Home Buying / Housing Market Griefing Thread - You're going to rent until you die.

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

It used to scale, but recently I've been seeing more mortgage companies that won't accept scaling the way they used to.
E.g. One person I spoke with had a lender state that they had a limit on how low they'd allow the mortgage payments to be, regardless of how much money you had. When they asked about why, the lender just said "If you have that money, just pay the mortgage faster."

That's fine, just write "principle balance" on the memo of every check.

 

[Never Scored]

Land is power. A family without land is a family of serfs. They live at the whim of those who own the means of their survival. I bought an acre of land with a three bedroom in the middle of fucking nowhere for a reason.

Yeah, there is no internet here and I have to phone post all the time. But I own the dirt, and I own the well. My descendents will own both too. That will put them light years ahead of the nightmare that is fast coming for the slaves in the city.

I did the same thing when I was younger, bought a half acre of land nearly two hours from where I live with cash and parked a trailer on it. I recently bought the half acre next to it too. I do have a house on a half acre just outside a small city now, but if anything happens, the economy goes totally tits up and I can't pay the mortgage and I lose it, I always have my little spot in the middle of nowhere. I think it's the best security you can possibly buy.

 

[Cybertonia]

Mortgage rates are now over 5%, highest since 2006

One of pimco's dudes is calling the top. Says that buying a house right now will only net you a 2% return. Now, pimco dudes are pretty nutty (Bill Gross is pretty much a lolcow who's stupidly rich) but they do really know how to read the tea leaves on the bond trade

tl;dr don't fucking buy right now unless you wanna get your shit pushed in

https://archive.ph/FkEmh

 

[TheRedChair]

I did the same thing when I was younger, bought a half acre of land nearly two hours from where I live with cash and parked a trailer on it. I recently bought the half acre next to it too. I do have a house on a half acre just outside a small city now, but if anything happens, the economy goes totally tits up and I can't pay the mortgage and I lose it, I always have my little spot in the middle of nowhere. I think it's the best security you can possibly buy.

For you prepper minded people thinking that I need MOAR LAND... Let me give you some advice that comes from a planning board in a town before it modernized. We are talking before 1940 and definitely before 1946 on one of the pieces of property in a region that I have.

The minimum plot of land needed which included a 6 to 800sft home is 50' x 100'. However the norm of that time was 50' x 150'. A well managed 100 foot square plot of land will take care of all of your basic needs. You people have to understand that even back then when they had no refrigeration and sometimes no utilities, they knew how to "field the land".

That is why Bungalow houses were on the average of around 800sqf. on a large lot. you needed that size of lot for crops with the technology that they had at the time. With the tech now you can safely double your crop output.

Now if you already got the bare minimum then everything else is better for you.

As I like to tell people "Information is a form of power. Use it well and it will make you money".

It did for me.


NOTE: As a fact High Density Housing Causes Slums in ghetto proportions It happened in the 60's During the Johnson's Administration. It is happening in every major city now.

High Density Housing causes Crime. That is also a fact as well.

Location Location Location, is mostly true however you have to look at several different talking points.

You don't want your home next to a Business, store, apartment, school, or even in these days, city parks. 50+ years city parks were a desirable thing. Now because of times we live in it is infested with crime and drugs.

 

[Salade Nicoise]

Multigenerational households should make a comeback.

Undoubtedly the biggest truth in this thread. My partner and I are already having this discussion in the context of my ageing parents (his are in another state). One of the biggest influencing factors in this is something a lot of folks overlook: child care.

Costs in our city are currently sitting at $120/day. Aside from us being lucky enough to both love our jobs, there's no way we could afford one of us (likely me, Mommy) to stay home full time. Then we'd be renting forever. So if we try and juggle childcare costs AND mortgage costs on a shitty 2 bed apartment... nah that ain't it for me.

My folks own their lovely suburban home outright (bought in the 90s for a song, its appraisal now is insane). We've had the privilege of being able to go back there when we need it, and always planned to do so when saving/renovating. But now with the discussion of babies in the mix, finding a space for all of us for the future has become the number one priority. We're even researching architects that specialise in the design of multigenerational homes that allow everyone their own 'space.' And look, if Grandma and Grandpa can help offset some (certainly not all, just some) of the childcare costs... that's just icing on the cake.

I have zero embarrassment about this. Some friends are like 'wait you wanna live with your parents again?' Hell yeah I do. It's such a WASPY knee jerk reaction that. The Latinos/Asians/hundreds of other cultures absolutely have it right. Here's the feelsfag bit: we're a family that not just loves each other... we fucking like each other. Which is a total blessing, I get it.

I mean my brother and his wife are now asking to be brought into this mix! I don't know if that's a reality yet but imagine... 4 adults earning pretty decent wages. 2 seniors sitting on a few $mil of property equity. Our kids living next door to their cousins. My folks living out their golden years surrounded by their people, not in some sterile apartment/retirement home.

Sounds pretty fucking idyllic to me.

 

[Never Scored]

Sounds pretty fucking idyllic to me.

I agree, this is why I joined a polycule. Now if only we were employed.

 

[Netizennameless]

Undoubtedly the biggest truth in this thread. My partner and I are already having this discussion in the context of my ageing parents (his are in another state). One of the biggest influencing factors in this is something a lot of folks overlook: child care.

Costs in our city are currently sitting at $120/day. Aside from us being lucky enough to both love our jobs, there's no way we could afford one of us (likely me, Mommy) to stay home full time. Then we'd be renting forever. So if we try and juggle childcare costs AND mortgage costs on a shitty 2 bed apartment... nah that ain't it for me.

My folks own their lovely suburban home outright (bought in the 90s for a song, its appraisal now is insane). We've had the privilege of being able to go back there when we need it, and always planned to do so when saving/renovating. But now with the discussion of babies in the mix, finding a space for all of us for the future has become the number one priority. We're even researching architects that specialise in the design of multigenerational homes that allow everyone their own 'space.' And look, if Grandma and Grandpa can help offset some (certainly not all, just some) of the childcare costs... that's just icing on the cake.

I have zero embarrassment about this. Some friends are like 'wait you wanna live with your parents again?' Hell yeah I do. It's such a WASPY knee jerk reaction that. The Latinos/Asians/hundreds of other cultures absolutely have it right. Here's the feelsfag bit: we're a family that not just loves each other... we fucking like each other. Which is a total blessing, I get it.

I mean my brother and his wife are now asking to be brought into this mix! I don't know if that's a reality yet but imagine... 4 adults earning pretty decent wages. 2 seniors sitting on a few $mil of property equity. Our kids living next door to their cousins. My folks living out their golden years surrounded by their people, not in some sterile apartment/retirement home.

Sounds pretty fucking idyllic to me.

This is the American Dream.

On that same note, marriage is a huge indicator of future success for the reason you mentioned. 2 rents become 1, and eventually become 1 mortgage. Same with a lot of other expenses like utilities. That allows for saving, which is the key to security.

 

[Uncle June]

This is the American Dream.

On that same note, marriage is a huge indicator of future success for the reason you mentioned. 2 rents become 1, and eventually become 1 mortgage. Same with a lot of other expenses like utilities. That allows for saving, which is the key to security.

True, but if you're single you can easily rent a room for at least half your mortgage, and there is a large demand for rooms for rent in virtually every market. I'm a bit older but never married and have rented rooms in every house I've owned with large success.

Only issue of course is having a potential case where your roomie is a piece of shit, but it's a lot easier to monitor them when they live with you. And you obviously need a legally binding contract in place.

 

[Never Scored]

True, but if you're single you can easily rent a room for at least half your mortgage, and there is a large demand for rooms for rent in virtually every market. I'm a bit older but never married and have rented rooms in every house I've owned with large success.

Only issue of course is having a potential case where your roomie is a piece of shit, but it's a lot easier to monitor them when they live with you. And you obviously need a legally binding contract in place.

A lot of elderly people around here do the same thing to get around the whole fixed income thing.

 

[Law]

On that same note, marriage is a huge indicator of future success

This is why divorce is hilarious.

 

[Netizennameless]

This is why divorce is hilarious.

I am once divorced, once remarried. There was more than a decade in between them. Partner selection is critical, and honestly I've come to understand diplomatic marriages.

Marrying for love is fun and all, but if that's all there is, it won't hold up in the end. Thankfully I was able to manage both. The power of marriage is two people working in concert, optimizing resources to grow their shared empire, and doing that fundamentally requires trust and honest communication.

 

[Netizennameless]

True, but if you're single you can easily rent a room for at least half your mortgage, and there is a large demand for rooms for rent in virtually every market. I'm a bit older but never married and have rented rooms in every house I've owned with large success.

I subscribed to this mentality for a long time, but i have since changed my mind. If you'll indulge me a little math:

From age 25-30, for the sake of ease i paid an average of $800 per month on rent. Some years were less, some more, but that's the rough 5 year average. In those 5 years, i spent about $48,000 on rent.

In a lot of places, that is 25-50% of a 30 year mortgage.

Only issue of course is having a potential case where your roomie is a piece of shit, but it's a lot easier to monitor them when they live with you. And you obviously need a legally binding contract in place.

Having roommates is a serious problem for meaningful dating. Nobody likes doing the walk of shame on a regular basis.

I will say, it is the best way to try to save when you're young (18-29 or so). But rent is inherently unstable over the long term. A mortgage is not.

 

[american_amadan]

I have zero embarrassment about this. Some friends are like 'wait you wanna live with your parents again?' Hell yeah I do. It's such a WASPY knee jerk reaction that. The Latinos/Asians/hundreds of other cultures absolutely have it right. Here's the feelsfag bit: we're a family that not just loves each other... we fucking like each other. Which is a total blessing, I get it.

Yep, my parents are Irish-born, and moved up quickly when they came to the US. We live in an urban area so it's complicated to sustain multigenerational households, but my parents bought multiple homes on the same street we live on during the recession. I don't know if it was ignorance or luck or wisdom, but it worked. The houses they bought are worth triple from their buying price. It's also a very word of mouth neighborhood, homes don't make it to the market, which I hope continues.

Ethnic neighborhoods are a good thing. I face no problems going into the Lebanese neighborhood 20 blocks away, and they face none coming into the Irish neighborhood. I love them and they love me. Seeing gentrification come to the midwestern cities has upset me. It's nomadic people looking for the next best place to be. Multigenerational households solve all of it. Don't go running for the fancy apartment building because you have money now, stay where you are and play a bigger role in your community. The economic advantages are secondary to me.

It's not embarrassing. It's empowering in the way the banks don't want you to be.

 

[Law]

Yep, my parents are Irish-born, and moved up quickly when they came to the US. We live in an urban area so it's complicated to sustain multigenerational households, but my parents bought multiple homes on the same street we live on during the recession. I don't know if it was ignorance or luck or wisdom, but it worked. The houses they bought are worth triple from their buying price. It's also a very word of mouth neighborhood, homes don't make it to the market, which I hope continues.

Ethnic neighborhoods are a good thing. I face no problems going into the Lebanese neighborhood 20 blocks away, and they face none coming into the Irish neighborhood. I love them and they love me. Seeing gentrification come to the midwestern cities has upset me. It's nomadic people looking for the next best place to be. Multigenerational households solve all of it. Don't go running for the fancy apartment building because you have money now, stay where you are and play a bigger role in your community. The economic advantages are secondary to me.

It's not embarrassing. It's empowering in the way the banks don't want you to be.

What if your parents are poor though?

 

[american_amadan]

What if your parents are poor though?

I'm not from some 1%er family so please don't think that. I live in a really shitty Midwest city. The housing market going crazy was what helped us the most. I bought a home 4 years ago and the value is about 2.5x what it was before I bought it. It really was luck.

It's why I believe the conspiracies that Blackrock is buying everything to turn people into renters. The biggest thing is to hold on to the property you own, and don't sell unless it's to someone you know. They don't have a market if we don't sell to them.

 

[NoReturn]

What if your parents are poor though?

What if you have no parents? Our foster system is fucked.

 

[Law]

I'm not from some 1%er family so please don't think that.

Oh no, I don't think that. I used "poor" to mean not having enough money to buy property or get a mortgage. I know you don't need to be rich to do these things, but there's a certain amount of money you need.
Everyone I know who bought a house did it with their parents helping out with the down payment. I know it's possible to do it without the bank of mom and dad - it's just not something I've ever seen anyone I know do.

It's why I believe the conspiracies that Blackrock is buying everything to turn people into renters. The biggest thing is to hold on to the property you own, and don't sell unless it's to someone you know. They don't have a market if we don't sell to them.

That is a really interesting conspiracy. Hadn't heard of that one.

 

[NoReturn]

They don't have a market if we don't sell to them.

That is a really interesting conspiracy. Hadn't heard of that one.

Yeah, still to other Kiwis instead.

 

[malapropism]

Seems like a terrible time for top-down outdated advice about the concept of starter homes or collecting any real equity before 30, so I'm just glad for all the sage advice in this thread, whether it applies to all of us or just a few of us. Try to stay open-minded when house hunting, Those who look only at new construction might wake up a little happier seeing exposed brick or wood panels or any old styling cue than the off white walls of your local five-over-one new construction. Alcoves and weird rooms decorate themselves, so no difficult balance of live, laugh love crap everywhere or looking like /r/malelivingspace. The reverse is true, as much as I love Victorian homes - having to deal with the problems that old plumbing or heating systems can come up with can make every good day a little worse.

Multigenerational households should make a comeback.

I think the US (and Canada) is on the cusp of a real cultural shift on this topic so there are some bizarre growing pains. With the exceptions of those who grinded hard or had rich parents, most of my friends either rent or live with parents. The former's living arrangement might be enough of a financial burden that they cannot enjoy themselves on the weekend, and the later keeps it on the down low in public that they live with their parents. The end result of this, either from lack of discretionary income or shame/inconvenience is that young people just do less stuff in person, covid and increased use of communicating online didn't help, so mental health deteriorates even in the best of them. There's a lie that people can fix this by moving closer to downtown or the next big city, but if they do so don't have the cash or free time to take advantage of where they are.

This isn't a boomer hate thread, but it is a bit insane that some people are constantly just a few bad days away from being kicked out or extorted to enjoy the home they grew up in. As much as the american dream is to own your own property, home and two car garage included ; kicking children out the moment they finish high school with no support shouldn't be a bastion of conservative values.

 

[Uncle June]

I subscribed to this mentality for a long time, but i have since changed my mind. If you'll indulge me a little math:

From age 25-30, for the sake of ease i paid an average of $800 per month on rent. Some years were less, some more, but that's the rough 5 year average. In those 5 years, i spent about $48,000 on rent.

In a lot of places, that is 25-50% of a 30 year mortgage.

Having roommates is a serious problem for meaningful dating. Nobody likes doing the walk of shame on a regular basis.

I will say, it is the best way to try to save when you're young (18-29 or so). But rent is inherently unstable over the long term. A mortgage is not.

I meant to say rent out a room in your house, not renting a room yourself. Apologies, that wasn't as clear as I thought when I typed it lol.