Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread

[Elbereth]

>Well, I'm not actually naive to call money from EU "free money"
But you did basically say it was free money until I pointed out how it's parasitic to the citizens of western nations.

Because I was going along your line of logic?

 

[mr.moon1488]

Because I was going along your line of logic?

Lol no, you were being a nigger and then changed your story when you got called on it.

 

[Elbereth]

Lol no, you were being a nigger and then changed your story when you got called on it.

>who has it better of Poland or Belarus?
>well, everybody with half of brain know that it is Polnad
>But Poland have it better only because free gibs from EU > : (
>Ok, so if EU is awesome to give free gibs, why join Russia?
>Um, it's actually bad for EU > : (
>It's not really free money, EU are also benefiting from it
>HAHA, OWNED YOU SAID EU GIVES FREE GIBS

 

[ColtWalker1847]

>Well, I'm not actually naive to call money from EU "free money"
But you did basically say it was free money until I pointed out how it's parasitic to the citizens of western nations.

Using soft power to help a neighbor build infrastructure, improve standards of living, and root out corruption. Nope. No reason to do that. None at all.

Welp, off to go make Polish Plumber jokes and bitch about Polish emigres and generally be mad that they are all coming over here. If there was only a way to stop it. But how?

 

[Givi]

Yes. They did. The minute an offensive war kicked off would be the minute the aid stopped.

Don't be retarded, please. It wouldn't be getting pomp and circumstance or much acknowledgement from Government officials like it does, but it would almost certainly continue. The US couldn't give less of a shit about the 2014 conflict being resolved through an offensive, especially if it resulted in Ukraine essentially ending Russian interests and hold in their country through the LDPR regions.

Not to mention such an offensive would be deeply unpopular with Ukrainians.

Literally who cares? People put way too much stock into civilian opinion. Most military personnel in Ukraine probably wouldn't mind and that's all you need, and even if they did, you could just send natives from Western Ukraine who probably would care less. The intention wouldn't be a years long war, it would be quick lightning offensive to decapitate the DPR and LPR, after which both republics would hopefully quickly collapse. It's been done a million times and is the exact same thing the Russians tried in this very war.

And in any case, war has a fun way of rallying people together, especially one that can be so easily justified as a final ending to an 8 year conflict that could potentially get them NATO membership and finally, safety from Russia.

Zelensky was a Russian detente guy, don't forget, and he won by a pretty huge margin.

And politicians ALWAYS keep their word, especially when other world powers would rather other things happen, and certain echelons of the armed forces also want to see other things happen. Don't forget I didn't say it would be Zelensky who's in charge when it happened in any case. The theorized offensive could have happened years ago or even years from now.

So close to an admission that it was always about Russia

What admission? It was always about Russia, that's obvious. The separatists seceded because they didn't feel Ukrainian and wanted to be happy in vatnik land, and felt increasingly ostracized from the larger Ukrainian state due to anti-russian language measures (which are, by the way, understandable but retarded at the same time) among other stuff. This was never a secret and I don't think anyone believed the separatists didn't want to join Russia.

Donbabwe and Luganda are Russian puppet enclaves backed and funded and armed by the Russian state.

Saying this demonstrates either a complete lack of knowledge about what happened in Ukraine from 2013-2022 (before that really, but whatever), or even worse, you don't want to understand because you're stuck in a retarded Cold War mindset of endless Russia tunnel-vision and failing to see the broader political landscape and social upheaval of the time.

Their creation and existence is entirely because of Russia. If you are talking about Ukrainian beef with them you are talking about beef with Russia.

This is wrong, yet also true.

It's right, because obviously without Russia they wouldn't exist (no Russia means nothing to secede because of) but it's hugely wrong at the same time.

It wasn't Russians who set fire to the Trade Unions House in Odessa, killing 46 anti-maidan protesters and it wasn't Russians who had Ukraine so deeply divided that 81% of the residents of East Ukraine didn't support Euromaidan and believed their president had been couped. Ukraine's problems are almost entirely things that had been festering for ages due to the last retarded Soviet policies (lol what a surprise).

Acting like they are totally independent free countries acting without outside influence is a misrepresentation of reality

It is, which is why I never said such a thing in any of my posts. The DPR/LPR work under the constraints of what Russia wants - that's a fact. But it's completely untrue to say that their creation was due to Russia, Russia merely took advantage of the situation because it's political gold.

The DPR/LPR came to be because they didn't want to be Ukrainian. There is no way around this. If they didn't have popular support, they would have collapsed almost immediately. On the contrary, the volunteers for the military flooded in, entire Ukrainian units and veterans defected to the ranks of the separatist militias (IIRC, a lot of of the Ukrainian Alpha Group defected at the start of the war, including the future commander of the Vostok Battalion), an Army was assembled and manned, and an 8 year conflict was fought. Without the pro-Russian sentiment present in the East for so long, none of this would have been possible.

From this post I assume you're American, because there's nothing more American than presuming someone is going to fight a war purely because X or Y person or country wants them to, a belief that bit the US in the ass more times than I can even recall. If the separatists didn't want out of Ukraine, and badly, we wouldn't be in this thread right now.

PS: Can the polack fuck off from this thread already? Literally every post he makes is fucking retarded and instantly derails the thread and lowers it from its already low standard of quality for at least 4 or 5 pages.

 

[mr.moon1488]

>who has it better of Poland or Belarus?
>well, everybody with half of brain know that it is Polnad
>But Poland have it better only because free gibs from EU > : (
>Ok, so if EU is awesome to give free gibs, why join Russia?
>Um, it's actually bad for EU > : (
>It's not really free money, EU are also benefiting from it
>HAHA, OWNED YOU SAID EU GIVES FREE GIBS

lol I feel like I just broke the algorithm here.

Using soft power to help a neighbor build infrastructure, improve standards of living, and root out corruption. Nope. No reason to do that. None at all.

Welp, off to go make Polish Plumber jokes and bitch about Polish emigres and generally be mad that they are all coming over here. If there was only a way to stop it. But how?

Good lord, these are the exact same arguments made for throwing money at Israel, though that's not really surprising.

 

[Elbereth]

lol I feel like I just broke the algorithm here.

Jesus Christ You really think this is some epic ownage?

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Don't be retarded, please. It wouldn't be getting pomp and circumstance or much acknowledgement from Government officials like it does, but it would almost certainly continue. The US couldn't give less of a shit about the 2014 conflict being resolved through an offensive, especially if it resulted in Ukraine essentially ending Russian interests and hold in their country through the LDPR regions.


Literally who cares? People put way too much stock into civilian opinion. Most military personnel in Ukraine probably wouldn't mind and that's all you need, and even if they did, you could just send natives from Western Ukraine who probably would care less. The intention wouldn't be a years long war, it would be quick lightning offensive to decapitate the DPR and LPR, after which both republics would hopefully quickly collapse. It's been done a million times and is the exact same thing the Russians tried in this very war.

And in any case, war has a fun way of rallying people together, especially one that can be so easily justified as a final ending to an 8 year conflict that could potentially get them NATO membership and finally, safety from Russia.


And politicians ALWAYS keep their word, especially when other world powers would rather other things happen, and certain echelons of the armed forces also want to see other things happen. Don't forget I didn't say it would be Zelensky who's in charge when it happened in any case. The theorized offensive could have happened years ago or even years from now.


What admission? It was always about Russia, that's obvious. The separatists seceded because they didn't feel Ukrainian and wanted to be happy in vatnik land, and felt increasingly ostracized from the larger Ukrainian state due to anti-russian language measures (which are, by the way, understandable but retarded at the same time) among other stuff. This was never a secret and I don't think anyone believed the separatists didn't want to join Russia.


Saying this demonstrates either a complete lack of knowledge about what happened in Ukraine from 2013-2022 (before that really, but whatever), or even worse, you don't want to understand because you're stuck in a retarded Cold War mindset of endless Russia tunnel-vision and failing to see the broader political landscape and social upheaval of the time.


This is wrong, yet also true.

It's right, because obviously without Russia they wouldn't exist (no Russia means nothing to secede because of) but it's hugely wrong at the same time.

It wasn't Russians who set fire to the Trade Unions House in Odessa, killing 46 anti-maidan protesters and it wasn't Russians who had Ukraine so deeply divided that 81% of the residents of East Ukraine didn't support Euromaidan and believed their president had been couped. Ukraine's problems are almost entirely things that had been festering for ages due to the last retarded Soviet policies (lol what a surprise).


It is, which is why I never said such a thing in any of my posts. The DPR/LPR work under the constraints of what Russia wants - that's a fact. But it's completely untrue to say that their creation was due to Russia, Russia merely took advantage of the situation because it's political gold.

The DPR/LPR came to be because they didn't want to be Ukrainian. There is no way around this. If they didn't have popular support, they would have collapsed almost immediately. On the contrary, the volunteers for the military flooded in, entire Ukrainian divisions and veterans defected to the ranks of the separatist militias, an Army was assembled and manned, and an 8 year conflict was fought. Without the pro-Russian sentiment present in the East for so long, none of this would have been possible.

From this post I assume you're American, because there's nothing more American than presuming someone is going to fight a war purely because X or Y person or country wants them to, a belief that bit the US in the ass more times than I can even recall. If the separatists didn't want out of Ukraine, and badly, we wouldn't be in this thread right now.

PS: Can the retarded polack fuck off from this thread already? Literally every post he makes is fucking retarded and instantly derails the thread and lowers it from its already low standard of quality for at least 4 or 5 pages.

That's a lot of words to say "I don't believe Russia had it's hand up the ass of separatist groups" and "little green men weren't real".

For all the kvetching Russia does about western meddling in Ukraine they sure never seemed to be unwilling to engage in it.

 

[White_N]

Pope Francis held a meeting in Rome today with two wives of Ukrainian soldiers who are now at the Azovstal plant in Mariupol.

In Europe, streets are named after Ukraine.

Translated from Ukrainian, the exact names may differ.

>who has it better of Poland or Belarus?

Belarus, hands down. They have Luca.

 

[CometBop]

That's a lot of words to say "I don't believe Russia had it's hand up the ass of separatist groups" and "little green men weren't real".

For all the kvetching Russia does about western meddling in Ukraine they sure never seemed to be unwilling to engage in it.

probably has to cope like that after his own namesake god emperor GIVI got iced by his own handlers

 

[Givi]

That's a lot of words to say "I don't believe Russia had it's hand up the ass of separatist groups" and "little green men weren't real".

For all the kvetching Russia does about western meddling in Ukraine they sure never seemed to be unwilling to engage in it.

That's a lot of words for "I didn't read your post because I'm a boomer retard who can't comprehend anything that isn't one side vs another side with absolutely no nuance or consideration for the political landscape of the time".

Seriously, if you're this fucking retarded, don't try to discuss geopolitics, troglodyte. I never said half the shit you accuse me of saying (I especially never claimed there was never any Russian involvement in the Ukraine conflict), you're fighting an invisible vatnik strawman you've created so you can live out your cold war fantasy of sticking to the Russians.

tldr; Kill yourself.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

That's a lot of words for "I didn't read your post because I'm a boomer retard who can't comprehend anything that isn't one side vs another side with absolutely no nuance or consideration for the political landscape of the time".

Seriously, if you're this fucking retarded, don't try to discuss geopolitics, troglodyte. I never said half the shit you accuse me of saying (I especially never claimed there was never any Russian involvement in the Ukraine conflict), you're fighting an invisible vatnik strawman you've created so you can live out your cold war fantasy of sticking to the Russians.

tldr; Kill yourself.

Don't try to play the "I'm being neutral guise" card when your screed is nothing but whatabboutism justifying the Russian narrative.

 

[Elbereth]

Belarus, hands down. They have Luca.

The same leader that Belarusian wanted to overthrow not so long ago?

 

[Givi]

Don't try to play the "I'm being neutral guise" card when your screed is nothing but whatabboutism justifying the Russian narrative.

Not only do you not understand what "whataboutism" is (I didn't do it in that post, at all), you also obviously didn't read my post, or at the very least, you're too fucking stupid to comprehend it, which is impressive since it wasn't exactly hard to get. There is no "Russian narrative" to justify in the Donbas war, there is the reality, and nothing else, and it isn't pro-Russian either.

I also never made an attempt to stay neutral, I have always wilfully disclosed that I'm firmly in the separatist side, and couldn't care less about Russia.

Point me to a single point in my post that is wrong.

 

[Su-27 Flanker-B]

Read all the post by this retarded polish sperg. Now imagine that 75% of your classroom is like this. Now ask yourself, why the remaining 25% wants to leave.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Point me to a single point in my post that is wrong.

That NATO was training the UAF to invade Donbas is the most glaring one.

 

[Elbereth]

Read all the post by this retarded polish sperg. Now imagine that 75% of your classroom is like this. Now ask yourself, why the remaining 25% wants to leave.

I swear, polish people will live in your mind rent free for ever

 

[Givi]

That NATO was training the UAF to invade Donbas is the most glaring one.

What I actually said right afterwards:

I'm sure they were preparing for the strong possibility of a Russian invasion as well

I never claimed NATO was specifically training and arming the UAF to retake the separatist regions. I said that it was an inevitability that the conflict would flare up again and it wouldn't be a separatist offensive that did it, and when faced with the prospect of Ukraine giving Russia a bloody nose by removing its Ukrainian assets and connections, they would continue to provide support, covertly.

This just means you're selectively reading my posts, which will always lead to you willfully misunderstanding them, which lets me arrive at the conclusion that you're just here to sperg about Russia, and not really to understand and debate the conflict and the many things that lead up to it in a period of probably decades. That's fine by me but don't pretend you're here in good faith.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

For all the kvetching Russia does about western meddling in Ukraine they sure never seemed to be unwilling to engage in it.

Sure. Like Obama said, Ukraine is strategically important to Russia. It's not important to the United States.

>who has it better of Poland or Belarus?

Imagine bragging about living in Poland

 

[mr.moon1488]

That NATO was training the UAF to invade Donbas is the most glaring one.

You realize of course there is a video that's been posted a few times here of John McCain and Lindsey Graham openly encouraging Ukraine to pick a fight with Russia right?