Warhammer 40k

So I've been trying out various contrast paints that are out there as I have little else to do when not working and I have to say it makes painting a lot easier if you're someone like me who has issues with nerve damage. Not having to spend so much time trying to get things "table ready" has been a god send as I'm not taking up to an hour trying to paint a small troop choice because I have to be extra careful with painting because of how much my hands shake even with propping them up on some hard foam (recommend doing this and shaping it for your own comfort if you suffer with the same problem). In an hour I can get up to three, sometimes four finished to my liking if they're not heavy on the detail. I can now attempt other painting techniques without fear of ruining the model.
 
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How would things gone in the Heresy had the Traitor side had been Renegade (as in anti-imperium but not on Chaos side)? I mean in a farfetched timeline where Chaos isn't a thing but 9 of the Primarchs still went rebel?
 
Zaryiu2 said:
How would things gone in the Heresy had the Traitor side had been Renegade (as in anti-imperium but not on Chaos side)? I mean in a farfetched timeline where Chaos isn't a thing but 9 of the Primarchs still went rebel?
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Well for starters I think the whole traitor/loyalists side would get shuffled a bit.
Angron, Curz, and Mortiarian would still definitely betray the imperium.
Perturabo and lorgar are a maybe, the former hinges on if is hatred for Dorn is enough to turn coat and the later depends on if his god obsession was because of Chaos.
I don't think Horus or Fulgrim would go traitor if Chaos isn't involved
Alpharius is still Alpharius.
And Magnus cannot mess with the warp for more the 5 minutes, so unless the council of Nikaea is overturned he still falls to chaos.

As for the Loyalists, I can't remember who but I recall Emps and Malcador being slightly shocked that one of the loyalists stayed loyal, think it was either the Lion or the Kahn but don't quote me.
I think the dornian heresy fan universe has Vulkan, Ferrus, and Guilliman going traitor but joining chaos. Vulkan goes full doomer and just wants to burn everything. Ferrus starts messing with some necron shit and royal pisses of the ad mech. And Guilliman gets fed up with the shit show of the imperium's governmental structure and takes Ultramar and leaves, but all three are a bit far fetched,
 
Zaryiu2 said:
How would things gone in the Heresy had the Traitor side had been Renegade (as in anti-imperium but not on Chaos side)? I mean in a farfetched timeline where Chaos isn't a thing but 9 of the Primarchs still went rebel?
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I think Lion would have been the lynchpin of the Renegade side rather than Horus and the the pivot would have been over his being passed for Warmaster.
 
Zaryiu2 said:
How would things gone in the Heresy had the Traitor side had been Renegade (as in anti-imperium but not on Chaos side)? I mean in a farfetched timeline where Chaos isn't a thing but 9 of the Primarchs still went rebel?
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Honestly it it was the same primarchs on each side I think the traitors might have won. Although chaos at times helped (from what I remember the only reason Horus survived his fight with Russ was chaos empowerment) I think it was ultimately more of a hindrance than a help.

Let's go through the traitor legions during the siege of Terra:

The World Eaters are no longer a coherent fighting force and even when demonic Angron is actually in realspace he's no use as a general and Kharn, the guy who kept the legion together when Angron lost his shit, is now just as much of a liability at this point.

Fulgrim doesn't seem to be much better off than Angron, he's more lucid but he's not interested in winning for Horus and he's not really in control of his legion anymore as they've largely dispersed to do their own sick Slaaneshi shit. On top of that, even being demonically empowered he manages to lose a duel to fucking Dorn after which he gets bored and literally just leaves (nice one bro).

The Death Guard are intact and Morty has his shit together to his credit but Typhon is a scheming shit & a liability more loyal to Nurgle than Morty. It's debatable how much the gifts of Nurgle have benefitted the Death Guard as a whole but the sorcery Morty is using during the siege are definitely a big benefit. From what I can tell this is the only legion to have possibly benefitted from Chaos during this battle.

Perturabo, who was overseeing the siege and the best chance the traitors had at cracking the defenses open, is so sick of the Chaos shit and how unreliable it's made his brothers that he fucked off with the majority of his legion. Aside from the Death Guard & to a lesser extent the Sons of Horus this is the most intact legion the traitors have and now they're gone.

Lorgar has been made to fuck off by Horus for trying to usurp him to become the champion of the Chaos gods although part of his legion is still at Terra.

Magnus is fucking Big E about in the webway and keeping him from joining the fight so that's a benefit but his legion has also been completely smashed and the flesh change is affecting his remaining legionaries at a higher rate than ever by the end of the latest book.

I think Curze would have been fucked either way. His legion didn't need Chaos to fracture. The Night Lords aren't built for sieges and they got fucked by the blood angels at one point in the siege because a demon decided it didn't want to empower their commander and he then was defeated by a Blood Angel.

Without the Alpha Legion the siege of Terra might never have been possible. Who knows how much Chaos has been a factor in their decisions, with the whole storyline about the Cabal & at least one of their primarchs still being (possibly?) loyal and one of them being (possibly?) dead by Dorn it's gotten fucking ridiculous at this point.

Last but not least the Sons of Horus seem relatively intact but Horus is absent and Abaddon got so fucked he's also not available as a leader so they're largely leaderless.

The traitor fleet in space is also falling apart by the latest book. The ships are literally killing the crew and things seems generally horrible.

The traitor titans appear to be teamkilling one another at an alarming rate, I blame chaos.

Long story short it's impossible to say but imo without Chaos the traitors might have remained unified for at least long enough to salvage a victory.
 
Zaryiu2 said:
How would things gone in the Heresy had the Traitor side had been Renegade (as in anti-imperium but not on Chaos side)? I mean in a farfetched timeline where Chaos isn't a thing but 9 of the Primarchs still went rebel?
Click to expand...
I had an idea of alternate heresy where the Eldar manage to kill off Slannesh, Ferrus Manus gets manipulated by the C'tan and manages to Borg half the legions using some techno lodge equivalent, and is the Horus figurehead (or alternatively Guilliman). The thing ends with the Imperium massively being frightened by technology (even moreso than currently), and using the warp for everything it can, due to Lorgar and Magnus leading it before disappearing (justified by killing Slannesh calms the warp considerably).

It's a bit more complicated than the usual "everyone who is bad is now good", though just switching warp to technology.
 
I recently reread Primarchs and Angel Exterminatus. I have a question I was hoping someone here could help with.

What the fuck is up with Fulgrim? Is he possessed? Is he in a painting? Is it all "just a prank bro"? It's confusing to me.
 
Zaryiu2 said:
So is Daddy Issues aka ADB version of the Emperor the Canon Version or not?
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No, but good luck getting that shit away from ADB and the BL to fix it. See also: "The emperor stole a black arabic lesbian muslim's science to make his primarchs!" and other similar fucking dumbshit takes they're trying to slowly edge into the lore to frog boil the setting into wokeism.
 
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Zaryiu2 said:
So is Daddy Issues aka ADB version of the Emperor the Canon Version or not?
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There is the often quoted "Everything is canon, but canon doesn't mean it's the exact truth."
Sadly a lot of people find this to be a genius concept or fundamental to the warhammer lore experience but they're wrong because practically this has no narrative of story telling value. By that I mean it's a concept that does not impact any of the stories or the way in which those stories are told.
The context of this quote is simple, when one of the authors was confronted about why his novel broke canon he quickly though up this retort... basically what this quote actually means is that he didn't much care about the details or making sure that his work fit into the existing body of work (the supposed canon). The idea took root and it became a shield used by 40k fans whenever someone points out inconsistencies, as a simple thought terminating cliché. Sadly it makes it hard to care too much about the lore and canon when the people working on it don't particularly care much either... but that's a me thing though since plenty of other people seem to still love the lore.

But the popularity of this idea among the fans and among some of the writers themselves (obviously) really tells us that nothing is canon. I believe ADB said it best: ""There is no canon. There are several hundred creators all adding to the melting pot of the IP."
Everything can change at any moment if some new author decides he can get away with it.

This is sadly the downside of properties like this where there is no central author or controlling body and the only real driving force is money. Comics has this in the most extreme form where you can literally see entire backstories just scrapped and rewritten not just reinterpreted or subtly changed as we more often see in 40k.

But if you want to some semblance of canon then the answer would be yes this is now canon until someone else decides to change it in which case it will not be canon.
 
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Commander X said:
One thing I like about Darktide, without having played it yet, is what I've heard of the soundtrack. Came across someone's random link to the "Assassination" track


The combination of chanting/church organs mixed with EMB music sounds like a winner.
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Just disappointed there's no powerfists.
I'm honestly surprised by the lack of fistings in 40k games tbh.

I also wish psyker melee involved biomancy iron arms for the same reason.
 
Cpl. Long Dong Silver said:
I recently reread Primarchs and Angel Exterminatus. I have a question I was hoping someone here could help with.

What the fuck is up with Fulgrim? Is he possessed? Is he in a painting? Is it all "just a prank bro"? It's confusing to me.
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The Laer Blade initially possessed him but then he regained control of his body in the short story Reflection Crack’d.

Fulgrim has fully gone down the path of damnation.
Zaryiu2 said:
So is Daddy Issues aka ADB version of the Emperor the Canon Version or not?
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There is no canon to how the Emperor acts, but I will say that I do like this depiction because it demonstrates that the Emperor is fallible. He is the most powerful human being but he is not omnipotent. He is convinced by his superiority that He knows what is best for humanity.

Any fuck up can’t be His fault. He doesn’t need to change, the galaxy must bend to His will.

The current state of the Imperium is therefore not a master plan of a God-Emperor or a final option to stave off the encroaching darkness. It is the result of a tyrant shaping humanity how is believes it should be and failing modify his vision for the future. 10,000 years of unending war brought about by the foibles of one man, trapped in a near deathless state as the civilization he built became the antithesis of everything he worked for.

Fucking grimdark, ain’t it?
 
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Imperial Citizen said:
The Laer Blade initially possessed him but then he regained control of his body in the short story Reflection Crack’d.

Fulgrim has fully gone down the path of damnation.

There is no canon to how the Emperor acts, but I will say that I do like this depiction because it demonstrates that the Emperor is fallible. He is the most powerful human being but he is not omnipotent. He is convinced by his superiority that He knows what is best for humanity.

Any fuck up can’t be His fault. He doesn’t need to change, the galaxy must bend to His will.

The current state of the Imperium is therefore not a master plan of a God-Emperor or a final option to stave off the encroaching darkness. It is the result of a tyrant shaping humanity how is believes it should be and failing modify his vision for the future. 10,000 years of unending war brought about by the foibles of one man, trapped in a near deathless state as the civilization he built became the antithesis of everything he worked for.

Fucking grimdark, ain’t it?
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So I guess I'm just retarded but I didn't understand this from Reflection Crack'd . So Fulgrim  was possessed and trapped in the painting by the Laer blade demon but forcibly swapped places  but continued to act weird and unlike himself to the point the Brotherhood of the Phoenix capture and torture him only to them reveal this to his astartes?

Sounds like "I was just pretending to be retarded" with extra steps and warp fuckery. Thank you for explaining
 
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