Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

That's the thing though, women are not stupid about how male attention works. They know why they're getting a bunch of dms and they know how to stop it if they want to. If a woman is getting a bunch of unsolicited advances and does nothing to curtail it, she enjoys it on some level. It's like women who wear low cut shirts and pretend to not know why they get so much attention. They know full well what's going on and they enjoy it, but act ignorant to avoid the social repercussions of being an attention whore. Same thing with the dms, they may pretend to hate it but if they leave their dms open anyway then they're enjoying the attention. That's a huge red flag.
Fair enough.

we don't live in a time of security.
NGL stopped reading your post here; perhaps you live in a third world shithole because up until about 2-3 years ago we lived in the most secure period of history ever. Even the last few years have been, relative to the rest of human history, incredibly secure. There is insecurity on the horizon, but most people have no clue of it or what threatens their hedonistic paradise.
 
The standards of women haven't increased, if anything they seem more receptive than ever. However since humanity has existed, what they've needed is a sense of security and someone who they feel like they can trust to look out for them, which they absolutely can't with incels.
If incels were trustworthy, they'd acknowledge getting a woman to like them is the least of their problems, and they'd be extremely hesitant about the idea of taking on a partner who they can't take care of.

If you're a man who acts like a man who makes the people around you feel secure, women will like you. That's natural, that's how it's supposed to work.
All women aren't the same. They're individuals you misogynist.
 
Something like 30% of men under 30 qualify as incels now. 10+ years ago you were talking about maybe 5% of men who were exceptionally ugly or weird, but now it's more like 30-40%
I just wanted to note, historically this shit causes revolutions.
The last thing you want is a bunch of angry men with nothing to do and no future. We're getting there, slowly but surely.
 
2) Fixation on one topic bordering with autism. Almost all of them are fixed on some autistic shit, like WH40k, poltardism, anime, IT, the history of WWII, battleships, or whatever. Having a hobby of interest is great but being unable to speak about anything other than your fixation sucks.
The funny thing is, now his fixations have bled into mine. I've watched more anime with this man in the last 2 years than I ever had in my life prior to meeting him. I'm more emotionally invested in some of these animes than I'd care to admit.

Word of advice: If you're unable to stop having regularly programmed autistic screeching over your fixations, find a girl who either has the same fixation as you OR is willing to involve herself in said fixation 110%.

3) Desperation. When a random woman appears and happens to be mildly polite they become desperatly attached. I personally know one guy who was that pathetic that he called at nights to some girl who has never been his GF and whined how he is going to kill himself because no chick wanna dates him. The girl was his collegue who had a carelessness to smile at him.
I agree with this. Desperation is not only a turn off for women, but it can get scary real fucking quick if you don't know how far the guy is willing to go with it. (Regular run of the mill incel or "I'm going to skin you and wear you like a skin suit" incel?) I've dealt with this for awhile, even from grown men when I was very clearly underage at the time. Don't be so desperate for female attention that you give off Jeffrey Dahmer vibes, because if she has friends, word of mouth spreads quickly and you're going to lose out on other potential dating opportunities.
 
My sister is the biggest normie ever her hobbies are:

Watching Netflix
Going to an activity class craft/winery/boxer-cise etc
Going on trip overseas
Going to a Movie/concert/restaurant

She doesn't have any preferences or favorites, she just goes with what shes heard is the big thing lately online.

If all the Womens sites told her Nazi cosplay was the big thing, she probably go do it for a day.
Bro I made a dating app account again recently, inspired by the memory that it takes no bravery at all, but forgetting how soul-destroying it is. It's actually gone a little better, got a match but no message and a few likes (probably fatties, if I haven't matched with them). I insist on using it in my stupid, inefficient way, which is to actually look at women's profiles because I actually care about that, and loading my profile up with my hobbies, cat photo, formal photo of me, etc., because the way I see it, I know that's going to put off a decent chunk of women, but I'm not Chad Thundercock so I can't pull off the dog-and-bros photo stuff and I don't think I'd really want that kind of vapid bint. I want to get whatever rare one might see my instruments or kayaking or whatever it is and be interested in the personality.

Well, anyways, these women are so samey. In the past I'd wonder about how so many women physically look real similar, this sort of generic but uninspiring prettiness, sea of blondes usually (natural or not), and I'd feel like a sociopath thinking how they looked like they all came out of a factory, but I mentioned it a few times to other people and they'd agree. And that same sort of woman always has the same shit on their profile. Some sassy comment, some shit about how much htey love the gym/sportsball (probably trying to suck up to the men they're looking to attract), wine or whiskey or the bar, The Office, listen to contemporary Black rap or to contemporary country depending on whether or not they're a hick.

And it's not that I'm dead set against those things, but that's all there is, and it's all of them. Sometimes some pop up that do seem to have a bit more going on. What I'd say there's a real lack of is the women who have intellectual or artistic interests, or music interests that aren't "I listen to Childish Gambino." They don't exist, at least not on the app.

I think there may be this extreme segmentation where the hambeasts (male and female) go on out of desperation and Chad and Stacy go on there because they know they can fuck high quality (for their standards) people easily.
 
Bro I made a dating app account again recently, inspired by the memory that it takes no bravery at all, but forgetting how soul-destroying it is. It's actually gone a little better, got a match but no message and a few likes (probably fatties, if I haven't matched with them). I insist on using it in my stupid, inefficient way, which is to actually look at women's profiles because I actually care about that, and loading my profile up with my hobbies, cat photo, formal photo of me, etc., because the way I see it, I know that's going to put off a decent chunk of women, but I'm not Chad Thundercock so I can't pull off the dog-and-bros photo stuff and I don't think I'd really want that kind of vapid bint. I want to get whatever rare one might see my instruments or kayaking or whatever it is and be interested in the personality.

Well, anyways, these women are so samey. In the past I'd wonder about how so many women physically look real similar, this sort of generic but uninspiring prettiness, sea of blondes usually (natural or not), and I'd feel like a sociopath thinking how they looked like they all came out of a factory, but I mentioned it a few times to other people and they'd agree. And that same sort of woman always has the same shit on their profile. Some sassy comment, some shit about how much htey love the gym/sportsball (probably trying to suck up to the men they're looking to attract), wine or whiskey or the bar, The Office, listen to contemporary Black rap or to contemporary country depending on whether or not they're a hick.

And it's not that I'm dead set against those things, but that's all there is, and it's all of them. Sometimes some pop up that do seem to have a bit more going on. What I'd say there's a real lack of is the women who have intellectual or artistic interests, or music interests that aren't "I listen to Childish Gambino." They don't exist, at least not on the app.

I think there may be this extreme segmentation where the hambeasts (male and female) go on out of desperation and Chad and Stacy go on there because they know they can fuck high quality (for their standards) people easily.
I keep having the urge to try it again, still knowing that I won’t like the outcome, but everytime I return it somehow gets worse. Last time I tried only about 40% of the accounts even had bios. Also it confirmed to me that the app artificially limits your options, I’m in a town with a huge population of people my age in university and nearly all the accounts I get are at least 45 minutes away.
 

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Bro I made a dating app account again recently, inspired by the memory that it takes no bravery at all, but forgetting how soul-destroying it is. It's actually gone a little better, got a match but no message and a few likes (probably fatties, if I haven't matched with them). I insist on using it in my stupid, inefficient way, which is to actually look at women's profiles because I actually care about that, and loading my profile up with my hobbies, cat photo, formal photo of me, etc., because the way I see it, I know that's going to put off a decent chunk of women, but I'm not Chad Thundercock so I can't pull off the dog-and-bros photo stuff and I don't think I'd really want that kind of vapid bint. I want to get whatever rare one might see my instruments or kayaking or whatever it is and be interested in the personality.

Honestly, had the same issue going back to trying online dating. Whats important to keep in mind that these apps are designed for PROFIT. They want to keep you on them as long as possible. Maybe the next one will be a match. Maybe I wont be lonely anymore. Spend money to continue getting matches, etc. There's so many limiters on who you can see just so they can get your money. And even then spending money doesn't even guarentee you'll meet someone.

I am convinced most accounts on dating apps are fake anyways. I've only had success 20% of the time. You put yourself out there online and its meaningless. I always attract either trans women or really overweight women and both arent my type lmao

This kinda circular despair of loneliness kinda reinforces that the incel ideology will always remain in society. Love/acceptance is a basic human need and some people feel the desire to express that extreme loneliness like a retard (aka incels).
 
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Bro I made a dating app account again recently, inspired by the memory that it takes no bravery at all, but forgetting how soul-destroying it is. It's actually gone a little better, got a match but no message and a few likes (probably fatties, if I haven't matched with them). I insist on using it in my stupid, inefficient way, which is to actually look at women's profiles because I actually care about that, and loading my profile up with my hobbies, cat photo, formal photo of me, etc., because the way I see it, I know that's going to put off a decent chunk of women, but I'm not Chad Thundercock so I can't pull off the dog-and-bros photo stuff and I don't think I'd really want that kind of vapid bint. I want to get whatever rare one might see my instruments or kayaking or whatever it is and be interested in the personality.

Well, anyways, these women are so samey. In the past I'd wonder about how so many women physically look real similar, this sort of generic but uninspiring prettiness, sea of blondes usually (natural or not), and I'd feel like a sociopath thinking how they looked like they all came out of a factory, but I mentioned it a few times to other people and they'd agree. And that same sort of woman always has the same shit on their profile. Some sassy comment, some shit about how much htey love the gym/sportsball (probably trying to suck up to the men they're looking to attract), wine or whiskey or the bar, The Office, listen to contemporary Black rap or to contemporary country depending on whether or not they're a hick.

And it's not that I'm dead set against those things, but that's all there is, and it's all of them. Sometimes some pop up that do seem to have a bit more going on. What I'd say there's a real lack of is the women who have intellectual or artistic interests, or music interests that aren't "I listen to Childish Gambino." They don't exist, at least not on the app.

I think there may be this extreme segmentation where the hambeasts (male and female) go on out of desperation and Chad and Stacy go on there because they know they can fuck high quality (for their standards) people easily.

I was thinking women had a lack of interests in general, they don't get passionate about things in the same way that men do, and I can't say that Netflix and shopping are really things that excite me.

In the days before social media you had dating sites that allowed you to message women freely and it was still a nightmare for men, so Tinder and the other similar apps are truly dire. If I have to ever see "I want a real man" "I am not looking for one night stands anymore" "My child will always come first" "If you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best" ever again I'm going to put a hose through the car window.

It is safe to say that so many men are going to die alone and for young men they have two paths. The first is to enter degenerate Discord communities and become a furry troon and pretend you are happier being your own woman. The second is to live through the loneliness and jealously until your sex drive dies down and you go MGTOW. Neither is a great option but at least you get to keep your dick with the latter.
 
Thank you for this post, boomers will never understand the hellscape the sexual revolution has created.
I'm gen x and you're demented.

You think that it's destructive to your confidence that your ladyfriend has access to dating apps? Do you not understand how meeting people through normal social circles works? When I was young and dating, everyone I dated was constantly aware that they could be instantly replaced, because the people I could replace them with were right there at the same parties. Young attractive women always have tons of options.

One of the things that is different about today is that unattractive women don't just stay home and mope; they have online social groups telling them they deserve a great man and they have dating apps they can use to meet other shutins and go have awkward first dates at applebees. So I guess those girls have more options than they did in the past? But you wouldn't even have been dating them in the past because they would have been home with their cats.
 
I'm gen x and you're demented.

You think that it's destructive to your confidence that your ladyfriend has access to dating apps? Do you not understand how meeting people through normal social circles works? When I was young and dating, everyone I dated was constantly aware that they could be instantly replaced, because the people I could replace them with were right there at the same parties. Young attractive women always have tons of options.

One of the things that is different about today is that unattractive women don't just stay home and mope; they have online social groups telling them they deserve a great man and they have dating apps they can use to meet other shutins and go have awkward first dates at applebees. So I guess those girls have more options than they did in the past? But you wouldn't even have been dating them in the past because they would have been home with their cats.
Bruh you come from the same generation as my mother, you're a boomer to me.

Won't lie, didn't read past the first few lines of your post because you came off incredibly aggressive over something you really shouldn't care much about at all. Like most elderly individuals you clearly lack the capacity to comprehend that the world and environment around you shifts over time. You think because of your senility that you've got some wisdom to dispense, but I assure you most elderly people have nothing of substance to say regarding the social climate in today's youth.
 

Memes aside, speaking for the USA, I think the problem is we don't get committed as young as we used to. Now that people are trying to minmax their relationships, we end up stuck in the loop of "I can always do better, let's roll the dice again, I'm sick of them" or whatever. Add to it the breakdown of family and other overlapping social networks like real lifelong friend groups, people at the bar, church (or any other faith, don't derail), extended family, and even friends through work, and it's no wonder people are fucked up. Nobody's being taught what to do, and loneliness makes people neurotic.

Now people don't see their family or end up estranged, nobody commits because of fucked up incentives, people just do shit online, bars are hit or miss, and hobbies are hit or miss.

The only hangouts I can stand anymore involve motorcycles or hitting each other. I've struggled with faith but see the necessity of it to the point I'm basically pushing any sort of spirituality that would take.

Fuck, trying to replace this is why people cling so fucking desperately to ideologies and isms and facebook/reddit bullshit politics or the identity shells game that's seeped into fucking everything. Nobody has real friends or family, so they want their internet backpats and labels to feel "valid".
 
I mean... what if wethey DON'T though?
I think I said this earlier in the thread, but then what's your their lifestyle like? So these are just shut in weirdos who don't go anywhere or do anything, have no idea how to navigate in the world, generally have no idea what they're doing, but they want woman? For what?

Incels are lonely, they're alienated, they feel frustrated and powerless, they're bored, they lack goals, and instead of addressing all these other more challenging issues they ignore all of them and convince themselves a woman is going to show up and make their life not suck rather than figuring out how to make their life not suck first.

I'm not totally unsympathetic here, I'm a lonely weirdo too, I know it feels terrible, but refusing to rationally assess the issue is not going to help anyone.

Absolutely 100%, social fragmentation has been a disaster across the board and it's the root cause of probably the majority of our issues both socially and economically these days: it's wreaking havok in people's minds, health, and ability to connect to one another, and it neuters the middle class in their ability to take collective action against the economic elite.
That's why I refer to this entire thing as a socioeconomic issue.

That's the thing, even if a woman agrees to be with you (which again isn't the big problem here) how are you supposed to even consider building a family and raise healthy, happy kids without community or social security? This is an issue that's far, far bigger than someone's inability to get laid or w/e.

If a man is a millennial or an older gen z, they need to start trying to figure out how to bring people together and become leaders who can navigate the landscape we live in.

What nobody needs them to do is give in to their infantile impulses to turn on their neighbors and potential allies, and cry about how they aren't being handed enough.

Bruh you come from the same generation as my mother, you're a boomer to me.

Won't lie, didn't read past the first few lines of your post because you came off incredibly aggressive over something you really shouldn't care much about at all. Like most elderly individuals you clearly lack the capacity to comprehend that the world and environment around you shifts over time. You think because of your senility that you've got some wisdom to dispense, but I assure you most elderly people have nothing of substance to say regarding the social climate in today's youth.
He's aggressive because you sound like a whiny bitch trying to blame women, the touchy feely things who'll already be naming your first 5 children together by the time you smile at each other from across the room, for the fact your life is unhappy and they don't want to be involved with it.

That's pretty pitiful, and acting pitiful tends to go against most men.
 
Absolutely 100%, social fragmentation has been a disaster across the board and it's the root cause of probably the majority of our issues both socially and economically these days: it's wreaking havok in people's minds, health, and ability to connect to one another, and it neuters the middle class in their ability to take collective action against the economic elite.
That's why I refer to this entire thing as a socioeconomic issue.

That's the thing, even if a woman agrees to be with you (which again isn't the big problem here) how are you supposed to even consider building a family and raise healthy, happy kids without community or social security? This is an issue that's far, far bigger than someone's inability to get laid or w/e.

If a man is a millennial or an older gen z, they need to start trying to figure out how to bring people together and become leaders who can navigate the landscape we live in.

What nobody needs them to do is give in to their infantile impulses to turn on their neighbors and potential allies, and cry about how they aren't being handed enough.

Null should unironically stream Fight Club for the grownups.

Again, memes aside, we badly need solidarity and real community building, and the likes of that bolt-of-the-blue "Hold my beer" community building looks like the only way to do it without it getting colonized by the very forces that created the fractured shitheap society we're in right now.

Naturally, the second you see too many working class people organize, you'll see the powers that be fucking panic, for obvious reasons. I'm also not advocating for a literal Fight club. But my god we need something and I can't yet articulate what it should look like.
 
A bit disorganized, but here are my thoughts:

I personally find the whole "incel" designation to be confusing at best in how it's used nowadays. I see too many instances of people acting like because a guy can't get laid, he must then be a mass shooter in waiting; simultaneously the term has also devolved into having no reasonable meaning like in the way that many other terms have been bastardized. Disagree with women? You're obviously an incel. Criticize women? Only incels do that. Bring up men's problems or the state of modern gender dynamics? Shut the fuck up and stop whining, incel. Inevitably, too, most who try to give a more nuanced take on the situation gets dismissed or shouted down by people who simply refuse to live in any world that isn't a retarded binary: you're either a future school shooter or you bend the knee and pretend that life in the western world is basically The Handmaid's Tale.

My experience when talking to a lot of self-described incels (or just guys who'd fit the description even if they don't apply the label to themselves) is that they're just socially inept, and often they got the short end of the genetic stick (short, balding at a young age, some just unfortunate facial aesthetics that there's nothing that can really be done for, etc.) Another big thing that the mainstream loves to ignore is that LOT of these guys are brown (I mean the comment section on any attractive woman's social media profile should clue you into this, but somehow people still ignore it when discussing the broader topic.) A lot of them come from backgrounds where their socialization that they do have is fucked.

It's not to say that there aren't some incels who actually have a severe and actual violent hatred of women (and men who are sexually successful, for that matter) but they seem to be such a very fringe minority of that group and they're frankly an easy boogeyman (along with MGTOW guys and MRA's) for people (especially women) to heap shame upon and to then use to label a wider swath of men as.

Now at the same time, a lot of incel type of guys don't do themselves favours in that they don't take legitimate advice to help their personal lots in life. While it's true that you can't just do enough dumbbell curls to change a 3/10 face into [insert a Hollywood actor that all the ladies are creaming themselves over in 2022] you can do things to positively help your appearance. While it's good to be realistic about your station in life, too many of them don't even make an attempt; like a 400lb obese person giving up on changing their diet because they suddenly don't have the body of an NFL cornerback (not a typo for those of you who don't know much about football) after a week of cutting out Mountain Dew and Hot Pockets.
 
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