Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[teriyakiburns]

That same boy being allowed to wear a dress is being groomed, no question about it.

Especially when he's not just allowed, but actively encouraged by a close relative. Still pissed at my brother's mother in law for what she's done to my nephew...

 

[Roland TB-303]

If my future son wanted to put on a dress and dance around the house one afternoon I reckon that’d be fine as a once off. But if he wanted to start wearing them outside of the house, that’s where I’d draw the line.

 

[Mrs. Addams]

You're right to some degree but dress wearing? Nah, that's a line crosser. We have different clothes for different sexes for a reason.

If he wants a stuffed bear or she wants an army figurine that's fine though.

In the 1850s boys wore dresses. There's got to be more to this than specific articles of clothing.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

In the 1850s boys wore dresses. There's got to be more to this than specific articles of clothing.

Sure: culture. It isn't the 1850s anymore. We no longer have to put babies in bulky layers of reusable cloth for diapering, we have slim cut disposable diapers that fit under pants. The practical need for all non-toilet-using-infants to wear open-ended garments has passed.

If I put 2 pairs of jeans in front of you, both were "skinny" cut, both with the same inseam and waist measurements, could you tell which was intended for men and which was intended for women? Of course you could, without even thinking about it. Why? A combination of biological averages reflected in the cut of the pants (more room for hips in the women's cut, for instance) and the cultural norms around fashion.

Everyone knows this stuff, it's just people have been so conditioned by the "Free to be" boomer shit that they think they have to play dumb about it for some reason.

If you let a boy wear dresses or skirts where other people can see him, you've made him a target. You are making a declaration about who he is and what your family tolerates. Bad idea.

 

[glass_houses]

I think people get too hung up on clothes. I worked in a male dominated environment for twenty years and wore the allocated uniform of high vis, hard hats and steel caps. Most people assumed I was a raging lesbian when it became clear I wasn't there to hit on any of the guys. They were sort of right, but I wasn't there to make any statements about my sexuality, I was there because the money on high risk sites is a fuckton better. Also, my father (who was raised by a biopic worthy mother) had strong expectations of me living up to my grandmother's example, and I couldn't exactly do that in an office.

 

[2525ABC]

I feel like even with clothes, there’s shit that’s ok and shit that’s not. A little boy trying to walk around in mommy’s heels or getting his nails painted by an overenthusiastic younger sister is cute. That same boy being allowed to wear a dress is being groomed, no question about it.

Spoiler: Mild powerlevel

Not to mention, if you’re anything like our family, the former two are funny stories to reminisce on when you’re older

Gotta have a boy-in-dress exemption for pretend play...
Time honoured kid rules are that the smallest and weakest in the group MUST play the part of damsel-in-a-dress, it's just the law.

More seriously tho, be VERY careful about how you discourage a wee lad from dresses and sparkles. Humiliation fetish is a scary powerful thing that has created many cows, and it kicks in early.

Good parents ignore and redirect and end up with a cute anecdote for the wedding speeches.

Bad parents overreact (in either direction), the silly kid moment becomes THE DRESS AND SPARKLES INCIDENT and in 20 years time they get invited to give away the bride at a transbian polycule fluid bonding ceremony.

 

[Apis mellifera]

what else can I do apart from be a good parent?

If you have a daughter, let her have whatever tomboyish interests she might have, let her wear "boys'" clothes, let her cut her hair and go run outside in the mud, encourage her to pursue her interests in the sciences if that's her thing, a lot of the old fashioned dysphoria seems to come from GNC (tomboys/effeminate boys) children not being allowed to explore their interests fully. Also, keep her safe from sexual predators, pornography, and the dicks who will tell her that her only value as a woman is looking attractive and that she's inherently less valuable or competent, due to her sex.

Same goes for if you have a son, let him play with dolls, paint his nails, and grow his hair, and don't punish him for being emotional or sensitive.

With all the trans people I've spoken to over the years, the common thread for men and women is that the boys tend to be punished severely for being emotionally sensitive ("boys don't cry", and so forth), and liking traditionally "girly" things, and the girls tend to be tomboys or butches who are denied the ability to explore their interests and envy boys for being able to do the same, and are later sexualised and dehumanised too early. Sexual abuse or exposure to a BPD or narcissistic family member will also increase the chances of your kid becoming trans.



Basically, just explain that men and women (and girls and boys) are all just human at the end of the day, and you can have whatever career, interests, and personality you like, even if it doesn't conform to sex stereotypes/gender roles.

You're right to some degree but dress wearing? Nah, that's a line crosser. We have different clothes for different sexes for a reason.

If he wants a stuffed bear or she wants an army figurine that's fine though.

My childhood best friend used to wear my princess dresses and fairy wings, and push around a baby doll in a pram, when we were kids. When you're like 4-8 years old it doesn't really matter, you're just playing dress-up. He turned out a regular heterosexual man, for the record.

 

[frippery]

I've watched three sets of my friends deal with a young son who wants to wear a dress to school. We're talking five to seven years old. Each one has let their boys do it with some variation on a warning that they will get made fun of and it's up to them to deal with it. "Not everyone will understand or like it" etc. One got in a fight with his best friend, though they made up a day later. None of the boys wore a dress to school again.
There's a line between exploring your creativity at home and what society in general is going to accept, and it's a lesson we've all had to learn. For me, it wasn't crossing gender lines - it was experimenting with colorful makeup in middle school plus hoop earrings and I got called a whore for it, but it was basically the same thing as my friends' sons since there were no sexual feelings attached to it. Maybe my mom should have made me clean my face off before leaving the house for school but it probably would have just made me double down at that age. Sometimes it's best to let the harsh rays of reality deal with things.

 

[Aunt Carol]

The plural of anecdote is not data, but as a weird loner girl, I think nonfiction books helped inoculate me.

We had all the Panati books (thick paperback books with short articles on thematically related history facts, remember this was pre-Internet). Panati's Parade of Fads, Follies, and Manias: The Origins of Our Most Cherished Obsessions was especially interesting as a kid, trying to get up to speed on ALL OF HISTORY. Things go in cycles, and being able to put that together as a kid was like a little bit of secret info.



That might be what helped shape my late grade school "true crime" phase into being focused on cults. I had second-hand paperbacks from the 1970s-80s cult boom, about misc cults and some just the Moonies and the Manson Family, and then deprogrammer Ted Patrick's book (and a book critical of his cult deprogramming techniques).

Again, probably not the best plan for your kid, but something to think about when they bring home that first Scholastic book about Jack the Ripper.

 

[2525ABC]

Jack the Ripper

Hmmm, the brave transwoman who butchered female reproductive organs out of totes understandable dysphoric envy?
Trans icons are everywhere once we learn how to properly interpret gynocidal rage in a queer theoretical context.

...nah you're bang on. The more creeps and loons and cultists our bloodthirsty youths learn about, the better off we'll be.

 

[Aunt Carol]

...nah you're bang on. The more creeps and loons and cultists our bloodthirsty youths learn about, the better off we'll be.

Dumb personal theory, but I think some of the "true crime" phase is while a kid is figuring out social rules, and being drawn to learn about people who break them. Some kids have a "Bigfoot" or "lost city of Atlantis" phase, some Mystery of the Kinda Unexplained.

(Kids also like violence and gore at a safe distance, but that's a given.)

Your kid brings home a book about what happened to Roanoke, get them a book about the Moonies next. You find the kid secretly reading about a serial killer, get them a book about Jonestown, because it hits the same forbidden thrill, but now it's fun and educational. That's the idea, right? There's a page the used paperback falls open to that delicately mentions the sex depredations of the cult leader, but that's like the mimeographed crossword puzzle that uses your vocabulary key words.

And I don't know if there are kid-friendly books, but there are definitely popular short documentaries about the lobotomy fad. Cue up that and something (adult-screened) about Waco and start getting the little gears going about blindly trusting authority.

 

[Vingle]

Hmmm, the brave transwoman who butchered female reproductive organs out of totes understandable dysphoric envy?

The Japanese predicted the future, troons are fucking obsessed with this character. Anime is Black Butler

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

and that they are allowed to question anyone (respectfully, without being rude) - even teachers, even authority figures, even older people.

I will try not to PL too hard or go off topic too hard but this hits really close to home.
I went to a inner city public school in the US when the destruction of critical thinking started becoming evident with "zero tolerance". Thankfully my parents always had my back, despite them sending me there to "open my eyes". You gotta be really careful about "questioning" teachers now. When I was in school a while back, the teaching (Especially the women) staff generally resorted to the "Get the cops/admin involved" more than they need to. Admins don't give a shit and will actively fuck you over if it's easier. As much as it pains me to say, it may be wise to tell them to talk to you about any different conclusions reached at home instead. You need to be prepared to use legal threats and always have your child's back if they are questioning the logic (not if their being a retard literally jacking off in class or tossing tannerite in the toilet with shit).
To be "fair" to them though, I was pretty tall in school (5'10" by 4th grade) and looked like an adult so the teachers always took me as a threat. I've been slammed into the ground/wall more times by male teachers than I can count for doing nothing.
Examples off the top of my head.

• Biology teacher got me suspended for questioning why all races are equal when Darwinian evolution exists.
• Said that Jews weren't the only victim group during WW2. Got suspended for a month.
• Challenging "gun control". Oh boy that was a fun one being the only one against it in debate form.

I have more interesting stories but this isn't the place for them lol.

Also, keep her safe from sexual predators, pornography, and the dicks who will tell her that her only value as a woman is looking attractive and that she's inherently less valuable or competent, due to her sex.

You better fucking keep her off the internet then. Social media (This site semi-included) seems to bring out the most risky behaviors in women and (Slightly less so?) men.
I think another key thing is you gotta let them understand they'll never be that .01% of the bell curve, someone somewhere will always be better. Very few people are truly special.

The boys tend to be punished severely for being emotionally sensitive ("boys don't cry", and so forth),

I heavily disagree with the emotionally sensitive part. My father used to beat* the absolute shit out of me for showing emotion, and when I didn't as a teen, he said I wasn't being emotional enough so I'd die alone, never get a woman and would be a failure in life (and then beat me again). He also made it clear the genders (and the respective expectations) are not equal.
I don't remember showing emotion often since I was 6? Still ended up mostly functional in society and not a troon.
I'm just some retard who likes gay wrestling videos so you should probably take me with a grain of salt though.

*By beating I mean he used to wrestle me as a punishment. He was always a "might makes right" type. If I won I could get away whatever he said I did wrong. Never won except twice (Involves a handgun/baseball bat) since he was a semi-pro in his prime.

 

[Apis mellifera]

I heavily disagree with the emotionally sensitive part. My father used to beat* the absolute shit out of me for showing emotion, and when I didn't as a teen, he said I wasn't being emotional enough so I'd die alone, never get a woman and would be a failure in life (and then beat me again). He also made it clear the genders (and the respective expectations) are not equal.
I don't remember showing emotion often since I was 6? Still ended up mostly functional in society and not a troon.
I'm just some retard who likes gay wrestling videos so you should probably take me with a grain of salt though.

Glad you turned out alright. I wasn't saying that every boy who experiences what I mentioned grows up trans, but the ones who do, tend to have that in common. Like smoking and lung or throat cancer, it's just a risk factor, not a guarantee. I suspect it's something to do with them noticing the unequal treatment of emotional vulnerability between the sexes from a young age, and wanting to transition out of it. The parent in this thread was asking about risk factors for GD, and I was giving them the experience that I've gained over these years.

 

[AverageQuarianEnjoyer]

I've been playing around with the idea of writing this for a while now and figured I'd just do it while the site's up. For context I am an adult male still living at home, one of several siblings, the youngest of which is a girl.

This started back when my sister was in middle school and started getting involved in some small-scale queer activism. It gradually evolved into her identifying as "gender fluid" and going by a more masculine nickname, by the end of high school she was "gender neutral" and going by a completely made up name. She is now on T and when she comes home from college she always sounds like she has a cold and she smells different. I can't believe I even noticed that.

If you're wondering how my parents feel about this, our mom is the type to start foaming at the mouth if someone wants public restrooms to stay gendered and our dad was literally brought to tears by a "protect trans kids" PSA that fucking Oreo put out a couple of years back. They have supported my sister in every conceivable way throughout the years.

A couple of months back my mom somehow found out that I visit the Farms. Admittedly, when she confronted me about it I was not very receptive to her concerns (it's hard not for me to roll my eyes when I'm being lectured from a place of ignorance). She got angry and threatened to kick me out. The thing that hurt the most was that she specifically said that I would be "homeless and living out of my car" meaning that she had thought through the implications of her threat and made it anyway.

The next morning, after she calmed down, we had an "adult conversation" which consisted of ber once again lecturing me on the dangers of those hateful, cult-like, right wing extremists and I said whatever was necessary to keep the peace. Now things are "okay" on the outside.

Right now, I'm looking for a better job so that I can afford to move out. I feel like I can't trust anyone anymore. Only one person in my life has actually trooned out but I have lost my entire family to trans ideology.

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

I've been playing around with the idea of writing this for a while now and figured I'd just do it while the site's up. For context I am an adult male still living at home, one of several siblings, the youngest of which is a girl.

This started back when my sister was in middle school and started getting involved in some small-scale queer activism. It gradually evolved into her identifying as "gender fluid" and going by a more masculine nickname, by the end of high school she was "gender neutral" and going by a completely made up name. She is now on T and when she comes home from college she always sounds like she has a cold and she smells different. I can't believe I even noticed that.

If you're wondering how my parents feel about this, our mom is the type to start foaming at the mouth if someone wants public restrooms to stay gendered and our dad was literally brought to tears by a "protect trans kids" PSA that fucking Oreo put out a couple of years back. They have supported my sister in every conceivable way throughout the years.

A couple of months back my mom somehow found out that I visit the Farms. Admittedly, when she confronted me about it I was not very receptive to her concerns (it's hard not for me to roll my eyes when I'm being lectured from a place of ignorance). She got angry and threatened to kick me out. The thing that hurt the most was that she specifically said that I would be "homeless and living out of my car" meaning that she had thought through the implications of her threat and made it anyway.

The next morning, after she calmed down, we had an "adult conversation" which consisted of ber once again lecturing me on the dangers of those hateful, cult-like, right wing extremists and I said whatever was necessary to keep the peace. Now things are "okay" on the outside.

Right now, I'm looking for a better job so that I can afford to move out. I feel like I can't trust anyone anymore. Only one person in my life has actually trooned out but I have lost my entire family to trans ideology.

As someone whose mother also thought I was going down on right wing extremism, there is a good chance that this gets better. First reaction is usually the worst and brought on by panic and worry. If you can get trough this and show her that you aren't anything that shoking, she can change her mind about this. Probably won't see it as exactly good but it can be not evil easy and to most people that's enough. So don't do anything that drastic unless you really need to.

Now finding a better job and moving out are great ideas regardless, don't fear to follow those. Just don't push her out your life yet. Give her time to grief and sort out her thinking. She learned something about you she didn't expect and thinks is evil. Getting past that takes time and proof that you are fine. So just work on improving your life and don't talk about this unless she brings it up. If she does bring it up you should be honest about your thinking because she already kinda knows so lying will not improve the relationship. Learn how to disengage from a conversation that starts to go south. Change topics, get really quet until she runs out of things to say, end it with polite excuse or even straight forward "I can see we getting too winded up, we need to change topics or we will fight and I can't handle that right now". This will uncomfortable but doesn't have end badly.

 

[Android raptor]

I feel like even with clothes, there’s shit that’s ok and shit that’s not. A little boy trying to walk around in mommy’s heels or getting his nails painted by an overenthusiastic younger sister is cute. That same boy being allowed to wear a dress is being groomed, no question about it.

Spoiler: Mild powerlevel

Not to mention, if you’re anything like our family, the former two are funny stories to reminisce on when you’re older

So what does it mean when little girls wear dresses? Is that grooming? Are dresses inherently sexual or something?

Tbh freaking out over a kid having a style or interests that don't conform to gender stereotypes is just gonna make them more likely to troon out.

 

[Vingle]

Just don't push her out your life yet. Give her time to grief and sort out her thinking. She learned something about you she didn't expect and thinks is evil. Getting past that takes time and proof that you are fine. So just work on improving your life and don't talk about this unless she brings it up. If she does bring it up you should be honest about your thinking because she already kinda knows so lying will not improve the relationship. Learn how to disengage from a conversation that starts to go south. Change topics, get really quet until she runs out of things to say, end it with polite excuse or even straight forward "I can see we getting too winded up, we need to change topics or we will fight and I can't handle that right now". This will uncomfortable but doesn't have end badly.

Eh, the parents are retarded and mutilating their underage daughter is pretty fucking unforgivable. He's lucky he ended up as normal as he is. He don't need to completely ghost them, but do the bare minimum of communication with them. As that may give him some benefits.

 

[Chromeo]

If you're wondering how my parents feel about this, our mom is the type to start foaming at the mouth if someone wants public restrooms to stay gendered and our dad was literally brought to tears by a "protect trans kids" PSA that fucking Oreo put out a couple of years back. They have supported my sister in every conceivable way throughout the years.

A couple of months back my mom somehow found out that I visit the Farms. Admittedly, when she confronted me about it I was not very receptive to her concerns (it's hard not for me to roll my eyes when I'm being lectured from a place of ignorance). She got angry and threatened to kick me out. The thing that hurt the most was that she specifically said that I would be "homeless and living out of my car" meaning that she had thought through the implications of her threat and made it anyway.

"Oh my god, our daughter fell in with a politically charged crowd, we need to do everything in our power to make sure she's safe and loved!"
"Oh my god, our son fell in with a politically charged crowd! lmao we should make him live in his car."
A+ parenting guyssss

I remember telling my parents about the farms. I'm grateful they first heard about it through me. They know KF as a place where people can talk freely (unlike Facebook, which they've experienced) and that some of the big names that want the site shut down are groomers, pedophiles, and animal rapists. If bad people hate the site because we keep track of what they do wrong, and good people they know (me) use the site, then KiwiFarms can't be 100% evil and bad.

If your parents bring the issue up again, I'd suggest leaning into that. Tell them honestly how the site functions, that it's just a forum, and the biggest thing we do here is point and laugh at assholes who are genuinely bad people. Move the conversation from the troons, which your parents see favorably, and tell them how KF sticks it to people who hurt animals and children. If your parents see THEOSE groups favorably it's a lost cause anyway. Let them know they raised you, they know you, and that they should trust that a website you use wouldn't be a horrible place because they should know who you are better than that. They trust your sister to do what she wants with her life and be safe about it, they should extend that same trust to you.

I hope things get better for you, Quarian. Fingers crossed you don't have to live in the car anyway.

 

[2525ABC]

She got angry and threatened to kick me out. The thing that hurt the most was that she specifically said that I would be "homeless and living out of my car"

Somewhat ironically, you're going to have to do exactly what gay kids did in the 90s.

When your parents don't accept you for who you are (usually due to propaganda and groupthink) but you depend on them financially, you closet yourself as hard as you can for as long as it takes to better your situation and get independent.

They might try conversion therapy, but you DO NOT fight it. Roll over, lie your ass off, chant TWAW out loud while thinking YWNBAW in your heart. Become the bestest most accepting troon loving son they could hope for and they may even fund the tuition or security deposit or whatever you want from them.

You're in a fight for your survival so you have to lie and cheat and manipulate until you get to safety.

There's the extra wrinkle of what is happening to your sister, but once you've saved yourself and established some ally cred you can be the lifeboat for her if she ever comes to her senses.

Spoiler: And when it is time

you remember that they were willing to put you on the street for visiting the no-no forum and choose their nursing home accordingly