SCOTUS to Overturn Roe V Wade according to draft opinion obtained by Politico - And here we go

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The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito circulated inside the court and obtained by POLITICO.
The draft opinion is a full-throated, unflinching repudiation of the 1973 decision which guaranteed federal constitutional protections of abortion rights and a subsequent 1992 decision – Planned Parenthood v. Casey – that largely maintained the right. “Roe was egregiously wrong from the start,” Alito writes.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.”


Deliberations on controversial cases have in the past been fluid. Justices can and sometimes do change their votes as draft opinions circulate and major decisions can be subject to multiple drafts and vote-trading, sometimes until just days before a decision is unveiled. The court’s holding will not be final until it is published, likely in the next two months.
The immediate impact of the ruling as drafted in February would be to end a half-century guarantee of federal constitutional protection of abortion rights and allow each state to decide whether to restrict or ban abortion. It’s unclear if there have been subsequent changes to the draft.
No draft decision in the modern history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was still pending. The unprecedented revelation is bound to intensify the debate over what was already the most controversial case on the docket this term.
The draft opinion offers an extraordinary window into the justices’ deliberations in one of the most consequential cases before the court in the last five decades. Some court-watchers predicted that the conservative majority would slice away at abortion rights without flatly overturning a 49-year-old precedent. The draft shows that the court is looking to reject Roe’s logic and legal protections.
Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. Its reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division.”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
A person familiar with the court’s deliberations said that four of the other Republican-appointed justices – Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett – had voted with Alito in the conference held among the justices after hearing oral arguments in December, and that line-up remains unchanged as of this week.


The three Democratic-appointed justices – Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan – are working on one or more dissents, according to the person. How Chief Justice John Roberts will ultimately vote, and whether he will join an already written opinion or draft his own, is unclear.
The document, labeled as a first draft of the majority opinion, includes a notation that it was circulated among the justices on Feb. 10. If the Alito draft is adopted, it would rule in favor of Mississippi in the closely watched case over that state’s attempt to ban most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy.
A Supreme Court spokesperson declined to comment or make another representative of the court available to answer questions about the draft document.
POLITICO received a copy of the draft opinion from a person familiar with the court’s proceedings in the Mississippi case along with other details supporting the authenticity of the document. The draft opinion runs 98 pages, including a 31-page appendix of historical state abortion laws. The document is replete with citations to previous court decisions, books and other authorities, and includes 118 footnotes. The appearances and timing of this draft are consistent with court practice.
The disclosure of Alito’s draft majority opinion – a rare breach of Supreme Court secrecy and tradition around its deliberations – comes as all sides in the abortion debate are girding for the ruling. Speculation about the looming decision has been intense since the December oral arguments indicated a majority was inclined to support the Mississippi law.
Under longstanding court procedures, justices hold preliminary votes on cases shortly after argument and assign a member of the majority to write a draft of the court’s opinion. The draft is often amended in consultation with other justices, and in some cases the justices change their votes altogether, creating the possibility that the current alignment on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization could change.
The chief justice typically assigns majority opinions when he is in the majority. When he is not, that decision is typically made by the most senior justice in the majority.

‘Exceptionally weak’​

A George W. Bush appointee who joined the court in 2006, Alito argues that the 1973 abortion rights ruling was an ill-conceived and deeply flawed decision that invented a right mentioned nowhere in the Constitution and unwisely sought to wrench the contentious issue away from the political branches of government.
Alito’s draft ruling would overturn a decision by the New Orleans-based 5th Circuit Court of Appeals that found the Mississippi law ran afoul of Supreme Court precedent by seeking to effectively ban abortions before viability.

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Roe’s “survey of history ranged from the constitutionally irrelevant to the plainly incorrect,” Alito continues, adding that its reasoning was “exceptionally weak,” and that the original decision has had “damaging consequences.”
“The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation’s history and traditions,” Alito writes.
Alito approvingly quotes a broad range of critics of the Roe decision. He also points to liberal icons such as the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe, who at certain points in their careers took issue with the reasoning in Roe or its impact on the political process.
Alito’s skewering of Roe and the endorsement of at least four other justices for that unsparing critique is also a measure of the court’s rightward turn in recent decades. Roe was decided 7-2 in 1973, with five Republican appointees joining two justices nominated by Democratic presidents.
The overturning of Roe would almost immediately lead to stricter limits on abortion access in large swaths of the South and Midwest, with about half of the states set to immediately impose broad abortion bans. Any state could still legally allow the procedure.
“The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion,” the draft concludes. “Roe and Casey arrogated that authority. We now overrule those decisions and return that authority to the people and their elected representatives.”
The draft contains the type of caustic rhetorical flourishes Alito is known for and that has caused Roberts, his fellow Bush appointee, some discomfort in the past.
At times, Alito’s draft opinion takes an almost mocking tone as it skewers the majority opinion in Roe, written by Justice Harry Blackmun, a Richard Nixon appointee who died in 1999.
Roe expressed the ‘feel[ing]’ that the Fourteenth Amendment was the provision that did the work, but its message seemed to be that the abortion right could be found somewhere in the Constitution and that specifying its exact location was not of paramount importance,” Alito writes.
Alito declares that one of the central tenets of Roe, the “viability” distinction between fetuses not capable of living outside the womb and those which can, “makes no sense.”
In several passages, he describes doctors and nurses who terminate pregnancies as “abortionists.”
When Roberts voted with liberal jurists in 2020 to block a Louisiana law imposing heavier regulations on abortion clinics, his solo concurrence used the more neutral term “abortion providers.” In contrast, Justice Clarence Thomas used the word “abortionist” 25 times in a solo dissent in the same case.


Alito’s use of the phrase “egregiously wrong” to describe Roe echoes language Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart used in December in defending his state’s ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. The phrase was also contained in an opinion Kavanaugh wrote as part of a 2020 ruling that jury convictions in criminal cases must be unanimous.
In that opinion, Kavanaugh labeled two well-known Supreme Court decisions “egregiously wrong when decided”: the 1944 ruling upholding the detention of Japanese Americans during World War II, Korematsu v. United States, and the 1896 decision that blessed racial segregation under the rubric of “separate but equal,” Plessy v. Ferguson.
The high court has never formally overturned Korematsu, but did repudiate the decision in a 2018 ruling by Roberts that upheld then-President Donald Trump’s travel ban policy.

The legacy of Plessy v. Ferguson​

Plessy remained the law of the land for nearly six decades until the court overturned it with the Brown v. Board of Education school desegregation ruling in 1954.
Quoting Kavanaugh, Alito writes of Plessy: “It was ‘egregiously wrong,’ on the day it was decided.”
Alito’s draft opinion includes, in small type, a list of about two pages’ worth of decisions in which the justices overruled prior precedents – in many instances reaching results praised by liberals.
The implication that allowing states to outlaw abortion is on par with ending legal racial segregation has been hotly disputed. But the comparison underscores the conservative justices’ belief that Roe is so flawed that the justices should disregard their usual hesitations about overturning precedent and wholeheartedly renounce it.
Alito’s draft opinion ventures even further into this racially sensitive territory by observing in a footnote that some early proponents of abortion rights also had unsavory views in favor of eugenics.
“Some such supporters have been motivated by a desire to suppress the size of the African American population,” Alito writes. “It is beyond dispute that Roe has had that demographic effect. A highly disproportionate percentage of aborted fetuses are black.”
Alito writes that by raising the point he isn’t casting aspersions on anyone. “For our part, we do not question the motives of either those who have supported and those who have opposed laws restricting abortion,” he writes.
Alito also addresses concern about the impact the decision could have on public discourse. “We cannot allow our decisions to be affected by any extraneous influences such as concern about the public’s reaction to our work,” Alito writes. “We do not pretend to know how our political system or society will respond to today’s decision overruling Roe and Casey. And even if we could foresee what will happen, we would have no authority to let that knowledge influence our decision.”


In the main opinion in the 1992 Casey decision, Justices Sandra Day O’Connor, Anthony Kennedy and Davis Souter warned that the court would pay a “terrible price” for overruling Roe, despite criticism of the decision from some in the public and the legal community.
“While it has engendered disapproval, it has not been unworkable,” the three justices wrote then. “An entire generation has come of age free to assume Roe‘s concept of liberty in defining the capacity of women to act in society, and to make reproductive decisions; no erosion of principle going to liberty or personal autonomy has left Roe‘s central holding a doctrinal remnant.”
When Dobbs was argued in December, Roberts seemed out of sync with the other conservative justices, as he has been in a number of cases including one challenging the Affordable Care Act.
At the argument session last fall, Roberts seemed to be searching for a way to uphold Mississippi’s 15-week ban without completely abandoning the Roe framework.
“Viability, it seems to me, doesn’t have anything to do with choice. But, if it really is an issue about choice, why is 15 weeks not enough time?” Roberts asked during the arguments. “The thing that is at issue before us today is 15 weeks.”

Nods to conservative colleagues​

While Alito’s draft opinion doesn’t cater much to Roberts’ views, portions of it seem intended to address the specific interests of other justices. One passage argues that social attitudes toward out-of-wedlock pregnancies “have changed drastically” since the 1970s and that increased demand for adoption makes abortion less necessary.
Those points dovetail with issues that Barrett – a Trump appointee and the court’s newest member – raised at the December arguments. She suggested laws allowing people to surrender newborn babies on a no-questions-asked basis mean carrying a pregnancy to term doesn’t oblige one to engage in child rearing.
“Why don’t the safe haven laws take care of that problem?” asked Barrett, who adopted two of her seven children.
Much of Alito’s draft is devoted to arguing that widespread criminalization of abortion during the 19th and early 20th century belies the notion that a right to abortion is implied in the Constitution.
The conservative justice attached to his draft a 31-page appendix listing laws passed to criminalize abortion during that period. Alito claims “an unbroken tradition of prohibiting abortion on pain of criminal punishment…from the earliest days of the common law until 1973.”


“Until the latter part of the 20th century, there was no support in American law for a constitutional right to obtain an abortion. Zero. None. No state constitutional provision had recognized such a right,” Alito adds.
Alito’s draft argues that rights protected by the Constitution but not explicitly mentioned in it – so-called unenumerated rights – must be strongly rooted in U.S. history and tradition. That form of analysis seems at odds with several of the court’s recent decisions, including many of its rulings backing gay rights.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision....”
Justice Samuel Alito in an initial draft majority opinion
Liberal justices seem likely to take issue with Alito’s assertion in the draft opinion that overturning Roe would not jeopardize other rights the courts have grounded in privacy, such as the right to contraception, to engage in private consensual sexual activity and to marry someone of the same sex.
“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito writes. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”
Alito’s draft opinion rejects the idea that abortion bans reflect the subjugation of women in American society. “Women are not without electoral or political power,” he writes. “The percentage of women who register to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so.”
The Supreme Court remains one of Washington’s most secretive institutions, priding itself on protecting the confidentiality of its internal deliberations.
“At the Supreme Court, those who know don’t talk, and those who talk don’t know,” Ginsburg was fond of saying.
That tight-lipped reputation has eroded somewhat in recent decades due to a series of books by law clerks, law professors and investigative journalists. Some of these authors clearly had access to draft opinions such as the one obtained by POLITICO, but their books emerged well after the cases in question were resolved.
The justices held their final arguments of the current term on Wednesday. The court has set a series of sessions over the next two months to release rulings in its still-unresolved cases, including the Mississippi abortion case.
 
denying abortion in case of rape is just absurd. it would basically mean forcing the woman to endure the rape for 9 months straight. complete insanity.
also, even if you are a callous cynic and ignore this injustice and suffering, it would still be a terrible decision, because it would basically be an endorsement of rape as a mating strategy, it would have extremely fucked up implications for society going forward.
I will add that these cases are so rare that we only have a handful of them for modern reference.

Given the tens of millions spent for abortion legislation and that only the MOST restrictive states do not have an exemption for rape/incest; funds to transport these small group of women to places where they can get an abortion is a possibility.

Other avenues are seeking a referendum. If the laws are so restrictive that it offends the sensibility of the electorate they ballot box is always an option.
 
Yeah well, tiny percentages of the general population still makes up a giant amount of people. Sucks to be them I guess. I know of enough people who got into that situation while being 'ResponsibleTM'. Condom broke, one had an undiagnosed bowel disorder and shit out the pill (I kid you not) before it could be absorbed, one's body excreted the IUD, rendering it ineffective, etc.
Hahaha how did I miss this the first time? Who cares that your weirdo friend got the shits- we all have bodies and all of our bodies malfunction sometimes and we are all responsible for monitoring them and caring for them accordingly. Having sex means risking pregnancy, even if you're taking the pill or use a condom. Don't want the risk, don't take it on. Seat belts don't guarantee you won't crash your car so drive carefully.
A sperg post on the Viagra argument and Christianity (Note I am not a Biblical scholar and there a great many sects of Christianity who all have minute little rule differences)
A lot of Pro-Abortion people use the "Viagra Argument" as a gotcha towards Pro-Lifers. The argument is that if God makes your dick stop working it is wrong to use Viagra because according to them it is Gods Will (which these people do not generally believe in, ie the smuggies comic). Now once again I am not a Biblical scholar but this is retarded for a reason most people don't think about.
Bible says that two married persons should not deny each other sexual relations except when mutually agreed upon, that is if your woman wants to go at it you are obliged to go at it and vice versa (thus a historical leniency towards what we now know as Marital rape). Now this gets into conversations about possibility of procreation (older couples having sex, sex while pregnant, sex when one or more partners are sterile etc etc) but it could theoretically be possibly argued that a Husband would actually be obligated to utilize Viagra to sexually satisfy his wife.
Christianity opposes abortion not because it's wrong to "interfere with God's will" by taking medications or doing surgery but because abortion ends the life of a helpless and innocent human being. It's murder. There's no general Christian objection to taking medication, though some fringe sects may have that. Catholics prohibit contraception but again, not on "medical intervention bad" grounds, but a more sophisticated argument about the purpose of sex.
It's depressing how many otherwise rational women I'm seeing go absolutely insane over this. They really don't see any value in a potential human life or any reason that other people might.

Also the "My body, my choice" line has lost pretty much all meaning when these same people were screeching "Fuck your rights to body autonomy, get the fucking vaccine! The government should make laws forcing you to!"
That's the one silver lining of what they put us all through this year. They look transparently like utter buffoons now that they are trying to pivot back to their old stand-by slogan.
The one from my PL that has me pissed is this bitch I know who only barely managed to have the one kid she does and was told her uterus is so fucked up she'll probably never have another. She brags on him being her "miracle baby from God" all the time but has been posting snide pro-choice memes and whining about men "taking rights away" from women.

I mean holy shit..of all people who should value the sanctity of life you'd think it'd be her, but then again she was never exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. The Bible wasn't exaggerating, a good woman is worth more than rubies, because they're even more fucking hard to find.
I told the story of the woman I know who aborted her twins and then played the victim about it. Another one that springs to mind is a lady who had a difficult (but not life-threatening) birth with her only child and now goes around telling everyone that having her kid made her more pro-choice. What an incredibly fucked up thing for that child to hear- it implies that mom sorta kinda regrets going through all that for her. Just AWFL.
An amendment would be super unlikely. It wouldn’t be an issue enough states could agree to. I’ve seen people trying to meme passing the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) to protect abortion, but Dems would need control of more states and supermajorities to have a chance of that.
How would they even work the ERA now that troons are front and center? I'd like to see them try.
New NPC update: They claim it's now infringing the right to privacy and will end up with the GOP essentially ending the 4th amendment.
They should be ok with that given they endorse things like the CDC spying on our phones and restaurants getting to look at our medical records before we can order a salad.
A lot of these are irrelevant- Roe has nothing to do with the fact that women like "Vanessa" have miscarriages, which are now and would be in a post-Roe world treated medically. There is no law against emptying a womb of a dead baby, and never was and never will be. Theresa's hemorrhage would not have been prevented by abortion except insofar as "if I kill myself before I get in my car, I can never die in a car crash" is also true. Melissa qualifies for social safety net programs and I don't mind at all paying for those to help innocent kids. The question of whether it's better to abort or struggle more is a non sequitur if you believe abortion is murder. Might as well threaten to kill one of her older kids for all I care- wrong is wrong.

The one that really grinds my gears is "Becky" though because I know a few things about the world of high risk obstetrics. Abortion saves her nothing. She has a deformed, possibly doomed child in her body. One way or another, it has to come out of her. At 20 weeks, she will experience the physical sensations of labor no matter if you kill the child first or not. She will grieve no matter if the child dies in her body or outside of it. So what, exactly, is the argument for killing it before it can be born instead of letting nature take its course? "Preventing suffering"- well now this is just euthanasia. Why not kill granddad before his covid goes to his lungs and why not smother auntie in the nursing home before her dementia gets any worse? Why not just kill Becky so she doesn't have to live through grief and PTSD? Once you start killing for "mercy" you will never stop. Look at the Netherlands or Canada.
 
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If abortion isn't used as birth control women shouldn't be posting about how many abortions they have and praising that she can do a super ghost Kamakaize attack with the aborted babies she killed.
Very few woman are doing that and most are likely just trolling to piss you evangelical fundies off
 
So do you also want to ban heart operations and lipsuction then? How about lung and throat cancer treatment? If we want to force people into personal responsibility, let them suffer for their life choices

False comparison since those don't require killing a baby.

How was it during the vaccine mandate? If it saves one life....
 
Plenty of your fellow Republicans are. In Missouri they want to ban it in every case, including cases where the fetus dies in the woman's womb and is just rotting inside of her.
Like I said, I believe in myself. And I don't agree with banning all abortions because there are cases, although very minimal are needed for rape, incest, sake of the other or the baby was gonna die anyway.
 
I've known some girls that were basically coerced into doing so by their parents and let me tell you they are broken. Sorry but @DumbDude42 is absolutely correct.
There are cases where women have raised the kid. They see it solely as there’s, not the rapists. A few of the kids know.
I can attest I've seen both scenarios you two have described, sometimes simultaneously. Women will respond differently, but no matter what it's a horrific situation.

Someone earlier said it's like forcing women to be faced by their rapist for 9 months, and that's incorrect. It's lifetime sentence, even if they adopt it away. Actually, adopting away rape babies produces some even more fucked emotions from what I've seen, a mix of grieving and hatred for the child.

I don't consider fetuses to be children, but even if I did I'd support abortion for rape. What' you're condemning the mother to is just as cruel as killing a child, it's just a matter of picking the sin you can live with. Might as well let the women choose the sin in that case.
 
if you force the woman to keep that child of rape, you contribute to the continued success of the rapists crime, at his victims expense. even if you execute the rapist himself, leaving his rapespawn alive means he and his crime live on through it.
Counterpoint: sins of the father is not sins of the son
 
False comparison since those don't require killing a baby.

How was it during the vaccine mandate? If it saves one life....
Come on, little guy. You said "personal responsibility". Those are all about personal responsibility. Oh, right, it's not actually about personal responsibility. You just want to push your religious zealotry on the rest of us

And you GOP fundies sure are obsessed with babies, which is ironic considering once they're born you throw a temper tantrum if a woman gets welfare.

It's ironic given you threw temper tantrums about vaccine mandates because "MAH BODY" but now you're fine with removing women's bodily autonomy. I know you are upset people are having sex, but that's how it is
 
it is all about babies. the differences are a result of human babies being very different from most animal babies in that they are born completely helpless and remain utterly dependant on their mother for an extremely long time. this made long term family stability mandatory for survival throughout most of human history, so human sexuality evolved in a way that supports and incentivizes long term pair bonding.
You're right technically, pair bonding is for raising babies so it all comes back to babies. I'm just saying that there are more functions to sex for humans, and not every sexual counter needs to have a child to be meaningful for us.
 
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