George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

Fantasy authors who have not sold as many books as Tolkien:

George RR Martin
Michael Moorcock
And Terry Pratchett.

To borrow @Muttnik's theme, three cynical misanthropes unable to topple an author who wrote stories of hope and goodness.

A funny thing, I started going off Pratchett some time after turning 13.

The book snobs tried to convince them that the show was garbage around season 4, and the tv fans revolted and abandoned the fandom, only for many of them eventually admitting the book snobs have been right all along saying that the show was not going to be good if they removed important characters and plots.

I suffer from 'the book was better' syndrome, that's why I held off until the first season ended, so I could judge it fairly. Then I read the book. Guess what? It was better.

It also gave me lots of laughs at the online reeing when the TV version of the Red Wedding aired. Somehow it never really occured to me that people who only watched the show and got way too attached to it didn't know that was coming.
 
GRRM's grossness reminds me of the South Park episode were the boys write The Tale of Scrotie McBoogerballs - a book so disgusting everyone vomits when reading it but people still think the book has a deeper meaning & over-analyze it. That's GRRM's fans or what's left of it. Scrotie McBoogerballs could have been written by that fat fuck.
Hell, South Park directly parodied GoT and GRRM himself when the show was at its peak.


If this episode becomes the one thing people remember about GoT in decades to come (which is entirely possible considering how long South Park has been able to maintain its relevancy) I would gladly die laughing knowing that GRRM's legacy ended up as being an overpromising lazy fat fuck who was obsessed with dicks.
 
Fantasy authors who have not sold as many books as Tolkien:

George RR Martin
Michael Moorcock
And Terry Pratchett.

To borrow @Muttnik's theme, three cynical misanthropes unable to topple an author who wrote stories of hope and goodness.
In Pratchett's defense, he really wasn't a misanthrope (his depiction of Death for example is very sympathetic to humanity) nor was he trying to out-do Tolkien as his is more of a harmless satire of Tolkien's world and fantasy as a genre that accidentally ended up becoming its own thing.

You can say the same about GRRM, but his work is arguably more unpleasant to read.
 
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Of the three, I honestly prefer Pratchett, but I enjoy humor more than straight fantasy. Still, I think he did manage to strike a better balance in realizing human flaws without falling into complete cynicism like GRRM.
I prefer Tolkien, but I can appreciate the contributions of the other two, especially Pratchett.

Martin has a bit of an ego problem though imo. If you're going to pop off against the conventions of your genre, you should probably finish the body of your work first beforehand. It's been 11 years now since his last book. This has almost taken as long as Duke Nukem Forever, and it's fully due to endorsed procrastination. Not such a problem when you're young, but Martin is 73 now. He's 8 years away from the age Tolkien died at, so unless he learned some secrets from Stan Lee it's a legitimate concern that he might die before his story's over. If that happens, all the exhaustive tax policies in the world won't improve an unfinished product.
 
I'll unashamdly say that I'm a massive Martin nerd, loved the books.

I think a lot of people also misunderstand the books, or at least the early ones. People don't die because it's grimdark, or for random reasons; they die because they make retarded/wrong choices.
- Ned dies because he's an idiot, not because he's too honourable or whatever. He made a power play with not enough power and he died for it
- Robb died because he was thinking with his cock, and he pissed off his three largest allies. Directly insulting one of them with a snub.
- Tywin dies because he's spent his entire life bullying his son, and then have that son massive amounts of power because he thought his son thought as he did and valued family.

There's some really good stuff in Martins books in terms of creative magic, writing and world building. It's - I'd say - about as realistic as LOTR is, but just focuses on different things. The magic, and the myths are inspired by these primeval religions and beliefs of early Europeans, and they really speak to it. Warging, skinwalking, and being a seer are these horrible cursed fates that make you less than a man and more of a beast. Bran had to eat the flesh of his friend to unlock his full potential as a seer; it's grim stuff.
 
I'll unashamdly say that I'm a massive Martin nerd, loved the books.

I think a lot of people also misunderstand the books, or at least the early ones. People don't die because it's grimdark, or for random reasons; they die because they make retarded/wrong choices.
- Ned dies because he's an idiot, not because he's too honourable or whatever. He made a power play with not enough power and he died for it
- Robb died because he was thinking with his cock, and he pissed off his three largest allies. Directly insulting one of them with a snub.
- Tywin dies because he's spent his entire life bullying his son, and then have that son massive amounts of power because he thought his son thought as he did and valued family.

There's some really good stuff in Martins books in terms of creative magic, writing and world building. It's - I'd say - about as realistic as LOTR is, but just focuses on different things. The magic, and the myths are inspired by these primeval religions and beliefs of early Europeans, and they really speak to it. Warging, skinwalking, and being a seer are these horrible cursed fates that make you less than a man and more of a beast. Bran had to eat the flesh of his friend to unlock his full potential as a seer; it's grim stuff.
GRRM seems to be at his best when he embraces the fantastical rather than what he interprets as realistic. Most people tend to like the Elden Ring universe.

Sometimes I wonder if the “realism” is something that was pushed by his publisher. Or perhaps he couldn’t decide on his tone because he’s a gardener, so it changed with time. Theres also the possibility that he embraced the “realistic” label because it gave him clout. He just seems to enjoy the fantastical ie fantasy, lovecraftian horror, and super heroes.

Part of me wonders if he’s just bored with GoT and it’s not his favorite work, just the one that made him rich. His Gardner approach is ok if he was just DMing D&D or Mutants & Masterminds but not such a great approach for a multi-book series.
 
GRRM seems to be at his best when he embraces the fantastical rather than what he interprets as realistic. Most people tend to like the Elden Ring universe.

Sometimes I wonder if the “realism” is something that was pushed by his publisher. Or perhaps he couldn’t decide on his tone because he’s a gardener, so it changed with time. Theres also the possibility that he embraced the “realistic” label because it gave him clout. He just seems to enjoy the fantastical ie fantasy, lovecraftian horror, and super heroes.

Part of me wonders if he’s just bored with GoT and it’s not his favorite work, just the one that made him rich. His Gardner approach is ok if he was just DMing D&D or Mutants & Masterminds but not such a great approach for a multi-book series.
I think he has long ago gotten bored with a song of ice and fire. I think the response to some of the dumber stuff in the TV series has also turned him off writing, because I genuinely think that some of the story elements in the show that people hated are things that Martin was going to use.
 
I think a lot of people also misunderstand the books, or at least the early ones. People don't die because it's grimdark, or for random reasons; they die because they make retarded/wrong choices.
- Ned dies because he's an idiot, not because he's too honourable or whatever. He made a power play with not enough power and he died for it
- Robb died because he was thinking with his cock, and he pissed off his three largest allies. Directly insulting one of them with a snub.
- Tywin dies because he's spent his entire life bullying his son, and then have that son massive amounts of power because he thought his son thought as he did and valued family.
What the hell are you talking about? People make retarded decisions because GRRM writes moronic characters. Ned literally tells Cesei his entire plans like a complete dolt to let her get the advantage. This is after she and her family are accused of trying to murder Bran through an assassin, after Joffrey nearly killing Arya in swordplay, killing Sansa's wolf and the butcher's son, Tyrion being taken captive by Cat, and after Jaimie and the Lannister guards nearly kill Ned by stabbing him through his leg. All Ned had to do was seize Cersei's children with his own household guard and then tell Robert and the rest of Westeros why he did it. That would have been the end.

Ned is an idiot. Robb is also an idiot as well. And not honorable. Ned is also a liar who keeps Jon, the real heir to the throne, in secret of his entire lineage and true self. And sends the real heir to the throne....to the Wall like a punishment. Ned basically goes after Cersei for lying about the current heirs to the throne not being from Robert but being from Jaimie. Yet Ned lied to Jon about his parentage and denied him his own rights and lies to everyone else about who Jon is as well. Ned is a liar and loser with no honor.

First off we do not even know if Tyrion is Tywin's son. There is ample evidence that Mad Aerys raped Joanna Lannister and Tyrion's malform shape is a result of repeated abortion attempts. And Joanna dying during childbirth is also likely a result of her trying to terminate the pregnancy. Also Tyrion dreams of dragons. And secret parentage is the biggest repeated plot point in all of Westeros. Tyrion has whiter hair than normal, freakish shape, and different color eyes. And Tywin repeatedly denies that Tyrion is his.

Tywin dies because of GRRM's big moment style of writing. Where Tywin has no armed guards that hear him arguing with his loosed 'son'. No armed guards that hear Shae scream. No armed guards patrolling the halls. No armed guards in a world where multiple kings and lords have been assassinated. Where are the guards exactly? I always hated Tywin getting killed because of how conveniently empty the Tower of the Hand was. The books use the 'assassination' plot device very often. It works when you have magic killers like shadow babies or faceless men.
There's some really good stuff in Martins books in terms of creative magic, writing and world building. It's - I'd say - about as realistic as LOTR is, but just focuses on different things. The magic, and the myths are inspired by these primeval religions and beliefs of early Europeans, and they really speak to it. Warging, skinwalking, and being a seer are these horrible cursed fates that make you less than a man and more of a beast. Bran had to eat the flesh of his friend to unlock his full potential as a seer; it's grim stuff.
What exactly is unique to Martin? The Others? Ice zombies? That went nowhere in the show so who knows what the books will do. What exactly did he 'create'? When you use the word 'creative' it should mean creating something new or as original as possible. What is new in GRRM versus what is just lifted from other world and authors?

Pretty much all of his magic is just taken from other stories. Modern stories with modern influences. Things like shadow puppets and shadow babies, future seeing, glamors, warging and mind control, dragons, coming back to life, flaming swords, dragonglass candles are just palantirs or crystal balls, magic horns and instruments are ancient. Most of his magic devices and spells have not even been explained nor have they even paid off in the books. How do dragon binding horns work? What are the Others? How do Faceless Men change their faces? Half of his magic devices are mystery box powers. So this whole "GRRM is super realistic" is not great praise when he never realistically explains any of his magic.
 
Sometimes I wonder if the “realism” is something that was pushed by his publisher. Or perhaps he couldn’t decide on his tone because he’s a gardener, so it changed with time. Theres also the possibility that he embraced the “realistic” label because it gave him clout. He just seems to enjoy the fantastical ie fantasy, lovecraftian horror, and super heroes.
The "realistic" part of his story is that ordinary people are put in fantastic situations when they are very flawed and not capable of doing heroic acts. In the average fantasy, the "hero" receives dragons and starts doing good and saving people. That didn't happen with Dany, despite her good intentions. That's what Martin means with "what's Aragon's tax policy?": Dany destroyed the slavers, sure: now she has three cities full of free slaves that can feed themselves and a bunch of former slavers that want to kill her. None of them feel any fear or loyalty towards her nor are impressed by what she did. Here is when people complain about the plot and how Dany should have then gone to Westeros, but she couldn't have gone there with only three baby dragons and no army or any power. She could have been immediately killed. It's tedious because it's exactly what would happen if any random thirteen year old girl ends up in Dany's position.

I like fantasy as well, but sometimes people forget that fantasy characters, even the ones who are meant to represent ordinary people, aren't ordinary at all. Most humans wouldn't do what they do, either out of fear or because they're too stupid. And if you're Quentyn Martell, both.
 
What the hell are you talking about? People make retarded decisions because GRRM writes moronic characters.
Moronic or realistic? Like I said, that's the point of the story: to put non-heroic characters in fantasy situations.

Ned literally tells Cesei his entire plans like a complete dolt to let her get the advantage. This is after she and her family are accused of trying to murder Bran through an assassin, after Joffrey nearly killing Arya in swordplay, killing Sansa's wolf and the butcher's son, Tyrion being taken captive by Cat, and after Jaimie and the Lannister guards nearly kill Ned by stabbing him through his leg. All Ned had to do was seize Cersei's children with his own household guard and then tell Robert and the rest of Westeros why he did it. That would have been the end.
Ned never expected that Robert was going to die and nobody did. Cersei was very lucky. And if Ned didn't do this was because he already saw what Robert did when Rhaegar's kids were killed and how he demanded for Dany to be murdered despite she was then innocent and a girl around Joffrey's same age.

Ned is an idiot. Robb is also an idiot as well. And not honorable. Ned is also a liar who keeps Jon, the real heir to the throne, in secret of his entire lineage and true self. And sends the real heir to the throne....to the Wall like a punishment.
Ned can't prove Jon's Rhaegar's son or couldn't prove it at the moment. And even if he did, read what I wrote above: Robert was going to kill Jon for being Rhaegar's son. Robert took the throne and had support because they all rebelled against the Targaryens. The Targaryens have been removed. Jon has a claim, but he's not the "rightful" heir because they've been removed. The rightful heir was Joffrey to everybody's eyes, but the real rightful heir was Stannis.

Ned basically goes after Cersei for lying about the current heirs to the throne not being from Robert but being from Jaimie. Yet Ned lied to Jon about his parentage and denied him his own rights and lies to everyone else about who Jon is as well. Ned is a liar and loser with no honor.
Like I said, Robert was not going to let the throne go so easily only because the son of the man he hated that much showed up. Robert was also then supported by most Lords of the time: Tywin, Arryn, and Tully. I don't see Doran Martell supporting Jon's claim, tbh and I doubt Ned wanted to get the North in another war. Same thing for the time when the plot happens: you think people don't know that Joffrey was a bastard? They all knew, but they all pretended they didn't because it was convenient for them to side with the Lannisters. That's why they got rid of Joffrey, he isn't important, his crown is and that can be passed to Tommen. who's also a tool to get power. They all are up to their own sake.

In the same way, they can easily ignore Jon's eventual proof of being Rhaegar's son and say it's all made up if it's not covenient for them to believe it. Just like many will believe that Aegon is Rhaegar's son because people WANT to believe he is the real deal.

Westeros isn't our world when you can claim being someone's child and a DNA test proves it. Without Rhaegar being alive to say it, Jon had no way to prove anything to anyone about who his parents were and even if he could, he was in danger to be killed and this would create a fracture between the Throne and the North.

First off we do not even know if Tyrion is Tywin's son. There is ample evidence that Mad Aerys raped Joanna Lannister and Tyrion's malform shape is a result of repeated abortion attempts. And Joanna dying during childbirth is also likely a result of her trying to terminate the pregnancy.
There is zero evidence of any of that. She died because Tyrion was deformed and had a big head, which likely caused more distress to Joanna during labor. There is no evidence of Aerys raping Joanna beyond a joke he said when drunk.


Tywin dies because of GRRM's big moment style of writing. Where Tywin has no armed guards that hear him arguing with his loosed 'son'. No armed guards that hear Shae scream. No armed guards patrolling the halls. No armed guards in a world where multiple kings and lords have been assassinated. Where are the guards exactly? I always hated Tywin getting killed because of how conveniently empty the Tower of the Hand was.
Tywin Lannister was with a whore. That's the reason the tower was empty. Any guard being there was going to see him doing something that he knew nothing could see.
 
What the hell are you talking about? People make retarded decisions because GRRM writes moronic characters. Ned literally tells Cesei his entire plans like a complete dolt to let her get the advantage. This is after she and her family are accused of trying to murder Bran through an assassin, after Joffrey nearly killing Arya in swordplay, killing Sansa's wolf and the butcher's son, Tyrion being taken captive by Cat, and after Jaimie and the Lannister guards nearly kill Ned by stabbing him through his leg. All Ned had to do was seize Cersei's children with his own household guard and then tell Robert and the rest of Westeros why he did it. That would have been the end.
If ned did that, then Robert would have butchered the royal children in a rage. Ned already hates that was done to the Targ children during the war, and likely didn't want the same thing to happen to them. Ned thought that the watch was working for him because of Petyr, he thought that his household guards were good enough when supporting the watch, and thought Robert would back him when he got back from his trip. Ned didn't realise Petyr was fucking with him, didn't see Cersei as an actual threat, and he got killed because of it. Ned miscalculating during a sitution he doesn't have full knowledge of doesn't make him an idiot.

From his perspective, the struggle was over. The only person who was a threat was a woman, with no family nearby to speak of, no army, no combat prowess, and who would - presumably - try and save her children. By all reasonable accounts, Neds move was a good one.
Ned is an idiot. Robb is also an idiot as well. And not honorable. Ned is also a liar who keeps Jon, the real heir to the throne, in secret of his entire lineage and true self. And sends the real heir to the throne....to the Wall like a punishment. Ned basically goes after Cersei for lying about the current heirs to the throne not being from Robert but being from Jaimie. Yet Ned lied to Jon about his parentage and denied him his own rights and lies to everyone else about who Jon is as well. Ned is a liar and loser with no honor.
Robb was 14 at the time, had won multiple major battles, was riding high off of potentially winning the whole war, and was thinking with his cock. He made two real mistakes. 1) Karstarks execution. 2) Ploughing Jeyne Westerling. The first cost him a good portion of his allies, and the second - plus the insults that the Riverlords gave to Walder - cost him his life and army. It doesn't make him an idiot, it makes him an impulsive child that got arrogant.

Jon also isn't the heir to the throne, even putting aside the Lyanna stark stuff. Robert won, the Targ dynasty was destroyed. What was Ned supposed to do? Back the claim of a child that no one but him and maybe three others know is maybe the heir? No one would have gone along with that, Ned would have died, and Jon would have had his head smashed against a wall at the age of three. That's even assuming Jon isn't just a bastard of Rheagars. We don't know if he married Lyanna, and they had a loving child, or if he raped her and left her at the tower of Joy.

There's a world of difference between not pushing for what is essentially a suicidal lost cause against all the people he cares about, after losing his father, brother, sister and possible lover; and being pissed off that the stability of the realm is threatened by Cersei cuckolding the king with her own brother. One of them is a reasonable action, the other is cucking the king with her own brother.

First off we do not even know if Tyrion is Tywin's son. There is ample evidence that Mad Aerys raped Joanna Lannister and Tyrion's malform shape is a result of repeated abortion attempts. And Joanna dying during childbirth is also likely a result of her trying to terminate the pregnancy. Also Tyrion dreams of dragons. And secret parentage is the biggest repeated plot point in all of Westeros. Tyrion has whiter hair than normal, freakish shape, and different color eyes. And Tywin repeatedly denies that Tyrion is his.
I'm not really sure why you brought this up? Yes, he probably is Aery's bastard by rape. That doesn't change that Tywin - as he says - cannot prove Tyrion is not him, and therefore has to act like he is his son. Tywin never denies Tyrion is his son, he simply openly states that he hates Tyrion for killing his mother when being born.

Tywin dies because of GRRM's big moment style of writing. Where Tywin has no armed guards that hear him arguing with his loosed 'son'. No armed guards that hear Shae scream. No armed guards patrolling the halls. No armed guards in a world where multiple kings and lords have been assassinated. Where are the guards exactly? I always hated Tywin getting killed because of how conveniently empty the Tower of the Hand was. The books use the 'assassination' plot device very often. It works when you have magic killers like shadow babies or faceless men.
Tywin didn't have any guards around because he was fucking a whore. A big part of Tywins character is that for as much as he hates Tyrion, he's just like Tyrion. He whores, and he drinks, and he thinks himself smarter than everyone around him. He just doesn't show his vices openly. It's why there's a secret tunnel in his chambers leading to the brothel. Tywin thought he had won, was taking out his petty power game on something that his son loved, and it backfired and got him killed.

What exactly is unique to Martin? The Others? Ice zombies? That went nowhere in the show so who knows what the books will do. What exactly did he 'create'? When you use the word 'creative' it should mean creating something new or as original as possible. What is new in GRRM versus what is just lifted from other world and authors?
They're not ice zombies? The others re described as being almost like fairies. Your definition of 'creative' basically excludes all of human literature except the one or two genre defining works. Shakespeare? Fucking uncreative hack, he stole lifted Hamlet from the Amleth myth. Frankenstein? Did that bitch Shelly ever hear of Prometheus? Modern classic my arse! Victor Hugo just copied down the life of some random prisoner he knew from France, made a few change and boom! Fraud work passed off as literature? It's a strange standard to have. I think the only thing that passes it, would be Epic of Gilgamesh, and weirdly Dragon Riders of Pern because of all the gay teleporting BDSM dragon stuff they have in that.
Pretty much all of his magic is just taken from other stories. Modern stories with modern influences. Things like shadow puppets and shadow babies, future seeing, glamors, warging and mind control, dragons, coming back to life, flaming swords, dragonglass candles are just palantirs or crystal balls, magic horns and instruments are ancient. Most of his magic devices and spells have not even been explained nor have they even paid off in the books. How do dragon binding horns work? What are the Others? How do Faceless Men change their faces? Half of his magic devices are mystery box powers. So this whole "GRRM is super realistic" is not great praise when he never realistically explains any of his magic.
I mean, there's a few issues with this part. Primary one being I said that ASOIF is about as realistic as LOTR, in that it's not realistic. But yes? A story written six thousand years after the advent of human civilisation, by a human, for humans, has things that are influenced by other human stories? Flaming swords are a dime a dozen throughout historical myths, from the Arthurian legends, to the the Nandaka of Indian myths. Crystal balls and devices for magically viewing the distances are in almost every myth from history. I don't feel that 'things that have also happened in other stories being present' is a knock against Martins ability to tell an interesting story.

Explaining your magic is a bad move in my opinion, because it takes all the magic out of it. It makes it mundane, like the power to reach across the kingdoms with some blood and your willpower is just another tool, like a catapult or a sword. It's a personal taste thing, but the idea of sitting down and reading the mechanics of a magic system is retarded for me. Also, we know how the faceless men change faces? Someone comes to the House of black and white, gives their life to the many faced god, the faceless men cut of their face and store it in the vault; when they need it, they drink a magic potion, slice their own face around at the edges and mold the new face onto their head, the blood binds to it and makes them have that persons face.
 
It's not a concern that he might die before he writes the final book. He will die.

He will be 74 in a few weeks. He is fat, he looks really bad. Few more years and that's it.

Valar morghulis.

Sometimes I wonder if the “realism” is something that was pushed by his publisher... He just seems to enjoy the fantastical ie fantasy, lovecraftian horror, and super heroes.

Part of me wonders if he’s just bored with GoT and it’s not his favorite work, just the one that made him rich. His Gardner approach is ok if he was just DMing D&D or Mutants & Masterminds

I didn't know about his thing for D&D, I did know he has a thing about medieval knights, which I assume was backed up by a little reading somewhere along the line. Has everyone here seen his page of models?

 
Valar morghulis.



I didn't know about his thing for D&D, I did know he has a thing about medieval knights, which I assume was backed up by a little reading somewhere along the line. Has everyone here seen his page of models?

His series Wild Cards started from a game session he was dming. I thought he played chainmail and the original d&d. He strikes me as someone that’d prefer 2e.
 
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Fantasy authors who have not sold as many books as Tolkien:

George RR Martin
Michael Moorcock
And Terry Pratchett.

To borrow @Muttnik's theme, three cynical misanthropes unable to topple an author who wrote stories of hope and goodness.

A funny thing, I started going off Pratchett some time after turning 13.
Why are you shitting on Pratchett? He had nothing but respect for Tolkien:
In an interview with The New York Times, Pratchett was asked “Who are your favorite fantasy novelists?” to which he replied:

O.K., I give in. J. R. R. Tolkien. I wrote a letter to him once and got a very nice reply. Just think how busy he would have been, and yet he took the time out to write to a fan.
[1]
In another interview Pratchett wass asked: "Why do you feel uncomfortable with being ahead of Tolkien?" and he replied:

I think Tolkien will be around in a hundred years time but I’m not certain that I will.
[2]
“[W]hen I was young I wrote a letter to J.R.R. Tolkien, just as he was becoming extravagantly famous. I think the book that impressed me was Smith of Wootton Major. Mine must have been among hundreds or thousands of letters he received every week. I got a reply. It might have been dictated. For all I know, it might have been typed to a format. But it was signed. He must have had a sackful of letters from every commune and university in the world, written by people whose children are now grown-up and trying to make a normal life while being named Galadriel or Moonchild. It wasn’t as if I’d said a lot. There were no numbered questions. I just said that I’d enjoyed the book very much. And he said thank you. For a moment, it achieved the most basic and treasured of human communications: you are real, and therefore so am I.”[3]
He also talked about how influential Tolkien has been in modern fantasy in his essay 'Magic Kingdoms':

“J.R.R. Tolkien has become a sort of mountain, appearing in all subsequent fantasy in the way that Mt. Fuji appears so often in Japanese prints. Sometimes it’s big and up close. Sometimes it’s a shape on the horizon. Sometimes it’s not there at all, which means that the artist either has made a deliberate decision against the mountain, which is interesting in itself, or is in fact standing on Mt. Fuji."”[4]
 
AnyballLecter's quote suggests otherwise. This is how we got to this point, remember?

Anyway, Pratchetts series started as a cute satire of fantasy tropes and got stretched out far too long into his personal bully pulpit about any subject under the sun. He needs a little shitting on now and then. Keeps things in perspective.
 
I haven't read any of the books, but checked out the show, because people couldn't shut up about it. Honestly, I got hooked. I think it was pretty solid until after the Red Wedding. After that moment, the plot lost its focus and things quickly fell apart. They should have just ended it right there, with a big "Lannisters win" sign. Didn't help, they ran out of book material and it all turned into a shitshow. Never really cared for Daenerys' B plot misadventures. I have no idea what she is like in the books, but in the show, she seemed like an impulsive mary sue, who always failed upward. The only reason why I waded through the last seasons, is because it was a beautiful trainwreck.
I doubt GoT is going to leave a significant mark on culture. Sure it may be discussed time to time on the internet, but I haven't heard anyone mention it IRL, since the show ended. No one seems to be excited about the spin-offs, I doubt they will enjoy the same mainstream attention the original series got.
 
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