Global Depression 2022 - Time to do the Breadline Boogaloo!

[wtfNeedSignUp]

As India approaches the position of being the worlds most populated country,
does anyone have an educated opinion on if they are likely to enter a catastrophic famine because of the global fertilizer shortage?

I know India got where it is because it has some of the biggest rivers and fertile lands in it's territory, but can the current numbers hold if some of the modern synthetic fertilizers get rugpulled out of their system?

Pretty sure the more desolate parts of it are already on constant cases of famine.

 

[FatalTater]

Doesn't India have cows? Cow poop is some of the best fertilizer there is.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Doesn't India have cows? Cow poop is some of the best fertilizer there is.

I'm not sure if there's anything cultrually against it, but I know bovine to human zoonosis of many diseases are an issue. Q-fever, Chlamydophila abortus, C. psittaci are ones of the top of my head alongside MRSA and probably vertebrate parasites. You can sterlize it by heat but I'm betting most of rural India does not have that ability.

Edit: Forgot anthrax.

 

[moocow]

I'm not sure if there's anything cultrually against it, but I know bovine to human zoonosis of many diseases are an issue. Q-fever, Chlamydophila abortus, C. psittaci are ones of the top of my head alongside MRSA and probably vertebrate parasites. You can sterlize it by heat but I'm betting most of rural India does not have that ability.

Edit: Forgot anthrax.

These are the same people infamous for literally pissing and shitting in their primary water sources. They quite literally swim in it, drink it, cook with it, wash their clothes and dishes with it, everything. It is a country whose government has had to aggressively shoehorn "use a fucking toilet, you inbred filth" education into their culture because so many of them still shit in the street and refuse to use modern plumbing for their waste even when it's made available to them for free.

I refuse to believe for an instant that these petri dish-dwelling creatures are in any way vulnerable to whatever weak-ass biohazard level 4 shit lives the easy life in the cow patties.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

I refuse to believe for an instant that these petri dish-dwelling creatures are in any way vulnerable to whatever weak-ass biohazard level 4 shit lives the easy life in the cow patties.

One day the great modern plague will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Indian subcontinent.

 

[The Ghost of Kviv]

does anyone have an educated opinion on if they are likely to enter a catastrophic famine because of the global fertilizer shortage?

Doesn't India have cows? Cow poop is some of the best fertilizer there is.

Animal manure has been used as a fertilizer across Central and South Asia for at least hundreds of years.

And India didn't throw any tariffs on fertilizer from Russia, or even China. Additionally they capped food exports beginning this year, along with the beginning of dams along their larger rivers.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Pretty sure the more desolate parts of it are already on constant cases of famine.

It's even worse. Most of the country is dependent on monsoon rains for their crops or irrigation systems, and a few failures of that means famine. Even better are the places like Cherrapunji, the rainiest place on the planet, which some years has "droughts" where it "only" gets half the rain it normally does. So that fucks up the rivers meaning they get more polluted and can irrigate less land. So yeah, India is just as fucked as China is in regards to drought and famine.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Speaking of India, this is apparently normal now in bongland stores:

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Only Chick-Fil-A fried chicken though, every other fast food fried chicken is garbage. OK, maybe Zaxby's is a close second.

Raising Cane's > Chick-Fil-A

Edit; Look kiwifarms, I like Chick-Fil-A but Raising Cane's has better sauce and chicken fingers with toast is better than a chicken sandwich. Chick-Fil-A has alright shakes I'll give them that.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

It's even worse. Most of the country is dependent on monsoon rains for their crops or irrigation systems, and a few failures of that means famine. Even better are the places like Cherrapunji, the rainiest place on the planet, which some years has "droughts" where it "only" gets half the rain it normally does. So that fucks up the rivers meaning they get more polluted and can irrigate less land. So yeah, India is just as fucked as China is in regards to drought and famine.

I mean, the US isn't much better with hurricanes up the ass in gulf every year, water issues in CA, AZ, and aquifer depletion in the many states. Yes, you can plant plants that could theoretically be drought resistant in a pinch, but there's not much research that has been done on it.

Here's something posted by the American Society for Horological Science using solute concentration to try and calculate resistance to drought in urban landscapes Carya (Hickory) species, I was quite surprised at some of the data. Note the section about riparian habitats.

Carya Species for Use in the Managed Landscape: Predicted Drought Tolerance

Impressive ornamental features including exfoliating bark and golden fall color are among the reasons why hickories [Carya (Nutt.)] are sought after by horticulturists. Their potential for application in the green industry continues to grow as producers and consumers in the United States become...

doi.org

Some riparian habitats are subject to routine fluctuations between inundation and drought and taxa adapted to these sites must exhibit a degree of resilience to extremes of soil-moisture gradients (Devall and Parresol, 1998; Konings and Gentine, 2017). Indeed, a high degree of resiliency and plasticity to both drought and waterlogging is not the case for most bottomland-dwelling angiosperm species (Niinemets and Valladares, 2006a, 2006b). However, some examples of documented outliers include Alnus maritima (Marshall) Muhl. ex Nutt. (Schrader et al., 2005), Pinkneya bracteata (W. Bartram) Raf. (formerly Pinkneya pubens) (Stewart et al., 2007), Taxodium distichum (L.) Rich., and Magnolia virginiana L. (Nash and Graves, 1993). In their evaluation of drought tolerance of seven Magnolia L. species, Sjöman et al. (2018b) corroborated the ability of M. virginiana to tolerate drought better than its congeners. In the wild, M. virginiana is found almost exclusively in bottomland habitats (Preston, 1989) and the related taxa involved in their study are usually found inhabiting mesic sites, yet multiple reports have corroborated the ability of M. virginiana to surpass its congeners in drought tolerance.

Species that belong to the genus Carya exhibit strong taproots that persist beyond their juvenile development stages (Thompson and Grauke, 1991). Although in this study we have reported drought tolerance predictions, other studies recommend the potential for some Carya species to use drought avoidance strategies. Sparks (2002) suggests that C. illinoinensis, with its strong taproot, is phreatophytic, and will grow to the water table and that this taxon cannot be grown on dry sites (Sparks, 2005). Although all hickories are noted for the development of a taproot, it is unclear if all Carya species are accurately classified as phreatophytes. In their study of a population of oaks and hickory in central Missouri, Parker et al. (1982) provide evidence that C. tomentosa, a species common on mesic sites, may use drought avoidance strategies. Our study is focused on predicting drought tolerance in a few select species. We recognize that some species in this genus, such as C. tomentosa, may be better classified as drought avoiders. However, given the evidence we have provided for C. illinoinensis, we question if some species may be better classified as opportunistic, rooting into deep soil horizons when capable or enduring drought via seasonal osmotic adjustment when necessary. We also question whether generalizations of C. illinoinensis were made through the lens of prolific nut production rather than simple growth and survival.

Magnolias generally aren't used for food in the USA (Several are malodorous). They also generally don't have much other than ornamental use. They do have a few interesting compounds however, but you also gotta deal with cockroaches everywhere around that shit.

Raising Cane's > Chick-Fil-A

Edit; Look kiwifarms, I like Chick-Fil-A but Raising Cane's has better sauce and chicken fingers with toast is better than a chicken sandwich. Chick-Fil-A has alright shakes I'll give them that.

Yeah but Chick-fil-a is for the hwite opressors man. Real niggas go eat and get stabbed/shot at popeyes.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Speaking of India, this is apparently normal now in bongland stores:
View attachment 3928029

No it's not. It's one shop, in cornwall. Cornwall is weird.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

No it's not. It's one shop, in cornwall. Cornwall is weird.

Is it really just one shop?

Discount grocer Aldi is securing $4.80 blocks of cheese in plastic security cages to deter shoplifting amid cost-of-living crisis

Insider saw items including chocolate, butter, and toothpaste adorned with security tags at stores it visited across a number of retailers Wednesday.

www.businessinsider.com

Raising the steaks for thieves! £4 cuts of beef fitted with security tags at Chorlton supermarket

Morrisons makes it harder for shoplifters to get away with meaty loot in Manchester suburb named as the UK's burglary hotspot

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Edit as not to double-post:
Egg limits, seriously? Also loving the Ukraine flag in their header, really helps by adding some context to the article.

Tesco is latest supermarket to bring in egg limits for customers

It follows the same decision from Asda and Lidl earlier this month

www.kentlive.news

 

[mindlessobserver]

I think what annoys me about the neo malthusian argument that we need less people on the planet is the fact that less people means less productivity and less chance to generate high ability individuals.

The most offensive thing to me though is the argument there is limited fresh water. Which is not true. Fresh water is massively abundant. Just not on earth. Luna literally has mountains of the shit, and there are asteroids and comets made up entirely of it. Hell, Jupiter and Saturn have entire MOONS made up of H20.

The fix to our "population crisis" is not less people. Its more people, propelling us into more Space. Literally Space.

 

[Sneed's Feed And Seed]

I think what annoys me about the neo malthusian argument that we need less people on the planet is the fact that less people means less productivity and less chance to generate high ability individuals.

The most offensive thing to me though is the argument there is limited fresh water. Which is not true. Fresh water is massively abundant. Just not on earth. Luna literally has mountains of the shit, and there are asteroids and comets made up entirely of it. Hell, Jupiter and Saturn have entire MOONS made up of H20.

The fix to our "population crisis" is not less people. Its more people, propelling us into more Space. Literally Space.

...but unironically.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I think what annoys me about the neo malthusian argument that we need less people on the planet is the fact that less people means less productivity and less chance to generate high ability individuals.

Population has no correlation with productivity. Just look at China. Or Africa. Same thing with "high ability individuals" since Africa isn't giving us many "high ability individuals" (unless you believe their millions of gimmegrants actually contribute something). Most of the greatest people were alive when the world had half the population or less.

The most offensive thing to me though is the argument there is limited fresh water. Which is not true. Fresh water is massively abundant. Just not on earth. Luna literally has mountains of the shit, and there are asteroids and comets made up entirely of it. Hell, Jupiter and Saturn have entire MOONS made up of H20.

The fix to our "population crisis" is not less people. Its more people, propelling us into more Space. Literally Space.

None of which exists right now (at least mass desalination+nuclear power exists), and colonizing space is stupid anyway because you just exponentially increase the risk of someone inventing super AI that decides to kill everyone.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Population has no correlation with productivity. Just look at China. Or Africa. Same thing with "high ability individuals" since Africa isn't giving us many "high ability individuals" (unless you believe their millions of gimmegrants actually contribute something). Most of the greatest people were alive when the world had half the population or less.

What? Where did you get that idea in your brain? Lets LOOK at China. How exactly do you think their population got so big? Positive feedback loops. When the Empire finished the grand canal linking the North to the South, it made access to the rice fields viable for the entire country. More rice = more babies. More babies = more workers to make more rice. So on and So on. Considering the formula for productivity is literally Labor + Capital= its at the most BASIC level understood that increasing labor increases output.

None of which exists right now (at least mass desalination+nuclear power exists), and colonizing space is stupid anyway because you just exponentially increase the risk of someone inventing super AI that decides to kill everyone.

Why is colonizing space stupid? The term you are looking for is economically unfeasible. Not stupid. We could do it right now, but we don't want to spend the money. Space Colonization is a huge problem because the start up costs are enormous and any return would likely not be realized for a century, if not longer. Its the type of foreword thinking only a government can do, and our governments are too focused spending money on useless bullshit and getting elected ever 2 years. greater population pressure however could change the equation, even for myopic liberal democracies. Especially once they realize how little Lithium there is on earth and how much there is in Space.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

At least they're just eating pet food, not pets. (for now)

Cost of living: People in Cardiff 'eating pet food'

The cost of living crisis also means people try to heat meals on their radiators, Mark Seed says.

www.bbc.com

Cost of living: People in Cardiff 'eating pet food' - BBC News

archived 1 Dec 2022 15:45:04 UTC

archive.ph

 

[lurking for the deets]

Is antique money still worth anything anymore? I'm speaking about really old coins or bills in USD that are not made out of any kind of precious metals. Their value is how old they are. Apologies if it's already been talked about, I haven't quite made it through the thread. All this is just making me worry a lot.

My dad got me into collecting old money as a kid and I stopped collecting after high school. The bulk of what I got are old buffalo nickels and the rest aren't any newer than the 1970's, but some are older than the nickels. I haven't really thought about them much since then, until this thread made me go full doomer.

I'm just curious if anybody knows about the current market and can speculate on it. I used to think they were worth something but if USD keeps going to shit I wonder if they can even keep their value. Who wants to collect an older version of the failing United States dollar during these times?

I don't want to sell mine unless I have to because they're sentimental. But if things go tits-up I'm worried that they may be worthless. I haven't really kept up with the market at all so I'm pretty clueless on this. Boy do I wish they were all made from gold or silver, though lol

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

What? Where did you get that idea in your brain? Lets LOOK at China. How exactly do you think their population got so big? Positive feedback loops. When the Empire finished the grand canal linking the North to the South, it made access to the rice fields viable for the entire country. More rice = more babies. More babies = more workers to make more rice. So on and So on. Considering the formula for productivity is literally Labor + Capital= its at the most BASIC level understood that increasing labor increases output.

Yes, millions of peasants doing the work that a couple thousand people with machines can do nowadays. It was so effective that China stifled their own economy because there was no market for labor saving machines when you could just pay a poor-ass villager to do it for you. It's also totally wrong since China's population was always a huge fraction of the world's population (i.e. Han Dynasty had more people than the Roman Empire) because rice is high-yielding crop and the Chinese habitually boiled water.

If population actually mattered, then a lower population nation like Britain wouldn't have taken over the world, but go figure, they invent more productive agriculture and have an industrial revolution and suddenly no one can match them. Hell, Sweden went toe to toe with Europe's strongest nations for a century because they had more productive people and robust systems.

Why is colonizing space stupid? The term you are looking for is economically unfeasible. Not stupid. We could do it right now, but we don't want to spend the money. Space Colonization is a huge problem because the start up costs are enormous and any return would likely not be realized for a century, if not longer. Its the type of foreword thinking only a government can do, and our governments are too focused spending money on useless bullshit and getting elected ever 2 years. greater population pressure however could change the equation, even for myopic liberal democracies. Especially once they realize how little Lithium there is on earth and how much there is in Space.

No, it's very stupid because it's dangerous for humanity. All the covert biolabs are bad enough on Earth, now imagine there's 50 million of them in space with even less oversight and oh yeah some of them are also researching fun things like "grey goo" and how to make a self-replicating hive mind. "Population pressures" are a fucking joke, eleventygorillion niggers will never be anything more than footsoldiers to the global elite and will either live in the pod here or live in the pod in space (since space colonies make zero economic sense if everything isn't living in a pod). Lithium? Oh wait, you can just filter that from brine, like you know, the brine that's the waste product from desalination plants.

I'm just curious if anybody knows about the current market and can speculate on it. I used to think they were worth something but if USD keeps going to shit I wonder if they can even keep their value. Who wants to collect an older version of the failing United States dollar during these times?

Depends on the condition of the money. The bills I think are mostly valueless unless they're very old or are some rare denomination like a 500 dollar bill. Buffalo nickels and other old coins are worth several times their face value so...something but not much.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Is antique money still worth anything anymore? I'm speaking about really old coins or bills in USD that are not made out of any kind of precious metals. Their value is how old they are. Apologies if it's already been talked about, I haven't quite made it through the thread. All this is just making me worry a lot.

My dad got me into collecting old money as a kid and I stopped collecting after high school. The bulk of what I got are old buffalo nickels and the rest aren't any newer than the 1970's, but some are older than the nickels. I haven't really thought about them much since then, until this thread made me go full doomer.

Anything after 1926 the average is a dollar or two, more for uncirculated as always but low. Anything before is worth considerably more but that's just in the collector market, in melt value they're basically worthless which is what most people are going to be going for in a really harmful situation. Look for pre-1964 quarters and dimes if you just want something where the melt value passes the face value by several times. Silver sets in general are good for that. Had a whole set of silver eagles I sold for a bit a few years ago. Ever get change just look for pre '64 dates. You won't find as many circulating around anymore though a lot of people started paying attention in the past few years.