George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

[Oats12345]

I stopped watching the show after the original characters of the retard showrunners became unbearable.
I was also really angry how they handled Stannis, who is probably my favorite book character, next to Jaime.
After a universally hated little OC twat stabbed Jon, and the Bastard of Bolton crushed Stannis with an army of horsemen he pulled out of his ass, I quit and never looked bad.

The show was already so bad at that point, I don't know how much worse it could have gotten.
What exactly did the moronic showrunners do to piss even those with the tolerance to watch until the end off?

Well at least Jon ends up hanging the little OC in the end

 

[TheHarbinger]

I stopped watching the show after the original characters of the retard showrunners became unbearable.

So did a lot of people. But showing back up to watch the last season was the right choice absolutely. Because it lead to being there live for some of the greatest fandom meltdowns in history. Also the leaks constantly happening, entire episodes getting dumped online before their air time, coffee cups on set, cast members being unable to hide their disdain in interviews. It was more entertaining than the actual show.

You should watch the last seasons just to see them at least once. Even the interviews with D&D afterwards created some all time classic moments for showrunners showing no respect to anyone. "Dany just forgot".

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Personally I think first FB movie was fine (by Harry Potter standards) . It avoided many problems of prequels. (This guy will end up here in few years, this guy, because he is not in story this is prequel to is probably dead....). And it was okay selfcontained story. Sequel is shit.

But as I said my standard for "good" Harry Potter is pretty low, because target audience are kids and teens

The movie wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either because it doesn't really have a plot. The movie's based on a companion book and that's equivalent to making a movie about a dictionary. At first, I thought it'd be about the many adventures of the guy trying to discover new magical beasts, but it was about Grindewald and Scamander is just around because he's well connected. Then they added political shenanigans, babies being switched, mind rape, black bastards, and a gay romance. And a lot of diversity. See how people say Seinfeld is about nothing? I disagree: it's about four assholes being friends. This movie is indeed about nothing at all. Seinfeld has Seinfeld in the title, it's about him and his friends: this movie says it's about Fantastic Beasts but it's about Grindewald and a bunch of other people.

Well at least Jon ends up hanging the little OC in the end

I get what you say, but that's the main problem with GoT and "realism". They say it doesn't matter because the villain is killed and nothing else matter. Sure, for real life, but this is a controlled universe and readers/watchers deserve a better payoff. In that case, then make the villain die choking eating chicken.

Just to keep with the HP example, Rowling's also bad at this: you have Bellatrix Lestrange being the one torturing Neville's parents, something that sets up the kind of person Neville is through the books. So, who kills her? Molly Wesley. You have to be fucking kidding me with that.

 

[Oats12345]

The movie wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either because it doesn't really have a plot. The movie's based on a companion book and that's equivalent to making a movie about a dictionary. At first, I thought it'd be about the many adventures of the guy trying to discover new magical beasts, but it was about Grindewald and Scamander is just around because he's well connected. Then they added political shenanigans, babies being switched, mind rape, black bastards, and a gay romance. And a lot of diversity. See how people say Seinfeld is about nothing? I disagree: it's about four assholes being friends. This movie is indeed about nothing at all. Seinfeld has Seinfeld in the title, it's about him and his friends: this movie says it's about Fantastic Beasts but it's about Grindewald and a bunch of other people.


I get what you say, but that's the main problem with GoT and "realism". They say it doesn't matter because the villain is killed and nothing else matter. Sure, for real life, but this is a controlled universe and readers/watchers deserve a better payoff. In that case, then make the villain die choking eating chicken.

Just to keep with the HP example, Rowling's also bad at this: you have Bellatrix Lestrange being the one torturing Neville's parents, something that sets up the kind of person Neville is through the books. So, who kills her? Molly Wesley. You have to be fucking kidding me with that.

I agree Bellatrix death should have been different

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Just to keep with the HP example, Rowling's also bad at this: you have Bellatrix Lestrange being the one torturing Neville's parents, something that sets up the kind of person Neville is through the books. So, who kills her? Molly Wesley. You have to be fucking kidding me with that.

I felt it works because it's a character who's infamous for killing a parent being killed by the most positive example of a parent in the series. Meanwhile I don't remember Neville interacting with her, and you can say that he won against her for having a future with his friends instead of going for revenge.

If we're speaking of subversions, was it ever confirmed who was the real "chosen one"? Since it's nice two characters fit that role and there isn't any subversion of one doing nothing or becoming evil.

Also fantastic beasts should have like a 90 minute documentary with some gags sprinkled in.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

The collapse of GOT and by extension ASOIAF has got to be one of the most entertaining pop cultural meltdowns of all time, and we have George to thank for it so for that I salute him.

He also gets waaaaay too much credit for his worldbuilding. Westeros does not make sense *at all.* Really, George? Everything has been the same for thousands of years? The same language, the same religions, the same social structure? No plagues, no technological breakthroughs, no political upheaval, no foreign invasions pre-Targaryens? No significant cultural interchange with the large, densely-populated continent right next door? When the terrifying endless winter arrives, no one ever thinks to just head to Essos which apparently doesn't have this issue? Everything's just in stasis? Okay.

And yeah, sorry, the guy's got a really weird fixation on extreme sexual violence, brother-sister incest, and castration.

Something I think begs to be ask is where are the major smallfolk characters that represent what's truly good and just in ASOIAF? For someone whose attempting to write a series of books that is a scathing critic of feudalism and monarchism, we really don't see too many commoner characters that are truly major characters that aren't equally bastardish like the rest in the land. Hell it seems people on Westeros don't value anything outside of themselves which is quite backwards given feudal society was community driven first and foremost.

He really seems to think that the peasant class are just a bunch of dumb animals who accept their oppression and have never thought to overthrow the ruling class unless they have a member of the nobility leading them. They're just completely irrelevant to the story unless they're being raped or abused for the reader's entertainment.

For someone who claims to be "a student of history" he seems completely unaware that underclass uprisings are a constant throughout history. It doesn't matter if you're the Old Kingdom of Egypt and your society is built around the concept of the ruler being literally god, if people are hungry or mistreated they're gonna start setting shit on fire eventually.

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

I can't help but feel a little smug over those people years back saying "ASOIAF is way better than LOTR! You never know who's gonna die next and it has tits and gore! LOTR is lame shit for babies! At last we have fantasy for adults!" News flash: Putting whores in your story doesn't make it mature and serious. If it did, we'd be giving Frank Miller Nobel Prizes for Literature. Works with adult content can be mature, but they need to have good writing and good characters, something that the showrunners for Game of Thrones forgot.

I don't even understand why people thought Game of Thrones was so groundbreaking. "Ooh! It kills off characters! No one is safe!" Hell, anime was doing that shit back in the 1990s. It was doing sex and gore, too. AND gory hardcore fantasy. The Berserk manga was started in 1989. So when someone comes along and says "I can't believe GoT cut the good guy's head off!" I can only shrug and say "Yeah, but does his best friend turn into a dark god and rape his girlfriend in front of him? "

He really seems to think that the peasant class are just a bunch of dumb animals who accept their oppression and have never thought to overthrow the ruling class unless they have a member of the nobility leading them. They're just completely irrelevant to the story unless they're being raped or abused for the reader's entertainment.

GRRM is a gamma male who thinks government is all powerful, that it's a good thing, and he wants to be a member of the ruling class. His ideal society is one where everyone needs the Gobermint to save them. Hence, the reason why poors aren't allowed to take their destinies into their own hands.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

And yeah, sorry, the guy's got a really weird fixation on extreme sexual violence, brother-sister incest, and castration.

But worldbuilding doesn't matter. What people want to read about is very detailed descriptions of penises.

The shy worm in his pants transformed into a giant hungry snake. It had the color of strawberry milk, little droplets of precum fell onto the wooden floor.

No wonder why his next book is taking so long. Imagine having to write hundreds of penis descriptions & whorehouse scenes.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

He also gets waaaaay too much credit for his worldbuilding. Westeros does not make sense *at all.* Really, George? Everything has been the same for thousands of years? The same language, the same religions, the same social structure? No plagues, no technological breakthroughs, no political upheaval, no foreign invasions pre-Targaryens? No significant cultural interchange with the large, densely-populated continent right next door? When the terrifying endless winter arrives, no one ever thinks to just head to Essos which apparently doesn't have this issue? Everything's just in stasis? Okay.

You're misinformed, since all of that is mentioned in the books to a degree. IIRC, the original inhabitants of Westeros are the people who worshipped in those sacred groves, but outside of the North they were conquered by invaders from Essos who brought with them the Faith of the Seven along with founding the seven kingdoms. These kingdoms fought amongst each other before they were conquered by the Targaryens and their dragons. It's basically like Britain where the North would be the Celts, the invaders the Anglo-Saxons, and the Targaryens the Normans.

Obviously Westeros isn't and never was in stasis, it's just GRRM never fleshes out the pre-Targaryen era much outside of geneologies, myths, and some descriptions of the characters who fought/surrendered to the Targaryens. He also puts the world's history in the perspective of characters from the current era so it's not really any different than how medieval Europeans pictured the Roman Empire or even Biblical Israel as much like their own times. The language thing is admittedly pretty bad though since Westeros given its size and diversity of people who settled there should be as linguistically diverse as Europe, the Middle East, and India combined, but I guess we needed to know more about King Robert's penis tax policy.

He really seems to think that the peasant class are just a bunch of dumb animals who accept their oppression and have never thought to overthrow the ruling class unless they have a member of the nobility leading them. They're just completely irrelevant to the story unless they're being raped or abused for the reader's entertainment.

There's like one or two peasant revolts portrayed in the books, although one is a mob of city folk who rise up and although crushed, do succeed at raping a noblewoman and I think killing one or two named minor characters, but obviously the rape is given more attention to the story since GRRM loves rape.

 

[Divine right to rule]

It just dawns on me, for such a staunch leftist he sure as hell completely ignores the lives of the smallfolk.
We don't know how they live, how densely populated Westeros is, how and what they farm, what the morality that the church preaches is....
We have never even seen a village in any detail.

 

[TheHarbinger]

Apparently the House of the Dying plot for the entire season has been leaked down to the finale. Freefolk has it and HBO already DMCA'd various social media posts. They are going to be retconning the White Walkers storylines heavily both in the shows and the book universes to try to make up for the ending of Game of Thrones (and likely the main ASOIAF books). Expect some heavy handed references to the last season of Game of Thrones to try to overwrite the disastrous finale.

*Spoilers*

The major retcon is that the Targaryens knew about the White Walkers for hundreds of years and passed down the information secretly only from King to King. And that the threat of the Walkers was known by every single Targaryen King from the time of Aegon the Conqueror possibly until Mad Aeys and Rhaegar. This information was never written properly down nor told to the masses else despite its extreme importance and apocalyptic ramifications. It was then lost, possibly in Robert's Rebellion, when the Targaryen dynasty began collapsing. Hence why it was never mentioned once in ASOIAF main series nor in Game of Thrones.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Apparently the House of the Dying plot for the entire season has been leaked down to the finale. Freefolk has it and HBO already DMCA'd various social media posts. They are going to be retconning the White Walkers storylines heavily both in the shows and the book universes to try to make up for the ending of Game of Thrones (and likely the main ASOIAF books). Expect some heavy handed references to the last season of Game of Thrones to try to overwrite the disastrous finale.

*Spoilers*

The major retcon is that the Targaryens knew about the White Walkers for hundreds of years and passed down the information secretly only from King to King. And that the threat of the Walkers was known by every single Targaryen King from the time of Aegon the Conqueror possibly until Mad Aeys and Rhaegar. This information was never written properly down nor told to the masses else despite its extreme importance and apocalyptic ramifications. It was then lost, possibly in Robert's Rebellion, when the Targaryen dynasty began collapsing. Hence why it was never mentioned once in ASOIAF main series nor in Game of Thrones.

I am so done with this trash to be honest. Maybe the fat slob should get a ghostwriter and be done with it, and none of his would be necessary.

 

[Ishtar]

It just dawns on me, for such a staunch leftist he sure as hell completely ignores the lives of the smallfolk.
We don't know how they live, how densely populated Westeros is, how and what they farm, what the morality that the church preaches is....
We have never even seen a village in any detail.

Not exactly, he portrays them as passive and abused, except when they need to be outraged. Somehow they tolerate primae noctis(something which canonically exists until relatively recently and Roose implies still exists in remote areas of the north), and as unrealistic conscripts. Take the broken man speech-apparently peasants with pitchforks were used during the ninepenny kings war-that is an offensive expedition launched by the Targaryen dynasty to pre empt another blackfyre attack(this time with mercenary and free city backing). Not knights, or men at arms or professional urban militia, literal peasants.

I'm sorry what? Peasants would never be used for that sort of operation, not in any age in history because its fucking wasteful. Sending terrified men in sackcloth with scythes against Golden Company knights is just throwing resources away.

Edmure Tully is considered a soft pussy for protecting his people-even by such supposedly savvy operators as Catelyn. That's the obligation a feudal lord has-especially when chevauchee warfare is being waged, he is obligated to defend them as they work his lands and sustain his income.

There is next to no merchant or burgher class-Littlefinger is just parvenu nobility, we see the Antler men which are both stannis supporters(and also implied to be on LF's payroll so Varys is fine with Tyrion getting rid of them), and maybe a few guilds. The alchemist guild which deals in specialized wildfire, and maybe other I'm forgetting. Somehow there aren't dozens of guilds in King;s landing all vying for Robert's attention and favor. The Maesters have no direct historical analogue, and the religion is utterly clawless, that is until Cersei lets it have soldiers again. Somehow it doesn't possess enough spiritual power to rally people against Robb Stark-a tree worshipping barbarian or Stannis an apostate fire demon worshipper who consorts with a foreign witch. Or punish the Freys who break sacred oaths to commit a massacre during a wedding.

The Lords' paramount are basically kings of their respective realms, somehow Daeron II never centralized power in the crown's hands after the blackfyre rebellion, somehow the targaryens never used their dragons to get concessions from the nobles, and allowed them to be basically autonomous, except to pay taxes to a guy in King's Landing.

Somehow on a continent the size of south america a dornishman and a westerman can understand each other when europeans in 1400 would have been unable to understand people even closer.

There are a lot of worldbuilding aspects which simply don't work.

The major retcon is that the Targaryens knew about the White Walkers for hundreds of years and passed down the information secretly only from King to King. And that the threat of the Walkers was known by every single Targaryen King from the time of Aegon the Conqueror possibly until Mad Aeys and Rhaegar. This information was never written properly down nor told to the masses else despite its extreme importance and apocalyptic ramifications. It was then lost, possibly in Robert's Rebellion, when the Targaryen dynasty began collapsing. Hence why it was never mentioned once in ASOIAF main series nor in Game of Thrones.

What...the fuck. Maybe Rhaegar had visions, maybe Aegon or his immediate ancestors did. That motivated them but even that is vague and ambiguous. There is...literally no indication in the books, ASOIAF or fire and blood or the dunk and egg series this is the case. Like...what?

How exactly does this retcon the show? Or improve it all? Its just supremely stupid.

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

You're misinformed, since all of that is mentioned in the books to a degree. IIRC, the original inhabitants of Westeros are the people who worshipped in those sacred groves, but outside of the North they were conquered by invaders from Essos who brought with them the Faith of the Seven along with founding the seven kingdoms. These kingdoms fought amongst each other before they were conquered by the Targaryens and their dragons. It's basically like Britain where the North would be the Celts, the invaders the Anglo-Saxons, and the Targaryens the Normans.

Obviously Westeros isn't and never was in stasis, it's just GRRM never fleshes out the pre-Targaryen era much outside of geneologies, myths, and some descriptions of the characters who fought/surrendered to the Targaryens. He also puts the world's history in the perspective of characters from the current era so it's not really any different than how medieval Europeans pictured the Roman Empire or even Biblical Israel as much like their own times. The language thing is admittedly pretty bad though since Westeros given its size and diversity of people who settled there should be as linguistically diverse as Europe, the Middle East, and India combined, but I guess we needed to know more about King Robert's penis tax policy.

There's like one or two peasant revolts portrayed in the books, although one is a mob of city folk who rise up and although crushed, do succeed at raping a noblewoman and I think killing one or two named minor characters, but obviously the rape is given more attention to the story since GRRM loves rape.

It should be as linguistically diverse as the UK *now*, which has 14 different recognized indigenous languages, to say nothing of the area during the Roman period or the Norman period. But apparently in this completely decentralized society, a peasant from Winterfell can travel all the way to Sunspear and never meet a person they can't speak to or encounter cultural practices significantly different from their own beyond some vaguely defined and apparently not very important religious details.

It's all just simplistic as hell, is my point, and the whole "through the eyes of the characters" thing is just a handwave so that GRRM doesn't actually have to commit to anything. Even in the "present day," situations are set up but rarely followed to their logical conclusion. Noble families are unrealistically small and don't seem to discipline each other. The nobility don't have a monopoly on violence since there are no armies beyond what an individual noble can raise ad-hoc via their bannermen, so they aren't providing any stability or self-defense. I don't recall any concept of noblesse oblige existing among the Westerosi except for *maybe* House Stark distributing food during winters. But the smallfolk are all dumb rapey animals who don't know what they want, so they're apparently incapable of getting together, realizing they don't actually benefit from this arrangement, and cutting their local lord's throat in his sleep and continuing on as they were before without having to pay tribute to some rich shithead who doesn't give them anything in return beyond occasionally hunting them for sport.

Then there's the issue of the Iron Islanders, whose entire culture is literally based around rape and pillage. Sorry, but under no circumstances would the rest of Westeros tolerate a force as destabilizing as them, nor would they count them as a "kingdom" worth being treated as equal to everyone else. (And before you say But They're Vikings, the Vikings themselves didn't base their entire culture around rape and pillage, either.)

And of course there's the absolute mess that is the Targaryens, who somehow never left any cultural footprint on Westeros despite centuries of rule. The Norman Invasion changed England on every imaginable level. Westeros should be awash in Valyrian culture. There should be people who speak Valyrian, follow the Valyrian religion, and identify as Valyrian due to the influence of their former rulers, and who long for the return of the good old days when they were ruled by civilized people. There should be close diplomatic ties to the Free Cities, which are basically Valyrian rump states. But no, after the last Targaryen was brutally murdered things apparently just snapped right back to the way they were before Aegon.

 

[ShittlerNiggler]

He also gets waaaaay too much credit for his worldbuilding. Westeros does not make sense *at all.* Really, George? Everything has been the same for thousands of years? The same language, the same religions, the same social structure? No plagues, no technological breakthroughs, no political upheaval, no foreign invasions pre-Targaryens? No significant cultural interchange with the large, densely-populated continent right next door? When the terrifying endless winter arrives, no one ever thinks to just head to Essos which apparently doesn't have this issue? Everything's just in stasis? Okay.

Some other examples of his shitty world building would be:

• The same family rule for centuries with almost no major crisis
• Fantasy vikings live on small shithole islands but not only manage to completely sustain themselves without raiding but also had enough troops to take on the rest of Westeros
• Some random priest and his rogue noble get the ability to resurrect people but people still don't know that magic can be real
• The dothraki destroy all the livestock and food of their enemies instead of just taking it despite their home lands having almost no food
• Stannis army having no major food crisis staying in a tundra region and logistics not existing
• The entire eastern continent doing almost absolutely nothing during a huge conflict on an entire continent right next to theirs with the exception of a mercenary army that get's hired by noble people from Westeros instead of the very rich city states.

Most of these issues wouldn't even bother me if GRRM and his fans didn't start with their "muh realism", "muh grim dark universe" and "universe is so mature because dark stuff"

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

Some other examples of his shitty world building would be:

• The same family rule for centuries with almost no major crisis
• Fantasy vikings live on small shithole islands but not only manage to completely sustain themselves without raiding but also had enough troops to take on the rest of Westeros
• Some random priest and his rogue noble get the ability to resurrect people but people still don't know that magic can be real
• The dothraki destroy all the livestock and food of their enemies instead of just taking it despite their home lands having almost no food
• Stannis army having no major food crisis staying in a tundra region and logistics not existing
• The entire eastern continent doing almost absolutely nothing during a huge conflict on an entire continent right next to theirs with the exception of a mercenary army that get's hired by noble people from Westeros instead of the very rich city states.

Most of these issues wouldn't even bother me if GRRM and his fans didn't start with their "muh realism", "muh grim dark universe" and "universe is so mature because dark stuff"

Here's one: There's apparently no afterlife, as reported by resurrected people, but this doesn't discredit religion or cause ripples of social upheaval throughout the population, nor does it particularly bother any characters who hear about it.

 

[Oats12345]

It should be as linguistically diverse as the UK *now*, which has 14 different recognized indigenous languages, to say nothing of the area during the Roman period or the Norman period. But apparently in this completely decentralized society, a peasant from Winterfell can travel all the way to Sunspear and never meet a person they can't speak to or encounter cultural practices significantly different from their own beyond some vaguely defined and apparently not very important religious details.

It's all just simplistic as hell, is my point, and the whole "through the eyes of the characters" thing is just a handwave so that GRRM doesn't actually have to commit to anything. Even in the "present day," situations are set up but rarely followed to their logical conclusion. Noble families are unrealistically small and don't seem to discipline each other. The nobility don't have a monopoly on violence since there are no armies beyond what an individual noble can raise ad-hoc via their bannermen, so they aren't providing any stability or self-defense. I don't recall any concept of noblesse oblige existing among the Westerosi except for *maybe* House Stark distributing food during winters. But the smallfolk are all dumb rapey animals who don't know what they want, so they're apparently incapable of getting together, realizing they don't actually benefit from this arrangement, and cutting their local lord's throat in his sleep and continuing on as they were before without having to pay tribute to some rich shithead who doesn't give them anything in return beyond occasionally hunting them for sport.

Then there's the issue of the Iron Islanders, whose entire culture is literally based around rape and pillage. Sorry, but under no circumstances would the rest of Westeros tolerate a force as destabilizing as them, nor would they count them as a "kingdom" worth being treated as equal to everyone else. (And before you say But They're Vikings, the Vikings themselves didn't base their entire culture around rape and pillage, either.)

And of course there's the absolute mess that is the Targaryens, who somehow never left any cultural footprint on Westeros despite centuries of rule. The Norman Invasion changed England on every imaginable level. Westeros should be awash in Valyrian culture. There should be people who speak Valyrian, follow the Valyrian religion, and identify as Valyrian due to the influence of their former rulers, and who long for the return of the good old days when they were ruled by civilized people. There should be close diplomatic ties to the Free Cities, which are basically Valyrian rump states. But no, after the last Targaryen was brutally murdered things apparently just snapped right back to the way they were before Aegon.

It's laughable too. When you relaize Tolkien later made a very detailed backstory for Lord of The Rings. Well Martin can't seem to write any big history lore other than how many whores a character fucked before how big their dicks are.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

It should be as linguistically diverse as the UK *now*, which has 14 different recognized indigenous languages, to say nothing of the area during the Roman period or the Norman period. But apparently in this completely decentralized society, a peasant from Winterfell can travel all the way to Sunspear and never meet a person they can't speak to or encounter cultural practices significantly different from their own beyond some vaguely defined and apparently not very important religious details.

We don't actually see peasants doing that, and I think the nobles are said to speak a lingua franca of sorts which is why they can understand each other. The religion thing is very weird tpo since it's stated in the past the invaders from the other continent dealt with all the tree worshippers but then I guess they stopped at the North and more or less co-exist with them. It feels like there's a lot missing, especially since we do encounter Faith of the Seven fanatics and the fire worshipping cult is obviously intolerant toward other religions. For this and other reasons, GRRM's worldbuilding isn't bad, it's just annoyingly inconsistent about what he details out and what he leaves vague and underexplored.

Then there's the issue of the Iron Islanders, whose entire culture is literally based around rape and pillage. Sorry, but under no circumstances would the rest of Westeros tolerate a force as destabilizing as them, nor would they count them as a "kingdom" worth being treated as equal to everyone else. (And before you say But They're Vikings, the Vikings themselves didn't base their entire culture around rape and pillage, either.)

While you are correct about them being highly exaggerated Vikings, the Iron Islanders are also very powerful and once ruled a much larger kingdom, so it makes sense why they'd be treated as equals. It just doesn't make sense why their culture of raiding hadn't totally decayed in the centuries since the Targaryens dealt with them. You can't "pay the iron price" for anything if the king sends an army/a fucking dragon to string them up. I think it's a similar issue to the Dothraki where Gurm just transplanted a badass culture without trying to figure out how they really worked.

And of course there's the absolute mess that is the Targaryens, who somehow never left any cultural footprint on Westeros despite centuries of rule. The Norman Invasion changed England on every imaginable level. Westeros should be awash in Valyrian culture. There should be people who speak Valyrian, follow the Valyrian religion, and identify as Valyrian due to the influence of their former rulers, and who long for the return of the good old days when they were ruled by civilized people. There should be close diplomatic ties to the Free Cities, which are basically Valyrian rump states. But no, after the last Targaryen was brutally murdered things apparently just snapped right back to the way they were before Aegon.

I'm pretty sure the books cover this in some form, and of course unlike Normandy, Old Valyria was destroyed and there were never a large number of Valyrians present in Westeros (outside of the island Stannis ruled from).

The same family rule for centuries with almost no major crisis

The Blackfyre Rebellion and associated pretender revolts are referred to numerous times, and Martin spends a lot of time in the later books talking about the War of the Ninepenny Kings (decades before the book).

The entire eastern continent doing almost absolutely nothing during a huge conflict on an entire continent right next to theirs with the exception of a mercenary army that get's hired by noble people from Westeros instead of the very rich city states.

Why would they? They have their own affairs to worry about, their mercenaries are happy, and besides, the Iron Bank of Braavos is referred to be financing all the bullshit that goes on in Westeros during the war. I do agree Essos feels very underdeveloped compared to Westeros. They clearly have some relevance to the story but you barely hear about their own history.

 

[Absolutego]

The show was already so bad at that point, I don't know how much worse it could have gotten.
What exactly did the moronic showrunners do to piss even those with the tolerance to watch until the end off?

It started with the Long Night lasting exactly 1 extremely dark and hard to see episode, that ended with Arya singlehandedly killing the Night King with the Valyrian Dagger from season 1.
It continued with Dany snapping and deciding to burn King's Landing to the ground because church bells apparently activated her Targaryen madness.
It ended with her becoming Westeros Hitler and Jon stabbing her in front of the Iron Throne. And Bran becoming King because (and I quote) "Who has a better story?"

Basically they fucked with the favorite character of all the Yaas Queen bitches who watched the show with their girlfriends and soybeard spouses in bars, after seven seasons of the show framing all the other times she burned shit down that was in her way as heroic and empowering. Terrible mistake.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

What...the fuck. Maybe Rhaegar had visions, maybe Aegon or his immediate ancestors did. That motivated them but even that is vague and ambiguous. There is...literally no indication in the books, ASOIAF or fire and blood or the dunk and egg series this is the case. Like...what?

How exactly does this retcon the show? Or improve it all? Its just supremely stupid.

I would assume this is all to set up the John Snow show to "fix" the colossal fuck up that was The Long Night in Game of Thrones.

They need to re-establish that Rhaegar worked off prophecy and such. They can't have a flash forward to show his thoughts/intentions. They need to establish that it was always a prophecy known only to Targs so they can explain why he took Lyanna and had a child with her. The so called prince that was promised, which I can't for the life of me ever actually remembering being brought up in the GoT show at all.

HBO and Martin will claim this *isn't* a retcon, because I think Martin has always had some strange story about how Rhaegar gave zero shits about fighting until he suddenly started becoming obsessed with prophecy and learning to fight. They will claim that moment was when he was told the prophecy from the Mad King or whatever.

So when Bran inevitably reveals this to John in his show, it won't seem like it came out of nowhere and/or give all three shows some feeble "it's all connected" moment.

And then they can have John Snow fight the *real* Nights King or whatever and *really* save the world from the *real* long night.