US US Politics General - Discussion of President Biden and other politicians

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Snekposter said:
After her there's always Private Robert Shurtleff Deborah Sampson, Fourth Massachusetts Infantry Regiment. Not exactly very feminine since she spent half her childhood doing farm labor as an indentured servant, but I certainly couldn't pry a musket ball out of my own thigh with a pocketknife and no anesthetic.
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Unfortunately, the degenerates will probably soon try to rewrite history to say Deborah was trans.
 
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Breadbassket said:
Cartels are a criminal plague that have been allowed to fester thanks to corruption and individuals in power acting in a conflict of interest with their own people. Considering how well they fared against the presidential convoy of Guatemala of all things, I think they would suffer badly in the event of a clash with a more how to say "determined" force. If an American president acted with the same bravado they did with drone striking some Islamic jihadist leader with a Mexican cartel boss the problem would sort itself out. Then if push came to a shove and soldiers had to move into Mexico to rip the drug-addled weed from the earth, it wouldn't be the first time something like that happened.
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Yeah that's about what I thought, how do you convince someone who thinks a country would have to become Fascist Italy to accomplish border security that this isn't nearly as expensive and tyrannical as they think it would be?
 
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make_it_so said:
Unfortunately, the degenerates will probably soon try to rewrite history to say Deborah was trans.
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To be fair, she did have an unfortunate face. And an even more unfortunate body.
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Not exactly the best-looking woman. On the bright side this hopefully means no thirstposting... but I'll take a few well-deserved rainbows for that remark.
 
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Meat Target said:
Republicans will stoop to anything, no matter how degrading, to get a single asspat from liberals who hate them.
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Maybe conservatives are just smug liberals who want to feel unique.

Also this happened as well.

Nashville votes down holding 2024 GOP convention, leaving Milwaukee as likely RNC host city (Archive)

Nashville council members on Tuesday night voted down a draft agreement to host the 2024 Republican National Convention, effectively taking Tennessee’s capital city out of the running in its battle with Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to host the GOP’s next presidential nominating convention.

Republican Gov. Bill Lee of Tennessee and Republicans in the state legislature heavily lobbied for Nashville to host the convention, but the city’s Democratic dominated Metro Council voted down the draft agreement. According to numerous local reports, only 10 council members voted in favor, with 22 against and three abstentions.

Milwaukee approved its draft resolution in June, and two weeks ago the Republican National Committee’s (RNC) Site Selection Committee — which oversees the 2024 convention planning — recommended Milwaukee over Nashville.

The committee will make its formal presentation on Thursday to the full RNC membership in a closed session, as the national party committee holds its summer meeting in Chicago. The full RNC membership on Friday will vote in a public session on the Site Selection committee’s recommendation for Milwaukee to host the convention.

Tuesday night’s vote appears to be the final nail in the coffin for Nashville’s chances of hosting the convention. But a source familiar with the RNC’s convention selection process told Fox News following Nashville council vote that "nothing has changed, and the final vote will still be on Friday."

The two national parties often hold their conventions in competitive general election states. While Tennessee is a reliably red state in presidential contests, Wisconsin’s a key battleground.

Earlier this year Salt Lake City, Utah and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania were dropped from contention to host the 2024 GOP convention.

Democratic National Committee officials are continuing to visit the cities hoping to host the Democrats’ 2024 presidential nominating convention. The DNC may announce their choice when they hold their annual summer meeting in early September.
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BONE_Buddy said:
On the Kansas Abortion vote. We have to remember a few things, Democrats pushed a huge amount of money into their get-out-the-vote apparatuses. They used their entire machine in Kansas to push the issue. Meanwhile the pro-life activists which were largely tooled up for lobbying legislators, had to try to compete. The Republican machine, such as it is, really wasn't used. Very little "out of State" Republican money went to Kansas.

Like it or not, it has become a State by State ballot issue like Gun Rights have, and now the Pro-Life side has to re-center around that reality. New voter outreach groups will have to be made, and older pro-life organizations will have to be reformed. It's a new ballgame folks, we just have to deal with it.
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There is a ballot proposition to ban ARs in Oregon in November.

Well if the GOP weren't cucks, could fund gun groups to screw that vote up.

Though it also could be a messaging issue as well since apparently the amendment was to allow the state legislature call the shots on abortion and most people think, the amendment was to ban abortion fully.

Proposition 16 back in the 2020 election in California, where almost every activist group outspent the NO side by a giant scale, and lost in a huge lop sided manner for a state that votes deep blue.

Also here is the map, basically resembles the regular old urban vs rural map.

Screenshot 2022-08-02 224913.png
 
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CarlosDanger said:
Polls closed 5 hours ago in Arizona, and not 1 election day vote has been counted in Maricopa County.
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It is interesting that Pinal county is the most fucked, when Pima and Maricopa are the big fortresses. Maricopa not counting also gives me a bit of a clue.

The Democrats realized that Maricopa was going to be under -intense- scrutiny, and it is. They are trying to see if they can fudge things but it looks bad. They knew this was coming so moved things pre-emptively over to Pinal... but its a new team over there, and they fucked up enough to be way too visible and obvious way too early.
 
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MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
Yeah that's about what I thought, how do you convince someone who thinks a country would have to become Fascist Italy to accomplish border security that this isn't nearly as expensive and tyrannical as they think it would be?
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That is quite the conundrum. I think to convince someone to move from a stance like that would need a gentle approach since the stuff I have stated earlier if said outright would just put some perhaps people off the idea of true border security entirely.

First in terms of cost I would say that despite the fact as of 2021, the budget for the U.S. Border Patrol is nearly $4.9 billion, this is a drop in a bucket to say, the $54 billion spent on Ukraine this year.

As for the "tyrannical" part, the idea on what and what is not tyrannical varies by person. That acknowledgement aside, I would say is a government enforcing its own laws the action of tyrant? Deportation is just how the process works. Is it tyranny to take action against individual actors who due to their status as illegal foreign nations can't be held legally accountable by anyone or anything until they are caught by the host country's authorities?
 
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Breadbassket said:
As for the "tyrannical" part, the idea on what and what is not tyrannical varies by person. That acknowledgement aside, I would say is a government enforcing its own laws the action of tyrant? Deportation is just how the process works. Is it tyranny to take action against individual actors who due to their status as illegal foreign nations can't be held legally accountable by anyone or anything until they are caught by the host country's authorities?
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The act of tyranny they spoke about was the coercive tax collection, I asked if it's possible to have a government that doesn't meddle in the personal lives of citizens while securing the border and he said no, the state has to be managerial to enforce the border, citing Ancient Rome as an example. It's one extreme or the other. I really have no idea how to argue against this other than bringing up the Laffer curve and how people tend to pay more taxes the less they're obligated to, and I've already played that card.
Breadbassket said:
That is quite the conundrum. I think to convince someone to move from a stance like that would need a gentle approach since the stuff I have stated earlier if said outright would just put some perhaps people off the idea of true border security entirely.

First in terms of cost I would say that despite the fact as of 2021, the budget for the U.S. Border Patrol is nearly $4.9 billion, this is a drop in a bucket to say, the $54 billion spent on Ukraine this year.
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I thought about getting into the quagmire of arguing costs but he already made the corruption argument, that if border patrol were underpaid they'd just accept bribes anyway, but then if I argued that I could walk into the territory "corrupt no matter what."
 
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MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
The act of tyranny they spoke about was the coercive tax collection, I asked if it's possible to have a government that doesn't meddle in the personal lives of citizens while securing the border and he said no, the state has to be managerial to enforce the border, citing Ancient Rome as an example. It's one extreme or the other. I really have no idea how to argue against this other than bringing up the Laffer curve and how people tend to pay more taxes the less they're obligated to, and I've already played that card.

I thought about getting into the quagmire of arguing costs but he already made the corruption argument, that if border patrol were underpaid they'd just accept bribes anyway, but then if I argued that I could walk into the territory "corrupt no matter what."
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From what you say, at least to me it sounds like the person you are trying to convince is willing to entertain your thoughts on the matter but will stay firm in their position no matter what until they are proven wrong in one way or another.
 
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MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
Yeah that's about what I thought, how do you convince someone who thinks a country would have to become Fascist Italy to accomplish border security that this isn't nearly as expensive and tyrannical as they think it would be?
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If they are a Libertarian type, introduce them to the works of Hans-Herman Hoppe. If that is too strong for them yet, give them works of Ludwig Von Mises, who is widely palatable and a foundational theorist among "Right-Wing" libertarians, and then Murray Rothbard (particularly his later works.) If your friend is the typical egghead Libertarian theory guy, the above writers/theorist will be able to beat him into submission.

If they aren't a "Taxation is theft, and the government doing anything at all is bad" type, then 75% of your work is done. It simply becomes a task of painting border security in a good light, and equating it with whatever government program they actually like.
 
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BONE_Buddy said:
If they are a Libertarian type, introduce them to the works of Hans-Herman Hoppe. If that is too strong for them yet, give them works of Ludwig Von Mises, who is widely palatable and a foundational theorist among "Right-Wing" libertarians, and then Murray Rothbard (particularly his later works.) If your friend is the typical egghead Libertarian theory guy, the above writers/theorist will be able to beat him into submission.

If they aren't a "Taxation is theft, and the government doing anything at all is bad" type, then 75% of your work is done. It simply becomes a task of painting border security in a good light, and equating it with whatever government program they actually like.
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I'd have to read those first so I could draw quotes or give descriptions, the person in question appears more informed than I am at particular philosophers or just philosophy in general.
 
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