Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Rupin]

I might run counter to some established Kiwifarms ethos, but I find myself not really giving a shit if Cecil is doxxed or not. He's still a far cry from a Keffals or a Byuu. His face is nondescript and bears no startling surprises. Turns out he's fat and hairy. Who knew? It's like, nobody has any idea Batman has the same face as Bruce Wayne because he put a mask around his eyes! Oooh!
We already know he's probably on the run from loan sharks. We already know he crashed on his sisters sofa until she kicked him out. We already know he's stiffing a bunch of credulous paypigs who backed his ironically-named-but-not-really book. We already know he has an embarrassing teeny-tiny hard-on for Thot Star Wars Girl and her bakelite dirigibles.
To know his real name would fill in some details, like how far in the hole he is, and someone's probably autistic enough to check that face against hundreds of stockbrokers or whatever his job was in whatever place he previously stank up it won't be me but all that would 'just' be gravy.

Cecil is not fat. In fact, from the pictures I’ve seen of him on the Simpcast panel and that twitter link with the face reveal, it looks like he is wasting away.

I'm new here and wont be continuing to post here. I honestly figured kiwifarms, being what it is, would have found Cecil's doxxed face by now seeing as how it was broadcasted on about 10 different prominent youtube channels during and after Matsuri. So I saw one poster who kept joking about/asking about Cecil unmasked. I wasn't sure if it was a taboo topic here or not. Cecil doesnt deserve to be doxxed out of malice, but his face has been publicly available moreso than ever since Matsuri 2022... Just wasnt sure if it was proper etiquette to post it out in the open. But ok, fishy. I didn't fish for anything, I merely dropped a simple truth in somebody's lap. Not a big deal.

I for one, appreciate your work.

 

[A nameless trool]

I might run counter to some established Kiwifarms ethos, but I find myself not really giving a shit if Cecil is doxxed or not. He's still a far cry from a Keffals or a Byuu. His face is nondescript and bears no startling surprises. Turns out he's fat and hairy. Who knew? It's like, nobody has any idea Batman has the same face as Bruce Wayne because he put a mask around his eyes! Oooh!
We already know he's probably on the run from loan sharks. We already know he crashed on his sisters sofa until she kicked him out. We already know he's stiffing a bunch of credulous paypigs who backed his ironically-named-but-not-really book. We already know he has an embarrassing teeny-tiny hard-on for Thot Star Wars Girl and her bakelite dirigibles.
To know his real name would fill in some details, like how far in the hole he is, and someone's probably autistic enough to check that face against hundreds of stockbrokers or whatever his job was in whatever place he previously stank up it won't be me but all that would 'just' be gravy.

Cecil looks exactly as uninteresting as one would expect.
But his career in finance and family history will probably be the milk we need

 

[Captain Manning]

I'm new here and wont be continuing to post here. I honestly figured kiwifarms, being what it is, would have found Cecil's doxxed face by now seeing as how it was broadcasted on about 10 different prominent youtube channels during and after Matsuri.

I think the reason why nobody posted it here is because nobody has really given a shit. It might be useful if he gets a thread (and then only for completeness), but otherwise it's pretty uninteresting.

Compare to Vikki, who has the whole flirty GOTIS thing going on, with the leg pictures, and then you saw her face when she accidently turned on her webcam...

Spoiler: The reaction

It's the disconnect that makes it funny. Not the fact that somebody got facedoxed. It's a point not even lost on Renfamous when you consider how she showed us TUG's hambeast wife versus the "Lola" catfishing persona she uses. Nerdette has the opposite problem of Vikki and Trashley, the voice is way worse than the face.

Cecil... in all honesty... is about what you'd expect he'd look like. I agree with @Least Concern that the mask is more in furtherance of the superhero gimmick, rather than a concerted effort to hide his identity. The fact that he was perfectly comfortable eating in public with it off seems to support that conclusion.

Could it be…
Doug Ernst 2: Kiwi Boogaloo??

I'd unironically welcome Ernst to the Farms, but he should not act like a faggot hiding behind a sock.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Yes and I won't be posting it. There's some gay-opery afoot. It seems to have been taken at one of those recent cons while he was eating.

The one I saw he wasn't eating, he was standing at a table behind the three broads in Skankcast. Anna/Venti/and the third one whose name I don't care enough to go look up. It was at Anime Matsuri, though.

I don't dislike the guy enough to be the one to post the picture, but if somebody else did it wouldn't bother me, honestly.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

The one I saw he wasn't eating, he was standing at a table behind the three broads in Skankcast. Anna/Venti/and the third one whose name I don't care enough to go look up. It was at Anime Matsuri, though.

I don't dislike the guy enough to be the one to post the picture, but if somebody else did it wouldn't bother me, honestly.

If I would've stumbled upon the tweet/pics organically I would've been the first to post it.

 

[BroFist28]

You know for someone who claims to be a libertarian & can do better than Marvel & DC in making/selling comics, he sure doesn't understand jackshit what MSRP, secondary market, or collectibles are.

 

[Gar For Archer]

View attachment 3633941
You know for someone who claims to be a libertarian & can do better than Marvel & DC in making/selling comics, he sure doesn't understand jackshit what MSRP, secondary market, or collectibles are.

Lmfao, imagine using the price of variant covers to defend your overpriced book. It doesn’t matter if ISOM #1 is the second coming of Christ, no story is worth $40 MSRP for a hundred pages of content. Comparing the value of your book to variant cover comics is just tacit admission that you’re not selling a story, but collectible YouTuber merch.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

View attachment 3633941
You know for someone who claims to be a libertarian & can do better than Marvel & DC in making/selling comics, he sure doesn't understand jackshit what MSRP, secondary market, or collectibles are.

That's not a good look. Eric comes off as a bit unhinged and overly defensive while the Zack guy sounds calm in his responses.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Cecil is not fat.

I'll walk back another point: I was surprised. I expected a lot more male pattern baldness.

 

[A nameless trool]

View attachment 3633941
You know for someone who claims to be a libertarian & can do better than Marvel & DC in making/selling comics, he sure doesn't understand jackshit what MSRP, secondary market, or collectibles are.

Both are right and both are too retarded to argue about it.
The probably more retarded than Ya Boi Zack is technically correct that the book is supposed to cost only $5.
However, it is a 1:25 variant, meaning if you want this, you have to order 25 issues in total and maybe you cannot move all of them (maybe you can do only 10 and maybe stretch it to 15) you are going to charge the variant for the 10 extras you ordered to get it aiming at collectors/speculators/whales who cannot find said book because it is scarce.
Therefore, Rippa is in reality correct about it, because the cover price does not cover the true cost/opportunity for the retailer and the publisher knows it but keeps doing it because it is profitable.
But since he is fighting the cultsur wur on tweeta he is unable to articulate his point.

If simple Zack can explain it in a video then any person with three working braincells should be able to write it in a tweet or two.


TLR The Farms win because milk got spilled.

 

[Captain Manning]

Alright guys. Enough farting around with far more amusing lolcows that have declared an autistic war on Kiwifarms. It's time to pull the band-aid off and be done with this shit so I can go back to laughing at troons who distribute bathtub HRT to minors and get doxed via autistic analysis of their hotel room bedsheets. No offense, but that shit is funnier that we usually talk about in this thread.

I give you... Nightmare at Nerdette's Newstand, Part 4: THE FINAL STUPID!

(Posted late because that's SOP with CG, and we gotta keep that theme going across all levels, including the critique).

- EVS argues that Nerdette is grifter because she changes her position on things based on whose paying her at the moment. This is more crap about her accepting and promoting a Punisher themed wallet. Nerdette then starts chimping out because "somebody went after her sponsor." Ethan says that's a lie, and nobody went after her sponsor. He says that all her sponsor did was look at the data, and concluded she wasn't a good investment.

- Ethan: "Your engagement is shit."
Nerdette "Ethan, I get more views than you doooooo!"
Ethan: "You get more views when you copy videos of celebrities for 35 seconds."
(Accurate).
- Ethan "[The rest of your channel] is bread-tuber comic book commentary."

Basically, what this shit boils down to is that he gets way more engagement on comic book shit that she does (which I guess the wallet sponsor would care more about), which is mathematically verifiable. She wants to include all her content in terms of engagement (including the Johnny Depp stuff) in order to put one over on Ethan. You could either appreciate that her aggregate engagement numbers are superior to FROG's, and call that a W for her, or you can roll your eyes at the fact that she has to have a generous helping of clickbait Johnny Depp vs. Amber stuff (which presumably doesn't promote the sponor) in order to get anybody to watch or subscribe to her channel. As an aside, I suspect Ethan probably makes WAY more in Superchats than her from his livestreams. Which is where the real money is at based on conversations I had with Nick Rekeieta two years ago. The subs and views are almost beside the point if people are throwing money at you via superchats. Her Johnny Depp shit are not livestreams.

- Nerdette accuses EVS of justifying somebody going after her sponsor. She then pivots to the fact that people like Quartering promote RAID: Shadow Legends, and might not be a fan of it. EVS then asks if she's now gonna admit that she was promoting a product she doesn't even like, and she once again states that he doesn't like the Punisher.

- Nerdette claims that the Youtube algorithm forces content creators into doing more short-form content. In fairness to her, she's probably right. Shorter views = more videos watched = more ads. The issue isn't that she's doing short-form content. It's that she's doing the laziest of short term content by reposting Johnny Depp shit without even providing commentary and then saying she's better than Ethan. NOBODY in their right mind would argue that the dreaded Youtube algorithm emphasizes quality.

- Nerdette whines more about some guy going after her sponsor, and EVS opines that he was critiquing her hypocrisy, and not speaking to her sponsors. It occurs to me at this point that I have no fucking clue who this person is, and I'm not sure I even GAS. Anybody? At this point, I'd rally wish they'd get off this fucking topic. It is so gay.

- What's next on the docket? Doug Ernst? Again!? Fuck me sideways. Nerdette basically just says she's seen no proof that Doug Ernst was gay opping EVS. She presumably doesn't think the evidence Hut provided is good enough whereas everybody with a brain immediately recognized it for what it was, and Dougy basically admitted it. I dunno why people wanna die on that hill. Just call him a faggot for the tactics he employed and encourage him to criticize Ethan more openly (like everybody in this thread seems to) Thankfully, this lasts like 10 seconds.

THE BEST PART OF THE ENTIRE SHOW:

- Nerdette turns to EVS's "show with Max." She points out that EVS calls SJWs a "cult-like mentality" and then asks Ethan whether he thinks CG also has a "cult-like mentality."
EVS: "I hope so."
Nerdette (shocked): "You hope so?"
EVS: "Sure."

What follows is about 10 seconds of dead air. You could hear a cricket fart. I have it timestamped here to prove I'm not bullshitting.

On the one hand, it's probably ridiculous to hope any movement you are the head of is described as a cult but, on the other hand, her reaction is so priceless I don't even care how cringe that might be. I don't think she expected this response at all.

She then shakes out of the stupor and says "okay."

It's like she wanted Ethan to be upset and launch into a passionate defense of why CG isn't a cult, but gets this instead and has nothing to follow up with. It's glorious. Well played @FROG.

- Nerdette: "Is Comicsgate a political movement?"
EVS: "Yes."
Nerdette: "How has it become that?"

EVS then states that he made it that and brought it into focus (after YBZ passed him the baton). This seems inconsistent with his views that CG comics should be apolitical (the shit he gave Tim Lim for Trump books), but perhaps he's saying that the movement is political but the product isn't. I dunno. I think I've made my views clear that CG should just be a group of talent that want to publish comics outside the influence of the mainstream, but Ethan wants to make it this big political thing. Whatever.

- Late and gay big brained take from Vikki:

Sure, Vikki, and that completely ignores the point made earlier about where that engagement comes from. It's like you weren't even paying attention to the conversation, and were probably just seething over how bad Nerdette is doing. You could have made money and may have gotten out of that thrift store shelter if you also did low effort Jonny Depp content too (poor Dean seems amendable to wanting to do anything that's not CG, and I don't blame him). But it's "off brand" to wanting to make your entire life about alogging TUG and EVS day in and day out, and consequently not making a dime from it because few people care about your seething hatred. Pull your head out of your ass. That's not an "own." That's grasping at straws.

(And it's a good thing too! How can you possibly destroy Ethan Van Schiver without the aid of a crackhead! Thank GOD he was saved from making more diverse content with SaggyMelonz and maybe having some fun doing so!).

Foolishness aside, I think it's been known for a while that Ethan's engagement has been slipping from where it was when CG was a hot topic. I have suspected for a while that a lot of his subs are people who subbed then and simply forget they were. I know I don't make it a point to "curate" my Youtube subs on a regular basis, and I suspect a lot of people don't.

- Nerdette complains about EVS not being able to name leftists in comics. Later, he metaphorically likens this line of questioning to HUAC and Joe McCarthy. However, he does name drop Dee Dee Myers. Nerdette interrupts with "Okay, I'm talking about comics!" Despite claiming to know better than EVS what's going on at D.C. much earlier in the show, Nerdette was apparently ignorant of the that Myers was an executive at WB with control over D.C.. He explains to her who she is (Bill Clinton's former press secretary), and that she hired Diane Whelan Nelson as President of D.C.. Who, in turn, "opened the floodgates" to SJWs." He starts to name names of people she hired, starting with Andy Khouri, but Nerdette interrupts him and says "Khouri no longer works there." Ethan: "He was just recently fired." Nerdette: "You're right." Nerdette then says she wants names of people who work there now.

At this point, I think Nerdette is pretty clearly the one moving the goal posts now, since it's not like Comicsgate just started last Thursday. It's a reaction to the then and now. More so the then, back when CG was more popular and people were freshly indignant about what was happening. It's entirely possible EVS doesn't know the name of every SJW employed by D.C. Comics right this second, and I don't think that's a fail on his part The entire tone of her criticism seems to now feel less like "frog man bad" and "there was no SJWs takeover of comics."

Which is an absurd position to take. I don't think there is a single person in this thread, no matter how much they dislike FROG, that could argue that with a straight face. Somebody like @Mister Dongs or @Smug Freiza can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the criticism over FROG has always concerned the execution of CG as a reactionary movement. Not that there is absolutely nothing that happened in mainstream comics to react against. The circles back to the idea that Nerdette just didn't leave CG, but might have also gone fully SJW and accepted the mainstream narrative wholesale. There is a pretty clear distinction between KF criticism and SJW criticism, and Nerdette's feels more like the later.

- Anyways, EVS goes on to mention that Khouri hired "Zoe Quinn, for example," to which Nerdette retorts that she was only hired for one book.

Again, he names names, but they're not to her satisfaction. Much earlier in this debate, Ethan did a shit job on this, and came across as disingenuous, but now she's just coming across as willing to discount every example he's willing to put forward no matter how valid. It is visibly apparent at this point the Ethan is irritated with her.

- He names Robbi Rodriguez, and the goal posts fully shift as she can't dispute he's an SJW or is working there but merely states "because he's a very talented artist." She also points out that Rodriguez sent EVS a picture of his butthole and laughs (yeah, that's not insane at all Tristen... he'd get a thread on KF for that alone... look at PPP's thread, for example).

- EVS says he's trying to explain how CG happened. She then goes back to wanting names of "all the SJWs at D.C." and this is where he mocks her for sounding like McCarthy. Ethan states that who works there now is more important to her than him. He also points out that chat has been naming names all through this exchange. Nerdette: "I'm not looking at the chat." EVS: "Why are you pretended you don't know this?"

Examples:

- In the course of this turgid exchange in which Nerdette doesn't like the names EVS gives, and she apparently ignores her own chat, Nerdette says that "everyone knows" why Ethan refuses to give his opinion on homosexuality.

When will this pain stop? 15 MINUTES?! SON OF A BITCH! Well, I got a fix for that...



- The exchange gets a bit more heated and Ethan says he doesn't call out individuals (that's kinda bullshit @FROG, but whatever). He says (as suggested by chat) "I might say Tom King is an SJW..." and Nerdette interrupts and says "Holy shit! That's an SJW to you!" That, IMO, reinforces the idea this whole thing is futile with and that Ethan might not be naming names because she'll reject each and every one for one reason or another, and not that he doesn't know any.

URGE TO KILL: RISING.

- Ethan: " Why am I doing this?" Yeah, I was kinda wondering that myself. At least the e-fap was more fun... I hope.

- Nerdette doesn't like the fact EVS makes fun of Pencil's Down. I don't even... ugh..

- Ethan reiterates that the purpose of his channel is to talk about the overall state of the comics industry and not call out individuals. Ethan says that he has called out individuals before, and has regretted it (more honest than above).

- Nerdette trots out the thing that an SJW to Ethan is anybody that doesn't agree with him. Which might be true in some cases, but not all. Ethan "You're a dumb girl." Nerdette: "I'm a dumb girl?" Ethan: "Yes, I told you that over e-mail." Nerdette: "I act like who I am." Ethan: "Try to be better than who you are." Nerdette argues that the entire point of CG is to create an enemy to sell a product.

Simp detected. Cringe: 100%.

- EVS says he got cancelled because he wasn't woke. We finish out this shitshow by Ethan going over why he's no longer at D.C.. I'm kinda abridging this because I'm sprinting towards the light at the end of the tunnel at this point. Please make it stop.

EVS: "What a goddamned lie!" EVS asks for any proof of that. Says that Sam Humphries has never said that, and challenges Nerdette to bring him on the show.
Nerdette: "Kinda triggers you though."
EVS: "Yeah, because it isn't true."
Nerdette: "Okay, I guess that's fair."

So... like... point Ethan, I guess. What even is this line of questioning?

EVS then goes over how he was forced out of D.C., and brings up an e-mail he sent a co-worker which is kinda hard to read, but it goes over how he's tired of being called a Nazi. Nerdette asks whether he was fired for being an open Trump supporter, and Ethan answers "yes."

In the end, he gives one story why he doesn't work there anywhere, and his contract wasn't renewed, and she apparently can't prove his story is wrong and the whole thing goes absolutely nowhere. I guess it's one of those things where you believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Can't reply to the long thread but the engagement thing really boils down to this: were you famous before your Youtube channel or did you become famous because of your Youtube channel?

The economics and motivation are different for each.

 

[TheMadAutist]

The Nerdette "debate" gave me new respect for @FROG so good job Tristen!

 

[Captain Manning]

Can't reply to the long thread but the engagement thing really boils down to this: were you famous before your Youtube channel or did you become famous because of your Youtube channel?

The economics and motivation are different for each.

That's true, and Ethan had a head start there because of his involvement in the comics industry. He was name before Youtube. What's sad is that she seemingly has only one way to try and close the gap: regurgitated Johnny Depp vomit. To me, that speaks volumes about her talent, or lack thereof.

My main frustration throughout all this is that she somehow could not (or willingly would not) grasp Ethan's point that there's a huge divide between the engagement on her Johnny Depp videos, and the engagement on her comics shit. You can tell just by looking at the view numbers for each type of video.

Quite a divide? No?

Here's an example of a "successful" video:

Color me unimpressed. That gets the views only because people like Johnny Depp soundbites. It's a hot story, but it's lazy. It's not even her own content. Bitch couldn't even get on facecam and manage her own "my dog stepped on a bee" parody? Say what you want about TUG's Amber Heard content (and I have said my share of things), but at least a lot of it was transformative. Hell, he was even mentioned by name during the trial testimony.

To me, it would understandable that a comic book wallet manufacturer would pull her sponsorship if they finally figured out that the vast majority of engagement she's getting is not coming from comic book fans, but people wanting a less than 2 minute thing regarding Johnny Depp. I don't think the ads even ran on the Depp content.

Regardless, her content is dogshit, and her voice is annoying. I feel a sense of accomplishment in managing to summarize most of the debate, but am not looking forward to doing it again any time soon.

Also, I just love how Vikki's indignation towards Amber Heard content evaporates the second it comes from a EVS critic. LOL. If Nerdette were still an EVS supporter, Vikki would probably raise the same argument to Nerdette that FROG did. No other parameter would have to change.

 

[TheMadAutist]

That's true, and Ethan had a head start there because of his involvement in the comics industry. He was name before Youtube. What's sad is that she seemingly has only one way to try and close the gap: regurgitated Johnny Depp vomit. To me, that speaks volumes about her talent, or lack thereof.

My main frustration throughout all this is that she somehow could not (or willingly would not) grasp Ethan's point that there's a huge divide between the engagement on her Johnny Depp videos, and the engagement on her comics shit. You can tell just by looking at the view numbers for each type of video.

View attachment 3634789View attachment 3634792

Quite a divide? No?

Here's an example of a "successful" video:

Color me unimpressed. That gets the views only because people like Johnny Depp soundbites. It's a hot story, but it's lazy. It's not even her own content. Bitch couldn't even get on facecam and manage her own "my dog stepped on a bee" parody? Say what you want about TUG's Amber Heard content (and I have said my share of things), but at least a lot of it was transformative. Hell, he was even mentioned by name during the trial testimony.

To me, it would understandable that a comic book wallet manufacturer would pull her sponsorship if they finally figured out that the vast majority of engagement she's getting is not coming from comic book fans, but people wanting a less than 2 minute thing regarding Johnny Depp. I don't think the ads even ran on the Depp content.

Regardless, her content is dogshit, and her voice is annoying. I feel a sense of accomplishment in managing to summarize most of the debate, but am not looking forward to doing it again any time soon.

Also, I just love how Vikki's indignation towards Amber Heard content evaporates the second it comes from a EVS critic. LOL. If Nerdette were still an EVS supporter, Vikki would probably raise the same argument to Nerdette that FROG did. No other parameter would have to change.

View attachment 3635085​

TBF the example you cited was a YT short and those get pushed differently and autoreply so people accidentally watch them multiple times. Here is a better snapshot of her video's performance.

 

[Captain Manning]

TBF the example you cited was a YT short and those get pushed differently and autoreply so people accidentally watch them multiple times. Here is a better snapshot of her video's performance.
View attachment 3635389

Olay, but that still shows a pretty big divide between her comics content and her Depp content though. On the the order of way more than 200%. 543 views for a video about D.C. Comics, and then 5K for one about an Amber Heard deposition. You tell me where the engagement numbers are coming from.

As near as I can tell, the Ethan debate is the most successful non-Depp thing she has. Which is kinda ironic, if you think about it. She should be thanking Ethan for giving her that.

I also presume those shorts are still contributing heavily to her engagement numbers, so it's skewed.

As an aside, I went ahead and showed this thread's flag in the Keffals art project thread. When the troon army storms the gates of the Farms we can unite behind the Wiggling Human Sunbeam.

 

[TheMadAutist]

Olay, but that still shows a pretty big divide between her comics content and her Depp content though. On the the order of way more than 200%. 543 views for a video about D.C. Comics, and then 5K for one about an Amber Heard deposition. You tell me where the engagement numbers are coming from.

As near as I can tell, the Ethan debate is the most successful non-Depp thing she has. Which is kinda ironic, if you think about it. She should be thanking Ethan for giving her that.

I also presume those shorts are still contributing heavily to her engagement numbers, so it's skewed.

As an aside, I went ahead and showed this thread's flag in the Keffals art project thread. When the troon army storms the gates of the Farms we can unite behind the Wiggling Human Sunbeam.

When you say engagement are you talking just views or are you including comments, likes, and views? Not trying to simp Nerdette, just pointing out her channel is shit all the way through. Her best "video" this month was a 78k view 1min CBS clip she uploaded with no commentary. Im shocked CBS didn't spank her ass over that.

 

[Captain Manning]

When you say engagement are you talking just views or are you including comments, likes, and views?

Probably all of the above, but in main I'm emphasizing views, since those are the easiest to track without having to do a deeper analysis.

My central point is that Nerdette would have not have the views or subs she has but for all the Johnny Depp crap. Frog is 120% right on that point.

I can't give TUG crap for all the Amber Heard shit he did, and then Nerdette gets a pass. She's almost like an anti-CG (and possible SJW) TUG... with a vagina... and a more irritating voice.

Not trying to simp Nerdette, just pointing out her channel is shit all the way through

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. I agree, none of it is super-duper impressive. But in a relative sense, one side of her channel is definitely more shit than the other.

 

[Mister Dongs]

Anyone want to give @Captain Manning a break and efap this from last night?

Okay,

The first three hours of this Frog livestream were Frog voicing his complaint of the new alternate universe woke gay crippled spider-woman, then She-Hulk. Eventually though Frog and the audience got bored of this and instead entertained themselves with discussions of Simple Zack and what the loss of the creator producer of such classic works like 499 and Pandemic means for the future of comics.

Eventually though, the chat's attention drifted towards towards "Puma Fist", someone's who had been in Frog's chat for several weeks now directing all sorts of insolence towards Comicsgate's Frog Fuhrer. The critiques did not end at chat invetive though, as Puma Fist has gone on to start his own obscure youtube channel, filled with many Richard C. Meyer-style phone rants to the effect of Frog and all the Comicsgaters being grifters as well as calling out the moon landing and unspecified events that happened during World War II as hoaxes that never happened. Right on the heels of debating Nerdette, Frog girds himself for another confrontation with a detractor.

Puma Fist opens by asking if Frog has beef with him over his call out videos. After some discourse over Puma Fist being a customer (no) and Frog blocking him on youtube (that was a janny) and twitter (he was annoying), the former begins to present his case of Frog being a grifter in the form of a twofold argument: the lack of perceived value of Frog's comics and paraphernalia like trading cards and towels as well as the misuse of the amount of bucks, the payola Frog is raking in.

Frog's first counterargument is that his trading cards having high resale price on eBay and that therefore he is creating items of legitimate value. Puma Fist explains that this is simply because of his powerful personal following. Frog argues that 'value' is completely subjective - especially in the collector/speculator market - and that the point is customers are getting their money's worth since they're able to recoup their expenses.

Unable to establish a metric of objective value to counter Frog's assertion of high value premium trading cards and beach towels, Puma Fist moves on to his second point of attack; that Frog and Young Rippa are grifters because they aren't using the money they grift to actually fight the SJWs. Frog (obviously) contends that he is. If they were, Puma Fist argues, they'd be employing the strategy Puma lied out of hiring pencilers, inkers, colorists, writers and starting their own distribution/publishing company (it's unclear if Puma Fist is aware that those are two completely different things) and I guess personally transporting comics to retail shops so they can publish their own 22-page monthly floppies. Instead of heeding Puma Fist's sage directives on how to defeat the SJW comic industry, Frog has become decadent and used the money that could have been spent doing that instead eating langoustines and attending doja cat concerts, living high on the hog as bougeois rich, overall engaging in unseemly conspicuous consumption and so confirming himself as grifter.

Frog starts getting defensive of his patronage of incredibly old lounge singers and eating of buttered fish. The rest of the argument Frog answers by articulating his belief that in the long term, "quality > quantity" makes simple business sense over the comic equivalent of shovelware: graphic novels like Watchmen and Sandman are DC's #1 and #2 highest selling graphic novels for 30 years running - and that's the sort of money he's interested in. The rest of Puma Fist's sort of bears addressing, but not really because Puma fucked it up the moment he started speaking truth to power and trying to argue that starting a comic book distribution company after 1972 was a big brain move. The debate coming to a natural close, he begins yells "THAT' WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT" over and over until he was ejected from the stream.

Next on the call-in show is "Patrick T" to voice his own personal dissatisfaction with the Comicsgate leader. For the past few weeks after the stream with Robert Romano discussing ESG law, Patrick has since been inundating Frog with $2-5 superchats to start talking about how HR25, a proposed flat tax regulation, would solve all of America's social and economic woes forever. Frog was happy to accept the dollars, but slowly started putting his foot down that this is an entertainment show and nobody wants to go over an 89-page tax plan proposition. Undeterred, Patrick kept up the superchats, made in an increasingly demanding tone as he suspected Frog was becoming willfully blind to the truth of flat tax salvation. Frog enjoined the tax-minded Comicsgater to shut up. Things have reached a head and the call-in show was the perfect opportunity to make things clear.



Apropos for a schizoposter, Patrick starts streaming directly from the woods (dead body offscream) where he calmly insists Frog read up on HR25. Frog gently explains that he while he respects Patrick's patronage, he aint running a fucking tax law discussion show here. Patrick is understanding, but it's very important. He has to do it. Frog says fine he'll do it, but after the show. Mollified by this, Patrick T departs (for now).

However, I must admit I don't get the concept of unscreened callers on a YouTube stream. Maybe I'm paranoid/pussy but that seems like it could go south and become real gay, really quickly... or worse, boring.

Schizoposters are the lifeblood of Comicsgate and, God willling, always will be. The alternatives are more boring than you could possibly imagine.

Which is an absurd position to take. I don't think there is a single person in this thread, no matter how much they dislike FROG, that could argue that with a straight face. Somebody like @Mister Dongs or @Smug Freiza can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the criticism over FROG has always concerns the execution of CG as a reactionary movement. Not that there is absolutely nothing that happened in mainstream comics to react against. The circles back to the idea that Nerdette just didn't leave CG, but might have also gone SJW and accepted the mainstream narrative wholesale. There is a pretty clear distinction KF criticism and SJW criticism.

My contention was that Comicsgate as a purely reactionary movement ran its course way back when Marvel Comics' employees (including their EIC Joe Quesada) personally addressed Richard C. Meyer and (paraphrasing) flat out said "We don't care if you don't like it or not. Complain all you like, we will not change"; Marvel and the comics industry as a whole made it crystal clear that simply complaining about or boycotting their shitty comics was just screaming into the blockbotted wind. This begged the question of, given that merely reacting to the problem was insufficient, where to go from here? Do they abandon the cause altogether? Crowdfund billboard rentals about Mags Visaggio's beard stubble? Strap a bomb onto Nasser and send him into the Marvel Bullpen? There were more possibilities in what direction this could have escalated in than most people think.

The consensus that the majority of both critics and creators in Comicsgate arrived at though was that they should put their critiques about the mainstream into practice and prove that their business principles on how to engage and retain customers were superior, and also make a shitload of money in the process. Mostly because of that last part. This was the mindset of the time when Frog was going on about Comicsgate being an "apolitical" (consumerist-populist) movement, sometimes aggressively so. Tristen (along with others like JSG, Perch, Engletine, etc) felt that shifting from criticism was a mistake.

Since then both parties have shown political change, with Frog developing the rudimentary basics of an ideological framework after years of dealing with the consequences of unchecked mob rule, and Nerdette completely reversing her positions altogether.

 

[Ike Aim]

Schizoposters are the lifeblood of Comicsgate and, God willling, always will be. The alternatives are more boring than you could possibly imagine.

I can imagine a lot. I used to watch member streams for a variety of YouTubers. @FROG made several arful choices with who he brought on for that one but he hasn't always been so lucky and I suspect he'd be even less lucky if he tried turning it into a regular thing. I could be wrong, though. I suppose that's where I was going with the short bus concept, but admittedly that is a half baked idea. One of his best potential bus drivers suffered injury while simping and is apparently maimed. It's tough to watch. The poor guy can barely walk on his way to find a better class of grift. It really is nonsense what they say about men and their reluctance to show weakness.