The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Stabmaster Arson]

It never happened.

Finally, he says something true about the holocaust.

 

[History Speaks]

The resettlement theory, according to which at least 1.5 million Jews were transited out of the Nazi camp system and resettled in a permanent reservation, is an attempt to explain the disappearance of millions of Jews in the Nazi camps. The leading deniers (Mattogno, Rudolf, Mike Enoch) have pushed this theory because they implicitly recognize how ridiculous it sounds to say "millions of Jews just disappeared in the camps, we have no idea what happened to them, but they definitely were not killed" and expect that normal people will take this seriously.

Deniers can show that Jews were transited from one camp to another, but this is irrelevant., because the point is that at least 3 million Jews disappeared in the Nazi camp system. You either need to accept that millions of Jews (the overwhelming majority of those deported to the camps) somehow vanished in the Nazi camps, or argue, as deniers have, that the Jews were transited out of the camp system and "resettled" somewhere. The problem of course is that there is zero physical evidence that such a resettlement -which would have amounted to a nation of millions - ever existed.

Btw many of my posts have been deleted by mods for double posting. The norm against double posting makes sense and I was rather petty to push back against it. I will abide by it going forward.

 

[Bonesjones]

Primarily the part of the Holocaust that we're debating is the German decision to kill the non-employable Jews , 60-80% of the total Jews within their realm according to their documents.

You believe they weren't killed, rather they were resettled somewhere. Are you saying it's not important or relevant that there is no evidence of this?

If millions of non-employable Jews had been resettled by the Germans, doubtless there would be documentary and witness testimony allowing us to account for them, as in the case of Transnistria , an area managed by the Romanians.

View attachment 3487740

But they weren't resettled, so you can't account for even a tiny fraction of the Jews in question, a single community. It never happened.

If you deny the Nazis ability to gas and cremate jews, you are a holocaust denier. You are done. Nothing else matters.

 

[JohnDoe]

The problem of course is that there is zero physical evidence that such a genocide -which would have amounted to a mountain of skulls - ever happened.

Fascinating point! You can certainly sign me up for your newsletter.

 

[History Speaks]

There is a ton of physical evidence - numerous mass graves, residue of hydrogen cyanide in the gas chamber ruins at Auschwitz, Prussian Blue staining in the building that held the gas chamber at Majdanek (see attached), autopsied cadavers from victims of gassing at Natzweiler, etc.


Perhaps you prefer to live in a fantasy world for the sake of being contrarian or appearing smart to edgy midwits or for the sake of Nazi LARPing. But the pretense that you are coming at your views because of "science" rather than memes is childish.

 

[Bonesjones]

The resettlement theory, according to which at least 1.5 million Jews were transited out of the Nazi camp system and resettled in a permanent reservation, is an attempt to explain the disappearance of millions of Jews in the Nazi camps. The leading deniers (Mattogno, Rudolf, Mike Enoch) have pushed this theory because they implicitly recognize how ridiculous it sounds to say "millions of Jews just disappeared in the camps, we have no idea what happened to them, but they definitely were not killed" and expect that normal people will take this seriously.

Deniers can show that Jews were transited from one camp to another, but this is irrelevant., because the point is that at least 3 million Jews disappeared in the Nazi camp system. You either need to accept that millions of Jews (the overwhelming majority of those deported to the camps) somehow vanished in the Nazi camps, or argue, as deniers have, that the Jews were transited out of the camp system and "resettled" somewhere. The problem of course is that there is zero physical evidence that such a resettlement -which would have amounted to a nation of millions - ever existed.

Btw many of my posts have been deleted by mods for double posting. The norm against double posting makes sense and I was rather petty to push back against it. I will abide by it going forward.

You misunderstand everything. The point they make is basic physical and scientific possibility. The Nazis were capable and completely proven to move these masses of people. They are not proven to have the capability to gas and cremate them. This is basic logic. You can't do the impossible leaving only the improbable. It doesn't matter what you argue to the contrary.

Again. The holocaust is the gas and cremation of millions of people. Either point out the physical possibility of this happening or admit you are a holocaust denier. There is no other option.


Also now you are looping in your arguments. Another sign of a weak mind.

 

[History Speaks]

Chugger, it is not quite right to say we do not have a compelling documentary record of Aktion Reinhardt.

We know that Globocnik destroyed the bulk of the documents related to Aktion Reinhardt. Nevertheless, considerable German documentation has been found concerning the Reinhardt camps. Goebbels says in his diary that the majority of Jews deported there are being "liquidated." Korherr says that the Jews sent to the Reinhardt camps have 'left Europe' via "special treatment" (Sonderbehandlung).

We also know from the documentary record that Aktion Reinhardt was extremely profitable, because the Jews deported to the Reinhardt camps had all their belongings stolen. Apparently deniers want us to believe the Nazis ripped off the clothes and underwear from the Jews before "resettling" them, often in the middle of the winter.

(`Note that special treatment (Sonderbehandlung) was an SS code word for killing. This can be inferred from documents that say "special treatment" is to be carried out by hanging, shooting, etc.)

 

[Bonesjones]

Chugger, it is not quite right to say we do not have a compelling documentary record of Aktion Reinhardt.

We know that Globocnik destroyed the bulk of the documents related to Aktion Reinhardt. Nevertheless, considerable German documentation has been found concerning the Reinhardt camps. Goebbels says in his diary that the majority of Jews deported there are being "liquidated." Korherr says that the Jews sent to the Reinhardt camps have 'left Europe' via "special treatment" (Sonderbehandlung).

We also know from the documentary record that Aktion Reinhardt was extremely profitable, because the Jews deported to the Reinhardt camps had all their belongings stolen. Apparently deniers want us to believe the Nazis ripped off the clothes and underwear from the Jews before "resettling" them, often in the middle of the winter.

(`Note that special treatment (Sonderbehandlung) was an SS code word for killing. This can be inferred from documents that say "special treatment" is to be carried out by hanging, shooting, etc.)

Just a reminder, we broke enigma in 41, so why do we have zero documentation from the allies about any of this? Why is it all post war fabrication? Why do they need code words in internal documents?

Is it because if you don't assign double meaning to basic orders your arguement falls apart entirely?

 

[Chugger]

Chugger, it is not quite right to say we do not have a compelling documentary record of Aktion Reinhardt.

Yeah I meant just materials being shipped in. I asked the question here and got an answer from Nick Terry https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=850423#p850423

Perhaps I should have mentioned excavators were brought in for some reason

https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/or12-excavators/#

"- A telegram from Odilo Globocnik, the head of Operation Reinhard in Lublin, Poland, dated September 4, 1942. In this telegram, he insisted that two “bucket excavators” be acquired immediately from the August Harms Company in Hamburg, Germany.
- A telegram from Christian Wirth, the overseer of all three camps, to Hans Kammler in Berlin dated June 2, 1942. The subject of this telegram is the delivery of an excavator from the Lamczak Company in Berlin. Wirth complains that an excavator had arrived, been damaged, and could not be repaired in Poland.
- A shipping document dated June 29, 1943. This document indicates that the Nazis were returning, again to the Lamczak Company in Berlin, one of the three excavators at Treblinka."

In addition to this evidence yeah there is the Goebbels diary

Korherr/Hofle

There are also train records showing trains coming in full and leaving empty.

Message about "the unbearable smell of cadavers" at Treblinka

The Globocnik note, which also mentions the camps were dismantled and surveillance farms built over them.

Diary entries from German soldiers reporting extermination activities

The Stroop document (Jews sent to "T2" to be "destroyed")

And documents showing the camps were staffed by veterans of the T4 Euthanasia program

Just a reminder, we broke enigma in 41, so why do we have zero documentation from the allies about any of this?

The British knew the Holocaust was happening in part because they broke lower level German codes

https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/about/cryptologic-heritage/historical-figures-publications/publications/wwii/eavesdropping.pdf

Does it matter that they had no intelligence whatsoever concerning mass resettlement?

 

[History Speaks]

Just a reminder, we broke enigma in 41, so why do we have zero documentation from the allies about any of this? Why is it all post war fabrication? Why do they need code words in internal documents?
Is it because if you don't assign double meaning to basic orders your arguement falls apart entirely?

The Korherr Report - which I just referenced - is corroborated by the Höfle Telegram, which is a core Holocaust document because it corroborates the Korherr Report figures for the number of Jews who 'left Europe' via 'Special Treatment' in the Reinhardt camps. The Höfle Telegram was decoded by British codebreakers in Bletchley Park.

 

[Bonesjones]

Yeah I meant just materials being shipped in. I asked the question here and got an answer from Nick Terry https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=850423#p850423

Perhaps I should have mentioned excavators were brought in for some reason

https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/or12-excavators/#



In addition to this evidence yeah there is the Goebbels diary

Korherr/Hofle

There are also train records showing trains coming in full and leaving empty.

Message about "the unbearable smell of cadavers" at Treblinka

The Globocnik note, which also mentions the camps were dismantled and surveillance farms built over them.

Diary entries from German soldiers reporting extermination activities

The Stroop document (Jews sent to "T2" to be "destroyed")

And documents showing the camps were staffed by veterans of the T4 Euthanasia program

The British knew the Holocaust was happening in part because they broke lower level German codes

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/PoliceDecodes.html

Does it matter that they had no intelligence whatsoever concerning mass resettlement?

They had no idea that people were being gassed and cremated for years on end on a 24/7 basis, so I'm assuming large gaps in their intelligence. Or war propaganda being spread. One or the other.

Again, you've denied the ability for the Nazis to gas and cremate millions of people. So why would I talk to a dirty holocaust denier?

The Korherr Report - which I just referenced - is corroborated by the Höfle Telegram, which is a core Holocaust document because it corroborates the Korherr Report figures for the number of Jews who 'left Europe' via 'Special Treatment' in the Reinhardt camps. The Höfle Telegram was decoded by British codebreakers in Bletchley Park.

Hey guys this piece of paper says this other piece of paper is totally true! That makes the impossible possible!

Again either start showing the physical capability of the Nazis to carry out their extinction plans or shut up.


Also lol at the idea of excavators being proof of anything. Hey guys they ordered soap, this was code for the soap they made out of jews.

Again and again you try to force double meaning to normal things because your narrative depends on it, while ignoring huge physically impossible gaps in capability.

This is why you are both retarded niggers. You dodge to irrelevant details any chance you can to avoid the elephant in the room.

 

[History Speaks]

Chugger, do they all behave like this (repeating debunked talking points from image boards and never actually constructing arguments for themselves), or have some of them actually shown a willingness to read and learn stuff?

 

[Bonesjones]

Chugger, do they all behave like this (repeating debunked talking points from image boards and never actually constructing arguments for themselves), or have some of them actually shown a willingness to read and learn stuff?

If you say they transported the jews east and starved them to death, that's Holocaust denial you fucking retard. They have to be gassed and cremated. This is your own objective standard.

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

so I'm assuming large gaps in their intelligence. Or war propaganda being spread. One or the other.

I remember hearing about WW1 propaganda where they told all the English lads that the Germans were bayoneting babies. They admitted it was bollocks in the twenties . Reminds of the gulf war "stabbing babies in incubators" story that got ran that ended up being bullshit. Or all those times they said Assad was gassing his own people, then walked it back. I think they're on their third time accusing him now.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Chugger, do they all behave like this (repeating debunked talking points from image boards and never actually constructing arguments for themselves), or have some of them actually shown a willingness to read and learn stuff?

Ask him in your private discussion you surely have, considering you communicate in multiple communities in the same threads, operate from the same playbook, that he posted your videos despite them having less than 1000 views, the chance of you two not knowing each other is miniscule.

Even if you don't, you should get each other's number so you can have long loving talks about things you don't really believe yourselves.

The mock theatrical discussion is weak as fuck. Theater depends on drama. And in that context, drama means when things change. But you two have never and will never change. You won't for a single moment disagree with each other. So it's boring to watch. You don't function like people. You don't enjoy whatever parts of the site strike your fancy. You act like people with a job to do. This is why people will think you're shills, regardless of whether you are.

As for your earlier posted hitler horty communication, I've been looking into it for a bit. Do you know in which archive the original letter is kept? I'd like to verify its veracity and presuming it is somewhere in europe I can do as a sidetrip in my next vacation.

 

[Bonesjones]

I remember hearing about WW1 propaganda where they told all the English lads that the Germans were bayoneting babies. They admitted it was bollocks in the twenties . Reminds of the gulf war "stabbing babies in incubators" story that got ran that ended up being bullshit. Or all those times they said Assad was gassing his own people, then walked it back. I think they're on their third time accusing him now.

Its pretty easy to imagine how rumors from people escaping interment camps got turned into propaganda. You've got a ton of people who are starving and being worked to death see bodies pile up and work details running nonstop to cremate them to avoid spreading typhus further. This gets turned into people being gassed and cremated. The Soviets and British run with it because it helps provide a moral cause to keep fighting a war they are barely scraping by in.

We know the Soviets obviously huge amount of crimes. Most people forget that the British exported food from India during a famine, which is also genocide. The Americans interned huge amounts of Japanese, Italians, and Germans. If the war happened in America would those be turned into death camps?

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

Most people forget that the British exported food from India during a famine, which is also genocide.

You know what, India hasn't forgotten. They are nice enough to not bring it up though and move past it. I would completely understand a lot of butthurt over that.

 

[Chugger]

Chugger, do they all behave like this (repeating debunked talking points from image boards and never actually constructing arguments for themselves), or have some of them actually shown a willingness to read and learn stuff?

Only Rapechu, aka 'the Great One'. It's really too bad you didn't get to meet him.

Bonesjones is near the bottom, like talking to a cheap AI simulation of a Holocaust denier . Not really worth it lol. I usually have him on ignore. Lemmingwise is probably the best of the bunch, but hasn't shown the ability to learn anything yet. I have some hope for him though. I don't know why, since I'm pretty sure he hates me, but I have some hope

 

[Bonesjones]

Only Rapechu, aka 'the Great One'. It's really too bad you didn't get to meet him.

Bonesjones is near the bottom, like talking to a cheap AI simulation of a Holocaust denier . Not really worth it lol. I usually have him on ignore. Lemmingwise is probably the best of the bunch, but hasn't shown the ability to learn anything yet. I have some hope for him though. I don't know why, since I'm pretty sure he hates me, but I have some hope

Aww I'm on the bottom because I don't allow you to engage in pilpul. That's a mark of honor, you retard.

 

[History Speaks]

Only Rapechu, aka 'the Great One'. It's really too bad you didn't get to meet him.

Bonesjones is near the bottom, like talking to a cheap AI simulation of a Holocaust denier . Not really worth it lol. I usually have him on ignore. Lemmingwise is probably the best of the bunch, but hasn't shown the ability to learn anything yet. I have some hope for him though. I don't know why, since I'm pretty sure he hates me, but I have some hope

I agree that Lemmingwise seems like the most intelligent of the bunch, but he is still useless because of his massive confirmation bias and unwillingness to read anything beyond image board talking points. I have a dash of hope too with him tho.

Bonesjones is too dumb and ignorant to know he is dumb and ignorant, unfortunately. Which probably means we should go easier on him. Same with the “cremation science” guy from last night.

Lemmingwise, unlike most of the documents I cite, the United States prosecutors used the minutes from Horthy in the Nuremberg trials, so I believe the document would be at the Nuremberg archives at Harvard or in the us national archives. But it is also likely that a copy exists in the German foreign office archives in Berlin (Auswärtiges Amt).