Fallout series

On the topic of ammo in Fallout 4, isn't really stupid how 5.56 was the most common rifle round in 3 and New Vegas, but yet you only find small handfuls of it in Fallout 4?

Guess that's what happens when you decide to put emphasis on PIPE GUNS PIPE GUNS PIPE GUNS instead of a well rounded arsenal.
See, I was glad to see pipe guns initially, because I've always found it weird they didn't have much in the way of improvised weapons in 3 and NV. Logically they would be in use to some extent, especially among tribals and poorer settlements.

Then we got the implementation....
 
See, I was glad to see pipe guns initially, because I've always found it weird they didn't have much in the way of improvised weapons in 3 and NV. Logically they would be in use to some extent, especially among tribals and poorer settlements.

Then we got the implementation....
If Pipe Weapons actually had more variety, it would've been a neat concept and made the early game feel a bit better in the weapons department. One scrapped weapon from concept art was the Crude Blowback, a blowback operated submachine gun that would overheat if you fired it too often. Guess Bethesda got too lazy to implement an overheating mechanic because that would've been a neat weapon. Gives me a lot of Bastard Gun vibes from Metro 2033.

1653102984324.png


Thankfully it got recreated as a mod.

I'm at least glad one of the strengths Nuka-World gave us was the Handmade Rifle, that's what Pipe Weapons should've been in the vanilla game. I'm still trying to figure out why Bethesda decided to use .38 as a low level bullet instead of 9mm.
 
About the institute and the synths replacing slaves idea, it's really good. And since this thread is usually New Vegas, and not 4, a couple of wires got crossed and I started to think about it from the Legions perspective. Synths would be a strange version of anti-leninist technology to them. Without human slavery and subjugation as the gateway into a new society what's the fucking point? (people could work their way upwards from being a slave, right?)
 
I'm still trying to figure out why Bethesda decided to use .38 as a low level bullet instead of 9mm.
That is definitely a good case of narrative decision: .38 has a lower ballistic performance than 9mm, and is principally used with snub-nosed revolvers in our world. Pipe guns replaced snub-noses as the wimpy starting gun, and it makes some sense to have them use the same ammo: most police pistols were .38 revolvers in the 50's and 60's and it was also popular with criminals and for carry by those that could get the license due to its small size, so that would mean a shitton of .38 special ammo out there to use; the fact that it was weaker than some other calibers definitely made it more palatable for use in pipe weapons that are not made with the same durability as a properly manufactured gun.
9 still exists, it's more Bethesda being lazy and not knowing jack shit about guns.
Fallout has used the 10mm since Day 1, since a lot of people in the 90's thought that it was going to become the main pistol caliber of the future, and it quickly became ingrained into the franchise's character. The only 9mm in the original 2 games were antique Mausers, and NV deciding to make the BHP the starting pistol is honestly them deciding that they wanted a gun in the game rather than any sort of narrative reason for it. Again, Chris Avellone and Josh Sawyer are not gods, and Obsidian made plenty of retcons and bugs of their own.
 
About the institute and the synths replacing slaves idea, it's really good. And since this thread is usually New Vegas, and not 4, a couple of wires got crossed and I started to think about it from the Legions perspective. Synths would be a strange version of anti-leninist technology to them. Without human slavery and subjugation as the gateway into a new society what's the fucking point? (people could work their way upwards from being a slave, right?)

Being a slave in the Legion is a permanent thing, they are meant to be seen as unworthy profligates meant to maintain the Legion's settlements with no hope for freedom.
 
I still cant find a good explanation for a female courier to support the Legion. Unless they are doing a zero intelligence run and she thinks they will let her wear the cool looking clothes. Or maybe a modern woman run that thinks she can fix them.

Mayor Mcdonough might have been replaced as by a Synth at some point but his entire electoral platform was anti ghoul. Mayor Mcdonough didn't become mayor and then was replaced, he specifically campaigned on being against ghouls, was elected, and followed through on that platform by throwing out the ghouls. If he was a Synth plant at that point or not, being anti ghoul was popular enough in Diamond City to win you the election.

Im just saying that it was very easy to turn the population against ghouls because they are an easy target. The institute knew this so thats why they replaced him and sent him into politics to gain control of Diamond City through proxy.

I know we judge The Institute a lot but replacing political figures to achieve proxy control of a community is pretty fucking genius in an evil way. It almost makes them seem better than what we actually get in the game.
What's funnier is that most of the "moral" companions that you get in Diamond City (Piper and Nick Valentine) really don't care that the majority of their fellow residents threw the ghouls out. As far as I can tell, Piper cares more about the conspiracy of Mayor Mcdonough being a Synth and uses the ghoul ban as proof that he is a Synth (this is found on her terminal and I couldn't find other references) and Valentine really doesn't mention it either. So 2 of the more "good" companions from a karma standpoint really don't care about the ghouls either.

In Nick's case, he is mostly glad that the people havent gotten paranoid enough to throw HIM out too, despite not hiding anything about what he is like a Gen 3 could. Paranoid and scared people do stupid things, create enemies out of allies so he doesnt want to push his luck. Maybe its a bit selfish of his but I would do the same. You cant force people to change, they gotta change on their own terms. Maybe he is just bidding his time until the next mayor comes and is possible more accepting of non humans.

And Piper is a journalist, you expect her to put DO something instead of just bitching about it?
About the institute and the synths replacing slaves idea, it's really good. And since this thread is usually New Vegas, and not 4, a couple of wires got crossed and I started to think about it from the Legions perspective. Synths would be a strange version of anti-leninist technology to them. Without human slavery and subjugation as the gateway into a new society what's the fucking point? (people could work their way upwards from being a slave, right?)

Not in the Legion. You are stuck in that position until you either die or somehow get free.
 
Being a slave in the Legion is a permanent thing, they are meant to be seen as unworthy profligates meant to maintain the Legion's settlements with no hope for freedom.
What about their children? I only played the game at release so I remember them as a fire spreading, burnt areas were under their control and different from their edge of expansion(the fire, so to say).
 
I still cant find a good explanation for a female courier to support the Legion. Unless they are doing a zero intelligence run and she thinks they will let her wear the cool looking clothes. Or maybe a modern woman run that thinks she can fix them.
Doesn't help that the Legion has an unfortunate tendency to backstab all of their allies once they've "pacified" an area. That's one of my problems with the Legion in general, all of their supposed "good" parts are told by a guy with a god complex that orders the butchering of communities for the most petty shit (really, was there any strategic value in slaughtering New Canan outside of getting back at Joshua Graham?), while all of their fucked up parts are front & center.

Besides, are "safe trade routes" really that extraordinary when the NCR more or less has that back in California anyway?
 
Doesn't help that the Legion has an unfortunate tendency to backstab all of their allies once they've "pacified" an area. That's one of my problems with the Legion in general, all of their supposed "good" parts are told by a guy with a god complex that orders the butchering of communities for the most petty shit (really, was there any strategic value in slaughtering New Canan outside of getting back at Joshua Graham?), while all of their fucked up parts are front & center.

Besides, are "safe trade routes" really that extraordinary when the NCR more or less has that back in California anyway?

"lol, cringe, you redditor, dont you know that NCR bad, legion good? Lol! Go back to reddit!"
 
I still cant find a good explanation for a female courier to support the Legion. Unless they are doing a zero intelligence run and she thinks they will let her wear the cool looking clothes. Or maybe a modern woman run that thinks she can fix them.
Power pretty much in my eyes. Even in societies that women were significantly inferior to me, including ancient Rome, a handful of truly powerful and talented ones tend to appear. You could roleplay as one wanting to be the bride of ceaser, or a Wasteland Cleopatra. Plus even in game, ceaser has shown himself willing to make use of people and tech that doesn't really fit with the legions stated ideals. Really we got jewed by obsidian fleshing out the legion less than the other factions, they had the most cut content, including legion towns and significantly more to do at the fort.
 
"lol, cringe, you redditor, dont you know that NCR bad, legion good? Lol! Go back to reddit!"
I don't think the NCR's perfect by any means, but I think they've got the best chance in the long term.

The Legion is the Legion, who knows what'll happen when the big guy croaks and some of his underlings start weighing the odds against each other. Mr. House is only one man (albeit a brilliant man), and I don't want to know what happens if something pops in his head (stroke or dementia, both would suck ass) or a power failure shuts off his life support. Putting aside the shear ego of a glorified mail man thinking he can run all of southern Nevada, Yes Man is going to leave a divided land (in neutral terms at best, what if the Boomers or Brotherhood start pulling some "funny" shit) sandwiched between two nations that still want to kill each other.

If they get that famine issue nipped in the bud (provided that they use the Vault 22 data correctly), I think the NCR will be relatively ok.
 
Last edited:
Power pretty much in my eyes. Even in societies that women were significantly inferior to me, including ancient Rome, a handful of truly powerful and talented ones tend to appear. You could roleplay as one wanting to be the bride of ceaser, or a Wasteland Cleopatra. Plus even in game, ceaser has shown himself willing to make use of people and tech that doesn't really fit with the legions stated ideals. Really we got jewed by obsidian fleshing out the legion less than the other factions, they had the most cut content, including legion towns and significantly more to do at the fort.

If we see what happens in the ending, Caesar needed a symbol and saw the female courier as a driving force of pure will and detirmination like a living goddess of victory that he can use to keep the population docile. Lanius saw you as an equally frightening force of will alone and knew he couldn't best you without losing what he had earned, he will not be like the Malpais Legate, letting fanaticism and hubris consume him

I still cant find a good explanation for a female courier to support the Legion. Unless they are doing a zero intelligence run and she thinks they will let her wear the cool looking clothes. Or maybe a modern woman run that thinks she can fix them.

Couriers with High Int likely came from places like Vault City where there really wasn't a strong democratic tradition and some of the practices were similar to what they saw in VC. The place had slaves, forbade intoxicating substances yet unfortunately was one of the few places of social stability. A good Courier would believe spreading a more easily accessible version of said city is better than the flawed settlements. The Legion has pacified their unruly elements, the other groups have failed to and it's easy to convince themselves the moral decision is to support the group that has their internal problems under control.
 
If we see what happens in the ending, Caesar needed a symbol and saw the female courier as a driving force of pure will and detirmination like a living goddess of victory that he can use to keep the population docile. Lanius saw you as an equally frightening force of will alone and knew he couldn't best you without losing what he had earned, he will not be like the Malpais Legate, letting fanaticism and hubris consume him



Couriers with High Int likely came from places like Vault City where there really wasn't a strong democratic tradition and some of the practices were similar to what they saw in VC. The place had slaves, forbade intoxicating substances yet unfortunately was one of the few places of social stability. A good Courier would believe spreading a more easily accessible version of said city is better than the flawed settlements. The Legion has pacified their unruly elements, the other groups have failed to and it's easy to convince themselves the moral decision is to support the group that has their internal problems under control.
I could argue that High-INT couriers could come from all sorts of places in the NCR, simply because it's made clear that the Core Territories have obtained an industrial capacity at least on par with the Gilded Age by the time of NV. They could have been educated in Shady and moved eastward for adventure, be former Brotherhood with the technological education that entails, or just have been raised with a good access to knowledge. With that, they could go any way: NCR Couriers were raised there and see its industrial development and stable society as a boon for the Mojave, House Couriers are technocrats who believe that they and Robert are smart enough to lead the way to the Mojave's success through their two-man Industrial Revolution, Independents were your stereotypical college-educated anarchist who is convinced that history proves states are just too useless to keep around, and Legion couriers see the brutality of a post-apocalyptic state as necessary to provide the pathway for civilization (though I consider this a bit of a stretch since an intelligent Courier should also be able to see the massive holes in Sallow's ideology and government structure). Of course, there's also plenty of reasons for a moron to support every faction: Maybe they're patriotic buffoons following their government without consideration of its flaws, easily swayed by the egghead saying big words, destructive dipshits who just want to cause chaos, or primitive tribals who are easily fooled by a pseudo-intellectual posing as a god-king. Because at the end of the day, there are smart people and stupid people that follow every ideology, as the lolcow threads prove with gusto.
 
Last edited:
Doesn't help that the Legion has an unfortunate tendency to backstab all of their allies once they've "pacified" an area. That's one of my problems with the Legion in general, all of their supposed "good" parts are told by a guy with a god complex that orders the butchering of communities for the most petty shit (really, was there any strategic value in slaughtering New Canan outside of getting back at Joshua Graham?), while all of their fucked up parts are front & center.

Besides, are "safe trade routes" really that extraordinary when the NCR more or less has that back in California anyway?
Trade routes. There was slowly growing trade between New Canaan and the NCR as the Crimson Caravan's competitors were driven to the fringes, and best to wipe them out before the NCR proper can expand that way. As New Canaan is on the northern edge of Legion territory, that would result in a slow but steady encirclement, especially if the NCR can pacify or remove the local tribes before Caesar can make use of them. That, and the last thing Caesar would have wanted to deal with is Graham rallying New Canaan and their associated tribes against him. The tactical smarts of the Malpais Legate, backed with all the fervor and fanaticism of holy crusaders, and a literal religious love of the gun thanks to one John Moses Browning. Well-armed, fanatical, and led by a driven man... Caesar's worst fucking nightmare.
 
Really goes to show that the original formula to Fallout was showing society rebuilding and shaping into a civilization itself and putting the apocalypse as far as possible behind them. Bethesda just wants wholesome gay quirky wasteland where everyone is gay and living in a rusty shack with 3 skeletons and a deathclaw nest in their backyard.
Yeah I don't like that aspect of Fallout 4. They advertised the settlements but you can't actually clean them up to make them look like people are living there, and unless you have reached a certain level, you can't share the resources with other settlements, despite having to rescue them and build more defenses every 15 min.
 
Yeah I don't like that aspect of Fallout 4. They advertised the settlements but you can't actually clean them up to make them look like people are living there, and unless you have reached a certain level, you can't share the resources with other settlements, despite having to rescue them and build more defenses every 15 min.
Not to mention some have visible skeletons you cannot even scrap or remove unless you get mods.

Plus the settlement system felt underbaked, as it was easy to get overwhelmed by demands or the ridiculously high cost of crafting some objects. Don't even get me started on how you need to have 6 charisma minimum and 2 levels of a perk just to build a fucking workbench.
 
Back