SCOTUS to Overturn Roe V Wade according to draft opinion obtained by Politico - And here we go

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The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito circulated inside the court and obtained by POLITICO.
The draft opinion is a full-throated, unflinching repudiation of the 1973 decision which guaranteed federal constitutional protections of abortion rights and a subsequent 1992 decision – Planned Parenthood v. Casey – that largely maintained the right. “Roe was egregiously wrong from the start,” Alito writes.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.”


Deliberations on controversial cases have in the past been fluid. Justices can and sometimes do change their votes as draft opinions circulate and major decisions can be subject to multiple drafts and vote-trading, sometimes until just days before a decision is unveiled. The court’s holding will not be final until it is published, likely in the next two months.
The immediate impact of the ruling as drafted in February would be to end a half-century guarantee of federal constitutional protection of abortion rights and allow each state to decide whether to restrict or ban abortion. It’s unclear if there have been subsequent changes to the draft.
No draft decision in the modern history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was still pending. The unprecedented revelation is bound to intensify the debate over what was already the most controversial case on the docket this term.
The draft opinion offers an extraordinary window into the justices’ deliberations in one of the most consequential cases before the court in the last five decades. Some court-watchers predicted that the conservative majority would slice away at abortion rights without flatly overturning a 49-year-old precedent. The draft shows that the court is looking to reject Roe’s logic and legal protections.
Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division.”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
A person familiar with the court’s deliberations said that four of the other Republican-appointed justices – Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett – had voted with Alito in the conference held among the justices after hearing oral arguments in December, and that line-up remains unchanged as of this week.


The three Democratic-appointed justices – Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan – are working on one or more dissents, according to the person. How Chief Justice John Roberts will ultimately vote, and whether he will join an already written opinion or draft his own, is unclear.
The document, labeled as a first draft of the majority opinion, includes a notation that it was circulated among the justices on Feb. 10. If the Alito draft is adopted, it would rule in favor of Mississippi in the closely watched case over that state’s attempt to ban most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy.
A Supreme Court spokesperson declined to comment or make another representative of the court available to answer questions about the draft document.
POLITICO received a copy of the draft opinion from a person familiar with the court’s proceedings in the Mississippi case along with other details supporting the authenticity of the document. The draft opinion runs 98 pages, including a 31-page appendix of historical state abortion laws. The document is replete with citations to previous court decisions, books and other authorities, and includes 118 footnotes. The appearances and timing of this draft are consistent with court practice.
The disclosure of Alito’s draft majority opinion – a rare breach of Supreme Court secrecy and tradition around its deliberations – comes as all sides in the abortion debate are girding for the ruling. Speculation about the looming decision has been intense since the December oral arguments indicated a majority was inclined to support the Mississippi law.
Under longstanding court procedures, justices hold preliminary votes on cases shortly after argument and assign a member of the majority to write a draft of the court’s opinion. The draft is often amended in consultation with other justices, and in some cases the justices change their votes altogether, creating the possibility that the current alignment on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization could change.
The chief justice typically assigns majority opinions when he is in the majority. When he is not, that decision is typically made by the most senior justice in the majority.

‘Exceptionally weak’​

A George W. Bush appointee who joined the court in 2006, Alito argues that the 1973 abortion rights ruling was an ill-conceived and deeply flawed decision that invented a right mentioned nowhere in the Constitution and unwisely sought to wrench the contentious issue away from the political branches of government.
Alito’s draft ruling would overturn a decision by the New Orleans-based 5th Circuit Court of Appeals that found the Mississippi law ran afoul of Supreme Court precedent by seeking to effectively ban abortions before viability.

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Roe’s “survey of history ranged from the constitutionally irrelevant to the plainly incorrect,” Alito continues, adding that its reasoning was “exceptionally weak,” and that the original decision has had “damaging consequences.”
“The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions,” Alito writes.
Alito approvingly quotes a broad range of critics of the Roe decision. He also points to liberal icons such as the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe, who at certain points in their careers took issue with the reasoning in Roe or its impact on the political process.
Alito’s skewering of Roe and the endorsement of at least four other justices for that unsparing critique is also a measure of the court’s rightward turn in recent decades. Roe was decided 7-2 in 1973, with five Republican appointees joining two justices nominated by Democratic presidents.
The overturning of Roe would almost immediately lead to stricter limits on abortion access in large swaths of the South and Midwest, with about half of the states set to immediately impose broad abortion bans. Any state could still legally allow the procedure.
“The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion,” the draft concludes. “Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives.”
The draft contains the type of caustic rhetorical flourishes Alito is known for and that has caused Roberts, his fellow Bush appointee, some discomfort in the past.
At times, Alito’s draft opinion takes an almost mocking tone as it skewers the majority opinion in Roe, written by Justice Harry Blackmun, a Richard Nixon appointee who died in 1999.
Roe expressed the ‘feel[ing]’ that the Fourteenth Amendment was the provision that did the work, but its message seemed to be that the abortion right could be found somewhere in the Constitution and that specifying its exact location was not of paramount importance,” Alito writes.
Alito declares that one of the central tenets of Roe, the “viability” distinction between fetuses not capable of living outside the womb and those which can, “makes no sense.”
In several passages, he describes doctors and nurses who terminate pregnancies as “abortionists.”
When Roberts voted with liberal jurists in 2020 to block a Louisiana law imposing heavier regulations on abortion clinics, his solo concurrence used the more neutral term “abortion providers.” In contrast, Justice Clarence Thomas used the word “abortionist” 25 times in a solo dissent in the same case.


Alito’s use of the phrase “egregiously wrong” to describe Roe echoes language Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart used in December in defending his state’s ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. The phrase was also contained in an opinion Kavanaugh wrote as part of a 2020 ruling that jury convictions in criminal cases must be unanimous.
In that opinion, Kavanaugh labeled two well-known Supreme Court decisions “egregiously wrong when decided”: the 1944 ruling upholding the detention of Japanese Americans during World War II, Korematsu v. United States, and the 1896 decision that blessed racial segregation under the rubric of “separate but equal,” Plessy v. Ferguson.
The high court has never formally overturned Korematsu, but did repudiate the decision in a 2018 ruling by Roberts that upheld then-President Donald Trump’s travel ban policy.

The legacy of Plessy v. Ferguson​

Plessy remained the law of the land for nearly six decades until the court overturned it with the Brown v. Board of Education school desegregation ruling in 1954.
Quoting Kavanaugh, Alito writes of Plessy: “It was ‘egregiously wrong,’ on the day it was decided.”
Alito’s draft opinion includes, in small type, a list of about two pages’ worth of decisions in which the justices overruled prior precedents – in many instances reaching results praised by liberals.
The implication that allowing states to outlaw abortion is on par with ending legal racial segregation has been hotly disputed. But the comparison underscores the conservative justices’ belief that Roe is so flawed that the justices should disregard their usual hesitations about overturning precedent and wholeheartedly renounce it.
Alito’s draft opinion ventures even further into this racially sensitive territory by observing in a footnote that some early proponents of abortion rights also had unsavory views in favor of eugenics.
“Some such supporters have been motivated by a desire to suppress the size of the African American population,” Alito writes. “It is beyond dispute that Roe has had that demographic effect. A highly disproportionate percentage of aborted fetuses are black.”
Alito writes that by raising the point he isn’t casting aspersions on anyone. “For our part, we do not question the motives of either those who have supported and those who have opposed laws restricting abortion,” he writes.
Alito also addresses concern about the impact the decision could have on public discourse. “We cannot allow our decisions to be affected by any extraneous influences such as concern about the public’s reaction to our work,” Alito writes. “We do not pretend to know how our political system or society will respond to today’s decision overruling Roe and Casey. And even if we could foresee what will happen, we would have no authority to let that knowledge influence our decision.”


In the main opinion in the 1992 Casey decision, Justices Sandra Day O’Connor, Anthony Kennedy and Davis Souter warned that the court would pay a “terrible price” for overruling Roe, despite criticism of the decision from some in the public and the legal community.
“While it has engendered disapproval, it has not been unworkable,” the three justices wrote then. “An entire generation has come of age free to assume Roe‘s concept of liberty in defining the capacity of women to act in society, and to make reproductive decisions; no erosion of principle going to liberty or personal autonomy has left Roe‘s central holding a doctrinal remnant.”
When Dobbs was argued in December, Roberts seemed out of sync with the other conservative justices, as he has been in a number of cases including one challenging the Affordable Care Act.
At the argument session last fall, Roberts seemed to be searching for a way to uphold Mississippi’s 15-week ban without completely abandoning the Roe framework.
“Viability, it seems to me, doesn’t have anything to do with choice. But, if it really is an issue about choice, why is 15 weeks not enough time?” Roberts asked during the arguments. “The thing that is at issue before us today is 15 weeks.”

Nods to conservative colleagues​

While Alito’s draft opinion doesn’t cater much to Roberts’ views, portions of it seem intended to address the specific interests of other justices. One passage argues that social attitudes toward out-of-wedlock pregnancies “have changed drastically” since the 1970s and that increased demand for adoption makes abortion less necessary.
Those points dovetail with issues that Barrett – a Trump appointee and the court’s newest member – raised at the December arguments. She suggested laws allowing people to surrender newborn babies on a no-questions-asked basis mean carrying a pregnancy to term doesn’t oblige one to engage in child rearing.
“Why don’t the safe haven laws take care of that problem?” asked Barrett, who adopted two of her seven children.
Much of Alito’s draft is devoted to arguing that widespread criminalization of abortion during the 19th and early 20th century belies the notion that a right to abortion is implied in the Constitution.
The conservative justice attached to his draft a 31-page appendix listing laws passed to criminalize abortion during that period. Alito claims “an unbroken tradition of prohibiting abortion on pain of criminal punishment…from the earliest days of the common law until 1973.”


“Until the latter part of the 20th century, there was no support in American law for a constitutional right to obtain an abortion. Zero. None. No state constitutional provision had recognized such a right,” Alito adds.
Alito’s draft argues that rights protected by the Constitution but not explicitly mentioned in it – so-called unenumerated rights – must be strongly rooted in U.S. history and tradition. That form of analysis seems at odds with several of the court’s recent decisions, including many of its rulings backing gay rights.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision....”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
Liberal justices seem likely to take issue with Alito’s assertion in the draft opinion that overturning Roe would not jeopardize other rights the courts have grounded in privacy, such as the right to contraception, to engage in private consensual sexual activity and to marry someone of the same sex.
“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito writes. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”
Alito’s draft opinion rejects the idea that abortion bans reflect the subjugation of women in American society. “Women are not without electoral or political power,” he writes. “The percentage of women who register to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so.”
The Supreme Court remains one of Washington’s most secretive institutions, priding itself on protecting the confidentiality of its internal deliberations.
“At the Supreme Court, those who know don’t talk, and those who talk don’t know,” Ginsburg was fond of saying.
That tight-lipped reputation has eroded somewhat in recent decades due to a series of books by law clerks, law professors and investigative journalists. Some of these authors clearly had access to draft opinions such as the one obtained by POLITICO, but their books emerged well after the cases in question were resolved.
The justices held their final arguments of the current term on Wednesday. The court has set a series of sessions over the next two months to release rulings in its still-unresolved cases, including the Mississippi abortion case.
 
No, I wouldn't want to keep my rapist's child to term. Jesus Christ, just shut the fuck up already. I mean this isn't a mainstream Republican talking point anywhere that raped women should be forced to have their rapist's children. But this is the internet where everyone is an edgy extremist contrarian asshole, so I guess we have to litigate things that all sane people agree on, because the world has to be black and white completely.

Also a lot of these cases will be underaged children, some raped by by blood relatives, so yeah it's even more fucked up we have to go there, and you have to tell us why literal kids have to have their lives ruined over being abused because some dudes on the intenret who will never experience either sexual assault or pregnancy can't conceptualize what that would be like.
Other guy just demonstrated that this isn't really a live issue, due to anyone presenting for medical care after a rape being given emergency contraceptives.

The "force" was already carried out by the rapist. Killing a child doesn't undo that force. Now, if you have evidence- not feminist emotional blackmail and shrieking but properly conducted research- that suggests that there is more psychological damage done in carrying to term versus aborting, go ahead and present that. At the moment it seems to me no such evidence exists because again, killing an innocent does nothing to un-rape the victim. It does nothing to heal her psychologically. It may even make her feel worse. If you have evidence, bring it. Otherwise if I wanted to be screeched at by a bpd irrational feminist, there are plenty of places I could go to get that done much better than what you're providing here.
 
It doesn't give precedent besides the fact that deep down they know that the gay marriage ruling was judicial activism and there was no violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.
It actually does give precedent because you could argue that both Roe and the gay marriage decision of 2015 were violations of the 10th amendment. Gay marriage and abortion were state decisions before going to the Supreme Court. Both, in my opinion, should have remained state decisions because it makes it more solidified by law rather than a ruling, which can be undone based on what new judges would get appointed.
 
It doesn't give precedent besides the fact that deep down they know that the gay marriage ruling was judicial activism and there was no violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. The passage from Alito's opinion that they are sharing is listing court cases that pro-abortion people have cited to defend their position; he's not listing cases that he thinks should be overturned. Neil Gorsuch believes that the Civil Rights Act's authors were trying to protect trans and gay rights when they banned discrimination on the basis of sex and John Roberts would never vote for anything that might result in him being uninvited from the next DC cocktail party. As long as those two remain on the court, there is a near zero chance that gay marriage is returned to the states.
Fully agree that this sets no precedent regarding gay marriage that doesn't already exist, which is basically "yes we can overturn our decisions".

I don't particularly like gay marriage, I think by giving it to them they got a dub too soon and their war engines just continued into oblivion with nothing left to fight for that wouldn't cause the downfall of society, and now they are used for promoting grooming children, buuuuuuut I can't find a way around banning gay marriage being an equal protection issue.

I can find a way that abortion is a huge equal protection issue, the scope of the supposed right is so narrow that it may as well apply to only albinos or something similarly retarded and discriminatory...but assuming the state advantages the recipients of their marriage loicenses, and the state treats its subjects equally, it follows in my view that as counter productive as it is, the language doesn't preclude marriage from falling under equal protection.

Perhaps I'm missing something?
 
Fully agree that this sets no precedent regarding gay marriage that doesn't already exist, which is basically "yes we can overturn our decisions".

I don't particularly like gay marriage, I think by giving it to them they got a dub too soon and their war engines just continued into oblivion with nothing left to fight for that wouldn't cause the downfall of society, and now they are used for promoting grooming children, buuuuuuut I can't find a way around banning gay marriage being an equal protection issue.

I can find a way that abortion is a huge equal protection issue, the scope of the supposed right is so narrow that it may as well apply to only albinos or something similarly retarded and discriminatory...but assuming the state advantages the recipients of their marriage loicenses, and the state treats its subjects equally, it follows in my view that as counter productive as it is, the language doesn't preclude marriage from falling under equal protection.

Perhaps I'm missing something?
Gay men are equally welcome to marry the woman of their choice as straight men. There's no equal protection issue. Preferring buttsex over normal sex has never been demonstrated to be an unchanging personal trait like skin color- all attempts to do so keep failing wildly. That's why their activism got stuck for years and they needed activist judges to yank them out of the mud.
 
The most incredible part is they have to invent that ridiculous strawman in order to claim conservatives have radical, unpopular ideas on abortion while at the same time, major media companies are creating and promoting shit like this.


There is no upper bound to the absurdity of clown world, guys.
Why do they let people with voices like these on TV?
 
Gay men are equally welcome to marry the woman of their choice as straight men. There's no equal protection issue. Preferring buttsex over normal sex has never been demonstrated to be an unchanging personal trait like skin color- all attempts to do so keep failing wildly. That's why their activism got stuck for years and they needed activist judges to yank them out of the mud.
I guess we'll agree to disagree then, I disagree in the sense that given the current legislative mess I'm not sure this distinction matters in a way that will see gay marriage overturned, but that does answer where I was missing something quite succinctly, so thank you.
 
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Gay men are equally welcome to marry the woman of their choice as straight men. There's no equal protection issue. Preferring buttsex over normal sex has never been demonstrated to be an unchanging personal trait like skin color- all attempts to do so keep failing wildly. That's why their activism got stuck for years and they needed activist judges to yank them out of the mud.
while I agree with your textual interpretation, we should consider the benefits of married life. taxes, inheritance, life insurance.
it would be cool if someone created a "Union" with most of the marriage benefits.
 
Other guy just demonstrated that this isn't really a live issue, due to anyone presenting for medical care after a rape being given emergency contraceptives.

Not everyone, for varying factors, goes to the doctor immediately afterwards to report their rape/abuse. How can you not conceptualize this as a possibility? "Live Issue" even that list that was put up says there's some that get abortions for that reason, even if it's not a lot. If there is some, then it is an issue. I mean holy shit, I'm sure the number of people murdered isn't a big part of total deaths either, but we still have to deal with it as a society.

The "force" was already carried out by the rapist. Killing a child doesn't undo that force. Now, if you have evidence- not feminist emotional blackmail and shrieking but properly conducted research- that suggests that there is more psychological damage done in carrying to term versus aborting, go ahead and present that. At the moment it seems to me no such evidence exists because again, killing an innocent does nothing to un-rape the victim. It does nothing to heal her psychologically. It may even make her feel worse. If you have evidence, bring it. Otherwise if I wanted to be screeched at by a bpd irrational feminist, there are plenty of places I could go to get that done much better than what you're providing here.

I honestly shouldn't be responding to this horrible autistic rambling that includes Star Wars terminology unironically, but my source is myself. I was abused, but didn't get pregnant, and if I had and had to do what you wanted me to do, I'd be dead because I would have offed myself in that nightmare scenario.

No I don't have any "properly conducted research," but you know what you talk about women like zoo animals you have to read a book about to understand. That alone is so incredibly pathetic that I'm getting second hand embarrassment for you. Meet some women in real life please.
 
the federal government has to take a stand on gay marriage
Like Roe, they could have done so by legislating it through Congress. The downside with using rulings to create laws is that they are easily undone if new judges get appointed. Judges are obviously important, but they are the ones interpreting laws, not creating them like the legislative branch does.
 
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Fully agree that this sets no precedent regarding gay marriage that doesn't already exist, which is basically "yes we can overturn our decisions".

I don't particularly like gay marriage, I think by giving it to them they got a dub too soon and their war engines just continued into oblivion with nothing left to fight for that wouldn't cause the downfall of society, and now they are used for promoting grooming children, buuuuuuut I can't find a way around banning gay marriage being an equal protection issue.

I can find a way that abortion is a huge equal protection issue, the scope of the supposed right is so narrow that it may as well apply to only albinos or something similarly retarded and discriminatory...but assuming the state advantages the recipients of their marriage loicenses, and the state treats its subjects equally, it follows in my view that as counter productive as it is, the language doesn't preclude marriage from falling under equal protection.

Perhaps I'm missing something?
I would go against this. I believe gay marriage should be allowed. Most of the issues coming from it are factors that seem out of its control. I am going to take a wild guess, and say a good chunk of gays are normal in that they can have a functional relationship, go to their 9/5, come home, raise the kid, etc.. The problem is that most of those individuals are gone from the LGBT community since they have nothing to fight for. This creates massive problems as really the community should be ceasing to exist as acceptance moves forward (since gay shouldn’t be a defining trait) but instead it grew out of popularity.

Most current year LGBT within the community are grifters who are looking for an outlet to give them power. A big crux being straight up incels who probably hated the community before they could grift for pussy by being a tranny. Stuff like pedo activity was an issue within Christian circles beforehand till Dems snuffed out the Church and reandered them useless. Now the LGBT community is the new place for the freaks to hide as old and young Dems have unwavering allegiance to that community given their fight with the right. This just created a massive entrance for the problematic to walk in and do whatever now.

Best way to sum this up, the community went to shit because the normal peeps left and it became a sacred cow immune to criticism. At that point it just became, weirdo OGs from before the passing, the new age grifters, the allies who want ass pats, and any other desperate loser they can con into being part of the cult. I cannot fully blame gays when they probably got shafted in their own community and the “allies” either don’t give a fuck to see what is going on, or allow it as to not be hateful.
 
Like Roe, they could have done so by legislating it through Congress. The downside with using rulings to create laws is that they are easily undone if new judges get appointed. Judges are obviously important, but they are the ones interpreting laws, not creating them like the legislative branch does.
well they could do a lot of things but they're not gonna

my point is that abortion is inherently a state rights' issue, marriage super duper isn't
 
kicking gay marriage back to the states is a retarded idea

the federal government has to take a stand on gay marriage for all kinds of reasons, immigration being the big one
The public doesn't give a shit about it either while abortion at least was still a hot topic issue. And then you'd have to deal with all the people who already got married under the current system. Unless the SCOTUS is completely autistic, I don't see why they would even touch this one.
 
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kicking gay marriage back to the states is a retarded idea

the federal government has to take a stand on gay marriage for all kinds of reasons, immigration being the big one
Not if we keep a federal civil union on hand. Just a little something to take care of the legal particulars.

Not everyone, for varying factors, goes to the doctor immediately afterwards to report their rape/abuse. How can you not conceptualize this as a possibility? "Live Issue" even that list that was put up says there's some that get abortions for that reason, even if it's not a lot. If there is some, then it is an issue. I mean holy shit, I'm sure the number of people murdered isn't a big part of total deaths either, but we still have to deal with it as a society.



I honestly shouldn't be responding to this horrible autistic rambling that includes Star Wars terminology unironically, but my source is myself. I was abused, but didn't get pregnant, and if I had and had to do what you wanted me to do, I'd be dead because I would have offed myself in that nightmare scenario.

No I don't have any "properly conducted research," but you know what you talk about women like zoo animals you have to read a book about to understand. That alone is so incredibly pathetic that I'm getting second hand embarrassment for you. Meet some women in real life please.

So IOW if a child is a byproduct of abuse, somebody is going to die. It's just a question of who and when.
 
you will never, ever get within miles of a woman like that. adjust your expectations.
I have, they just hate me.
View attachment 3249279

After observing lefty rage over roe v wade, they're scared that it'll extend to contraceptives, gay marriage, etc. However, they don't seem to realize that it's incredibly easy to make something a right. Pass a law to make it a right or declare an EO. Seemingly most of the major social victories of the left have been through SCOTUS rulings that bypassed the legislative and executive branches.
I mean to be fair I think some of the Left's victories have been legislative. Or at the very least they could secure them through the legislative process.
this is not as entertaining as I hoped
It is quickly becoming disturbing as they continue to radicalize...
What a logical statement that I'm sure doesn't apply to any other political issue for you like gun deaths or police interactions.
It doesn't. This is like one of the few issues where I both depart from the Overton Window and care enough to raise hell over it.

No, I wouldn't want to keep my rapist's child to term. Jesus Christ, just shut the fuck up already. I mean this isn't a mainstream Republican talking point anywhere that raped women should be forced to have their rapist's children. But this is the internet where everyone is an edgy extremist contrarian asshole, so I guess we have to litigate things that all sane people agree on, because the world has to be black and white completely.

Also a lot of these cases will be underaged children, some raped by by blood relatives, so yeah it's even more fucked up we have to go there, and you have to tell us why literal kids have to have their lives ruined over being abused because some dudes on the intenret who will never experience either sexual assault or pregnancy can't conceptualize what that would be like.

This clip is like the most useful one ever.
Not everyone, for varying factors, goes to the doctor immediately afterwards to report their rape/abuse. How can you not conceptualize this as a possibility? "Live Issue" even that list that was put up says there's some that get abortions for that reason, even if it's not a lot. If there is some, then it is an issue. I mean holy shit, I'm sure the number of people murdered isn't a big part of total deaths either, but we still have to deal with it as a society.



I honestly shouldn't be responding to this horrible autistic rambling that includes Star Wars terminology unironically, but my source is myself. I was abused, but didn't get pregnant, and if I had and had to do what you wanted me to do, I'd be dead because I would have offed myself in that nightmare scenario.

No I don't have any "properly conducted research," but you know what you talk about women like zoo animals you have to read a book about to understand. That alone is so incredibly pathetic that I'm getting second hand embarrassment for you. Meet some women in real life please.
Look, I understand that shit is rough and I feel for you. But that doesn't give you the right to kill your child. If necessary, you should have been institutionalized for your own safety and the safety of your child as you would clearly be unable to care for yourself or think clearly due to your mental state. I understand that may seem...rather heavy handed. But it is necessary in a civilized society. Besides, a stay in a facility could do wonders for a woman's mental rehabilitation following abuse.
while I agree with your textual interpretation, we should consider the benefits of married life. taxes, inheritance, life insurance.
it would be cool if someone created a "Union" with most of the marriage benefits.
Personally, I think that marriage and the benefits of marriage need to be divorced, pun intended. Put that behind a civil union based system and let the churches handle marriage.
The public doesn't give a shit about it either while abortion at least was still a hot topic issue. And then you'd have to deal with all the people who already got married under the current system. Unless the SCOTUS is completely autistic, I don't see why they would even touch this one.
Completely agreed. I don't agree with gay marriage but like contraception we have opened up Pandora's box and just have to live with it.
 
No, I wouldn't want to keep my rapist's child to term. Jesus Christ, just shut the fuck up already. I mean this isn't a mainstream Republican talking point anywhere that raped women should be forced to have their rapist's children. But this is the internet where everyone is an edgy extremist contrarian asshole, so I guess we have to litigate things that all sane people agree on, because the world has to be black and white completely.

Also a lot of these cases will be underaged children, some raped by by blood relatives, so yeah it's even more fucked up we have to go there, and you have to tell us why literal kids have to have their lives ruined over being abused because some dudes on the intenret who will never experience either sexual assault or pregnancy can't conceptualize what that would be like.
don't waste your breath, they don't care. it's all completely abstract to them and they enjoy seeing you in pain.

other women: do not participate in threads like this for anything but lulz, these men are unreachable
 
well they could do a lot of things but they're not gonna

my point is that abortion is inherently a state rights' issue, marriage super duper isn't
Legally, it is something that should be decided by the states:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
If the feds want to use their own definition of marriage for chain migration, they can as immigration is a power granted by the Constitution to the federal government, but what they can't do is force the people or states to recognize their definition. This is confusing because nearly every federal law passed in the last 125 years is unconstitutional, but under the text of the Constitution, marriage is a state issue.
 
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