May 3, 2022 - Chris returned to CVRJ

[A-№1]

I'm pretty sure we went a few rounds of disagreeing heavily with each other.

I wouldn't call it that.

I'm not sure what you're asking for, sorry?

My position is that had Chris taken a plea deal at his first hearing in November, he'd be out of jail today and bunged into a tard home (if Heilberg has his way) somewhere far away from Greene County (if Consolvo has his way).

Your position was, "no," (or at least I'm assuming that's what you were disagreeing to - you haven't exactly been clear). So I'm asking you to justify that. What is your reasoning behind the belief that Chris would still be in jail today no matter what? (Assuming again that that is your belief.)

If your arguments hold water, and make more sense, I'll change my mind. If not, I'll point out their fallacies. But you have to actually state them.

The point of these forums is to observe, comment on, and debate the behavior of lolcows, not to have pointless internet fights.

 

[Got Milk!]

My position is that had Chris taken a plea deal at his first hearing in November, he'd be out of jail today and bunged into a tard home (if Heilberg has his way) somewhere far away from Greene County (if Consolvo has his way).

Your position was, "no," (or at least I'm assuming that's what you were disagreeing to - you haven't exactly been clear). So I'm asking you to justify that. What is your reasoning behind the belief that Chris would still be in jail today no matter what? (Assuming again that that is your belief.)

If your arguments hold water, and make more sense, I'll change my mind. If not, I'll point out their fallacies. But you have to actually state them.

The point of these forums is to observe, comment on, and debate the behavior of lolcows, not to have pointless internet fights.

My point was that you said Chris was basically keeping himself there by not accepting a plea deal but we have no evidence he was offered one. The NOOOOOvember August appearance was the one where he sperged out and demanded to see his toys in return for cooperation with the court proceedings, right? If so, would you offer that person any sort of anything when you can clearly see they have a very small grasp on reality and are demanding to return to the crime scene for toys... at age 39. I agree with you that generally people are offered them and he has been in the past. Macing a gamestop employee and man-macing Barb are two very very different things. At this point he is someone with a record and was in for immediately violating his TRO for fucking his mom. I would guess you don't get high priority or consideration to make a deal with you at that point. Especially if it's one that would allow for immediate or quick release from jail and your only residence is with your victim.

Also, there is the fact Chris hasn't mentioned (that I am aware of) anything regarding a plea deal or even an offer. I would kind of figure if one were offered, even a version where he doesn't get immediate release, he would have mentioned it one way or another in a jail letter by now. Either "I made an agreement to allow them to keep me in the JoF for X months and then I will leave then if I am ready" or "These JoF jerkops want me to stay in here for a whooollleeee year for healing Barb. Write to the president and governor!". Espcially if the deal is to go to some kind of home. I can't see him not raging in a letter about that. Especially given his hatred of slow in the minds he would never go for residing with them voluntarily. Granted, that statement could make your point too. Maybe he was offered to live with what he perceives to be slow in the minds and said fuck that. I still think we would have heard about it.

Edit: I just checked and the November was a continuance. I think we are both talking about the one in August though or did something happen in November that I missed separate from that?

Also, in general, I saw something a few days back about Kengle bogarting a jail letter. Did anything new come of that or did we get any insight into the content?

 

[Shovelbird]

What's wrong you honey mouthed mother fucker? No smiles and shit eating grin for the camera this time? I cant tell too good with the low quality picture but he has seemed to have lost a lot of weight though, maybe the commissary wasn't giving him junk food to stuff himself silly with after all.

might be good for him?

 

[Shovel Mech Pilot]

Plea bargains are so common that it would be highly unusual for the prosecution not to offer one in these circumstances. Approximately 90% of criminal cases end with a plea bargain. In the 10% that actually go to trial, I am sure that a plea bargain is offered along the way.

As much as we fixate on Chris, he isn't special. This isn't some mass-murder-level crime here. He fucked his mom, which is a "wobbler" in VA in that it could be a misdemeanor or a felony given the circumstances. And if it's a felony, it's one of the lowest classes of felonies. If treated as a misdemeanor, it's on par with petty larceny. So there is really no reason why they wouldn't offer some type of plea bargain.

I'm sure Chris would never consent to a plea bargain. So Heilberg's strategy might be to just have Chris sit in jail for a year and then argue that he should walk with time served, thereby avoiding a conviction and a circumstance in which Chris might have to testify.

In general, Chris has deliberately avoided talking about what has specifically been going on in his case. He's not a complete idiot. I don't think he would mention a plea bargain in the same way that he didn't talk about where had been for the past few months.

In fact, I think his letters are actually pretty calculated. I know that people rarely agree with me on this, but I think that the "Jesus" stuff was cooked up by Chris as a characteristically ham-fisted way of providing support for a possible mental health mitigation argument. He never mentioned being Jesus prior to being sent to jail (and I think prior to meeting Heilberg) and his early letters were essentially "hey, I'm Jesus now! Make sure to publish this letter online and give a copy to my attorney!" In other words, he did the most stereotypically crazy thing that one can do and he wanted his attorney to have a copy of the letter to use with the prosecutor.

Anyway. Chris will sit in jail until August and then walk with time served.

 

[AnOminous]

You specifically said, and I quoted it, that he was not a public defender. But okay.

He isn't though. A public defender is specifically someone appointed by the Virginia Public Defender Offices. Heilberg is a private attorney who was court-appointed as Chris's counsel. He essentially volunteered to do this, whether specifically for Chris or, more likely, because the judge picked him to make sure the case doesn't get fucked up beyond belief.

 

[Got Milk!]

He isn't though. A public defender is specifically someone appointed by the Virginia Public Defender Offices. Heilberg is a private attorney who was court-appointed as Chris's counsel. He essentially volunteered to do this, whether specifically for Chris or, more likely, because the judge picked him to make sure the case doesn't get fucked up beyond belief.

I get what you are saying but in the most basic terms you either acquire an attorney of your own volition or you get assigned one from the state/county. That person is defending you on the public's dime. I would call that a public defender even though I understand he is not a state/county employed public defender.

I could be wrong but I thought when he first got Heilburg assigned to him that there was talk that they don't really have state/county employed public defenders so they have a role of private attorneys they bring in to act as their public defenders. In turn, those attorneys get some form of incentive or meet a BAR requirement or something. It's been almost a year and I couldn't find a cite offhand so I could definitely be wrong on this.

 

[AnOminous]

I get what you are saying but in the most basic terms you either acquire an attorney of your own volition or you get assigned one from the state/county. That person is defending you on the public's dime. I would call that a public defender even though I understand he is not a state/county employed public defender.

Public defender usually implies a lower level of counsel than someone like Heilberg. It's not fair, but it's true.

It is actually rather remarkable he has a lawyer who makes Rob Bell look like a clown, although he has had no real chance to strut his stuff. If he's doing this, it is out of some personal paladin viewpoint.

Terms of art like "public defender" generally have very specific meanings, and in this case, "public defender" does generally mean only people who directly work for the PD office.

 

[Got Milk!]

Public defender usually implies a lower level of counsel than someone like Heilberg. It's not fair, but it's true.

Yeah I get that. Typically people fresh out of law school trying to work up the ranks is usually what you get. Or some guy who's been doing it 30 years and drinks on the job. Either way, they don't tend to give a fuck. You're case number 7 today and number 3 next week.

It is actually rather remarkable he has a lawyer who makes Rob Bell look like a clown, although he has had no real chance to strut his stuff. If he's doing this, it is out of some personal paladin viewpoint.

Twice the lawyer at a $40k discount. Apparently it's legal dealing days in Virginia. All attorneys must go (to defend Chris)! Get in and save NOW NOW NOW!

 

[A-№1]

My point was that you said Chris was basically keeping himself there by not accepting a plea deal but we have no evidence he was offered one.

We also have no evidence we wasn't offered one, but since it's a standard practice, especially in J&DR court, there is absolutely no reason to assume a plea deal wasn't worked out between Heilberg and Consolvo (to save everyone time and hassle), but then rejected by Chris (because Chris is an idiot - and Barb wasn't there to tell him to take the deal).

Think about it for a moment. They wobbled Chris' charges down from various felonies to a single misdemeanor. They shuffled him down to family court instead of keeping him in criminal court. Then they closed the family court to protect proceedings to make things go as smoothly as possible. So everything we do know shows the court is trying to handle Chris' case as quietly and quickly and smoothly as possible. Do you really think they'd do all that and then force the case to trial anyways?

Heilberg would refuse a reasonable plea deal. Consolvo wouldn't either. If the prosecution and defense can work it out between them, the judge is unlikely to say no. What possible reason could the court have to refuse offering a plea deal? I can't think of one, but if you can, I want to hear it.

The only obstacle has to be Chris.

The NOOOOOvember August appearance was the one where he sperged out and demanded to see his toys in return for cooperation with the court proceedings, right? If so, would you offer that person any sort of anything when you can clearly see they have a very small grasp on reality and are demanding to return to the crime scene for toys... at age 39.

That was his first appearance and only four days since his arrest. The appearance was open and reported on by some christorians and weens. What we know is both Heilberg and the prosecution agreed to deny bail for Chris' own good. Also that Heilberg requested a continuance to have time for a mental evaluation of Chris, and the continuance was granted. That's a LOT of cooperation and agreement between prosecution and defense.

And we also know, of course, that Chris was Chris in the courtroom.

Chris' next appearance was supposed to be in September, but Heilberg requested and received another continuance for further evaluation of Chris. Clearly the prosecution and court weren't too eager to deal with Chris.

When the defense requests a mental evaluation, it's generally for one of two reasons: they are setting up a DimCap defense or similar, or they need to figure out exactly what sort of dumbfuckery they've stepped into. The extra continuance for mental evaluations indicates it was more the second reason than the first. Heilberg was probably setting up a DimCap defense, but was also having difficulties with Chris. He might have been desperately trying to get Chris to accept a deal.

Meanwhile, I can all but guarantee the prosecution had an initial plea deal offer in hand on August fifth, because that's what they do. It might not have been a good deal for Chris, but they almost definitely had one. Why waste everybody's time on someone like Chris if they can get it over with the first day? it was either withdrawn when the prosecution saw what they were dealing with in Chris, or Heilberg declined it because he wanted the evaluation first. Chris definitely would have refused it or did refuse it regardless.

If Chris had behaved himself in court, there's a pretty good chance a quick deal might have been made for a misdemeanor offense, but instead Chris was Chris, and made everyone rethink their plans.

The September hearing never happened, and the November hearing was closed, so we don't know anything for a certain, but by that time Heilberg and Consolvo both knew what they were dealing with, and had had ample time to work something out between them. Because that's what lawyers do. Neither wanted to take Chris to trial, because even bench trials can be unpredictable pains in the ass. Again, however, Chris was probably Chris in the courtroom. So another continuance was granted. Why else would they have done so? It wasn't for further evaluations. Those were finished (for now). Chris being Chris is the most likely explanation, and Chris being Chris would include refusing any plea deal.

Since then it's been continuance after continuance, with the court resorting to increasingly harsh methods to try to convince / teach Chris to behave in court. And longer and longer delays between appearances, likely because the court's attitude has become: "Fuck this guy. Why waste time on him?"

Chris is probably refusing any offer that prevents him from returning to 14BLC and his fuckmommy. He may yet force his case to trial, in which case he will have utterly screwed himself, because then all bets are off. It may convince the prosecution to actually punish him.

Macing a gamestop employee and man-macing Barb are two very very different things.

But here's the thing: they reduced the charge for the GameStop incident as part of the accepted plea deal in criminal court. They reduced felony incest charge and moved the case to family court BEFORE offering anything. The prosecution is doing everything in its power to avoid punishing Chris this time. Why would they do that unless they were trying to find some other, more permanent solution for the whole Chris situation?

Also, there is the fact Chris hasn't mentioned (that I am aware of) anything regarding a plea deal or even an offer.

Why would he? You're assuming Chris would pay attention to boring court stuff. I don't believe he ever mentioned the plea deals he took in the Game Place or GameStop cases. He just whined about the sentences he had agreed to, not that he had actually agreed to take them.

Chris is far more concerned about getting back to 14BLC and his toys than any stupid court proceedings. And NO offer made to Chris is going to include either of those things.

Either "I made an agreement to allow them to keep me in the JoF for X months and then I will leave then if I am ready"

The court doesn't seem to be interested in keeping Chris in jail. I don't think any offer would include more than a suspended sentence. They're probably far more interested in bunging Chris off to a tard home as quickly as possible and never having to deal with him ever again. But since that's not 14BLC with all his toys, Chris refuses (or won't even listen).

Chris doesn't really care about jail time nearly so much as he cares about his sonichu temple and his toys.

Maybe he was offered to live with what he perceives to be slow in the minds and said fuck that.

Chris would stop listening and crash into slumber the moment he finds out it's not going to be 14BLC. The details don't concern him.

I think his pre and post hospital mug shots and art are significant. He seems a bit broken. It's possible the hospital managed to show him just how screwed he is. The picture where he moves 14BLC to his imaginary CWCville might indicate he finally realizes he's never going back there IRL.

tl;dr: A normal person would be overjoyed to be wobbled down to a misdemeanor and would have taken the first or deal offered back in August or September. For what Chris did, that's already an unbelievably sweetheart deal from the prosecution. But then normal people don't voluntarily fuck their elderly mothers. Chris makes other choices.

So, having said all that, what's your hypothesis for everything that's been going on in the jail saga? Why do you think it's dragged on and on?

I saw something a few days back about Kengle bogarting a jail letter.

That's what Kengle does. Ignore him. Eventually he'll get hard up for attention and spill.

 

[A-№1]

It is actually rather remarkable he has a lawyer who makes Rob Bell look like a clown, although he has had no real chance to strut his stuff. If he's doing this, it is out of some personal paladin viewpoint.

Just how and why a heavy hitter like Heilberg is defending a pissant like Chris is probably the greatest mystery of this entire case.

What is definitely known is Heilberg must be the most frustrated attorney in the entire state of Virginia.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Anyway. Chris will sit in jail until August and then walk with time served

Chris is probably the greatest argument for nihilism. If a literal mother fucker who's retarded as all get out and and should have been dead five times over can go free with the judicial system handling him kid gloves and getting him a home to stay in. Then truly there is neither god nor intelligent design of any kind out in the universe. It's all just random nothingness that happens to favor the slow in the minded.

 

[Shovel Mech Pilot]

Chris is probably the greatest argument for nihilism. If a literal mother fucker who's retarded as all get out and and should have been dead five times over can go free with the judicial system handling him kid gloves and getting him a home to stay in. Then truly there is neither god nor intelligent design of any kind out in the universe. It's all just random nothingness that happens to favor the slow in the minded.

Of course he would go free, as would anyone else charged with this crime. It doesn't involve a life sentence. By the time this is all said and done, he would have been in jail for a year, which is a possible sentence for the crime. I don't think he got any kind of kid gloves here.

 

[Optimus Prime]

In fact, I think his letters are actually pretty calculated. I know that people rarely agree with me on this, but I think that the "Jesus" stuff was cooked up by Chris as a characteristically ham-fisted way of providing support for a possible mental health mitigation argument. He never mentioned being Jesus prior to being sent to jail (and I think prior to meeting Heilberg) and his early letters were essentially "hey, I'm Jesus now! Make sure to publish this letter online and give a copy to my attorney!" In other words, he did the most stereotypically crazy thing that one can do and he wanted his attorney to have a copy of the letter to use with the prosecutor.

I disagree, if only because Chris was already going on about being God and a bunch of other bullshit well before going to jail. The Jesus stuff was purely because the only thing he probably could read was the Bible and since Jesus is the son of god (and then becomes God after the crucifixation which is why we have Easter? I've honestly never really been clear on that), Chris's penchant for self-inserting into literally any media kicked in and BAM! now he's the second coming of the Lord. In addition to everything else.

Plus, it probably was his coping mechanism because he was cut off from everything he knew, leaving really only his escapist fantasies so he double down harder than ever. We know from the mugshot upon his return to jail proper that he ain't the happy moron he was going into jail almost a year ago.

Just how and why a heavy hitter like Heilberg is defending a pissant like Chris is probably the greatest mystery of this entire case.

What is definitely known is Heilberg must be the most frustrated attorney in the entire state of Virginia.

Not really, this is probably some kind of required pro-bono stuff and Chris just got lucky.

"Lucky" of course being subjective given the proverbial fat lady hasn't started singing quite yet and Chris can still fuck this all up somehow, as well as the fact it's likely he's never going back to 14BC.

 

[Shovel Mech Pilot]

I disagree, if only because Chris was already going on about being God and a bunch of other bullshit well before going to jail. The Jesus stuff was purely because the only thing he probably could read was the Bible and since Jesus is the son of god (and then becomes God after the crucifixation which is why we have Easter? I've honestly never really been clear on that), Chris's penchant for self-inserting into literally any media kicked in and BAM! now he's the second coming of the Lord. In addition to everything else.

Have we all forgotten that he was a hardcore Jesus freak for the majority of his life? It's not like he didn't know who Jesus was until he got to jail.

He did have this LARP about being the Console Goddess or whatever, but these were characters he made up to fit the context of his overall fantasy world. Selecting Jesus as his new fursona is an odd move and, IMO, best explained by his (poorly executed) efforts to help his own case. Hence why he was so insistent that his attorney get a copy of the letter. (This doesn't make sense otherwise.)

 

[AnOminous]

Chris is probably the greatest argument for nihilism. If a literal mother fucker who's retarded as all get out and and should have been dead five times over can go free with the judicial system handling him kid gloves and getting him a home to stay in. Then truly there is neither god nor intelligent design of any kind out in the universe. It's all just random nothingness that happens to favor the slow in the minded.

It strikes me as pretty civilized actually. The main problem with criminals who have served their time is if you just dump them right back on the streets, they're not going to have the ability to avoid committing the petty crimes it is almost impossible not to commit on a daily basis just by dint of being homeless.

In Chris's case in particular, he's still going to be a menace to vulnerable women or possibly worse, girls. The fact that he can't grasp that raping your own mom is sick and wrong really shows where his head is.

My point was that you said Chris was basically keeping himself there by not accepting a plea deal but we have no evidence he was offered one.

The latter is an inference from the nearly universal practice of the prosecution opening with a deal. Often, this is the best offer they'll make and every subsequent offer will be worse.

And no, we don't directly know that it happened. The prosecutor could be being a serious hardass, but that doesn't seem consistent with not already having brought a felony to the table.

Another possibility is they already came to an agreement out of court and are just going to bring a plea deal to the court at the end of the year. The absolute miraculous best case scenario for Chris would be something like being let out at the end of the year and the case nol prosed.

I'm thinking they're going to insist on at least a misdemeanor though.

 

[Tennis-Ball-Tony]

Just how and why a heavy hitter like Heilberg is defending a pissant like Chris is probably the greatest mystery of this entire case.

What is definitely known is Heilberg must be the most frustrated attorney in the entire state of Virginia.

Law is seen as this old people's club, that is stuck in the past, and these days, a lot of lawyers are deliberately courting people like Chris (trans) as a way to advertise that they're "hip to the new cool kids". Given the social media explosion of Chris after this all happened, Heilberg probably thought it would be a great way to get some free advertising. If you read about him in the local rags, he always seems to pop up with well known, local cases, sometimes controversial, with his opinions. At the time, all Heilberg knew of Chris was "Trans", "Famous on the internet", and "in all the local media".

Or, there's that other theory that he's just a half decent defense lawyer, and the VA courts wanted to make sure to cross every t and dot every i, so they wouldn't be later accused of railroading a poor trans woman. Given the shit that happens in Charlottesville, they probably didn't want a horde of LGBT wingnuts protesting in town and causing trouble, imagining that they would have Chris's back.

Reading about Heilberg's cases and statements in the media about other things, he seems like less scummy Saul Goodman, but still on that level.

 

[Pappy Striderite]

I would call that a public defender

I would call that a chris defender.

trust @AnOminous; he has it right. the judge is desperate to get through this shit clean n quick without any talky-talk of mistakes by anyone.

Then truly there is neither god nor intelligent design of any kind out in the universe. It's all just random nothingness that happens to favor the slow in the minded.

"the universe always favors fools, and lets futility have the right-of-way."
-- probably george carlin...?

 

[Ishtar]

Honest question for everyone, do you think anyone involved in this-court and prison personnel, the doctors and staff at the mental hospital, and the cops have done any online research on Chris?

Of course they don’t need too per se, and probably have more important concerns that checking to see if a fat autist is really “famous on the internet” but surely at least someone would be curious, don’t you think?

There is so much information on Chris out there, and it’s all so easily accessed, that surely someone has at least checked the wiki, if not read Kiwifarms threads.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Have we all forgotten that he was a hardcore Jesus freak for the majority of his life? It's not like he didn't know who Jesus was until he got to jail.

He did have this LARP about being the Console Goddess or whatever, but these were characters he made up to fit the context of his overall fantasy world. Selecting Jesus as his new fursona is an odd move and, IMO, best explained by his (poorly executed) efforts to help his own case. Hence why he was so insistent that his attorney get a copy of the letter. (This doesn't make sense otherwise.)

Honestly I just don't think Chris is actually capable of trying to go for the insanity defense of his own devices since he's already pretty far gone (this guy did attempt DIY Vaginoplasty TWICE after all). Thus, the consumption of any kind of media and putting himself into position of power is why I believe he started going full Jesus, especially since he started trying to make connections such as Null being Judas for 'betraying' him. We just don't know how much this affects him, though, since Chris content is filtered through letters and then again mainly through Kengle.

Honest question for everyone, do you think anyone involved in this-court and prison personnel, the doctors and staff at the mental hospital, and the cops have done any online research on Chris?

Of course they don’t need too per se, and probably have more important concerns that checking to see if a fat autist is really “famous on the internet” but surely at least someone would be curious, don’t you think?

There is so much information on Chris out there, and it’s all so easily accessed, that surely someone has at least checked the wiki, if not read Kiwifarms threads.

Without a doubt they have to know about his earlier incident with the Gamestop Macing which did have to get the legal system involved, as it would have been on his record. Which in turn would involve what Chris would have said about his motivations - all utter nonsense about blue arms and lying about feeling threatened as an excuse to use the mace (which he clearly had intended to use and he wanted to provoke a confrontation as justification - the video blatantly shows him looking around like a guilty child would before doing something they clearly know is wrong).

 

[Pappy Striderite]

Of course they don’t need too per se, and probably have more important concerns that checking to see if a fat autist is really “famous on the internet” but surely at least someone would be curious, don’t you think?

interns bro. they're not just for the mouthsex.