Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Kujo Jotaro]

I think I said this earlier in the thread, but then what's your their lifestyle like? So these are just shut in weirdos who don't go anywhere or do anything, have no idea how to navigate in the world, generally have no idea what they're doing, but they want woman? For what?

Incels are lonely, they're alienated, they feel frustrated and powerless, they're bored, they lack goals, and instead of addressing all these other more challenging issues they ignore all of them and convince themselves a woman is going to show up and make their life not suck rather than figuring out how to make their life not suck first.

I'm not totally unsympathetic here, I'm a lonely weirdo too, I know it feels terrible, but refusing to rationally assess the issue is not going to help anyone.


Absolutely 100%, social fragmentation has been a disaster across the board and it's the root cause of probably the majority of our issues both socially and economically these days: it's wreaking havok in people's minds, health, and ability to connect to one another, and it neuters the middle class in their ability to take collective action against the economic elite.
That's why I refer to this entire thing as a socioeconomic issue.

That's the thing, even if a woman agrees to be with you (which again isn't the big problem here) how are you supposed to even consider building a family and raise healthy, happy kids without community or social security? This is an issue that's far, far bigger than someone's inability to get laid or w/e.

If a man is a millennial or an older gen z, they need to start trying to figure out how to bring people together and become leaders who can navigate the landscape we live in.

What nobody needs them to do is give in to their infantile impulses to turn on their neighbors and potential allies, and cry about how they aren't being handed enough.


He's aggressive because you sound like a whiny bitch trying to blame women, the touchy feely things who'll already be naming your first 5 children together by the time you smile at each other from across the room, for the fact your life is unhappy and they don't want to be involved with it.

That's pretty pitiful, and acting pitiful tends to go against most men.

 

[Agarathium1066]

Just cut your consumption down from 10 to 4 a week. I guarantee that you'll have more women than you could possibly know what to do with.

Improving your diet won't make you less of a creeper or a weirdass. It's a good idea anyway but it can only lightly cushion the reaction of when you open your mouth and start being fucking strange.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I was thinking women had a lack of interests in general, they don't get passionate about things in the same way that men do, and I can't say that Netflix and shopping are really things that excite me.

In the days before social media you had dating sites that allowed you to message women freely and it was still a nightmare for men, so Tinder and the other similar apps are truly dire. If I have to ever see "I want a real man" "I am not looking for one night stands anymore" "My child will always come first" "If you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best" ever again I'm going to put a hose through the car window.

It is safe to say that so many men are going to die alone and for young men they have two paths. The first is to enter degenerate Discord communities and become a furry troon and pretend you are happier being your own woman. The second is to live through the loneliness and jealously until your sex drive dies down and you go MGTOW. Neither is a great option but at least you get to keep your dick with the latter.

Where's the option where you become an insurrectionist and slay your enemies and seize their women for your harem?

 

[Ultrapenguin]

Now at the same time, a lot of incel type of guys don't do themselves favours in that they don't take legitimate advice to help their personal lots in life. While it's true that you can't just do enough dumbbell curls to change a 3/10 face into [insert a Hollywood actor that all the ladies are creaming themselves over in 2022] you can do things to positively help your appearance. While it's good to be realistic about your station in life, too many of them don't even make an attempt; like a 400lb obese person giving up on changing their diet because they suddenly don't have the body of an NFL cornerback (not a typo for those of you who don't know much about football) after a week of cutting out Mountain Dew and Hot Pockets.

But I think that's the real difference.

The kind of guy who's going to be most successful isn't the one who stops eating hot pockets and gets fit because he's trying to impress women, the most popular will be guys who do it because they care about their well being and ability to excel in the world, and it's gross to live like that, with impressing people being secondary.

Which makes sense, if a dude is just doing shit to hook in women, then either they're going to stop as soon as they find someone and they'll be back to living like a slob, or they're going to cheat because their lifestyle is contingent on the chase. Plus it's very gay to let women dictate how you live.

View attachment 3743452

I assume you're suggesting I'm both mentally untouchable and have a large penis comparable to a BBC?

Thank you, I appreciate that friend.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Improving your diet won't make you less of a creeper or a weirdass. It's a good idea anyway but it can only lightly cushion the reaction of when you open your mouth and start being fucking strange.

People don't watch movies anymore? Just learn how to copy cool people on TV screens and translate it to IRL.

 

[Agarathium1066]

People don't watch movies anymore? Just learn how to copy cool people on TV screens and translate it to IRL.

If you can't figure out how to act around people that's a hell of a lot better than just rolling up to a woman and just bursting out with FBI crime statistics.

 

[Protistology]

I've struggled with faith but see the necessity of it to the point I'm basically pushing any sort of spirituality that would take.

Hello Nietzsche.

Where's the option where you become an insurrectionist and slay your enemies and seize their women for your harem?

Just Islammaxx bro.

If you can't figure out how to act around people that's a hell of a lot better than just rolling up to a woman and just bursting out with FBI crime statistics.

It doesn't fucking matter what you say. I met a woman in college by drunkly ranting about Smedley Butler and the military industrial complex starting wars of aggression though their lobbies in Washington. You just have to avoid the JQ.

 

[Local Fed]

the most popular will be guys who do it because they care about their well being and ability to excel in the world

I was using diet and appearance since it's kind of the most obvious change that people can make (especially if one's focus is primarily on gaining sex.) The part of your post that I bolded brings up a key point though for a lot of these guys, that they really don't believe that they can excel in the world as it is. This is a thing that I've seen many talk about is something which I think has merit when looked at realistically (once again, something that some incels take overboard and go past realistic views and into worst case scenarios.)

In a hyper competitive social world where there's simultaneously endless easy (note: I'm not saying they're all quality ones, and I'm also talking in the context of cheap sex) options for women and also therefore increased value for guys deemed to be at the top, the guys who are finding themselves in the incel camp look at the situation as basically insurmountable to them and often develop a crabs in a bucket mentality, if only for themselves.

I think there is also a general (but more understandable for the younger guys) immaturity component regarding the above where they may be dealt a weak hand in terms of looks, and feel pissed off (about the situation) when they see the guys who got dealt good hands and have far easier access to female attention and validation. There's surely always been the general jealousy among people in that aspect, but in such an online world I think it's also far easier for them to get a complex about this, much like we hear young girls and women get them.

tl;dr - I'm not saying that there often aren't flaws (many manageable) but I'm just saying that a lot of the broader discussion in society that I see regarding incels seems to both be hysterical and malicious (neither of which I'm accusing you of being, for the record.)

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Hello Nietzsche.

Just Islammaxx bro.

It doesn't fucking matter what you say. I met a woman in college by drunkly ranting about Smedley Butler and the military industrial complex starting wars of aggression though their lobbies in Washington. You just have to avoid the JQ.

I autistically rambled to my first girlfriend about Emperor Maximiliano and Benito Juarez and how both were honorable men, while laying on my bed, until she suddenly grabbed me and started making out.

She said it was "the only way to stop me from talking."

 

[xX_rAcE_wAr_420_Xx]

It's a difficult problem to sort out, because it sounds autistic to say that MGTOW is right, but at the same time it's hard to nail down a good approach to dating in the age of social media and other societal oddities of our age. Even if every girl doesn't have 50 guys in her Instagram DMs trying to send her dick pics, as someone accurately pointed out earlier in the thread, modern romantic relationships are framed in the context that young people are immature, you grow as you get older, and there's always someone better out there. There's pretty much zero emphasis on working to make a relationship successful, finding someone compatible young and growing as people together, or that marriage actually is a lifetime commitment.

I know any retard can blogpost, but seriously look at the tone of this: https://thriveworks.com/blog/pros-cons-starter-marriage/. Even literal marriage is viewed as this low-commitment thing that you can just break off if it's working, and there's no shame in walking away from it. I'm not really sure who you blame here; are people just terrible at this without the gun of eternal hellfire pointed at the back of their head? Are all men eternal manchildren who refuse to step up and be worthy of marriage? Are women colossal e-whores who want to ride the cock carousel forever?

It seems like things are just broadly fucked, manifesting in a variety of ways but with an unclear root cause. Have people just lost a sense of community, had their perspectives on the world poisoned by media and the Internet such that politics is complete cancer, and been thrust into an economic situation that's perilous for most people? Are we just in the middle of a period where, for like 40 years, things got kind of fucky-wucky as our way of life realigns to some brave new equilibrium?

 

[God of Nothing]

It's a difficult problem to sort out, because it sounds autistic to say that MGTOW is right

they are right
that is the most depressing thing about this situation

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

It turns out fucking TAKEOUT is considered an "interest/hobby," officially as a category, on some dating apps.

 

[Ser Prize]

Didn't some figures drop earlier this/last year showing that male loneliness is rapidly getting worse? I think past a point you can't say that all those guys are just greasey weirdos.

 

[God of Nothing]

Didn't some figures drop earlier this/last year showing that male loneliness is rapidly getting worse? I think past a point you can't say that all those guys are just greasey weirdos.

results i get bring up toxic masculinity
let's just ignore how our ever increasingly anti-male social environment and the existence of technology fucks with the way we normally interact

 

[Crysocyan]

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Matthew 6:30-34

As the wolves have their wives, you shall have a mate insomuch as you trust in the Lord.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

It turns out fucking TAKEOUT is considered an "interest/hobby," officially as a category, on some dating apps.

I bet you at least half of the profiles on those trash apps are bots or fake. The real solution is a 1999 Suzuki Grand Vitara. If you're fancy fag, then a P38 Range and if you're weeb fag, a Land Cruiser.

 

[Equivocal_Iki]

There's more for people to relate to than ever. No longer you have to get some woman who's opposite of your tastes, but bear with it because it's all you can get. The only problem is that everyone is fat. If everyone could just manage a healthy BMI, it'd be a renascence in dating.

 

[AngryItalianAmerican]

Improving your diet won't make you less of a creeper or a weirdass. It's a good idea anyway but it can only lightly cushion the reaction of when you open your mouth and start being fucking strange.

Women can get away with being weird assholes.

Guys too, just have confidence. However you are able to find it is up to you.

 

[God of Nothing]

There's more for people to relate to than ever. No longer you have to get some woman who's opposite of your tastes, but bear with it because it's all you can get. The only problem is that everyone is fat. If everyone could just manage a healthy BMI, it'd be a renascence in dating.

i am skin and bones
how hard is it to switch sweets out for fruit, red meat for white meat, and not waste money on fast food?

 

[Equivocal_Iki]

i am skin and bones
how hard is it to switch sweets out for fruit, red meat for white meat, and not waste money on fast food?

I get that cooking for yourself is better than eating out, but what's this red meat vs white meat thing? Chicken's far cheaper than steak (though I cook pork now because steak got too expensive).