War Don’t believe those who say ending Roe v Wade will leave society largely intact - The Guardian reeeeally needs a Xanax prescription (and so does Android Raptor)

Archive

Now that the dust has begun to settle after the inital explosive news that the US supreme court is poised to overrule the right to abortion and that Justice Samuel Alito’s draft opinion in Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health Organization represents what a majority of the court initially voted to do, among the most revealing ways to understand the devastation the court appears ready to wreak on America’s long march toward “liberty and justice for all” is to examine the kinds of arguments being made in the opinion’s defense.

The argument that such a ruling would simply return a divisive issue to the people had long since been widely dismantled. It certainly wouldn’t be returned to the people most profoundly affected once women were told they may have to remain pregnant despite whatever urgent reasons they might have for seeking a safe and legal abortion. It couldn’t be described as returning the abortion issue to the states, now that the possibility of a nationwide ban that the supreme court might uphold is on the horizon. And to the extent the issue is returned to the states, it would be returned to state legislatures so gerrymandered that they often represent the views of a distinct minority of the people anyway.

The argument that “only” abortion is involved because Alito’s draft assures readers that the supreme court’s opinion won’t be treated as precedent for anything that doesn’t involve killing an unborn human is both profoundly insulting and manifestly misleading. It insults every sentient person by minimizing the significance of commandeering the bodies and lives of half the population – and re-inserting government power into every family. And it misleads every reader of Alito’s words by suggesting that a court has the power to shape how future lawmakers and judges will build on its decisions and the reasoning underlying them. Alito’s hollow promise brings to mind similar assurances in notorious cases like Bush v Gore, is inconsistent with how the judicial process works, and wouldn’t offer any solace to anyone who might become pregnant or whose miscarriage might be treated as a crime scene for police to investigate.

The foolishness of the argument that there’s nothing to see here other than the future of abortion law is underscored by some of what is said in its support. We’re told not to worry about the future of decisions like Loving v Virginia, ensuring the right to marry someone of a different race than your own because, after all, Justice Clarence Thomas is in an interracial marriage. We’re told not to worry about the right to same-sex marriage because, after all, Justice Brett Kavanaugh would never vote to overturn Obergefell v Hodges, the most iconic opinion written by his proud mentor, Anthony Kennedy – the man who left the court only after he had hand-picked Kavanaugh as his successor. We’re told not to worry about contraception (despite the way quite a few people view Plan B or IUDs as forms of abortion) because even supreme court nominees like Amy Coney Barrett, who were cagey about just how “settled” a precedent they deemed Roe v Wade, said they couldn’t imagine anybody today challenging Griswold v Connecticut. All that prognostication is cold comfort to the millions of people whose lives are profoundly affected by these shaky predictions.

The most substantial argument is one that is equally fallacious but more sophisticated and in some ways more devious and dangerous: it is the argument that supreme court reversals of precedent, like the reversal of Plessy v Ferguson by Brown v Board of Education, are often to be welcomed as needed course corrections, and that this “course correction” wouldn’t be the first time the supreme court has rolled back decades-old constitutional rights. The many commentators who persisted in describing Alito’s draft in those terms – as an unprecedented retreat in the arc of ever-expanding rights – have recently been denounced as either inexcusably ignorant or deliberately duplicitous by distinguished scholars like Yale’s Akhil Amar, who says that every first-year law student learns that the very same thing happened during FDR’s second term as president, when the supreme court in 1937 in West Coast Hotel v Parrish overturned a long line of decisions that had blocked minimum wage and maximum hours and other worker-protection laws in the name of employers’ rights of “private property” and the “liberty of contract”. To be sure, Amar’s argument echoes that of the Alito draft, which cites Parrish and says, in effect, “nothing to see here, we did the same thing before” when we rolled back the liberty of contract line of decisions in 1937.

Justice Alito and Professor Amar are simply wrong: profoundly so. That so-called (and quite misleadingly labeled) “switch in time that saved the nine” was nothing like the switch that Dobbs would represent. The 1937 “switch” was no sudden politically driven turnabout but was in fact the culmination of long-simmering movements in legal and economic thought – movements that were reflected both in scholarship and in judicial opinions from the earliest days of the 20th century in places like Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes’ dissent in Lochner v New York insisting that “the 14th amendment does not enact Mr Herbert Spencer’s social statics,” movements that represented the growing conviction that the “freedom” to work at low wages and in miserable conditions was an illusion lacking both moral and legal foundations and one that simply helped perpetuate economic inequality and the exploitation of relatively powerless, not-yet-unionized workers by wealthy and powerful corporations.

Indeed, it is noteworthy that West Coast Hotel v Parrishthe 29 March 1937 decision that is usually marked as the pivot point in the great constitutional upheaval – was handed down by precisely the same set of nine justices as the nine who had rendered a decision pointing in the opposite direction less than a year earlier, on 1 June 1936, in Morehead v New York ex rel Tipaldo. One justice of the nine, a moderate Republican named Owen J Roberts, who had been rethinking his position on the underlying legal theories, had foreshadowed his shifting views by writing a landmark opinion upholding milk price regulation, Nebbia v New York, by a 5-4 vote in 1934 – less than two months after the court had upheld a state mortgage moratorium law by a 5-4 vote in Home Building & Loan Ass’n v Blaisdell, a decision clearly foreshadowing the 1937 repudiation of Lochner’s legacy by reconceiving the meaning of the constitution’s clause forbidding all state impairments of the obligation of contracts.

That history is important to keep in mind if one is to understand the depth of the error made by those who seek to compare the 2022 tsunami that Dobbs would represent with the gradual shift in current represented by the 1937 movement away from liberty of contract to protection of workers and consumers. The head-spinning and altogether untimely switch in the supreme court’s abortion jurisprudence that Dobbs would represent – if the decision the court announces late this June or early July is in substance what the leaked Alito draft indicated it would be – will reflect not the steady maturation of a long-developing jurisprudential movement but the crude payoff to a partisan political program to take over the federal judiciary, one beginning with Ronald Reagan’s presidency and the rise of the Federalist Society, and advancing with supreme court appointments made by Republican presidents all of whom lost the popular vote (George W Bush, appointing Justice Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts; Donald J Trump, appointing Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett), and made in circumstances of dubious legitimacy.

Professor Amar treats as laughably naïve the observation by ACLU national legal director and Georgetown law professor David Cole that, although “Parrish took away some rights of business owners … its real effect was to expand rights protections for millions of Americans subject to exploitation by powerful corporations.” Amar’s rebuttal? He says, and I’m serious here, that it’d be equally legitimate to say that “Dobbs’ real effect would be to expand rights protection for millions of innocent, unborn Americans … unborn humans, subject to extermination by society.”
It’s hard to know where to begin in unraveling that alleged parallel. Suffice it to note that the status as rights-bearing persons of embryos and fetuses remains a matter of profound sectarian controversy in America and throughout the world while no such controversy attends the status as rights-bearing persons of the array of workers whose rights, at least under laws designed to limit economic exploitation if not directly under the constitution itself, were indisputably expanded by virtue of the Parrish decision and the overturning of the Lochner line of cases.

Perhaps no less important is the indisputable fact that, although there remain a few commentators who continue to think that Lochner was rightly decided and Parrish was wrong, there is a nearly universal consensus, certainly covering the ideological spectrum on the current supreme court, that the “rights” protected by Lochner and the other decisions that Parrish tossed into the dustbin of history were not constitutionally sacrosanct, and that inequalities of bargaining power prevented the common-law baseline that Lochner treated as immune to legislative modification from having any special constitutional status. At the same time, the notions of personal autonomy and bodily integrity that provide the constitutional foundation for the substantive “liberty” at stake in cases like Roe and Casey are almost universally accepted as real, although deep disagreements remain about whether, to what degree, and from what point in fetal development the protection of the unborn fetus can properly trump that liberty.

The upshot is that the radical change in law and society that Dobbs would represent truly has no parallel in the history of the supreme court or in the history of the United States. As David Cole writes, the “proper analogy is not Brown overruling Plessy, but a decision reviving Plessy, reversing Brown, and relegating Black people to enforced segregation after nearly 70 years of equal protection.” For, as Jamelle Bouie rightly observed, “equal standing is undermined and eroded when the state can effectively seize your person for its own ends – that is, when it can force you to give birth.” Whether or not one compares that compulsion and forced labor to literal enslavement, as I did in my 1973 article on Roe v Wade, attempts to minimize the huge retrogression this would represent must be dismissed as little more than shameful efforts to camouflage the carnage the supreme court of the United States is about to unleash both on its own legitimacy and, even more important, on the people in whose name it wields the power of judicial review.
  • Laurence H Tribe is the Carl M Loeb University Professor of Constitutional Law Emeritus at Harvard University, the author of numerous books and articles, a distinguished supreme court advocate, and holder of 11 honorary degrees

Literally half this article has nothing to do with Dobbs or Roe.

"If the law's on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If neither are on your side, throw an autistic shitfit".
 
Then holy fuck, use some goddamn protection then if you are at this level. Condoms, pills, pull out and swallow for all i can care is cheap.
Homie have you not seen the many times I've talked about being a lesbian with an IUD

Btw I think it was something like half of all abortions are due to birth control failure. Shit is better than nothing buy its not 100% (also Bible belt states don't allow kids to be taught how to use it).
"If you don't let us kill babies, then we'll kill babies! Or maybe we'll kill ourselves while we're killing the babies!"

...why would someone think anyone should care about the lives of those who would kill their own offspring?
More like let me abort an embryo so I don't have to put a wet wash cloth over the face of a newborn and tell everyone it died from SIDS (which fun fact, as long as you don't apply any pressure is indistinguishable from suffocation on autopsy)

If someone would kill their offspring why they fuck should they be forced to have kids?
 
To work a summer job you need a ride. My parents would bitch and moan for hours if they had to drive their kids to a doctor appointment, like hell were they gonna drive them to a job multiple days a week.

Would 15 year old me really be someone you'd trust with your kids?
Ok, this is getting ridiculous, lol.

Maybe, and I’m just throwing this out here Android, that your life is not the same as most people and things like “a teen job” or “taking a bus” are not alien ideas, but countless teen niggas ride the bus to shit like subway or Starbucks or Food Lion on the daily because they can go outside.

Even if you grew up in the most small towns ever, there is still some sort of work or income that could be done, and if that ain’t the case and you are in a Eskimo village a million miles away? Maybe, just maybe, don’t get pregnant by the one out of three dudes in your shithole retarded fishing hole, lol.
 
Then holy fuck, use some goddamn protection then if you are at this level. Condoms, pills, pull out and swallow for all i can care is cheap.
Android raptor is a bipolar mid 40's childless dyke that has never been touched by a dude before. She has zero chance of ever being pregnant. She seems to just like the idea of killing children, because - like all childless dykes - she's insane.

She's not going to ever agree that even the most basic precaution is reasonable, because she just likes the idea of killing kids.
 
Homie have you not seen the many times I've talked about being a lesbian with an IUD
Nice.
Btw I think it was something like half of all abortions are due to birth control failure. Shit is better than nothing buy its not 100% (also Bible belt states don't allow kids to be taught how to use it).
Due to people being retarded and not using it properly. But that's a user error problem that can be easily fixed by reading the damn instructions. It's just that at a certain level it feels like every excuse becomes "i don't wanna use that, i just wanna vaccumm my baby out"
 
Ok, this is getting ridiculous, lol.

Maybe, and I’m just throwing this out here Android, that your life is not the same as most people and things like “a teen job” or “taking a bus” are not alien ideas, but countless teen niggas ride the bus to shit like subway or Starbucks or Food Lion on the daily because they can go outside.

Even if you grew up in the most small towns ever, there is still some sort of work or income that could be done, and if that ain’t the case and you are in a Eskimo village a million miles away? Maybe, just maybe, don’t get pregnant by the one out of three dudes in your shithole retarded fishing hole, lol.
Ride the bus? Nigga there is no public transit outside the most downtown urban areas in the Bible belt. I haven't lived within walking distance of a bus stop until the past 5 or so years. The south hates public transit almost as much as it hates women and minorities.
Android raptor is a bipolar mid 40's childless dyke that has never been touched by a dude before. She has zero chance of ever being pregnant. She seems to just like the idea of killing children, because - like all childless dykes - she's insane.

She's not going to ever agree that even the most basic precaution is reasonable, because she just likes the idea of killing kids.
Only the childless dyke and insane parts of that is accurate
Nice.

Due to people being retarded and not using it properly. But that's a user error problem that can be easily fixed by reading the damn instructions. It's just that at a certain level it feels like every excuse becomes "i don't wanna use that, i just wanna vaccumm my baby out"
Nigger no actual woman wants to vacuum a baby out. Nor do they want to take a pill to yeet an embryo. Anyone that talks about getting abortions for funsies is either lying or a troon with a fetish, or both.

Women and girls get abortions because as unpleasant as they might be, it's still better than ripping your taint open giving birth to a kid you can't afford (or dying in the process of that).
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Syaoran Li
Ride the bus? Nigga there is no public transit outside the most downtown urban areas in the Bible belt. I haven't lived within walking distance of a bus stop until the past 5 or so years. The south hates public transit almost as much as it hates women and minorities.

Only the childless dyke and insane parts of that is accurate
You're not mid 40's? Wild, for some reason I thought you were. I think maybe because my mental picture of you is nannete.
 
Ride the bus? Nigga there is no public transit outside the most downtown urban areas in the Bible belt. I haven't lived within walking distance of a bus stop until the past 5 or so years. The south hates public transit almost as much as it hates women and minorities.
>So rural no bus, but not working at the nearby ranch for money to buy a beat up pickup for $150.

Hmmm…
 
It says a lot about our society that these people think the only thing holding it together is accessibility to abortions.
hierarchy of sneeds.png

updated this for modern times
 
No seriously I know feminists count a lot of lawyers amongst their ranks, come on, advance a solid case regarding right to terminate, I believe in you, you can do it

You've proven your legal clout before, don't disappoint me now, put the rubber to the road

(Unless of course this whole thing is actually beneficial to your usual threat-narrative scaremongering fear-vote-gathering MO like I suspect, and you intend to shit yourselves and do nothing because it's gotten you so much money and asspats in the past just shrieking and wearing pussyhats)
 
You're not mid 40's? Wild, for some reason I thought you were. I think maybe because my mental picture of you is nannete.
Nope, not yet anyway
>So rural no bus, but not working at the nearby ranch for money to buy a beat up pickup for $150.

Hmmm…
Lmao there wasn't a ranch either, nothing but cheaply built off white ugly houses for miles where I lived at 15. It was a shithole and if the place gets hit by a tornado I can't say I'll shed any tears.
 
It'll be a society with a whole lot more dead women and girls and an equal (or higher) number of dead fetuses.

More dead babies too probably, both from the old fashioned wet-cloth-to-the-face-of-a-newborn method of dealing with unwanted pregnancies, and from shit like shaken baby syndrome and other ways people who should have never had kids tend to kill them (or get them taken away by CPS at least).
If you want to be THAT economical about killing babies, consider this, YOU won't be forced to pay for the killings anymore, the 'birthing person' will have to cash it in on their own.
 
Oh hey look raptor is masturbating to the idea of being raped and forced to be impregnated again under the guise of outrage. Get a new kink breeder.
That's not actually one of my kinks. It's why as big of a fujo as I am, I've never been much for mpreg or ABO shit
That’s called suburbia, if you not could get a job or bike there, I don’t know what to tell you.
My bike got stolen from the garage by some kids when I was 13 because I forgot to close the door. My mom yelled at me for it and that was the end of that.
 
More like let me abort an embryo so I don't have to put a wet wash cloth over the face of a newborn and tell everyone it died from SIDS (which fun fact, as long as you don't apply any pressure is indistinguishable from suffocation on autopsy)

JFC, literally the only word I can come up with for this mentality is "evil." Maybe "egocentric" in second.

It's fascinating to me that I, as a gay man, have more maternal instinct than whatever the fuck you are.
 
JFC, literally the only word I can come up with for this mentality is "evil." Maybe "egocentric" in second.

It's fascinating to me that I, as a gay man, have more maternal instinct than whatever the fuck you are.
Some women just aren't meant to be mothers, though often times historical infanticide was more a survival instinct than anything else. If you know you don't have the resources to care for a kid and the other option is a more prolonged death from dehydration/starvation (what ultimately happened to a lot of newborns that were simply abandoned), you might suck it up and put a rag over it's face to at least get it over with quickly as well.

Seriously up until the later part of the industrial revolution, infanticide was common AF and happened everywhere. Personally I'll take tiny, unfeeling, unaware embryos being flushed down the toilet over that, as funny as dead babies are.
The only way we wahmnens will not be oppressed by the penis is if we can get abortions via Doordash ♡
Misoprostil being available in the US otc like it is in Mexico would be unironically based and is the future I want.
 
Back