Better Call Saul

The thing with Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul is they always go for super predictable endings.
This is sort of like complaining that Columbo sucks as a detective show because they start by showing you who did it. Of course the ending is predictable. I'd rather the ending make sense in the context of what kind of show it is rather than some gimmicky bullshit to "subvert expectations."

There's plenty of gimmicky bullshit in how it gets there, and people complain about that all the time even though if there's any "subverting expectations" it's in those details.

Also Kim has done some bad shit but has genuinely unselfish traits too. She did the sociopathic stuff for fun, not profit. Left to her own devices she uses her skills to help the poor. Jimmy rarely did, and even when he did, would often turn around and fuck over the very people he'd previously helped (Sandpiper). He had enough of a conscience to know stealing from Cancer Man was bad and had qualms about it, but he went and did it anyway, and even berated someone else for having the basic human decency not to rip off that particular guy.

And as for the criticisms of him being stupid for stealing the cigars and watches, wasn't it really obvious he wanted to get caught at that point? He'd just been told he should turn himself in and lacked the balls to do it. Next best thing is to fuck up.

I thought it was an interesting take on a similar but different relationship than between Walt and Jesse. In both cases, the protagonist was much worse than the protege, but Jesse got sucked into worse and worse stuff because he was weak, while Kim was actually in the driver's seat much of the time.

Anyway tl;dr it wasn't quite as good a finale as Felina, but it tied up the series and somewhat redeemed a season that had been floundering much of the time since Lalo and Howard got killed, and in general, the show ended on a high note after looking like it was going straight into a ditch.

Saul is basically where he should be. A funny side effect is he's probably going to be a jailhouse lawyer and probably going to get some of these other genuinely bad motherfuckers out, because the prosecutor just had to go for full revenge, as well as helping with their recreational civil suits. I'd guess he's already doing that, because when he went out to see Kim, everyone all but gave him high fives.
 
It may be my own retarded bias at work, but I'm the only one that feels that Peter and Vince try to present Kim as a better person than she actually is? They try to present her simply as someone who went too far when she fucking ruined Howard's life and got him killed: just straight evil. That's why I never felt sorry for her in any of the Florida scenes: why should I feel bad that an awful person is getting what she deserves (actually a lot less if you think about it)? Vince always mentions that he is surprised that people root for Walt when he does this shit unironically with Kim. This doesn't happen with any other character, where it exists a self-awareness where you can recognize they are awful people that made shitty life choices.

At this point, I'm just rooting for Cheryl to at least win the lawsuit: it's the least she deserves from the sadistic criminal with a god complex that got her husband killed by a cartel member.
No, I'm with you 100%. They started by making Kim the moral center of the show, but at the end of the day, you can't have your character be the voice of morality if their actions every day contradict how you presented her, and you don't get to pretend the character is the same when we've seen them be horrible and push the other characters down paths they wouldn't have taken themselves.

If Jimmy became Saul, it's because Kim 1) pushed him to work for the cartels 2) pushed him to fuck with Howard even to the point of fucking up her own opportunities and cancelling that meeting and 3) by leaving him after saying 'Nah we make each others worse'. No, bitch, you made him worse.

Slippin Jimmy was more than happy to just be fucking around and doing small scams to amuse himself, you're the one who turned him into a legit criminal, then left him once your work was finished, and "confessed" your part in it when you knew there was no chance for you to get any negative blowback from the law.

She got away with everything, and didn't suffer any consequences whatsoever except small self-inflicted ones.

tldr: fuck you kim you sanctimonious bitch.

It was still a cold-blooded murder where he had actually talked with the guy face to face and he had to do it in person with his own hands, not with some bullshit contraption. He still had qualms at that point because he had never done it before. He also had to know it was him or his family.

Later it was just getting in his way, and by the end, literally just telling him why he sucked.

I'm sorry. Do you forget that he was really to let Krazy-8 live until he realized that he had kept a piece of plate to shank him in the neck as soon as he could?
 
The way i see it, Kim is a shitty person but no where near as bad as Jimmy.

His surprise at that fact that she had already confessed to what they did to Howard is evidence of that. The only reason he is spilling the beans is because he got caught, she didn't and she still came clean.
 
The way i see it, Kim is a shitty person but no where near as bad as Jimmy.

His surprise at that fact that she had already confessed to what they did to Howard is evidence of that. The only reason he is spilling the beans is because he got caught, she didn't and she still came clean.
Jimmy has the backstory for him to be the way that he is. He had his brother dicking him around all of his life; and let's not pretend that Chuck is a saint.

Remember the last flashback? Jimmy says matter-of-factly 'You're my brother! You'd do the same for me' and you can tell Chuck is thinking 'Yeaaaaah, about that...'

Chuck could have tried to nurture Jimmy, to actually help him and encourage him but everything we saw as far as their relationship goes, it was a reflection of Walt & Skylar's relationship. One partner dominating and domineering the other until they snap and go the other way around.

Now, the blame doesn't go to Chuck entirely, but we're talking about a cunt who spent all of his life going 'REEEEEE JIMMY USED TO TAKE SOME CASH FROM THE CASH REGISTER WHEN HE WAS 9 YEARS OLD AND DADDY NEVER PUNISHED HIM'. Ok, nigga, we got it, he fucked around all of his life, but he tried to become a lawyer, it's clear he looks up to you, stop trying to minimize him and try to guide him in the right direction.

It's clear all Jimmy ever wanted was a pat on the head and to be told he was a good boy, and he kept misbehaving because he wanted attention.

Kim, on the other hand? She was miss nice goody two-shoes who was attracted to Jimmy, and decided that instead of trying to keep him down the right path, she'd get more enjoyment from their relationship if they were fucking around. and fucking others over.

And when things went too bad for her, she left him holding the bags, blamed him when she was the main driver and he was just going along because he loved her and he would do anything for her, and then after crushing his heart just moved to Florida so she didn't have to face any consequences and try to forget about everything that happened.
 
It may be my own retarded bias at work, but I'm the only one that feels that Peter and Vince try to present Kim as a better person than she actually is?
They do this to ALL of their favorite characters. Practically the entire last season of BB was rehabilitating the images of Jesse and Walt. Make viewers sympathetic to Jesse by having Jesse go through some horrible nightmare. Like getting tortured, losing his freedom, seeing his girlfriend murdered. And make Walt his savior by heroically sacrificing himself and ridding the world of a Nazi gang and freeing Jesse. And even Walt getting his family some money and being a family man in the end. So that Jesse can earn his freedom to Alaska. Or Walt can earn his drug money to his family.

BCS went overboard with this. Giving us flashbacks to show Chuck and Mike in better lights. Mike being one of the most amoral characters in the frachise. Making Kim cry on the bus (worst acting moment on the entire show) and confess her sins to Howard's wife. And having Jimmy take 86 years of prison instead of 7. They tried to make it so that even the most hardened criminals on the show were just caught in a bad place in life but really had a heart of gold and were just waiting for the right moment to change that never came. Like deep down inside Mike regretted what happened to his son. Yet trying to distract the audience from that fact that he is working for child killers throughout the entire BB timeline. And has an even worse ending with granddaughter in a few years. Mike's scene in the desert comes across as just hilarious to me. "I loved my son. I wish I could change the past.......now lets dump this kid into a barrel".
They try to present her simply as someone who went too far when she fucking ruined Howard's life and got him killed: just straight evil. That's why I never felt sorry for her in any of the Florida scenes: why should I feel bad that an awful person is getting what she deserves (actually a lot less if you think about it)?
Kim drives Chuck to suicide with Jimmy. Works with Jimmy and encourages him to work with cartels. Covers up things for Lalo, Mike, and Gus. Harasses Howard to the point of drugging him even. Helps cover up his murder. Tells his widow to her face that Howard killed himself and it was her fault for being an absentee wife. Scams the court system and her own clients multiple times. She deserved life in jail. She lies to the courts about who Lalo is. She conceals Lalo still being alive instead of reporting it to authorities. This results in more people getting killed. She is literally involved in cartel murders.

Don't forget. Kim KNEW that Gus Fring was a cartel leader before the BB timeline even begins. At any point she could have brought down the entire Fring cartel system and destroyed Madrigal as a company. She flat out knew that Lalo Salamanca was a longstanding associate of Fring. The DEA intercepts just one shipment of Los Pollos Hermanos gravy and finds meth or coke and that is that.
Vince always mentions that he is surprised that people root for Walt when he does this shit unironically with Kim. This doesn't happen with any other character, where it exists a self-awareness where you can recognize they are awful people that made shitty life choices.
What did Walt do in his last moments? He kills all of the Nazis. He kills Lydia. He frees Jesse. He gives up the bodies of Hank and Steve. He gets his family clean money from Gray Matter. His last moments are basically Walt living out some fantasy cool guy hero scenario like an action movie star. Gunning people down. Poisoning people. Freeing the damsel in distress. How anyone can watch the finale of BB and not think that the writers want us to root for Walt is beyond me. Walt is only doing things that people are going to root for.

El Camino does the same exact thing. Jesse gets a shootout with the bad guys. Wins. Flees to Alaska. Are we supposed to be rooting against Jesse in El Camino as well? Vince Gillian is just another Hollywood douchebag who loves the sound of his own voice and the praise of his simpleton idiot fans. Homelander in The Boy is such a hilarious character in that no matter how powerful he is none of it matters compared to people clapping for him. He fears a lack of clapping and praise more than anything else. Vince would rather hear praise some his dumb reddit army than write a competent ending. BCS is the Emperor's New Clothes. Bravo Vince. You are amazing. Ignore the fact that you are naked and the ending of BCS was horrid.
At this point, I'm just rooting for Cheryl to at least win the lawsuit: it's the least she deserves from the sadistic criminal with a god complex that got her husband killed by a cartel member.
Honestly if the ending were even remotely well written Kim would be in jail as long as Jimmy. And Cheryl, the families of Hank and Steve, Drew Sharp's parents, and so on. Would be splitting Saul's diamonds. Kim literally knew of the inner workings of multiple cartels. That killed and poisoned who knows how many people with their violence and drugs.
 
Not Walter White levels of evil of doing reckless shit for the dopamine rush for sure, but pretty evil regardless considering she ruined an innocent person's life just because she thought it was fun. It's hard to be sympathetic to a person who does that for the lulz.
I don't think it was just "for the lulz". If I remember correctly, Kim's grudge against Howard started with Chuck's death. She was pissed at him for (correctly) suggesting it was suicide and seemingly trying to put blame on Jimmy, and Jimmy never told her he got Chuck's insurance canceled. Jimmy could have stopped the "ruin Howard's career " plan at any time by admitting the truth about Chuck's death.

Doesn't make Kim's treatment of Howard right, but she was blaming Howard for something that wasn't his fault because Jimmy was withholding the facts.
 
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Jimmy's Confession in court wasn't for Him. It was so Howard's widow couldn't go after Kim. Breaking Good in a way.
How does that keep her from suing Kim? Both she and the DA have her written confession.
In the only interaction Howard has with His wife on the show, She treats Him like crap. Then she acts all sad when He dies. She never really loved Him, it was an act.
Wow, that's a whole lot to extrapolate from one scene that takes place during the last days of a failed marriage. Most marriages happen because people love each other. Most marriages don't last.

Of course she was sad when he died. Howard was a decent man regardless of their marriage breaking down.
 
If Jimmy became Saul, it's because Kim 1) pushed him to work for the cartels 2) pushed him to fuck with Howard even to the point of fucking up her own opportunities and cancelling that meeting and 3) by leaving him after saying 'Nah we make each others worse'. No, bitch, you made him worse.
When did she push him to work for the cartels? He actively minimized his involvement in that and how deep he was in it, even after getting nearly shot. She obviously did push him to fuck with Howard and was actually obviously more responsible than Jimmy for Howard being there, while Jimmy was responsible for Lalo being there.

It took both of them for that shit to happen.

I also don't think it's that contrived that Gus was a step ahead of Lalo. The only reason he even got shot was his stubborn insistence on doing things himself, which is completely consistent with what ultimately got him killed by Hector. Just like Mike consistently fucked up by underestimating Walt because of his absolute contempt for him, culminating in pissing him off and then turning his back on him.

I also don't see how it's inconsistent for Jimmy to fall on his sword for Kim. He was literally willing to die for her when they were held hostage by Lalo, and he isn't particularly known for courage.
How does that keep her from suing Kim?
It doesn't, but it keeps the DA from going after her, or at least makes it less likely, which Jimmy had made a lot more likely with his own reappearance. She could still be sued and prosecuted, but the DA seems sympathetic to Kim. It doesn't really matter what was likely to happen anyway, because Jimmy did it for his own reasons.
 
Walt is implied to be an antisemite in that he resents his Jewish partners, named himself after the guy who ran Hitler's nuclear program, then teams up with the Trailer Trash Nazis without a thought. In that scene, he didn't like Gretchen's family having higher status than him, so he got pissed off and left in a huff.

I imagine one of the next spinoff ideas is telling the Grey Matter story, but this would mean having someone else play Walt.
And she ended up marrying a German anyway. (Schwartz).

It's debatable if Kim can be called a "good" person, but calling her "straight evil" does seem to be your own bias. It's not her fault a psychopath showed up at her home and shot Howard in the head.
She didn't necessarily want to kill him, but she did want to ruin his life out of spite. If everything had gone according to plan, Howard probably would have ended up killing himself at least partially because of her actions.
 
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The way i see it, Kim is a shitty person but no where near as bad as Jimmy.
They are both worthy of life in jail. Kim also lies in her confession to both the DA and to Howard's widow. And conceals the fact that she knows that Jimmy is alive and knows where he was calling from. Her only reason for confessing was simply to beat Jimmy to the punch. Before he could confess and possibly lock her out of getting a deal or being able to walk away. It was self preservation and nothing more. She simply knows that with Jimmy in hiding she can throw him under the bus and avoid jail for herself. She is selfish and nothing more.
His surprise at that fact that she had already confessed to what they did to Howard is evidence of that. The only reason he is spilling the beans is because he got caught, she didn't and she still came clean.
Wrong. She knows that if Jimmy is stupid enough to call her he will get caught eventually. He is being sloppy. So she rushes as quickly as she can to confess so that Jimmy cannot bury her alongside himself. Or take a plea deal that involves incriminating her because Jimmy is way more valuable as a source than she is. Kim had from the time of Howard's death until Jimmy called her for a confession. Six years. Why wait? Kim had from the time of Walt's death until Jimmy's call to tell the police about Fring, Lalo, Mike, and other information. Six weeks. Why wait?

She keeps Howard's real death a secret for six years and lets Howard's widow live in misery. And keeps information about Gus Fring, Lalo, and Mike for just as long. But the day that Jimmy calls her from hiding she confesses. Has nothing to do with guilt or Howard's widow. She does not want to go to jail.

Jimmy is surprised because Kim had six entire years to confess for Howard's death and never did it. Then shes does it in secret essentially days before he is caught. That is why he is so shocked. That the second he got off of the phone with her she was rushing to the police to implicate him in multiple crimes and exonerate herself and get a deal essentially. She plays him like a total dope. And he takes the fall for her yet again. Which is a repeated theme on BCS where Jimmy just slavishly does things for Kim's benefit and not his own. Jimmy knows that when he contacted Kim she immediately went to the police to saver herself in case Jimmy was caught.
 
It may be my own retarded bias at work, but I'm the only one that feels that Peter and Vince try to present Kim as a better person than she actually is? They try to present her simply as someone who went too far when she fucking ruined Howard's life and got him killed: just straight evil. That's why I never felt sorry for her in any of the Florida scenes: why should I feel bad that an awful person is getting what she deserves (actually a lot less if you think about it)? Vince always mentions that he is surprised that people root for Walt when he does this shit unironically with Kim. This doesn't happen with any other character, where it exists a self-awareness where you can recognize they are awful people that made shitty life choices.

At this point, I'm just rooting for Cheryl to at least win the lawsuit: it's the least she deserves from the sadistic criminal with a god complex that got her husband killed by a cartel member.
This is so tiresome. Kim did not get Howard killed. Lalo murdered Howard. This was not foreseeable. Mike told her it was a one in a thousand shot, and that he has guys watching them

It is also the case that Jimmy was coerced into a working relationship with Lalo. He was actually kidnapped, and then after he did what was asked, he tried to get extricate himself out of the relationship. Lalo simply smiles and says "you'll make time."

Ruined Howard? Not unless Lalo showed up. The guy was not a service partner. He was a name partner worth millions. He even tells Kim and Jimmy that he will bounce back. He made a little less money with Sandpiper, and had he lived, could probably retire comfortably at that point.

In my mind, Kim's actions towards Jimmy are what offend me. She abandoned the man she professed to love And for Jimmy she was the onyl who loved and understood him. And her this and that talk about how "apart we are ok, but together we are poison" is demonstrably false. Without Kim, Jimmy actually does become Saul.
 
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Ending seemed really weak to me. Show drug on a bit too long, that said, do any of you know what the next series will be, they can't walk away from a cash cow like this. I have to believe it's the top rated show in AMC.

One rumor floating around is that the reason Kim basically got away with EVERYTHING and didn't get fucked over by Saul in the end, is that Vince/AMC are contemplating a spin-off with the character to continue the Breaking Bad universe.
 
I am very glad for Saul Goodman's detransition back into Jimmy McGill, stunning and brave
IT'S MCGILL!!!
maam.jpg
 
One rumor floating around is that the reason Kim basically got away with EVERYTHING and didn't get fucked over by Saul in the end, is that Vince/AMC are contemplating a spin-off with the character to continue the Breaking Bad universe.
I get the sense that the fan-ficy feeling of Better Call Saul stems from how weird the coincidences are, since all events have to tie consistently with Breaking Bad. A show that is derivative of a derivative is bound to feel even worse. Let this universe die, please.
 
I'm a bit confused why some people think that Walt's scene was supposed to make him look even remotely good. It seems to stem from belief that Gray Matter "cut him out" but most of the evidence from Breaking Bad points to his departure being entirely his choice. Consider this exchange between Gretchen and Walt from Season 2.

Gretchen: What happened to you? Really, Walt. What happened? Because this isn't you.
Walter: What would you know about me? What would your presumption about me be, exactly? That I should go begging for your charity? And you waving your checkbook around, like some magic wand, is going to make me forget how you and Elliott cut me out?
Gretchen: What? That can't be how you see it.
Walter: It was my hard work, my research, and you and Elliott make millions off it.
Gretchen: That cannot be how you see it.
Walter: Good. That's beautifully done.
Gretchen: You left.
Walter: You are always the picture of innocence.
Gretchen: You left me.
Walter: The picture of innocence. Just sweetness and light.
Gretchen: You left me. Newport, 4th of July weekend. You and my father and my brothers, and I go up to our room, and you're packing your bags, barely talking. What? Did I dream all that?
Walter: That's your excuse to build your little empire on my work?
Gretchen: How can you say that to me? You walked away. You abandoned us. Me, Elliott.
Walter: Little rich girl just adding to your millions.
Gretchen: I don't even know what to say to you. I don't even know where to begin. I feel so sorry for you, Walt.
Walter: Fuck you.

And now compare it to what Walt says in the series finale of BCS

Walter: When I was a graduate student, I started a company with some...At the time I thought they were my friends. Our goal was to commercialize discoveries that I had made. And at a certain point, I stepped away. I thought I was doing the gentlemanly thing, but little did I understand that they were artfully maneuvering me into leaving my own creation. And had I stayed, oh...Well, I wouldn't be down here with you

Even after all that happened, Walt still wrongfully blamed Gretchen and Elliott for his own poor decision. It shows that Walt didn't learn anything from his experiences. He was still the same miserable self-sabotaging prick who always believed that he was the victim, and that the world was out to get him.

I mentioned that in a post. Vince has always kind of struggled with the fact that fans of Walt believing his lies that he was "forced out" and that G&E conspired against him. The scene where Walt explained his backstory to Jesse in S5 of Breaking Bad (where he talks about his past life as a legit scientist to Jesse and the bit where every week Walt looks up the stock price of Grey Matter as a sort of ritualistic two minute hate) is the closet he ever came to having Walt admit that he was the one who fucked up his relationship with Gretchen and that his descent into crime has been him trying to compensate for that loss, since everything has been downhill for him ever since he ragequit Grey Matter.

Hence my comment that if Vince really wanted to settle the issue and "own" the people who think Walt is a didn't do nuttin, he could have used that scene with Saul and Walt to have Saul reveal that he did additional research on Walt's past and found out that Walt was a paranoid incel who fucked up his relationship with Gretchen and that there was no plot to force him out of the company. Put it out into the open and resolve any sort of ambiguity and have Saul "own" Walt in a way that that allows them to interject elements of the BCS version of Saul (who has a bit more morals than his BB counterpart) into his interaction with Walt for their final encounter, where Saul has no reason NOT to hide his even amoral lawyers have basic bitch standards from Walt, who has no shame and is in full mask is off evil has no standards mode.
 
I don't think it was just "for the lulz". If I remember correctly, Kim's grudge against Howard started with Chuck's death. She was pissed at him for (correctly) suggesting it was suicide and seemingly trying to put blame on Jimmy, and Jimmy never told her he got Chuck's insurance canceled. Jimmy could have stopped the "ruin Howard's career " plan at any time by admitting the truth about Chuck's death.

Doesn't make Kim's treatment of Howard right, but she was blaming Howard for something that wasn't his fault because Jimmy was withholding the facts.
That doesn't erase the fact that she did all this shit out of spite though.
This is so tiresome. Kim did not get Howard killed. Lalo murdered Howard. This was not foreseeable. Mike told her it was a one in a thousand shot, and that he has guys watching them

It is also the case that Jimmy was coerced into a working relationship with Lalo. He was kidnapped, and then after he did what was asked, he tried to get extricate himself from the relationship. Lalo simply smiles and says "you'll make time."

Ruined Howard? Not unless Lalo showed up. The guy was not a service partner. He was a name partner worth millions. He even tells Kim and Jimmy that he will bounce back. He made a little less money with Sandpiper and had he lived, could probably retire comfortably at that point.

In my mind, Kim's actions towards Jimmy are what offend me. She abandoned the man she professed to love And for Jimmy she was the onyl who loved and understood him. And her this and that talk about how "apart we are ok, but together we are poison" is demonstrably false. Without Kim, Jimmy actually does become Saul.
Howard would have never been in their apartment at the wrong time and moment if Kim didn't go with her bullshit "I wanna have fun" plan. For years, people believed he was a drug addict that killed himself because of her. Even if somehow managed to bounce back, his reputation would be ruined and everyone will think he is a cocaine sniffer that beats up prostitutes. Cheryl has every right to drain every cent she makes until the end of her life.
One rumor floating around is that the reason Kim basically got away with EVERYTHING and didn't get fcked over by Saul, in the end, is that Vince/AMC are contemplating a spin-off with the character to continue the Breaking Bad universe.
It's weird considering that Vince loves to punish people that make bad deeds, but AMC has been pretty open about wanting to make more spin-offs of the BB universe. Gould even mentioned that killing her was even on the table at one point. My theory is that the original plan was for her to be killed/go to jail and that's why Jimmy goes full Joker. I think the weird shitty life/civil suit purgatory was made so she can be used in future projects at AMC request, but it doesn't feel like she got away. Did it work? Meh, sort of.
 
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