George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Really if those massive winters (aren't they more like ice age? How do you even calculate a year?) were a standard thing then you'd have most of the agricultural plants and animals survive pretty much every temperature since evolution would make everything else die in that huge span of time.

I always read it as the world of ASOIAF being a planet on a very elliptical orbit so long summers/long winters and the fact it still has Earth creatures/plants/humans (minus the dragons and some other oddities) as being the fantastic part, but apparently Martin claims the planet's orbit is normal and the actual reason is because of some magic he has yet to reveal (i.e. will never reveal because I read this like 10 years ago and Winds of Winter still isn't out).

Some animals, fish, and plants could probably survive that since the sun doesn't go away, plants can hibernate beneath the snow (it's warmer there than above the snow), and animals can dig in the snow and eat the plants. But humans would be fucked since all they could do is utilize whatever small animals they hunt and plants they can get at (like tree bark). It's hardcore survival shit and there's no way Westeros (except maybe Dorne/southernmost parts of the Reach) should have a civilization any more than the Wildlings have.

My main problem. Was Martin being a sit head with Aragon becoming king in Lord of the Rings. "What's his tax policy?"

Yet in his story a cripple dude becomes king just on the spot.

Also I don't here anyone talk about tax policies in Game of Thrones or his books just noting but sex and incest. How shocking it is because it kills characters at random. When in reality it's just George realizing he wrote too many characters and needs to get raid of them somehow.

If George replaced all the scenes of people fucking whores and getting raped with scenes of all the rulers/would be rulers discussing tax policy, then he'd be a lot closer to being the American Tolkien.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Some animals, fish, and plants could probably survive that since the sun doesn't go away, plants can hibernate beneath the snow (it's warmer there than above the snow), and animals can dig in the snow and eat the plants. But humans would be fucked since all they could do is utilize whatever small animals they hunt and plants they can get at (like tree bark). It's hardcore survival shit and there's no way Westeros (except maybe Dorne/southernmost parts of the Reach) should have a civilization any more than the Wildlings have.

From a quick google search, at least in our world animals won't be able to hibernate for more than a year, and even that's dependent on massively gorging themselves before winter strikes. Ditto plants will probably start getting damaged after a year. Having some animals dig through the snow and eat plants is even more bizarre since that would mean that by the end of the winter very few plants are left and ther ewould be total ecological collapse. And that's ignoring bugs who's life expectancy is less than the average winter. If it was an alien world I would have justified it, but (not)Europe is ridiculous.

And having the winter be magical is even more of a plothole since that means the first long winter would have fucking killed everything. If humanity had foreknowledge maybe it would have survived but quickly succumbed due to the lack of food.

 

[Oats12345]

I always read it as the world of ASOIAF being a planet on a very elliptical orbit so long summers/long winters and the fact it still has Earth creatures/plants/humans (minus the dragons and some other oddities) as being the fantastic part, but apparently Martin claims the planet's orbit is normal and the actual reason is because of some magic he has yet to reveal (i.e. will never reveal because I read this like 10 years ago and Winds of Winter still isn't out).

Some animals, fish, and plants could probably survive that since the sun doesn't go away, plants can hibernate beneath the snow (it's warmer there than above the snow), and animals can dig in the snow and eat the plants. But humans would be fucked since all they could do is utilize whatever small animals they hunt and plants they can get at (like tree bark). It's hardcore survival shit and there's no way Westeros (except maybe Dorne/southernmost parts of the Reach) should have a civilization any more than the Wildlings have.

If George replaced all the scenes of people fucking whores and getting raped with scenes of all the rulers/would be rulers discussing tax policy, then he'd be a lot closer to being the American Tolkien.

Your most likely right if Geroge had focus more on the actual politics of Westeros. He actually would be similar to Tolkien. Since Tolkien's works tend to be more dialogue driven and that he actually covers alot of the inner politics of Middle Earth. The movies kind of cut alot of that out.

So it's always weird to me that Geroge's works are considered more realistic just because he has Dicks and boobs in his story.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

Your most likely right if Geroge had focus more on the actual politics of Westeros. He actually would be similar to Tolkien. Since Tolkien's works tend to be more dialogue driven and that he actually covers alot of the inner politics of Middle Earth. The movies kind of cut alot of that out.

So it's always weird to me that Geroge's works are considered more realistic just because he has Dicks and boobs in his story.

Yeah, I remember how Rohan had its own language and they were heavily implied to have once been more barbaric. Which is why a lot of the hill men hated them and joined Saruman to fight them at Helm’s Deep. They also were surprised that Aragorn could understand them. I don’t remember the exact dialogue but what I liked about that segment of the second book is that it emphasized that humans uniting against Sauron wasn’t an assured thing and that much of their history was spent fighting each other. The Rohirrim weren’t saints.

The second book, as I recall, made it clear there wasn’t a guarantee that they’d help Gondor, they could’ve fallen to the enemy, which would have fucked Gondor over. Their king was literally a puppet and a significant portion of their army was purged/exiled for fighting against Saruman.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

From a quick google search, at least in our world animals won't be able to hibernate for more than a year, and even that's dependent on massively gorging themselves before winter strikes. Ditto plants will probably start getting damaged after a year. Having some animals dig through the snow and eat plants is even more bizarre since that would mean that by the end of the winter very few plants are left and ther ewould be total ecological collapse. And that's ignoring bugs who's life expectancy is less than the average winter. If it was an alien world I would have justified it, but (not)Europe is ridiculous.

Duh, didn't think of that. I guess all you have is trees then. Bark bread was historically important in many tribal societies and adds nutrition if prepared right. Too bad people would be competing with animals and insects that eat tree bark.

And having the winter be magical is even more of a plothole since that means the first long winter would have fucking killed everything. If humanity had foreknowledge maybe it would have survived but quickly succumbed due to the lack of food.

IIRC GRRM kept his explanation vague enough so you can speculate society evolved around it because the magic was so long ago they hadn't invented farming yet and we've established that plants/animals can hibernate longer than our world or whatever.

Your most likely right if Geroge had focus more on the actual politics of Westeros. He actually would be similar to Tolkien. Since Tolkien's works tend to be more dialogue driven and that he actually covers alot of the inner politics of Middle Earth. The movies kind of cut alot of that out.

So it's always weird to me that Geroge's works are considered more realistic just because he has Dicks and boobs in his story.

Tolkien focused on different angles of the politics, like he mostly glossed over the huge diversity of nobles and their competing interests a society like Gondor or the various realms in the Silmarillion would have. GRRM has all of that, but outside of a few events his world doesn't feel it has the depth of history Tolkien put into Middle Earth and important areas like Essos are glossed over, even if for Westeros stuff he usually gives the reader what they need to establish the proper context (i.e. why the North might want to rebel etc.).

 

[Oats12345]

Yeah, I remember how Rohan had its own language and they were heavily implied to have once been more barbaric. Which is why a lot of the hill men hated them and joined Saruman to fight them at Helm’s Deep. They also were surprised that Aragorn could understand them. I don’t remember the exact dialogue but what I liked about that segment of the second book is that it emphasized that humans uniting against Sauron wasn’t an assured thing and that much of their history was spent fighting each other. The Rohirrim weren’t saints.

The second book, as I recall, made it clear there wasn’t a guarantee that they’d help Gondor, they could’ve fallen to the enemy, which would have fucked Gondor over. Their king was literally a puppet and a significant portion of their army was purged/exiled for fighting against Saruman.

Exactly hell Lord of the Rings did the whole " there is a greater threat out there, but men are too bissy fighting their own petty scribbles to see it clearly" before Game of Thrones. And even than I'm pretty sure Geroge said that white walkers equal climate change" for ass points Than anything.

 

[Agarathium1066]

Yeah, I remember how Rohan had its own language and they were heavily implied to have once been more barbaric. Which is why a lot of the hill men hated them and joined Saruman to fight them at Helm’s Deep. They also were surprised that Aragorn could understand them. I don’t remember the exact dialogue but what I liked about that segment of the second book is that it emphasized that humans uniting against Sauron wasn’t an assured thing and that much of their history was spent fighting each other. The Rohirrim weren’t saints.

The second book, as I recall, made it clear there wasn’t a guarantee that they’d help Gondor, they could’ve fallen to the enemy, which would have fucked Gondor over. Their king was literally a puppet and a significant portion of their army was purged/exiled for fighting against Saruman.

None of the human nations were ever really saints, they all spawned their hare of ambitious or evil people. The Hillmen hate the people of Rohan because they eventually drove them out of their old lands when they went to war or allied with other enemies of them. It's a long ancestral grudge that was kept up throughout history. Much like how the Eorlings despise the Easterling tribes due to one conquering and enslaving their original homeland to the east.

It's due to that history that they're long term allies of Gondor, the land they came to live in that is now Rohan was given to them after mutual aid between the two nations. Were the acts of evil men, orcs, and other such forces not intervening its likely the Eorlings would have aided Gondor without second thought. With Wormtongue subverting the king, his son recently slain, Hillmen raiding the lands, and Saruman looming over them they were not in a position to do so.

Honestly a lot of the "Free Peoples" were all well and truly locked up by local Sauron allied forces by design. If they went to aid Gondor they'd leave their homes and peoples to be obliterated. Then those enemy forces could march south to aid the rest of Sauron's already numerically superior armies as well while having a supply line.

 

[Chuckwagon]

My main problem. Was Martin being a shit head with Aragon becoming king in Lord of the Rings. "What's his tax policy?"

Yet in his story a cripple dude becomes king just on the spot.

Also I don't here anyone talk about tax policies in Game of Thrones or his books just noting but sex and incest. How shocking it is because it kills characters at random. When in reality it's just George realizing he wrote too many characters and needs to get raid of them somehow.

I'd just chalk that up to worldbuilding disease, that is, getting so bogged down in trivial minutiae that you forget to write an actual story for your world and/or keep the bigger picture of your world in mind. Certainly Martin's put out plenty of books about Westeros since 2011, just not actual ASOIAF ones. Many such cases.

Aragorn's rise to power also wasn't so simple as 'he showed up to save the day at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and has the royal sword & looks to be King, so the Gondorians made him King by default'. Tolkien implies or outright shows him working pretty hard for the crown over most of his life, actually.

• Before the events of LOTR itself, Aragorn journeyed to Gondor as a young ranger and spent 23 years working for Ecthelion II, Denethor's father and predecessor, under the alias 'Thorongil', showing the lords and commoners of Gondor that he was an effective leader and gaining their admiration. In so doing, he also gets to learn firsthand how Gondorian society works and what makes its people (from the lower levels of society up to the magnates and Denethor's court) tick.
• Aragorn did the same with Théoden's father Thengel of Rohan and so forms strong personal ties with the leaders of that kingdom, a powerful and long-time ally of Gondor, also well before he returns to Minas Tirith to potentially claim anything. In addition he's friends with an elven prince (Legolas), a literal angel in wizard's clothing (Gandalf) and a kinsman to the Dwarven kings (Gimli).
• He healed people during & after the Battle of the Pelennor Fields (healing hands are said to be another mark of kingship), including Faramir: this despite Faramir being the nominal Steward of Gondor after Denethor kills himself, and thus a direct rival for Aragorn's claim to rule Gondor if he should ever regain consciousness. The result of Aragorn's kindness toward a potential hostile claimant is that Faramir is indebted to him, becomes his loyal ally and he rises further in the esteem of the Gondorian people.
• Aragorn doesn't immediately press his claim on the Gondorian throne while the war with Mordor is still on, and actually explicitly suggests Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth (the most powerful Gondorian magnate around) should govern as a sort of temporary sorta-Steward until the greater threat is dealt with. Result: the forces of Good don't waste time or worse, resources on squabbling over who should sit the throne of Gondor while there's bigger fish to fry, and Aragorn also solidifies Imrahil's crucial support.
• By leading the armies of the Free Peoples into battle time & again, Aragorn demonstrates to his soldiers that not only is he a mighty warrior wielding the ancient sword of the Númenórean kings, but also that he's willing to subject himself to the same risks they do and that he's not going to just run & hide when the going gets tough for them. This is genuinely important for a medieval king, it's why even the ones who were mediocre fighters at best often had to at least show up to the battlefield despite the risk to their lives.
• In the end, Aragorn doesn't so much just say 'OK guys, throne's mine now' as he does get raised up to the throne by popular acclamation. Where GoT has the Council of Surviving Characters openly laugh at democracy before imposing an elective oligarchy, the people of Gondor want Aragorn to be their king at the end because of his various deeds of heroism in their service. Between this and the support among Gondor's leading nobles which he has cultivated, Aragorn has absolutely ensured he won't have to face popular discontent as he assumes the crown of his ancestors.

That is how a good man becomes a good king, which Gurm would know if he bothered to read the appendices (specifically Appendix B) of Return of the King and to also pay attention to the subtler details within the story proper. In any case, Tolkien also tells us enough about traditional Númenórean governance (which Aragorn restores as a positive agent of returning tradition) and Aragorn's reign itself to deduce what his tax policy would have been like: he would not have been an absolute monarch, but one bound by the ancient Númenórean laws & customs (which he could interpret and enforce but not create) as well as the councils of the lords of Arnor & Gondor; he decentralized power, making Faramir Prince of Ithilien and respecting the autonomy of the people of the Shire and the Drúedan Forest; he freed the slaves of Núrn and allowed them to govern themselves, essentially turning the livable half of Mordor into another ally for his Reunited Kingdom; and he waged some wars with Éomer's support to recover Umbar and a few other territories (to connect Arnor to Gondor and create a buffer against the Easterlings), but generally made peace with the Haradrim and Easterlings.

Since we know he respected tradition and the law, fought few wars and dedicated his reign to restorative works like getting a new gate to Minas Tirith (but not new ones, we don't hear about him trying to construct a Great Society-esque welfare system for example) it is reasonable to infer that he probably kept direct taxation of his subjects to a minimum, basing his income on his personal royal estates, fines and possibly loot from Sauron's and Saruman's stashes (for example, he recovers the Elendilmir of Isildur - another important royal heirloom - from the latter's tower, Orthanc). This would be right in line with Tolkien's view of what a good government should be: a small-c 'conservative' one, traditionalist and bordering on minarchist, that rules with a light touch and does not overly impress its will upon nature, its people or its neighbors - 'that government is best which governs the least' and all that, in contrast to the all-controlling, rabidly expansionist, totalitarian and aggressively industrializing Isengard & Mordor which are unambiguously evil.

Tl;dr Aragorn's tax policy is the sort of thing that would make fiscal conservatives cream their pants while leaving big-spending, big government left-wingers seething and coping. Also, since he isn't a postmodernist nihilistic hack, Tolkien was able to weave a story in which a good man becomes a good king in a believable and sensible manner. Martin meanwhile either didn't read LOTR from cover to cover or he did and was pretending not to when asking about Aragorn's taxes, and in any case he never elaborates on his own characters' economic policies either. Seriously, what's Joffrey's tax policy? All we get in that regard from ASOIAF is 'King Robert spends a lot and Littlefinger is happy to help', 'the Seven Kingdoms owe the Iron Bank a huge debt', and 'Cersei is such an idiot that she will build an expensive war fleet only to hand it off to one of the most obviously untrustworthy bit characters ever without asking any questions'.

None of the human nations were ever really saints, they all spawned their hare of ambitious or evil people. The Hillmen hate the people of Rohan because they eventually drove them out of their old lands when they went to war or allied with other enemies of them. It's a long ancestral grudge that was kept up throughout history. Much like how the Eorlings despise the Easterling tribes due to one conquering and enslaving their original homeland to the east.

It's due to that history that they're long term allies of Gondor, the land they came to live in that is now Rohan was given to them after mutual aid between the two nations. Were the acts of evil men, orcs, and other such forces not intervening its likely the Eorlings would have aided Gondor without second thought. With Wormtongue subverting the king, his son recently slain, Hillmen raiding the lands, and Saruman looming over them they were not in a position to do so.

Honestly a lot of the "Free Peoples" were all well and truly locked up by local Sauron allied forces by design. If they went to aid Gondor they'd leave their homes and peoples to be obliterated. Then those enemy forces could march south to aid the rest of Sauron's already numerically superior armies as well while having a supply line.

Yep, that's why I can't take seriously people who argue that LOTR's morality is a simple 'good and evil' binary and probably racist too. Yeah, Sauron's a literal demon (fallen angel) and thus evil, but the realms of Men are full of moral complexities (as all humans are) and have made more than their fair share of mistakes. Aragorn could've started out as King of a reunited Arnor and Gondor, for example, and spared both realms a ton of grief had it not been for the arrogant contempt the Men of Gondor had for their fading Arnorian cousins in the reign of his last ancestor to wear a crown. The Silmarillion's full of Elves acting like complete idiots and dicks to one another as well, lest one be misled into thinking they were so much saintlier than Men.

His perspective on decolonization and post-colonial states, as a British guy during the twilight of the empire, is a fascinating one that echoes reality pretty well IMO. The Númenóreans were such cruel overlords, who enslaved many of the native Men of Middle-earth and sacrificed others to Morgoth in their last and most degenerate years, that the descendants of the latter still bore a deep hatred for Númenór's descendants in Arnor and Gondor, despite those realms-in-exile having turned to good long ago. Such grievances are understandable perhaps, and Faramir & Sam express respect and regrets over a Haradrim warrior the former kills in The Two Towers, but it doesn't justify those Haradrim and Easterlings teaming up with Sauron and trying to bring ruin to all that is good and just in Middle-earth.

The parallels to black Americans embracing the woke train, demanding 'equity', reparations, etc. and chanting 'No wall, no borders, no USA at all' either because or in spite of the advancements since desegregation and olive branches extended to them by white Americans (busing, affirmative action, welfare, etc.) or how countries like Zimbabwe and South Africa have turned out in the decades since decolonization may not have been things Tolkien could predict with 100% accuracy when he died in 1973. But they are patently impossible to ignore all the same, and highlight a much more nuanced attitude on his part than the 'racist, patriarchal, heteronormative British colonialist and imperialist' his modern critics would have you believe of him because he didn't make the Fellowship appropriately diverse by Current Year standards.

Meanwhile the enlightened progressive Martin made his non-Westerosi cultures a mishmash of genuinely unrealistic, insulting and - dare I say - offensive caricatures of ancient Carthaginians (the Ghiscari are comically brutal slavers who feed little boys to bears in the arena, crucify child slaves to taunt Daenerys and eat literal puppy fetuses), Mongols and Plains Indians (the Dothraki, enough said). It's kinda surprising that the wokies haven't canceled him as hard as Lovecraft for this just yet, frankly.

 

[Ishtar]

Eh...Asshai is pretty far away. Like, its on the other side of the known world.

And there is plenty of contact between Westeros and Essos-Tywin hires that mercenary company in the books from Essos, and there are Essosi traders, merchants, an exiled summer islander prince, and the like present.

My read on the free cities is they are basically a combination of greek city states and italian ones. Thus they are more concerned with their own squabbles over trade, and likely see Westeros as a market for goods. None of them are technologically advanced enough to penetrate the continent beyond trade ties.

Generally in ancient or medieval battles if a force was attempting to land and there was an enemy presence waiting for them they'd attempt to land elsewhere. An example of this is the roman conquest of Great Britain when the celts shadowed them and did not let them land unopposed. You really don't want to fight on sand and if the enemy hits you before you can form up they'll have an advantage. The romans still managed it despite being attacked but that was due to their veterancy and discipline. In other such attempts the attackers would sometimes just fuck off because landing was like asking to have your army slaughtered. Going back and trying another time is a lot cheaper.

A direct attack on a city the way Stannis did it would likely never happen and would just turn into an easy way to lose a shitload of soldiers. Assaulting walls or any fortified position is always going to be vastly in the defender's favor. That's why the defenses are built and why they maintain garrisons. The Lannister troops at the capital were not equal in number but there was still enough that the force multiplication from having those defenses would have made it a suicidal move. There's also the simple fact that even if you have a titanic force taking the walls, then pushing through to clear the city, THEN assaulting the castle citadel as well (if there aren't even more internal walls which usually there are) would take a shitload of time. By then the relief forces would arrive without much difficulty and catch you with your pants down.

Mind you so is launching a bunch've Greek Fire +1 at the water and ships just outside your city when it could potentially blow back and set fire to your own city. Aforementioned city also has a fucking huge hidden store of MORE of the fire formula which could erupt like a bomb and kill you all but Tyrion's the sort who'd be desperate enough to use it.

Tyrion in the books had a boom chain, but instead of just using it to keep Stannis’ fleet outside the bay, he used to trap a lot of the navy inside so they could get blown up. The problem with this was-stannis had more ships and a land based force on the south side of the blackwater rush. He also threw away what little defense the Lannisters had by sending them into combat with a vastly superior force. As opposed to-not throwing away sailors. And just using the fire ships if and when the boom chain was lowered(two gate houses on either side were garrisoned but would have been overrun).

As for Stannis, he could have landed to the north and directly assaulted King’s Landing from its northern gate, or marched around. He didn’t know how long Lannister reinforcements would take to arrive or if they would. So a rushed beach assault does make some sense-at least if Tywin got there too fast. But yeah it cost him a lot of men and ships.

 

[Agarathium1066]

He also threw away what little defense the Lannisters had by sending them into combat with a vastly superior force. As opposed to-not throwing away sailors. And just using the fire ships if and when the boom chain was lowered(two gate houses on either side were garrisoned but would have been overrun).

That seems to happen a lot in the setting then, fighting stupidly when you could just use the giant stone walls that were already present. If a giant city has open sides or easily assaulted gates then it was designed by a retard. So Martin, which checks out.

 

[Ishtar]

That seems to happen a lot in the setting then, fighting stupidly when you could just use the giant stone walls that were already present. If a giant city has open sides or easily assaulted gates then it was designed by a retard. So Martin, which checks out.

I mean, at least Tyrion uses the walls. But he doesn’t use the chain. A chain that would have bought time and prevented an obstacle to Stannis’ soldiers. If he wanted to use the wildfire to get a kaboom kill bonus he should have harried them until they took it down.

If Tyrion(or rather martin) had acted competently-the city could have held for days, even with the numerical disadvantage. Buying time for Tywin and the roses to arrive. As opposed to the city being on the verge of falling in hours.

 

[Agarathium1066]

If Tyrion(or rather martin) had acted competently-the city could have held for days, even with the numerical disadvantage. Buying time for Tywin and the roses to arrive. As opposed to the city being on the verge of falling in hours.

Sieges never really have an equal number of forces as trying to take on that with the added complications of defenses is also tactical suicide. That's how castles and cities can manage to hold out for weeks or more with a force the tenth the size of the besiegers. None of it is wholly outside of the possibility but there's just a lot of terrible ideas being made on all sides.

 

[AnyballLecter]

Is this thread just going to be fact-checking fiction? So apparently Tolkien travelled to the real Middle Earth and documented it meticulously, while GRRM just made up a bunch of lies.

OK.

What about the dramatic happenings in the fanbase? There's been truckloads of drama over the last decade with:

• GRRM
• The Westeros.org superfans, Linda and Elio
• Youtubers
• Reddit mods & subreddits going to war with each other
• Twitter 'Stans' who are obsessed with Daenerys or Sansa.

I've seen plenty, but I am not documenting all that - just letting you know there is gold in them there hills. My pet lolcow is The Dragon Demands. This week, he got pedantic about medieval tentacle porn and a chick had a meltdown over this mild display of autism. He also revealed he is part of a network of hardcore spy reporters, so he really is something of a big deal on the internet.

 

[speedweed]

I'd be okay with GRRM's sex scenes if they weren't all so fucking vile. He really emphasises the most bizarre, unappealing aspects of sex, such as describing in detail how Khal Drogo's nut drips down Daenerys' thigh, or how hard a woman's nipples are, or describing cocks as 'worms'. Only a sexless freak such as George would write like this. Literally zero passion in any of it, which is highly unusual considering sex is the most passionate act a human can engage in. I'm not joking when I say that while reading these weird, sterile scenes all I can think about is George's stupid fucking face. Completely takes me out of the story.

Why are nerds like this?? Freakshit like that ruins a perfectly good story

 

[Tasty Tatty]

When GRRM talks about "what was his tax policy", I think he intended to say that he wanted more about the logistics of how a King gets an army. Many stories have big armies coming up without telling us if those people are paid or what are promised. Sure, it's a good question and yes, the idea that any leader can show up with an army can be unrealistic, but if we're gonna spend pages and pages discussing how armies are paid, the point of the story gets lost. "We need to defeat evil!!" , "yeah, sir, but we have no money."

Eh...Asshai is pretty far away. Like, its on the other side of the known world.

Is it though? I mean, it is on map, a plain paper, but we don't really know where it is when you transfer that to a globe. As far as we know, it's just right there to the left of them but they haven't noticed because they're stupid.

 

[Dixieland Buckaroo]

I'd be okay with GRRM's sex scenes if they weren't all so fucking vile. He really emphasises the most bizarre, unappealing aspects of sex, such as describing in detail how Khal Drogo's nut drips down Daenerys' thigh, or how hard a woman's nipples are, or describing cocks as 'worms'. Only a sexless freak such as George would write like this. Literally zero passion in any of it, which is highly unusual considering sex is the most passionate act a human can engage in. I'm not joking when I say that while reading these weird, sterile scenes all I can think about is George's stupid fucking face. Completely takes me out of the story.

Why are nerds like this?? Freakshit like that ruins a perfectly good story

Vox Day (of all people, maybe on a Rekieta stream?) speculated Gurm's sex scenes were so weird, distorted, and unappealing because Gurm is just writing what he knows. He might even have called him a deviant troll or dwarf. Kind of a pot/kettle black situation, but a reasonable answer.

 

[Ishtar]

George himself has been married two or three times, with no children. (His penchant for love triangles speaks to the fact he’s been cucked or rejected before).

The only sex scenes that are…somewhat passionate are maybe Jon and Ygritte, Dany and Daario(though that is just described afterwards I think?), and Asha and Qorl(though that was a bit icky honestly).

Is it though? I mean, it is on map, a plain paper, but we don't really know where it is when you transfer that to a globe. As far as we know, it's just right there to the left of them but they haven't noticed because they're stupid.

I mean…we know of slaver’s bay, the free cities, Yi-Ti, and Valyria. In universe some westerosi have gone there. In fact we here of merchants that do in the time of the books.

Asshai may be a city of sorcerers and warlocks but it’s also a city that needs massive imports. As no food or fresh water exists within or outside the city that can be eaten.

 

[RockHawk]

When GRRM talks about "what was his tax policy", I think he intended to say that he wanted more about the logistics of how a King gets an army. Many stories have big armies coming up without telling us if those people are paid or what are promised. Sure, it's a good question and yes, the idea that any leader can show up with an army can be unrealistic, but if we're gonna spend pages and pages discussing how armies are paid, the point of the story gets lost. "We need to defeat evil!!" , "yeah, sir, but we have no money."


Is it though? I mean, it is on map, a plain paper, but we don't really know where it is when you transfer that to a globe. As far as we know, it's just right there to the left of them but they haven't noticed because they're stupid.

If that was the point he was trying to make, GRRM really isnt in any position to throw stones. The armies in ASOIAF defy logistics with their absurd sizes alone, without getting into the flaws that have already been mentioned in this thread about seige warfare and peasant militias.

 

[Radola Gajda]

George himself has been married two or three times, with no children. (His penchant for love triangles speaks to the fact he’s been cucked or rejected before).

The only sex scenes that are…somewhat passionate are maybe Jon and Ygritte, Dany and Daario(though that is just described afterwards I think?), and Asha and Qorl(though that was a bit icky honestly).


I mean…we know of slaver’s bay, the free cities, Yi-Ti, and Valyria. In universe some westerosi have gone there. In fact we here of merchants that do in the time of the books.

Asshai may be a city of sorcerers and warlocks but it’s also a city that needs massive imports. As no food or fresh water exists within or outside the city that can be eaten.

Is there justification in story why people still live in Asshai and dont move somewhere less extreme?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

When GRRM talks about "what was his tax policy", I think he intended to say that he wanted more about the logistics of how a King gets an army. Many stories have big armies coming up without telling us if those people are paid or what are promised. Sure, it's a good question and yes, the idea that any leader can show up with an army can be unrealistic, but if we're gonna spend pages and pages discussing how armies are paid, the point of the story gets lost. "We need to defeat evil!!" , "yeah, sir, but we have no money."

I've heard this quote a lot here and I checked to see what he said:

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

Wow, what a fucking scumbag. First thing he directly contradicts himself: "if the king was a good man, the land would prosper" vs. "and he was wise and good". That bolded part is pretty massive. And then we get to the tax policy part and it doesn't have any bearing into the plot of the books, and Tolkien didn't need to write a fucking manual on the logistics of kingdom running, and why should those things even happen in a fictional world? Finally a retarded appeal to emotion about racist humans killing those dindu orcs. And let's not forget, GRRM's fiscal world building is either "those couple of guys gave you shit ton of money for you campaign and don't demand anything in return" or "I just borrowed money for a decade from a bank in another country that never asked for collateral and people thought I was shitting gold".