you can't let go of that need to control who purchases your media, then this might not be the best path for you because it's going to hurt you financially and make you stressed and unhappy.

THIS...

 

[WogglebugLover]

I really don't think you should be insulted regarding this statement. There are many talented artists and CGI animators out there who could really bring your ideas to life. Many of these artists are amateurs (like art students) who could use your project to help them improve their craft and possibly give it that "polish" that it needs. I know you've paid a pretty penny for what you've already done, but it's just a thought. Walt Disney had Ub Iwerks be the official artist and animator for his beloved Mickey Mouse and you see the success he had. Walt had a vision and direction for his character, but he wasn't at that point where he could get that perfection that was the hallmark for his work. He had to go outside to seek artists and animators who wanted that chance.

I have a perfect right to be insulted by this statement for your information. First of all is because I really did pay a fortune to have the program I use and the sheer amount of content added to it, and none of it is refundable. And so if I was to not put it all to the best of use for my visions of making my movies, which was why I invested in that fortune to begin with, I will have invested in that fortune for no purpose. Furthermore, it was mainly because I was still purchasing so much content for my movies this year and last that I am still in debt of my picture book artist and overdo. And until I can straighten out my situations with him somehow I am obliged to use still captures from my movie program as images for the picture books pages in place of the illustrations as it is the best I can do until then. And I certainly can't have a hired animator work with an image of the Wogglebug based on his design until I've paid him off. And (how many times do I have to say it?) I cannot afford to pay for an animator as I'm paying two illustrators and a voice actor during next year and for more years to come.

@Bugaboo I realize you don't understand I am not actually working in the exact same kind of computer animation that the teams at Pixar use. I use a program that has tools in it that are capable of being used by one animator. I don't work at a studio, though I wish I did. And if you are really at all doubtful I can do 1 or 4 movies all by myself with this program then I have the perfect right to persist in at least proving you wrong in that regard. And I would seriously prefer to not even hire an animator who uses the same program I do. I wouldn't mind learning from them, but I just feel I need to take charge of my own visions in the beginning. And for all I know I wouldn't be able to find or afford one that can do the animation any better than I can.

What I would prefer to do is go ahead with what I want to do with my visions with the program and tools that are available to me at least in the beginning, and then (in whatever way it comes about) hire an animator I either select or who makes me an offer to redo the animation in the movie(s) I've made and released to DVD after I've achieved at least a small to medium fan base with it. After all, although Walt Disney did give Mickey Mouse over to Ub Iwerks and it was the right move, he did nonetheless do the first original design of the character and set the stage for it even if it evolved over the decades. That is what I'd rather do also.

I thought I made it clear from before. These movies are just a starting point, just as they should be meant to be. I know the Wogglebug and my visions for him deserve bigger things but I feel it's wise to start small but in the best ways for me before then no matter how long it may take to go higher. I need to just convey my visions as I have them in the first steps and go from there before anyone "improves" on them.

@WWWWolf I'm sure I've answered this query more than once before. I know the Wogglebug isn't the only character in or outside the public domain who may be in need of some of the things I'm doing for him. It's just that I CHOSE him and feel it was the right decision, and he came first besides.

If you need anymore proof I can make my visions happen I'll upload and show clips of my work-in-progress of my first movie as they are filmed and get your feedback from them and see what I can do that would make them better. For the record, I spent at least 24 hours or more on just the first 25 seconds of the film alone already.

 

[Rin]

I have a perfect right to be insulted by this statement for your information. First of all is because I really did pay a fortune to have the program I use and the sheer amount of content added to it, and none of it is refundable. And so if I was to not put it all to the best of use for my visions of making my movies, which was why I invested in that fortune to begin with, I will have invested in that fortune for no purpose. Furthermore, it was mainly because I was still purchasing so much content for my movies this year and last that I am still in debt of my picture book artist and overdo. And until I can straighten out my situations with him somehow I am obliged to use still captures from my movie program as images for the picture books pages in place of the illustrations as it is the best I can do until then. And I certainly can't have a hired animator work with an image of the Wogglebug based on his design until I've paid him off. And (how many times do I have to say it?) I cannot afford to pay for an animator as I'm paying two illustrators and a voice actor during next year and for more years to come.

This is what is known as the sunk cost fallacy. It's the same reason that people keep gambling even after they've lost a great deal of money, because they feel that if they stop, they will have given up on the money they already lost, but if they keep going there's a chance at a payout. In the end, they usually end up losing a great deal of money and never winning it back.

It would be in your best interest to just halt your progress and focus on writing books that don't require illustrations, instead of sinking more time and money into a program that you are not terribly competent with. It will take years and years for you to completely create even a semi-decent looking movie if you are working alone, just because of the amount of details for a single person to do. Finishing a novel would be much simpler, and you could even sell it as an e-book or something for a fairly low price.

 

[WogglebugLover]

This is what is known as the sunk cost fallacy. It's the same reason that people keep gambling even after they've lost a great deal of money, because they feel that if they stop, they will have given up on the money they already lost, but if they keep going there's a chance at a payout. In the end, they usually end up losing a great deal of money and never winning it back.

It would be in your best interest to just halt your progress and focus on writing books that don't require illustrations, instead of sinking more time and money into a program that you are not terribly competent with. It will take years and years for you to completely create even a semi-decent looking movie if you are working alone, just because of the amount of details for a single person to do. Finishing a novel would be much simpler, and you could even sell it as an e-book or something for a fairly low price.

I don't care if this sounds like the same thing you've heard me tell you over and over again. But I am not giving up on what I am doing any time soon. Truthfully, the only books I am actually doing that don't require illustrations are my movie novelizations and that is only because they go with the images of the movie. If I am going to release the book as a low priced e-book (which I will) I must also release the movie as an Amazon Instant Video at least. I don't mind if not everyone likes the type of animation I work with.