GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[Slav Power]

MSi really needs to hire better PR people.

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[The Ugly One]

Intel NUC13 Extreme Raptor Canyon Review: Sizzling SFF Performance Powerhouse

www.anandtech.com

The fuck was intel thinking. I would just build my own ITX for this instead? There's no upgrade pathway on the CPU unless that socket is compatible (knowing Intel it won't be)

The socket has nothing at all to do with the case's form factor, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about, or why you think it will be different if you build your own Mini-ITX with a 13th gen CPU.

It also appears most Mini-ITX cases support CPUS with TDPs of 65W to 95W. This is a 150W CPU, and it fits the new triple-slot GPUs.

Anyway, what they're thinking is that they've sold 10 million NUC systems to date, and they sell all the high-end Extremes they make every year. Unfortunately, this one's extra big because NVIDIA went full retard with GPU form factor this year, and you can't just not support NVIDIA cards.

I'd be ashamed to have a gaming PC that looks like a SFF office PC and would have to hide it away in case my friends saw it. TBH I can see it overheating once dust starts accumulating inside as everything is packed tightly together.

As with past NUCs, it doesn't vent into the case. The vents go directly to the outside. Don't let your cat sit on top of it. And yes, computers might overheat if you don't occasionally clear out the dust.

I would guess that it mitigates overheating by CPU throttling, not desirable at all when you're in the thick of action during gameplay.

Competently programmed (i.e. not Paradox) games use hardly any CPU to begin with.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

MSi really needs to hire better PR people.
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I of course have a MSI gpu...god dammit.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Competently programmed (i.e. not AAA Paradox) games use hardly any CPU to begin with.

I'll be waiting to see an "optimized" game nowdays lol.

 

[The Ugly One]

I'll be waiting to see an "optimized" game nowdays lol.

I don't know of any single-threaded AAA games, nor any that show up as CPU-bound in benchmarks. Paradox, on the other hand, apparently thinks it's still 2004.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

I don't know of any single-threaded AAA games, nor any that show up as CPU-bound in benchmarks. Paradox, on the other hand, apparently thinks it's still 2004.

Clausewitz engine just got 64 bit iirc..... Paradox is less about coding and more about doing vn styled "grand" strategy games.

Any thoughts on intels announcement for 13th gen core?

Intel Announces Non-K 13th Gen Core For Desktop: New 65 W and 35 W Processors

www.anandtech.com

	Cores P+E/T	P-Core Base	P-Core Turbo	E-Core Base	E-Core Turbo	L3 Cache (MB)	IGP	Base W	Turbo W	Price ($)
i9-13900K	8+16/32	3300	5800	2200	4300	36	770	125	253	$589
i9-13900KF	8+16/32	3300	5800	2200	4300	36	-	125	253	$564
i9-13900	8+16/32	2000	5600	1500	4200	36	770	65	219	$549
i9-13900F	8+16/32	2000	5600	1500	4200	36	-	65	219	$524
i9-13900T	8+16/32	1100	5300	800	3900	36	770	35	106	$549

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

So I just found out that literally none of the stores in my area that sell computers actually have CPU coolers, beyond a tiny handful of very expensive AIO's in the $200+ range that don't fit my case. Meaning the I5 I just bought is literally a $340 paperweight.

Meanwhile Amazombie has an AIO from a name-brand for $90 and the same CPU for $50 cheaper.

Take note, CEO's of brick-and-mortar stores, this is why nobody wants to shop at your places anymore. And waiting 20 minutes for the snot-nosed kid who didn't even know what a CPU cooler was (while working in the Desktop section) to try to find someone else...and watching the kid getting rudely rebuffed for daring to bother the old fart who was visibly doing fuck-all in the inventory cage.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Clausewitz engine just got 64 bit iirc..... Paradox is less about coding and more about doing vn styled "grand" strategy games.

Any thoughts on intels announcement for 13th gen core?

Intel Announces Non-K 13th Gen Core For Desktop: New 65 W and 35 W Processors

www.anandtech.com

	Cores P+E/T	P-Core Base	P-Core Turbo	E-Core Base	E-Core Turbo	L3 Cache (MB)	IGP	Base W	Turbo W	Price ($)
i9-13900K	8+16/32	3300	5800	2200	4300	36	770	125	253	$589
i9-13900KF	8+16/32	3300	5800	2200	4300	36	-	125	253	$564
i9-13900	8+16/32	2000	5600	1500	4200	36	770	65	219	$549
i9-13900F	8+16/32	2000	5600	1500	4200	36	-	65	219	$524
i9-13900T	8+16/32	1100	5300	800	3900	36	770	35	106	$549

Keep in mind, 13600 and lower are Alder Lake with less L2 cache, but adding all those small cores could be nice.

They should have put a 4+4/12 in the gap between 13100 and 13400.

 

[The Ugly One]

Keep in mind, 13600 and lower are Alder Lake with less L2 cache, but adding all those small cores could be nice.

Where did you hear they're using Golden Cove P-cores? Going back to last-year's P-cores would be a weird decision. They aren't cheaper to fabricate; they're just less efficient and can't clock as high.

	Base clock	Turbo	L2	E-cores
i5-13600T	3.4 GHz	4.8 GHz	11.5 MB	0
15-12600T	2.1 GHz	4.6 GHz	7.5 MB	8

Any thoughts on intels announcement for 13th gen core?

Intel Announces Non-K 13th Gen Core For Desktop: New 65 W and 35 W Processors

www.anandtech.com

	Cores P+E/T	P-Core Base	P-Core Turbo	E-Core Base	E-Core Turbo	L3 Cache (MB)	IGP	Base W	Turbo W	Price ($)
i9-13900K	8+16/32	3300	5800	2200	4300	36	770	125	253	$589
i9-13900KF	8+16/32	3300	5800	2200	4300	36	-	125	253	$564
i9-13900	8+16/32	2000	5600	1500	4200	36	770	65	219	$549
i9-13900F	8+16/32	2000	5600	1500	4200	36	-	65	219	$524
i9-13900T	8+16/32	1100	5300	800	3900	36	770	35	106	$549
19-12900	8+8/24	2400	5100	1800	2400	30	770	65	202	$509

All-in-one and mini PCs are the only growth sectors of the PC industry right now, while traditional towers have collapsed. Aside from the end of the lockdown boomlet, it's pretty clear the biggest, hottest machines have overshot the market. So, I have an i9-12900 desktop (added to your table), and while I haven't done any fancy profiling or roofline analysis, I have eyeballed a performance monitor during games (Deep Rock Galactic & MWII mainly), and I don't think I've seen a single core go over 20% utilization. Oh, and then there are a lot of bugs on the screen, every core is getting used, not just the P-Cores.

So it makes sense for them to introduce low-TDP processors. The less heat the engineer has to manage, the smaller he can make the form factor. The E-Cores are almost as powerful as Skylake cores, and given how parallelized everything is these days, those 65W i9s and i7s should crush any consumer workload (image & video viewing, web browsing, games). I'm curious about how that 1.1 Ghz chip will actually hold up under use. I'm guessing that's going in their tiniest NUCs.

 

[AmpleApricots]

MSi really needs to hire better PR people.

if you scroll their feed it gets p. clear that thing is ran by some furry

 

[DeadwastePrime]

So I just found out that literally none of the stores in my area that sell computers actually have CPU coolers, beyond a tiny handful of very expensive AIO's in the $200+ range that don't fit my case. Meaning the I5 I just bought is literally a $340 paperweight.

Meanwhile Amazombie has an AIO from a name-brand for $90 and the same CPU for $50 cheaper.

Take note, CEO's of brick-and-mortar stores, this is why nobody wants to shop at your places anymore. And waiting 20 minutes for the snot-nosed kid who didn't even know what a CPU cooler was (while working in the Desktop section) to try to find someone else...and watching the kid getting rudely rebuffed for daring to bother the old fart who was visibly doing fuck-all in the inventory cage.

this is why i wished they had a microcenter near us

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Good ole Nvidia putting another nail in the coffin of PC building by releasing a $800+ 4070ti. What a shitshow, and yet people still simp for it.

Look at this shit. This is the level of simp we're at. Oh, the cost is great because they can do oh so much more than play games. Learn to research, plebs.

 

[Cubanodun]

Nvidia: our 4070ti is as powerful as 3 3090TI COMBINEDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reality: EVGA 3090ti beat the 4070ti in all benchmark and cost 200 bucks less, 7900 dab on them in all games at the same price

NVIDIA being beaten by NVIDIA will never stop being funny

 

[AmpleApricots]

nvidia just wants people to keep paying cryptominer prices. It's hard to believe that people like pic related above really exist and aren't just corpo shills but they do. I never understood the intense need of some people to justify their incredibly poor spending habits with brain acrobatics like that.

I do agree though that it makes literally no sense to pay for ~$1000 for a graphics card for gaming only. It'd already be a stretch to invest $200 just to be able to play the current gen of AAA shovelware tbh. But that's just like, my opinion man. I still often even see GTA5 mentioned in benchmarks. That game came out almost 10 years ago. Kinda tells you more than I think they want to tell.

 

[Cubanodun]

I still often even see GTA5 mentioned in benchmarks.

GTA 5 is often used to test mini computers because of how optimized it is, the 4090 has for now being the only GPU that has managed to cap the FPS of the RAGE engine

In other news if you want to have a idea of how bad it is today for NVIDIA just check the words of the prophet steve blessed be his name, yes, is that bad and the corpo shills are being mauled and executed in the streets

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

this is why i wished they had a microcenter near us

I went and got the autograph of the oldbeard running the Radio Shack near my old house because I knew there would never be another, and I'd bought a bunch of odd parts for my little kid DIY projects over the years. Sometimes I hate being right. In fact I underestimated it...

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Where did you hear they're using Golden Cove P-cores? Going back to last-year's P-cores would be a weird decision. They aren't cheaper to fabricate; they're just less efficient and can't clock as high.

	Base clock	Turbo	L2	E-cores
i5-13600T	3.4 GHz	4.8 GHz	11.5 MB	0
15-12600T	2.1 GHz	4.6 GHz	7.5 MB	8

Your 13600T clock is wrong, 3.4 GHz is the E-core turbo for 13600T. P-core base clock is 1.8 GHz, which is actually lower than 12600T. Not that a lower base clock matters too much, it's all about boosting to what is needed and can be cooled these days.

There might be some minor efficiency gains in Raptor Lake that allowed them to raise clocks, but not magic ones.

Fabrication cost is probably not the issue. I assume these are from unused Alder Lake wafers.

Intel Launches Lower-Priced 13th Gen Core Desktop Processors with 65W

Intel today expanded its 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" Socket LGA1700 desktop processor family with several new 65 W mainstream models. These include all the SKUs that lack an unlocked multiplier, aren't meant for CPU overclocking, and come with slightly lower frequencies and tighter...

www.techpowerup.com

The i5-13500 and i5-13600 come with 11.5 MB of total L2 cache, which is only possible if the L2 cache per P-core is 1.25 MB (like the "Golden Cove" cores on "Alder Lake" chips, and if the L2 cache per "Gracemont" E-core cluster is 2 MB. These are in sharp contrast to the Core i5-13600K, which has 2 MB L2 cache per P-core, and 4 MB L2 cache per E-core cluster. There had been rumors that 13th Gen Core i5 and Core i3 65 W processors are based on the older "Alder Lake" architecture with generational increases in CPU core-counts; but Intel wouldn't confirm this. The L2 caches certainly seem to suggest that this is the case.

Intel's 13th Gen 13600 and below to be based on the older Alder Lake architecture

Only the 13600K, Core i7, and Core i9 ranges reportedly come with Intel's new Raptor Lake architecture.

www.pcgamer.com

According to leaked slides from Igor's Lab (via 3Dcenter.org) the non-K i5 chips won't be based on the Raptor Lake architecture, but instead be based on the existing 12th Gen Alder Lake with its Golden Cove P cores. This means the likes of the 13400, 13500 and 13600 will miss out on the Cypress Cove P core improvements that come with Raptor Lake, including cache size increases.

One interesting note about the refresh is that there was no 6+8 desktop chip before the 13500. There was 6+4 and 8+4. 13500 is the top Alder Lake desktop silicon with two P-cores disabled.

 

[Pissmaster]

MSi really needs to hire better PR people.
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Their goofy name always makes me think of Mindless Self Indulgence, which is apparently a perfect fit for describing MSI's social media presence

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Their goofy name always makes me think of Mindless Self Indulgence, which is apparently a perfect fit for describing MSI's social media presence

Could be worse. ECS comes to mind. I keep thinking biostar= biochar.

 

[Kane Lives]

nvidia just wants people to keep paying cryptominer prices. It's hard to believe that people like pic related above really exist and aren't just corpo shills but they do. I never understood the intense need of some people to justify their incredibly poor spending habits with brain acrobatics like that.

I do agree though that it makes literally no sense to pay for ~$1000 for a graphics card for gaming only. It'd already be a stretch to invest $200 just to be able to play the current gen of AAA shovelware tbh. But that's just like, my opinion man. I still often even see GTA5 mentioned in benchmarks. That game came out almost 10 years ago. Kinda tells you more than I think they want to tell.

I am happy in my decision to go "fuck nvidia".