War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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Even the Chinks have condemned Russia's aggression in their own way.
lol that is a stretch. Exploiting Russia because they know they can get away with it is not the same as condemning them. China is plenty willing to work with them and make their own power plays on Russia. Sending Russia into China's arms was always a dangerous bit of this whole affair, and it will play out.

Then again China is under their own deserved scrutiny right now so we will see.
 
One of my favorite stories of America telling De Gaulle to fuck himself was when he was kicking American troops out of France and the Secretary of State for LBJ, Dean Rusk, was told by Johnson to ask De Gaulle if his order to remove all American service members included the graves of American soldiers from the military graves in France. De Gaulle looked at Rusk in complete shock before leaving the room, his face red and looking completely pissed off, one more nice little dig on that pompous cock sucker.

The best part of that story is Dean Rusk didn't want to do it, so LBJ drafted an executive order forcing him to do it, and that particular tidbit of "Oh Snap" is preserved in government records.
(Specifically, LBJ's EO required that Rusk get clarification if De Gaulle's demand for the removal of all American servicemembers also applied to Americans buried in french cemeteries)
De Gaulle was a egotistical, ungrateful piece of shit.

Ukraine strikes the black fleet with sea based drones.

Bad News: Losing the naval battle to a country without a navy.
Good News: If we keep telling ourselves Putin's dick tastes like chocolate, it could actually work.

well those are possible, but those imply that ukraine lost atleast 3 times as much if not more.

Where is that implied?
 
Germans pioneered rocket AA, what are you talking about? Acht-acht ended up being good too, so good that they put it on the Tiger.
That rocket AA was pretty mediocre, and stuff like the 15cm Geraet where they decided an autoloading 15cm AA gun was the sort of piece Germany needed (it was, but like everything German it was too big and expensive to be truly practical).

As to the 88mm, everyone did that with AA guns. The Soviet 85mm, the US 90mm and earlier the 3-inch gun, the Italians with their 90mm... Only one out were the British and that was because they were so obsessed with trying to shove the 17-pounder or something close to it in performance in a medium tank they couldn't accept their vehicles just weren't capable until the Centurion.
 
As to the 88mm, everyone did that with AA guns. The Soviet 85mm, the US 90mm and earlier the 3-inch gun, the Italians with their 90mm... Only one out were the British and that was because they were so obsessed with trying to shove the 17-pounder or something close to it in performance in a medium tank they couldn't accept their vehicles just weren't capable until the Centurion.
What are you talking about? The TOG 2 was a glorious battleship and the pride of the royal navy! Granted, they tried to use it as a tank, but that's beside the point.
 
What are you talking about? The TOG 2 was a glorious battleship and the pride of the royal navy! Granted, they tried to use it as a tank, but that's beside the point.
TOG II*, if we're being technical. And yes, that asterisk is actually important as it signifies an upgraded version of the TOGII.
 





From all across the political spectrum. No links from CNN though, sorry.
The first link is some drivel by a man who wrote the book America's Empire of Evil: Hitler's Posthumous Victory, and Why the Social Sciences Need to Change.

The second link is a repost from Sputnik News, a Russian state-owned paper.

The third link is some kvetching over muh Nazis and the overthrow of Yanukovych.

The fourth link also complains about muh Nazis, but focuses more on how bad Ukraine allegedly is, so the West should totally abandon it to avoid triggering Putin.

The fifth link is from the oh so relevant World Socialist Web Site and again mostly complains about muh Nazis.

So congratulations, you have proven that Russia uses the Western commie assets it inherited from the KGB. In pro-Russian 'far right' circles Ukrainians are accused of not being real nationalists and Azov is often accused of being either Jew controlled, CIA, Satanic or actually nationalistic, but too extreme. Recently the Satanic narrative and the need to 'de-Satanize' Ukraine has gained popularity in more mainstream right-wing circles.

Russian propagandists pick whatever narrative is most likely to make you support Russia, or at least not care about Ukraine. That this happens across the whole spectrum isn't a sign of sincerity or the correctness of their beliefs, but rather their cynicism.

Oh, and those articles don't prove that a coup even happened. If we are going to talk about foreign meddling in Ukraine, we should look at Russia first. Ukraine's military, bureaucracy and politics have been infiltrated and at times dominated by Russia since its independence. In 2014 and even in 2022, some openly defected to Russia or sabotaged Ukraine. There's an interesting Ukrainian YT channel with English subtitles that sometimes makes videos about policemen, soldiers, politicians and bureaucrats who betrayed Ukraine. Often these people expressed anti-Ukrainian and/or pro-Russian sentiments before the war.






I find it very suspicious that there were no background checks to catch these people. It seems like the right people were paid off to look the other way or maybe they supported this. I guess that a third option is that these sentiments were so widespread that it was impossible to crack down on them. It certainly doesn't seem as if pro-Russian people were suppressed, whether it be because of genuine tolerance or extensive Russian infiltration.
 
I find it very suspicious that there were no background checks to catch these people. It seems like the right people were paid off to look the other way or maybe they supported this. I guess that a third option is that these sentiments were so widespread that it was impossible to crack down on them. It certainly doesn't seem as if pro-Russian people were suppressed, whether it be because of genuine tolerance or extensive Russian infiltration.
But I was told they literally genocided "ethnic Russians"? Ukrainians could in fact have rounded them up and put them in the camps like US did with Japanese-Americans at one point.
But they didn't. For one, it's not as easy to tell the two apart as it would be with honest-to-god Muricans and Japanese. Secondly, they just aren't the kind of people to do that sort of thing.

For a multitude of obvious reasons there's far more fertile ground for Russian gay ops than there is for American infiltration.
Shared history, shared border, shared language etc.
 
Oh, and those articles don't prove that a coup even happened.

We know that a coup happened in 2014. Some people call it a "totally organic not at all influenced by CIA color revolution", but the fact that the elected government was undemocratically ousted is not in dispute. There is also no dispute that the Ukraine constitution was changed shortly thereafter, and that it was changed in a manner that guaranteed direct conflict with Russia. There is also no dispute that the US has been itching for another proxy war with Russia for years, and there is no dispute that the Biden family has had financial interest in Ukraine since he was Vice President (hence the Hunter Biden laptop being such a story).

So the only question is who financed it and pushed it along. You're denying any evidence of outside interference or funding, but you decline to provide any sources as to why everything was "totes organic".
 

Putin demands Ukraine honor no hit backs proposal for his warships. What a way to look weak, Russia. Imagine if the US demanded Germany honor a proposal to not attack landing ships at Normandy.
 
As to the 88mm, everyone did that with AA guns. The Soviet 85mm, the US 90mm and earlier the 3-inch gun, the Italians with their 90mm... Only one out were the British and that was because they were so obsessed with trying to shove the 17-pounder or something close to it in performance in a medium tank they couldn't accept their vehicles just weren't capable until the Centurion.
For the U.S.A. most of the War the production and use of the 90mm AA guns were tied up protecting CONUS from any possible air assault by the Axis. Wasn't until later in the War when the realization finally hit the Powers-that-be in D.C. no possible air assault or invasion is going to happen to CONUS. Afterwards the guns, their crews and supporting personnel were packed up and shipped off to the fight. And the U.S. Army armor finally had the chance and available production capacity to fiddle with, fitting the 90mm on their newer tank and tank destroyer designs and finally building the M26 Pershing.
 
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UA Interior Ministry advisor now claiming that Putin is reduced to a particularly pathetic blackmail of demanding Ukraine don't hurt his little boats again. The Turkish navy is far stronger than the remnants of the Black Sea Fleet.


Seminarians singing a patriotic song and the same at a faster tempo

source



Welcome for Kadyrov

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source
 
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lol that is a stretch.
The Chinese pointedly did not recognize Russia's annexation of Ukrainian territory, and have done nothing to openly flaunt America's trade embargoes. China isn't working with Russia; China is exploiting them. There is a difference. There is no real reciprocity here, other than Russia becoming China's personal bitch.

In other news, something else that happened while we were down that no one else mentioned is that almost all of Russia's gains in the Bakhmut direction from over the last 3 months were lost in like 24 hours. Good times.
 
The Chinese pointedly did not recognize Russia's annexation of Ukrainian territory, and have done nothing to openly flaunt America's trade embargoes. China isn't working with Russia; China is exploiting them. There is a difference. There is no real reciprocity here, other than Russia becoming China's personal bitch.

In other news, something else that happened while we were down that no one else mentioned is that almost all of Russia's gains in the Bakhmut direction from over the last 3 months were lost in like 24 hours. Good times.
And even if Russia somehow through the deaths of thousands managed to surround it, the town is strategically irrelevant.
 
De Gaulle was a egotistical, ungrateful piece of shit.

The other Allies wanted to print French Francs, backed by Allied gold, to issue to soldiers who went in on D-Day to use to buy supplies, bribe, and reward locals. They asked deGaulle to please issue a statement that the Free French Gov't was OK with this, and it was a temporary measure to help with victory. de Gaulle refused.
 
For Ukraine the town have been strategically useful as one massive tarbaby. Of which only guesses can be made as to why the Russians choose that town.
Commentators such as the ISW have been saying that the Bakhmut assault is a matter of perverse incentives. Wagner mercenaries are paid by the kilometer taken, so they go after what they think they can get (often wrongly) without any regard for larger strategic objectives. Also, Prigozhin is trying to show up the Ministry of Defense by making gains while the rest of the Russian army is getting beaten back, and again for this purpose it doesn't matter that the gains would be militarily inconsequential.

Anyhow, Prigozhin and his Wagner group are failing even at these goals, and are wasting power that could be used more effectively elsewhere. But maybe he's a good chef.
 
And even if Russia somehow through the deaths of thousands managed to surround it, the town is strategically irrelevant.
Yet all the Vatniks and Russiaboos seem to think Bakhmut is somehow the keystone that will cause the Ukrainian Army to collapse.

Bakhmut is going to fall anyday now for the last three months, and its all part of the plan; but every day the Ukrainian Army hasn't captured Kherson yet is ANOTHER failed offensive!
 
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Commentators such as the ISW have been saying that the Bakhmut assault is a matter of perverse incentives. Wagner mercenaries are paid by the kilometer taken, so they go after what they think they can get (often wrongly) without any regard for larger strategic objectives. Also, Prigozhin is trying to show up the Ministry of Defense by making gains while the rest of the Russian army is getting beaten back, and again for this purpose it doesn't matter that the gains would be militarily inconsequential.

Anyhow, Prigozhin and his Wagner group are failing even at these goals, and are wasting power that could be used more effectively elsewhere. But maybe he's a good chef.
The men lost by chef Prigozhin are substantially convicts fighting to live six months so Putin probably cares little just as long as they exist and fight. I suppose the hope is to exhaust UA's allies and hope he can try again later having learnt lessons. Putin just seems to be building his funeral pyre.
 
For the U.S.A. most of the War the production and use of the 90mm AA guns were tied up protecting CONUS from any possible air assault by the Axis. Wasn't until later in the War when the realization finally hit the Powers-that-be in D.C. no possible air assault or invasion is going to happen to CONUS. Afterwards the guns, their crews and supporting personnel were packed up and shipped off to the fight. And the U.S. Army armor finally had the chance and available production capacity to fiddle with, fitting the 90mm on their newer tank and tank destroyer designs and finally building the M26 Pershing.
Uh, define most of the war? Because the USA wasn't involved in combat until December of 1941. The 90mm was adopted in 1940 as part of our general re-armament just in case, by September of 1942 the Army was already requesting a new mount to allow its use as a dual-role gun, by May of 1943 that had become the standard production gun, and on June 1 1944 the M36 was accepted into service.

As to the 90mm gun itself, total production of all AA variants (M1/M1A1/M2) was 133,833, or six times the number of 88mm FlaK 18 guns the Germans produced (21,310) so even if we assume say, 75% of those guns were restricted to CONUS that's still 33,458 guns for use in both the Pacific and Europe. So no, production capacity was not lacking. Instead the issue was one Leslie J. McNair, who bitterly opposed any AT gun larger than 3-inches because he was a stubborn bastard who loved his artillery pieces and refused to cede any ground to the Army's tank advocates.

Further, armor was oddly enough not a serious threat to US forces, the bulk of German tanks being concentrated against the USSR, with the British being next in line, so up until after Operation Cobra and even after the primary armored opponents of the USA were Panzer IV's and StuG's, both of which were at rough parity with the 75mm armed Shermans. The number of Tiger and even Panthers we encountered at any given moment were extremely limited. There were even tank forces in Europe that upon being asked for reports on how their new 76mm armed Shermans fared against German tanks replied back that they hadn't found any to shoot at yet.

For Christ's sake, the USA built more four-engine B-24's than the Germans did twin-engined Ju 88's. The USA alone was 40% of the entire world's steel production in 1939. We could have diverted 60% of that to military production (leaving 40% for civilian needs) and still been able to out-produce the Germans in war materiel. The entire Axis combined was unable to match the US for steel output.
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So yes, we absolutely could devote most of our production to home defense and reserve stockpiles, because the USA had so fucking much production capacity it would have taken the rest of the world combined to out-produce us.
 
So yes, we absolutely could devote most of our production to home defense and reserve stockpiles, because the USA had so fucking much production capacity it would have taken the rest of the world combined to out-produce us.
That was true 75 years ago. Today, however, if it comes to a war between Russia/China and the US, Russia and China will out produce the US and its allies by an order of magnitude.

Also, Ukraine is losing no matter what the fantasy fiction writers here are saying.
It's the Ukrainians setting up military facilities in schools and civilian buildings using them as a shield.
Don't think so? Take a look at the Azov Battalion military manual or go and see the footage of the Ukrainian/Greek community refugees and see what they're saying. (They've already returned to Greece so, go right and question their bias)

As for Kyiv, Russian missile and drone strikes have crippled their energy infrastructure. But, it's ok because Ukrainian priminister says "...we shot down 44 of more than 50 missiles...". The operative words here are 'more than 50' considering 18 targets were confirmed hit how many is 'more'?

You can all join Trudeau in fellating Zelensky on national TV if you think the Ukraine or its supporters stand a chance at winning.
 
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