Tim Pool - 'journalist' who claims to be a sensible centrist & sucks Sargon of Akkad's wiener; Afraid of the Milkshake ANTIFAs

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Don't Tread on Me said:
5:50 - "But come on, let's talk about politics here. There are tons of people out there who like things I think are stupid. I'm not a fan of Yu-Gi-Oh! Tons of people who like playing with Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. I got no beef with Yu-Gi-Oh! players!"

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In Timmy's mind he's a real man who plays Magic the Gathering
 
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Don't Tread on Me said:
5:50 - "But come on, let's talk about politics here. There are tons of people out there who like things I think are stupid. I'm not a fan of Yu-Gi-Oh! Tons of people who like playing with Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. I got no beef with Yu-Gi-Oh! players!"
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I was a rather competitive Magic player back in the day and a lot of people who played Magic had this view, and I never understood it. I personally never really like the Yu-Gi-Oh! rule set so I didn't play it, but I like listening to the history of it as it has a just as much as Magic at this point and has its own take on resource systems and the like. Tim's view on this is rather juvenile.

Claptrap Alex said:
Yu-Gi-Oh now huh? what next? Pogs?
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Joke's on you, they already did a Pogs bit on Cast Castle.
 
Don't Tread on Me said:
No shit? What set did you play in? The only time I ever participated seriously in MTG was during Llorwyn and Shadowmoor.
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The ones I was most active in was Ravnica - Timespiral and into Llorwyn - Alara, from which I remember the Dragonstorm build using Spinerock and then running the RW Ajani deck. I didn't play a ton after that as I hated the Jund - Mythic Bant era and came back when Innistrad and Modern Masters were new as I remember going to the MM GT in Vegas the first time they did it.

Never really had any amazing finishes, just some day 2's at GTs and the like, though I knew a bunch of the magic pros at the time. Mostly I just liked playing control decks so even in sealed and draft I'd force them pretty hard and just do pretty well with some UB pile and then get crushed whenever I'd try aggro.
 
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6MillionCoofs said:
Yugioh does require reading and understanding greater than what Tim has shown on his shows so his dislike for it is understandable.
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Nah, Yugioh players don't want to read Konami's three paragraphs of text squished into one.

They actually learn card effects by live and learn through realising why they're losing or their effects don't work.
 
CisnaHet Scumale said:
Nah, Yugioh players don't want to read Konami's three paragraphs of text squished into one.
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As I said, way too complicated for Tim.
CisnaHet Scumale said:
They actually learn card effects by live and learn through realising why they're losing or their effects don't work.
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No they don’t. They never learn.

I’m still amazed that the main game is so archaic and unable to just write a lot of the newer rules to be standard because of the older cards they had to make a seperate child focused version of the game.
 
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Don't Tread on Me said:
"But come on, let's talk about politics here. There are tons of people out there who like things I think are stupid. I'm not a fan of Yu-Gi-Oh! Tons of people who like playing with Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. I got no beef with Yu-Gi-Oh! players!"
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Meanwhile on A&N, I just read an article about a person stabbing someone to death over fighting someone over Yu-Gi-Oh! cards.
 
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CisnaHet Scumale said:
Nah, Yugioh players don't want to read Konami's three paragraphs of text squished into one.

They actually learn card effects by live and learn through realising why they're losing or their effects don't work.
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Yu-Gi-Oh! is very amusing and one of my friends gets frustrated every time he reads the card text. He asks "why do they use all these words to be so specific?" and I have to explain for the sixth time that it is a Japanese card game translated to English, that we do not have text-based shortening alphabet like kanji in English, and that if we were French or Arabic and playing MTG we would probably have the same issues with MTG cards.
 
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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Well, that's the general problem with Yu-gi-Oh; all sorts of cards are banned because of how unbalanced those cards are.
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Konami should of made a plan on how not to make cards that either to op or just outright broken. I don’t see people losing their shit over axis and allies.
 
Josterman said:
Konami should of made a plan on how not to make cards that either to op or just outright broken. I don’t see people losing their shit over axis and allies.
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Well, the game was originally in a manga, so the goal of the game was to be as dramatic as possible. This drama was typically built around playing cards that can change the tide of a game. Konami tried to fix it with new rules like Tribute Summons (watch early episodes. Characters are summoning 6-8 star cards easily) and banning cards in tournament play like Pot of Greed, but those were patchwork ideas. Since the shows are commercials for the card game, all kinds of OP cards with increasingly baroque rules are still produced. Combined with player ingenuity and it's impossible to figure out how to properly balance the game while retaining the essence of the game itself.
 
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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Well, the game was originally in a manga, so the goal of the game was to be as dramatic as possible. This drama was typically built around playing cards that can change the tide of a game. Konami tried to fix it with new rules like Tribute Summons (watch early episodes. Characters are summoning 6-8 star cards easily) and banning cards in tournament play like Pot of Greed, but those were patchwork ideas. Since the shows are commercials for the card game, all kinds of OP cards with increasingly baroque rules are still produced. Combined with player ingenuity and it's impossible to figure out how to properly balance the game while retaining the essence of the game itself.
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that makes more sense
 
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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Well, that's the general problem with Yu-gi-Oh; all sorts of cards are banned because of how unbalanced those cards are.
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That's the case in all games. The issue with designing games with any level of high complexity and lots of options is that the power level will vary drastically and will not always be intuitive. I'd forgive Yu-Gi-Oh for this far more than Magic, because Yu-Gi-Oh from my understanding only has an eternal format where all cards through history are legal outside of the banned/limited list while Magic has seen a lot of bans in the Standard format recently which should be the easiest to balance, they also had to change mechanics from how they are printed on cards because they screwed up so much.

Though really the reason you will always have a banned list, even in digital games, is because not only is it hard to test the power level of cards fully in house, but power level scales massively depending on what other cards are printed. Something like Pot of Greed or Ancestral Recall isn't really that broken when the overall power level of the game is low and you can't effectively use all of the cards drawn due to resource limitations. They're insanely broken when there are enough cards with low resource costs and cards that generate resources exist.

One of the best examples of critical mass are cards like Bazaar of Baghdad, which is just a land that draws 2 and forces you to discard 3. It was pretty bad when printed, then over time it gained some tools like Goblin Welder and World Gorger Dragon which let you combo out and that was too good for some formats, but it was still reasonably fine enough and fringe in formats with a very high power level. Then Dredge as a mechanic came out and other cards were printed that enabled it, and Bazaar became such a powerful card that you could mulligan down to 1 card in that deck and if it was Bazaar you still had a really good chance of winning with that 1 card against your opponent's 7.

Lion's Eye Diamond had the same issue, it was the worst Black Lotus, where it made 3 mana and you discard your hand but then the Ravnica tutor gave it combo potential as it wanted your hand empty and Dredge once again when it was strong enough could just use the hand discard and cards like Faithless Looting which played from your graveyard to go off.
 
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Retink said:
That's the case in all games. The issue with designing games with any level of high complexity and lots of options is that the power level will vary drastically and will not always be intuitive. I'd forgive Yu-Gi-Oh for this far more than Magic, because Yu-Gi-Oh from my understanding only has an eternal format where all cards through history are legal outside of the banned/limited list while Magic has seen a lot of bans in the Standard format recently which should be the easiest to balance, they also had to change mechanics from how they are printed on cards because they screwed up so much.

Though really the reason you will always have a banned list, even in digital games, is because not only is it hard to test the power level of cards fully in house, but power level scales massively depending on what other cards are printed. Something like Pot of Greed or Ancestral Recall isn't really that broken when the overall power level of the game is low and you can't effectively use all of the cards drawn due to resource limitations. They're insanely broken when there are enough cards with low resource costs and cards that generate resources exist.

One of the best examples of critical mass are cards like Bazaar of Baghdad, which is just a land that draws 2 and forces you to discard 3. It was pretty bad when printed, then over time it gained some tools like Goblin Welder and World Gorger Dragon which let you combo out and that was too good for some formats, but it was still reasonably fine enough and fringe in formats with a very high power level. Then Dredge as a mechanic came out and other cards were printed that enabled it, and Bazaar became such a powerful card that you could mulligan down to 1 card in that deck and if it was Bazaar you still had a really good chance of winning with that 1 card against your opponent's 7.

Lion's Eye Diamond had the same issue, it was the worst Black Lotus, where it made 3 mana and you discard your hand but then the Ravnica tutor gave it combo potential as it wanted your hand empty and Dredge once again when it was strong enough could just use the hand discard and cards like Faithless Looting which played from your graveyard to go off.
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How about Raigeki? What does it do? Destroys all of the opponent's monsters. How much does it cost? Just the card itself. Sure, there's technically a counter to it called Raigeki Break, but before it existed, it could just do what it said. Blue Eyes White Dragon ain't shit to Black Hole or Raigeki. Seems like Yugi should have built a deck around these cards instead of drawing Exodia pieces.
 
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