- Joined
- Aug 5, 2019
The reply that started it all:
What's there to defend, that's literally just normal.
Refuting the Pathologization of Hebephilia
Establishing the autonomy and accountability of those who have surpassed spermenarche
In the name of God;0. Definitions
- Spermarche - A term that refers to the beginning of semen production in a male. For the sake of brevity, we make no distinction between thorarche and spermarche.
- Spermenarche - A term that simultaneously refers to spermarche and menarche.
- Hebephilia - Attraction to those who have surpassed spermenarche. In this, we also encompass ephebophilia unless otherwise specified, for the sake of brevity.
- Adulthood - The period of life after the occurrence of spermenarche.
- Common Adulthood - The adulthood upon which our companions and our interlocutors agree on the existence of (i.e: 18 years of age and after).
- Adolescence theorists - Those who subscribe to the notion that adolescence is distinct from adulthood in autonomy.
- Young - Below common adulthood.
- Younger - Below the age of another party that is being referenced.
- YMOW - Young man, older woman.
- YWOM - Young woman, older man.
1. The Criticality of Our Intercourse
<0>1.0. In middle school, I began to question the wisdom of society's attitude towards people my age. Over the next few years, the seeds of my thoughts on this topic began to develop, and thanks to 8chan, I was also able to discuss these topics with the anons who had preceded me in this thinking. Although at the time my concern was primarily with my own treatment, I had the privilege of being much freer to discuss the subject with my peers since I could not be slandered with the label of 'pedophile'. As I grew older however, this became a much harder topic to discuss since I could no longer defend myself on account of my age. Thus I needed to familiarise myself with the topic more deeply.
1.1. We will only address heterosexual hebephilia, both YMOW and YWOM. <1>
1.2. This is an article written so that I may later reference it as needed, as well as to collect my thoughts on the topic. God-willing, this will make future discussions less tedious and will also allow me to exercise my literacy.
1.3. We will argue against the belief that hebephilia is aberrant or exceptional, compared to teleiophilia or mesophilia. For the sake of clarity, we will also distinguish between those who argue that hebephilia is abnormal and those who argue that actions that follow from it must be curtailed, although there is much overlap between these groups in practice.
Footnotes:
<0> The title of this section is a pun.
<1> I am homophobic.
2. Identifying the Foundations of Adolescence
2.0. Two issues become intertwined when discussing this subject: adolescence and the age of consent. The movement to raise the age of consent was primarily driven by feminist groups, led by the British purity reformers who did so to protect the interests of women who were being deflowered as a result of prostitution, which was unfortunately wholly legal. [0] Adolescence was first coined as a distinct stage of development in contrast to adulthood or childhood in 1904 by G. Stanley Hall, but his findings lacked applicability outside of his immediate social context and were built on the now discredited theory of 'recapitulation'. [1] The supposed distinguishing features of this stage of development are, oddly, nowhere to be found in societies lacking western influence. [2]2.1. The aversion to hebephilia specifically, is also very novel. One paper writes, "In the late Roman Empire the modal age of marriage of pagan girls was 12-15, and of Christian girls 18.8." [3] and similarly, many otherwise praised historical figures had young wives, such as Edgar Allen Poe. In light of this, the suggestion that it is abnormal, simply as an attraction, as many today suggest, is absurd.
2.2. This section suffices as a response to the group who argue that hebephilia is aberrant. The following sections will address those who wish to demonize the actions that follow from this attraction.
3. First Objections - Physicality
3.0. Among the primary objections to our perspective is several mistaken assumptions regarding female anatomy, especially pregnancy. Adolescence theorists cite statistics by bodies such as the WHO indicating that young pregnancy is excessively dangerous compared to common adult pregnancy [4]. This line of reasoning is flawed due to the fact that young pregnancy is more common in countries with worse healthcare owing to the shortened life expectancy, and the aforementioned statistics do not account for this.3.1. Furthermore, we may also ask why this same reasoning is not applied to perimenopausal women since they would be regarded as vulnerable if the aforementioned objection were taken at face value. If the rebuttal is that this does not apply because they are not 'adolescents', then this line of reasoning is unnecessary in the first instance. This objection also fails to account for the fact that sex between young people remains legal, and this also leads to pregnancy; although such pregnancies are taboo, few people would oppose young people having sex with each other entirely based on it.
3.2. Another objection is that women's pelvises are underdeveloped for the potential consequence of childbirth until they reach the age of 18. This is not true, as by the time menarche occurs, the vast majority of pelvic development has been completed to the point where it is more than sufficient for childbirth [5]. Additionally fetuses vary in growth according to the anatomy of the mother to maximize the chances of successful birth [6].
3.2. Finally, we point out that no argument exists in this category for spermarche, and even the least charitable adolescent theorist is obliged to concede this point on account of its obviousness. The argument against YMOW relies exclusively on dubious psychological claims, which we will address in the forthcoming section.
4. Second Objections - Psychology
4.0. The single most repeated objection to hebephilia is the issue of mental development. This rests on the assumption that the development of young people in the modern west is normal and healthy when nothing could be further from the truth. Robert Epstein writes "teen trouble begins to appear in other cultures soon after the introduction of certain Western influences, especially Western-style schooling, television programs and movies". The claim that the brain is not 'truly' developed until the age of 21, 25, etc, is all a product of this [2]. Western-style schooling especially must be mentioned as it isolates young people from the influence of their elders, depriving them of valuable time to observe the behaviors of their elders, emulate them and learn to socialize with them. <0>4.1. We also point out that if the brain is supposedly universally underdeveloped until the age of 21 or 25, it therefore follows that the age of consent should be at that age and not earlier. Although many consider this absurd, others do indeed advocate for this.
4.2. Those who oppose us often claim that it is normal for young people to have relations with each other while at the same time claiming that minors cannot consent. This is contradictory since if minors are incapable of consent in absolute terms, then they must be prevented from all sexual activity. Such people may rush to defend themselves with the refrain 'they are only incapable of consenting to sexual activity with [common] adults', but this exception is unjustified since all things that may occur in sexual activity with common adults may also be present in relationships with other young people. If such people wish to be consistent while opposing our view, they must necessarily call for the celibacy of all those they consider 'not adult' in the same manner that is expected of those who have not yet reached spermenarche.
4.3. The final objection we will address is those relating to trauma, to which we respond that self-reporting is unreliable in identifying the reasons for particular events being traumatic since it is subject to cognitive distortions or societal influence (which may include secondary trauma [7]).
Footnotes:
<0> As you might imagine, this has far broader implications than those I am covering here. Even the concept of 'generations' is fraught with issues in much the same way that 'adolescence' is, but it is not practical for me to cover everything. If you're interested in exploring this, there is content out there covering it.
5. Third Objections - The Common Adult
5.0. While modern people express moral outrage at the suggestion that hebephilia is normal they will nonetheless express attraction towards women who use makeup to resemble younger women. Women themselves seek to resemble younger women. At the same time, men are shamed for the mere 'crime' of being physically attracted to a woman who is physically indistinguishable from them, regardless of whether they act on this attraction, as if the number of times a person has orbited the sun is analogous to eye color.5.1. Oddly enough, it is only recently that demonization of women's hebephilia in particular, has become common <0>. What was previously met with fantasy by men is instead used in an almost vindictive manner in the name of 'consistency'.
5.2. We also point out that hebephilia is common to men, with 13.7% of men experiencing such attractions (excluding the proportion who are ephebophilic but not hebephilic) [8].
Footnotes:
<0>. We distinguish the demonization of YMOW from the general taboo against women seeking younger men.
6. Concluding Remarks
6.0. There is no need to address personal feelings of disgust, appeals to popular opinion, calls for censorship or violence and insult because all of this is worthless. After this, there are no substantial arguments worth addressing.6.1. We appreciate your reading this article and hope that we have prompted you to reconsider your views.
7. References
[0] S. Magazine and K. Hamlin, “What Raising the Age of Sexual Consent Taught Women About the Vote,” Smithsonian Magazine. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...ual-consent-taught-women-about-vote-180975658 (accessed Jan. 03, 2023).[1] L. Leppanen, “The Changing Perspective on Adolescence,” Conspectus Borealis, vol. 6, no. 1, Apr. 2020, Accessed: Jan. 03, 2023. [Online]. Available: https://commons.nmu.edu/conspectus_borealis/vol6/iss1/14
[2] R. Epstein, “The Myth of the Teen Brain,” Scientific American. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain (accessed Jan. 03, 2023).
[3] H. E. Hallam, “Age at First Marriage and Age at Death in the Lincolnshire Fenland, 1252- 1478,” Population Studies, vol. 39, no. 1, pp. 55–69, 1985, Accessed: Jan. 03, 2023. [Online]. Available: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2174029
[4] T. Ganchimeg et al., “Pregnancy and childbirth outcomes among adolescent mothers: a World Health Organization multicountry study,” BJOG : an international journal of obstetrics and gynaecology, vol. 121 Suppl 1, pp. 40–8, 2014, doi: 10.1111/1471-0528.12630.
[5] K. Sharma, P. Gupta, and S. Shandilya, “Age related changes in pelvis size among adolescent and adult females with reference to parturition from Naraingarh, Haryana (India),” HOMO, vol. 67, no. 4, pp. 273–293, Aug. 2016, doi: 10.1016/j.jchb.2016.04.002.
[6] J. G. Alves, L. C. Siqueira, L. M. Melo, and J. N. Figueiroa, “Smaller pelvic size in pregnant adolescents contributes to lower birth weight,” International Journal of Adolescent Medicine and Health, vol. 25, no. 2, pp. 139–142, Jun. 2013, doi: 10.1515/ijamh-2013-0021.
[7] A. Reuben, “Therapists Can Share Their Patients’ PTSD,” The Atlantic, Dec. 14, 2015. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/12/ptsd-secondary-trauma/420282 (accessed Jan. 03, 2023).
[8] R. Lievesley and R. Lapworth, “‘We Do Exist’: The Experiences of Women Living with a Sexual Interest in Minors,” Archives of Sexual Behavior, Nov. 2021, doi: 10.1007/s10508-021-02160-z.
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