General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[Retink]

You can't fix the kind of crazy she has and not gonna lie but the little larp is getting kind of gay.

Yea, I'm not really sure where I'm going with the plot arc, but it's a bit of a... fixation.

 

[thhrang]

not gonna lie but the little larp is getting kind of gay.

You think he's larping? I think he genuinely believes it at this point. Case in point:

Yea, I'm not really sure where I'm going with the plot arc, but it's a bit of a... fixation.

 

[EliteDoragon]

OP may be gone, but at least we have Elite OP

 

[kukkia]

So by that logic (in the video), isn't the term itself irrelevant?
The second link imo is just applicable to any entertainer. Any entertainer wants to get more fans, yet not all of them are viewed as idols.

Well, the word can be used for other entertainers too.

The word "idol" quite obviously doesn't come from Japan, The etymology goes back to Greek and the term had been expanded beyond the religious/spiritual meaning of "idol" to "popular celebrities" by the 20th century in the west. Like people called Frank Sinatra an "idol."

"Idol" was popularized in Japan by a French movie, Cherchez l'idole, in the 1960s. The film featured a young French-Bulgarian singer named Sylvie Vartan. Vartan, with her youthful appearance and energy, became very popular in Japan. Idol-like singers and units existed in Japan before Cherchez, but it was from this point on that the word "idol" would become entrenched.

In the west, "idol" mostly fell out of favor, but never completely. "American Idol" is a thing, after all. In Japan, it stuck, and ended up being mostly used to describe a specific entertainers and units, but that isn't to say that those entertainers are totally unique from their non-idol peers.

Spoiler: sperging about idol stuff

I think it is really strange that people draw this line between what Idols are in Japan and what we have seen in the West; like the way Idols are commercialized isn't something relatively normal here for many years. If you want to know what an Idol is, they are basically the Japanese equivalent of what Britney Spears and any number of boy-bands were back in the 90s and early 2000s. You might not remember but there was a time where people worshiped Britney (and a major part of her marketing was her virginity, something that Justin Timberlake joked about in an SNL skit). Going further, they are very much akin to how Hannah Montana and any of the Disney star/singers were marketed. We have this this 'pure, sweet, innocent' singer that 'lives for their fans' already in the West. The Japanese just perfected the market.

This is accurate. What makes an entertainer an "idol" is usually dependent on their production and marketing. The idol scene in Japan's origins are utterly commercial. This was not an underground genre that became big. Idols were promoted to be big from just about the beginning. In the 1970s a TV show called "Star Tanjō" began airing. This was a talent show, not that different from the aforementioned "American Idol" (though obviously predating it by many years). While people nowadays are generally dismissive of entertainers who make their names via talent shows, "Star Tanjõ" alumni would be the most popular female idols of the 70s and early 80s. The main exception would be the dominant idol of the era, Seiko Matsuda, as she came from a magazine competition instead of that tv show.

I mention this all to illustrate how from the beginning the idol scene was tied to commercial television and other mass media. Idols were produced following set templates of behavior and presentation and were marketed to be appealing to a mass audience. Being a singer is not inherently commercial. Being a Japanese "idol" is, or at least was until the rise of actual "underground idol" scenes in the 2000s.

Being an idol does not inherently mean being seiso or pure in the way most western vtuber fans think of those terms. One of the most iconic idol songs of the 80s is "Don't Make Me Take Off My Sailor Uniform" by Onyanko Club. The song shows how the sort of coy, youthful, teasing sexuality of idols was a thing established by then. The lyrics appeal to both a sense of innocence and virginity and of sexuality.

Oh, and the guy who wrote those lyrics? Yasushi Akimoto, who would go on to create AKB48 in the 2000s.

I'm definitely rambling here, but I guess my point is that idols are a bit of a "it's hard to define, but you know them when you see them" thing. Which is why "regular" Japanese singers, even ones popular in otaku sphere like LiSA or Aimer, aren't typically called idols. For me, an idol is an entertainer whose image is crafted and marketed in idol-like ways. Traditionally this involves an image of youth and innocence, that the idol is not just a distant, perfect celebrity who is above all the plebeians, but is an approachable person (AKB would become famous for being "idols you can meet") who is facing their challenges and growing personally and professionally. Fans are encouraged to become emotionally attached to idols in a way beyond "I like their music" or "I think they're hot." They are meant to become emotionally invested in the idols as characters. Rooting for a young idol from debut through all their big milestones to the height of their career creates a level of attachment and investment that I find more comparable to being a fan of a sports team.

Idols may go for an image beyond youthful innocence, obviously (though the youth part generally doesn't change much - while some idols remain popular as they age, they all start young). Akina Nakamori back in the 80s was already going for more risque lyrics and presentation, and in the 2010s we've seen groups like Babymetal and BiSH that lean into metal and punk respectively.

Personally, I think corporate vtubing - both Hololive and Nijisanji - have a lot in common with idols. As do the indies who take after them. Whether we call them idols or not is mostly beyond the point (I'd call Hololive members idols, because Cover does so). I'm fine just calling them vtubers, and saying that vtubing is very similar to the idol industry. I would also say that vtubing has been very successful at this, Hololive in particular, to the point where fans often do attach their own sense of self worth to the success of their oshi.

 

[paule]

Considering she had this yab earlier, I wouldn't peg her as someone who would false flag people.

View attachment 3278750

New Years Costume? I guess you should start better too soon rather than too late with this stuff.

You can't fix the kind of crazy she has and not gonna lie but the little larp is getting kind of gay.

Maybe it should be considered as thirstposting at this point to contain it. But I'm not going to tag 5t3n0g0ph3r

---

It's been a while since I heard Mumei singing but it's really nice when she does it seriously

 

[2DUM4U]

@kukkia (can't reply for some reason)

"Idol" was popularized in Japan by a French movie, Cherchez l'idole, in the 1960s. The film featured a young French-Bulgarian singer named Sylvie Vartan. Vartan, with her youthful appearance and energy, became very popular in Japan. Idol-like singers and units existed in Japan before Cherchez, but it was from this point on that the word "idol" would become entrenched.

Wonderfully interesting post .

It's always fascinating to learn how cultural currents trace back to their roots, often to cross-pollination with another culture. It's like how Kurosawa was influenced by Shakespeare, and then Kurosawa's work inspired iconic Westerns like Magnificent Seven and A Fistful of Dollars. I remember reading somewhere that the entire Magical Girlfriend genre in Japan was originally inspired by I Dream of Genie.

EDIT: But since it's veering off topic somewhat, how about a nice juicy clip?

 

[Takodachi]

Tomorrow, we dine in hell

 

[Scuttle]

I'm not strong enough for idol talk first thing in the morning.

Have a funee clip instead.

 

[Rhialtokourai]

Oh god, he animated it

I love her disappointment that the trolley derailed.

Eikaiwa starting

Mel: Go to the bed, okay? Let's play. Oh, oh my gah... big...
Calli: AAAAAAAAA-
Mel: promotion
Calli: -AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Mel: Calli? You are good?

...What did everyone learn today?

You know I've never listened to Mumei karaoke before, so tonight seems like a good time to start. ~10 minutes until unarchived endurance stream starts.

It will never happen, but now I want a HoloEN cover of Omigod You Guys.

---

More endurance karaoke in 20 minutes, this time from the steel-throated coyote.

 

[msd]

Yuni is Pippa without the edge and retardation.
Yuni is a more honest and more down to earth version of Pippa, which is weird, because you'd think she'd act like a complete menace without any tard wranglers.
View attachment 3279620

I unfortunately know this feeling.

Wish you the best yuni, truly, if you're reading this thread somehow, I wish you the best.

 

[Alchemyth]

Alot of cool information being shared on idols, their history and spread of it's culture by educated and cultured people. And then there's me: just a monkey who's neurons activate on seeing anime girls sing while making friends along the way.

There's nothing worth shilling right now, so take my favorite Azki song.

Spoiler

And it just so happened to be used in my favorite promo

 

[Diya]

Alot of cool information being shared on idols, their history and spread of it's culture by educated and cultured people. And then there's me: just a monkey who's neurons activate on seeing anime girls sing while making friends along the way.

There's nothing worth shilling right now, so take my favorite Azki song.

Spoiler

And it just so happened to be used in my favorite promo

I'll say that's the best way to enjoy it. At the end of the day, they're cute anime girls doing cute/cool/amazing things not a book club. It's nice to have a place to sperg out once in a while though.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

 

[field rice mouse]

Gamble from syudou is this week's cover song from MaiR, 8PM JST.

Interesting enough, Suisei prefer to call herself an idol, but is also an antithesis of that statement. She perform for herself first and foremost, and fans are secondary. Not really shy about it either, she mention it multiple time how everything she do is for herself. Her newest song, Template, is about this exact theme too.

Spoiler: selected lyric quote on the subject

I tried to block it out again and again, yet the annoying noise still roars.
You can disparage me all you want and trap me in your little boxes but I'm still the only one who can put a name on this voice, right? (...)
That's right, I don't care what's "correct" for me I'll decide for myself if this life is right or wrong.
The radiance of that gigantic star .That utopia of endless happiness.
I don't care if I never reach any of those. I don't need anything else but I.

Also this old clip, where she reject the notion that an Idol need to be "clean"

So for her, Idol is less of a mindset or code of conduct, and more of the theme surrounding it I think.

For Suisei it feels she has an ideal of what she perceives as an idol, I recall her voice being one of them since she had to be warned by her doctor to stop using her "idol voice" to prevent permanent damage.

That clip also makes me miss my oshi Yaezawa Natori so much. Sure she reincarnated but I can't forget watching her streams and reactions as well as her mad dash to complete FF8 in the last week of her idolbu contract while squeezing multiple collabs both inside and outside .LIVE. Might update this post later with more but this link is why I had to close 99% of Vtuber streams everytime I hear the opening notes for Fansa since she that's the song she used to close her career as Natori in her very emotional graduation stream.

https://streamable.com/r3p82s

---

More endurance karaoke in 20 minutes, this time from the steel-throated coyote.

Listening to her singing M from Ayumi Hamasaki makes me feel really old.

EDIT:
Adding what will most likely be Cocone's last cover MV before retiring.

 

[Avokado]

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

 

[moon delightful]

Sorry if this is already posted but I saw this in my recommendations.

 

[moments fade pain remains]

Why are people here so interested on fixing Pippa? What did she do to you that you want to take her out mafia style?

 

[Tatsunoko]

I guess that solves something I was wondering for a while. Which was do they call each other by their real name off-stream/in real life or do they use their Hololive name. If they use their real names like the video implies, I'm honestly surprised there haven't been any slip-ups outside of Gura calling Amelia Rebecca/Becca that one time. Which wasn't even really a slip-up and more of a joke.

 

[PassiveUnaggressive]

Sorry if this is already posted but I saw this in my recommendations.

I forget sometimes sites have tracking of where traffic comes from.... Her channel is small enough that her cover likely had a significant increase in views from here.

Someone probably should tell her and her endearing levels of English what sort of place this is, gently, preferably in fluent JP so she understands. No need to scare her, but I'd hate for her to start browsing here then see something traumatizing, or have some sort of association negatively affect her or her relationship with her fans.