GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

In a wider and only somewhat related sense, there's also a gaming console doing vector-based graphics, the Vectrex. It wasn't popular in my corner (is a brit thing) of the world but I actually saw one. Something the youtube videos on this will not be able to show you is how smooth the output of these technologies is when doing animation. We kinda lost smooth, stable output in the last thirty years and it doesn't look like it'll ever be back. (The vectrex didn't use any fancy phosphor or special tubes though, it was all in the control circuity) I think using the technology in this console was inspired by the Asteroids arcade game, but I frankly don't really know.

I was actually thinking of the Vectrex when asking and like you say the screen has to be seen to be believed. I actually had one a long time ago, picked it up for 15 euro in box and all with a bunch of games. Never heard of it, thought it was some funky retro junk, then I turned it on. The lines are so sharp and so bright.
The problem was that the Vectrex was limited to drawing a certain amount of lines or something close to that, I don't know, but I know if it exceeded whatever that amount was it would result in flickering/fading. Really cool though.

This is something (allegedly) running on a modified Vectrex and it would be fun to see it in person. (skip around, there's different things done)

 

[Rozzy]

Intel NUC13 Extreme Raptor Canyon Review: Sizzling SFF Performance Powerhouse

www.anandtech.com

The fuck was intel thinking. I would just build my own ITX for this instead? There's no upgrade pathway on the CPU unless that socket is compatible (knowing Intel it won't be)

I'd be ashamed to have a gaming PC that looks like a SFF office PC and would have to hide it away in case my friends saw it. TBH I can see it overheating once dust starts accumulating inside as everything is packed tightly together.

 

[AmpleApricots]

This is something (allegedly) running on a modified Vectrex and it would be fun to see it in person. (skip around, there's different things done)

My guess is he used external input and bypassed the internals. Your hint of flickering and the vast difference displayed in this video tells me that the original CPU couldn't keep up with the practical maximum of the CRT circuitry. I think the vectrex has just a normal black&white TV tube. Unrelated: the vectrex kinda had a funky solution for it's monochrome display in that you put colorful foils on top of the screen depending on game and so you'd get color. Silly if you think about it nowadays, but hey, it worked.

A lot of these old computers and consoloes were built around their video circuity and it shows when much more modern computers just cannot reach (or reach under great difficulty and wtf-levels of effort) the smoothness in output when e.g. scrolling. Too much other stuff going on in a modern computer (and modern screens) and the thing doing the graphics is a computer in itself. Hard to get there.

TBH I can see it overheating once dust starts accumulating inside as everything is packed tightly together.

I bet it overheats by default/has hardware limitations built in/sounds like a jet engine taking off. Otherwise dust filters, and that isn't some weird diss but they're really effective and I consider them a must, especially if you have pets. I love small computers personally but the problem is that the market decrees very fast computers into such more novel cases because these are almost always systems for enthusiasts and fast computers put out a lot of heat and such small cases are just no good for them because physics. The few times a manufacturer does the reasonable and puts a low-power x86 CPU into a small space it always gets panned, even if that x86 CPU is still competitive with similar ARM offerings in power consumption and performance. (while working with many more OSes and programs)

 

[Rozzy]

My guess is he used external input and bypassed the internals. Your hint of flickering and the vast difference displayed in this video tells me that the original CPU couldn't keep up with the practical maximum of the CRT circuitry. I think the vectrex has just a normal black&white TV tube. Unrelated: the vectrex kinda had a funky solution for it's monochrome display in that you put colorful foils on top of the screen depending on game and so you'd get color. Silly if you think about it nowadays, but hey, it worked.

A lot of these old computers and consoloes were built around their video circuity and it shows when much more modern computers just cannot reach (or reach under great difficulty and wtf-levels of effort) the smoothness in output when e.g. scrolling. Too much other stuff going on in a modern computer (and modern screens) and the thing doing the graphics is a computer in itself. Hard to get there.


I bet it overheats by default/has hardware limitations built in/sounds like a jet engine taking off. Otherwise dust filters, and that isn't some weird diss but they're really effective and I consider them a must, especially if you have pets. I love small computers personally but the problem is that the market decrees very fast computers into such more novel cases because these are almost always systems for enthusiasts and fast computers put out a lot of heat and such small cases are just no good for them because physics. The few times a manufacturer does the reasonable and puts a low-power x86 CPU into a small space it always gets panned, even if that x86 CPU is still competitive with similar ARM offerings in power consumption and performance. (while working with many more OSes and programs)

I would guess that it mitigates overheating by CPU throttling, not desirable at all when you're in the thick of action during gameplay.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

My guess is he used external input and bypassed the internals. Your hint of flickering and the vast difference displayed in this video tells me that the original CPU couldn't keep up with the practical maximum of the CRT circuitry. I think the vectrex has just a normal black&white TV tube. Unrelated: the vectrex kinda had a funky solution for it's monochrome display in that you put colorful foils on top of the screen depending on game and so you'd get color. Silly if you think about it nowadays, but hey, it worked.

A lot of these old computers and consoloes were built around their video circuity and it shows when much more modern computers just cannot reach (or reach under great difficulty and wtf-levels of effort) the smoothness in output when e.g. scrolling. Too much other stuff going on in a modern computer (and modern screens) and the thing doing the graphics is a computer in itself. Hard to get there.

It was almost 20 years ago that I sold it, but my thought was that the magnetron should be able to keep up to some extent so it was probably the system not being able to deal with more than calculating and outputting a few start-end lines to draw. The Vectrex was all sharp angles, not many of them before they start to break down, it could probably do curved surfaces if it had the CPU power to tell the screen what it wants. But it was the early 80's and a CPU for children. It is really interesting though, if they used a very simple pythagoras theorem as a base(simple way to determine the distance and path between two points in 2D space before resorting to LUTs) they needed to do some clipping for drawing the vectors. Drawing things outside of the screen is a disaster because it writes into places it shouldn't. That would also be very early in time for that kind of thing.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

Interesting- there's a 'Scopetrex' project that lets the electronically competent play Vectrex games, based on the original microprocessors (probably a similar price to what they would have cost the Vectrex manufacturers originally at this point), on a high quality classic oscilloscope. Beyond my capabilities to assemble let alone troubleshoot at this point but very cool.

GitHub - schlae/scopetrex: SCOPETREX vector gaming on your oscilloscope!

SCOPETREX vector gaming on your oscilloscope! Contribute to schlae/scopetrex development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[Kane Lives]

Happy new year guys.

So, in this year of the lord 2023, I decided to bite the bullet and start putting together my new PC. Prices are probably going to be as good as it gets, with crypto being shitblasted and Chyna finally lifting its stupid COVID bullshit.

I have decided to go with at least these components:
Ryzen 5 5600
Radeon RX 6600
(probably) 32 GB or so of DDR4 RAM
Some sort of 1/2TB NVME drive + 2TB SATA for storage purposes

My main question mark now is what sort of motherboard should I use to stick all these disparate components into. Any ideas? Not looking for specific price recommendations, as I'm not in the US, but anything that's probably below $500 is appreciated. Doubt it'd translate perfectly, but I'm mostly looking into suggestions so I know where even to start looking, as it had been a literal decade since I put together anything, and done any research that isn't just looking at pretty benchmarks. Futureproofing is appreciated but not mandatory. Very unlikely to be upgrading unless this shit is literally unable to run games even at medium, which given the current trajectory of games in general, is highly unlikely at this point.

My use case would probably be light/medium gaming for the occasional AAA. So long it runs shit like Darktide at 60fps in 1080p, I'm happy.

EDIT: I'd also like to take the opportunity to say that review sites are all niggers when it comes to actually reviewing shit, and full of useless slop like this:

 

[SilentDuck]

Happy new year guys.

So, in this year of the lord 2023, I decided to bite the bullet and start putting together my new PC. Prices are probably going to be as good as it gets, with crypto being shitblasted and Chyna finally lifting its stupid COVID bullshit.

I have decided to go with at least these components:
Ryzen 5 5600
Radeon RX 6600
(probably) 32 GB or so of DDR4 RAM
Some sort of 1/2TB NVME drive + 2TB SATA for storage purposes

My main question mark now is what sort of motherboard should I use to stick all these disparate components into. Any ideas? Not looking for specific price recommendations, as I'm not in the US, but anything that's probably below $500 is appreciated. Doubt it'd translate perfectly, but I'm mostly looking into suggestions so I know where even to start looking, as it had been a literal decade since I put together anything, and done any research that isn't just looking at pretty benchmarks. Futureproofing is appreciated but not mandatory. Very unlikely to be upgrading unless this shit is literally unable to run games even at medium, which given the current trajectory of games in general, is highly unlikely at this point.

My use case would probably be light/medium gaming for the occasional AAA. So long it runs shit like Darktide at 60fps in 1080p, I'm happy.

EDIT: I'd also like to take the opportunity to say that review sites are all niggers when it comes to actually reviewing shit, and full of useless slop like this:

Lots of Black Friday and Xmas sales on MicroATX AMD motherboards if you are willing to take that size. For Ryzen 5 5600 type builds MSI Tomahawks are really popular in Micro form factor.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Happy new year guys.

To echo what @SilentDuck siad, I use a 5600x on an MSI B550 Tomahawk (ATX) and it works fine.

 

[Pissmaster]

I was actually thinking of the Vectrex when asking and like you say the screen has to be seen to be believed. I actually had one a long time ago, picked it up for 15 euro in box and all with a bunch of games.

i want to die

Never heard of it, thought it was some funky retro junk, then I turned it on. The lines are so sharp and so bright.
The problem was that the Vectrex was limited to drawing a certain amount of lines or something close to that, I don't know, but I know if it exceeded whatever that amount was it would result in flickering/fading. Really cool though.

This is something (allegedly) running on a modified Vectrex and it would be fun to see it in person. (skip around, there's different things done)

The Vectrex is one of the only machines I've seen at gaming conventions where I was so impressed, I wanted to get one immediately. By the time I discovered them, though, they were already like $600+ on eBay. They are outstanding looking in person and you just can't experience them through videos online. It kills me that vector CRTs aren't just something you can buy and DIY a custom Vectrex & MAME machine with, due to the CRT tech inside working differently than usual.

 

[byuu]

It kills me that vector CRTs aren't just something you can buy and DIY a custom Vectrex & MAME machine with, due to the CRT tech inside working differently than usual.

You can actually turn an normal CRT into a vector display by modifying the coils (also needs a board to drive the modified tube):

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Happy new year guys.

So, in this year of the lord 2023, I decided to bite the bullet and start putting together my new PC. Prices are probably going to be as good as it gets, with crypto being shitblasted and Chyna finally lifting its stupid COVID bullshit.

I have decided to go with at least these components:
Ryzen 5 5600
Radeon RX 6600
(probably) 32 GB or so of DDR4 RAM
Some sort of 1/2TB NVME drive + 2TB SATA for storage purposes

My main question mark now is what sort of motherboard should I use to stick all these disparate components into. Any ideas? Not looking for specific price recommendations, as I'm not in the US, but anything that's probably below $500 is appreciated. Doubt it'd translate perfectly, but I'm mostly looking into suggestions so I know where even to start looking, as it had been a literal decade since I put together anything, and done any research that isn't just looking at pretty benchmarks. Futureproofing is appreciated but not mandatory. Very unlikely to be upgrading unless this shit is literally unable to run games even at medium, which given the current trajectory of games in general, is highly unlikely at this point.

My use case would probably be light/medium gaming for the occasional AAA. So long it runs shit like Darktide at 60fps in 1080p, I'm happy.

EDIT: I'd also like to take the opportunity to say that review sites are all niggers when it comes to actually reviewing shit, and full of useless slop like this:
View attachment 4173514

If you don't give a damn about overclocking, almost any A520 board will be fine. The Asus A520 prime board is quite good and relatively inexpensive.

 

[Gatdam Animal Person]

My main question mark now is what sort of motherboard should I use to stick all these disparate components into. Any ideas? Not looking for specific price recommendations, as I'm not in the US, but anything that's probably below $500 is appreciated. Doubt it'd translate perfectly, but I'm mostly looking into suggestions so I know where even to start looking, as it had been a literal decade since I put together anything, and done any research that isn't just looking at pretty benchmarks. Futureproofing is appreciated but not mandatory. Very unlikely to be upgrading unless this shit is literally unable to run games even at medium, which given the current trajectory of games in general, is highly unlikely at this point.

As @Friendly Primarina and @SilentDuck said, the B550 Tomahawk is pretty good for the price. But, if you were to purchase a mATX motherboard (and you need a case for it), I recommend you the "Thermaltake Core V21". Really easy to modify and upgrade, it looks slick, and it's compact and spacious at the same time.

Just, look at it :

 

[Post Reply]

To echo what @SilentDuck siad, I use a 5600x on an MSI B550 Tomahawk (ATX) and it works fine.

I have a B550 Tomahawk with a 5700x and 5700xt. It is a great board with only one major downside that I have found. When both m.2 slots are occupied, you can't use the second PCIe x16 slot at all. No sound card, HBA, or second GPU.

 

[Kane Lives]

As @Friendly Primarina and @SilentDuck said, the B550 Tomahawk is pretty good for the price. But, if you were to purchase a mATX motherboard (and you need a case for it), I recommend you the "Thermaltake Core V21". Really easy to modify and upgrade, it looks slick, and it's compact and spacious at the same time.

Just, look at it :
View attachment 4177340

That actually does look very slick. I wasn't actually considering such a small mobo, but...

Thanks for all the recommendations, by and by. Far more informative than a dozen "Top 10 GAMER MOBO in 2022!!!" articles.

 

[SilentDuck]

That actually does look very slick. I wasn't actually considering such a small mobo, but...

Thanks for all the recommendations, by and by. Far more informative than a dozen "Top 10 GAMER MOBO in 2022!!!" articles.

A big youtuber was helpful in his 2022 wrap up. He said the Ryzen 5 5700x was the best upgrade CPU for 2022 if you already have a AMD board and the i5-13600k is the best cost/performance/longevity for starting a brand new build in 2022. I didn't find this vid until after a few days of sifting through opinions and sales.

5600 AMD is very cheap and compelling, I eyed it for a while then the 5700x and a few places had 5800x3d CPUs in stock and on sale and the AMD fans suggest it has other worldly abilities. I eventually settled on the 13600k myself, but a great reason to pursue cheaper builds with older components is rumours of quality control going out the window during the pandemic (ie, ASUS installing capacitors backwards on highend boards). So the on sale/old stock boards (ie, MSI tomahawk again) from early 2020 could be an even better value.

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

A big youtuber was helpful in his 2022 wrap up. He said the Ryzen 5 5700x was the best upgrade CPU for 2022 if you already have a AMD board

I mean, I don't really need anyone's validation, but it sure is nice that someone agrees with my plan of action, regardless of who this mysterious Youtube figure is.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

CES is coming up, what are you looking forward to? Some choices:

AMD: Zen 4 X3D, Zen 4 non-X 65W CPUs, more RDNA 3 GPUs, Phoenix Point APUs, Dragon Range mobile (possibly with V-Cache)
Intel: 13900KS, non-K Raptor Lake CPUs, Raptor Lake mobile HX/H/P/U, Alder Lake-N, workstation Xeons, Sapphire Rapids
Nvidia: 4080 12 GB $800 Edition, Lovelace mobile
Other companies like MediaTek flogging Wi-Fi 7

 

[seri0us]

CES is coming up, what are you looking forward to? Some choices:

AMD: Zen 4 X3D, Zen 4 non-X 65W CPUs, more RDNA 3 GPUs, Phoenix Point APUs, Dragon Range mobile (possibly with V-Cache)
Intel: 13900KS, non-K Raptor Lake CPUs, Raptor Lake mobile HX/H/P/U, Alder Lake-N, workstation Xeons, Sapphire Rapids
Nvidia: 4080 12 GB $800 Edition, Lovelace mobile
Other companies like MediaTek flogging Wi-Fi 7

I'm looking forward / hoping for some manufacturer of the allegedly "bio degradable" water cooling fluid to be there so that somebody can challenge their representatives to drink it. Also the graphics cards.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Only care about Zen4 X3d chips. The GPU market can rot and die for all I care. I'm pretty tired of people simping for this shit.