Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread - Episode III - Revenge of the Ruski (now unlocked with new skins and gameplay modes!!!)

[Random Internet Person]

 

[teriyakiburns]

Wasn't it in some way connected to the Alternative for Germany? That makes me think that's stuff that glows and was designed to smack the opposition.

Wasn't there some revelation recently that almost all the "right wing" twitter accounts in Germany were run by law enforcement agencies?

 

[Doinker Marmalade]

"We got our ass kicked one more time". One more time? As in... more than once? Multiple times, even?

 

[siegemeister675]

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Russians are the real "zogniks."

 

[Ghostse]

Well ackshually Hitler managed to conquer most of continental Europe with only 30 000 casualties on his side. Not even Napoleon managed to do that.

3rd Reich lost for 3 reasons:
1) Hitler was dumb enough to believe that British will come to their senses and join him on his crusade to exterminate communism, so he cancelled operation Sea Lion. If he went with it, Churchil's speech would have a sequel: We shall fight them on the beaches... for about 10 minutes. We shall fight them on the hills... for about an hour and Britain wouldn't serve as a port for Americans ships supplying the Soviets.
2) Hitler was too snobby to court Belarussians, Poles, Ukrainians, all those ethnic groups who hated Soviets much more than Nazis. If he was humble enough to give them some honorary Aryan status instead of bullying them immediately, he'd beat Soviet Russia hands down.
3) USA, or to be more precise Roosevelt, really wanted to fuck with Germany. The first 2 reasons could be just setbacks, but having USA in the equation doomed 3rd Reich from the start.

Like it or not, Nazis were like Tutsi, Zulu, Sikhs, etc.: not very numerous, but very resourceful and disciplined ethnic groups who'd conquer (genocide) their neighbors and keep order and unity if not for a much stronger entity meddling in their affairs (do-gooders and fools like Bono for Tutsi, British Empire for Zulu and Sikhs, USA for Nazis) who had it in their best interest to keep the place hopelessly messed up and divided.

Hilter's two main mistakes were not making the holocaust about the gypsies instead of the Jews not going full war economy/mobilization after 1939 (and in general wasting time/money/talent on vunderwaffen) and outrunning his supply lines in Russia. And then later in the war, made a third mistake of trying to micromanage the war instead of leaving it to his generals.

Read Inside the Third Reich, Speer talks about how disorganized the German logistics and war production was, and everyone was mainly trying to play cash grab instead of trying to win a war.

It also talked about his long term mistake, which was complete dismissal of the Americans and their war machine.

Sea Lion was never more than a fantasy anyway. The Germans had none of the resources necessary to mount a seaborne invasion of the UK.

What are you on about? It's not even controversial anymore to claim that Sea Lion would have been a success. The Royal Military Academy itself admited it was likely to succeed, and during the war when UK noticed German's preparing for Sea Lion their intelligence was shitting its pants 24/7 because they knew Germans could land. The only real controversy that remains is whether or not the Germans would later get pushed out of England, but given how underequiped UK was at that point, it is unlikely they would have pushed them out (though the British Military disagrees, as does the common consensus).

The English channel is close enough, and landing craft inexpensive enough to produce, Germany could have remedied that in a year if they had dedicated themselves to it. Hell, just make barges Uboats could push and your capacity to move troops is solved.

As @Useful_Mistake said, the issue is if Germany could have kept it up. Germany didn't have the aircraft to match the RAF - the Blitz was as 'successful' as it was because the RAF was forced to play defense against an enemy that could strike from anywhere. The Luffewaffe could have screened the invasion, and the KM could have held the home fleet at bay for a day* when supported by shore batteries. The problem is that wasn't sustainable. By about day two of the invasion, excepting some dramatic turn like a stunning KM victory at sea or massive losses by the RAF, German troops would have been running low on supplies and this is when the lack of sea/airlift would have come into play. Additionally while you could task fishing boats to deliver troops, you couldn't do that to deliver tanks.

Any ship large enough to carry tanks would be large enough to be spotted and a prime target for the RAF. So even if we want to pretend the KM have a decisive victory that allows them naval control of the channel, The Luffewaffe wouldn't have the planes to defend the channel from RAF strikes for the several hours it takes to cross. You could get vital supplies (ammo, food) across at night via Uboat, but you aren't getting Tigers. This inability to do Panzer Grenadier + lack of paratroop would negate German blitzkrieg advantages. Even given how tragically unprepared British troops & defenses were, they could hold against the initial push.

* Kriegsmarine could have held off the homefleet on paper at least. But and that would assume the homefleet hadn't likewise redeployed from their patrol anchorages in response, or hadn't taken advantage of significant Kreigsmarine assets being within reach and gone for a preemptive stike. That is, Germany would have needed to move significant naval assets without being detected - that wasn't happening. If the Brits had that sort of warning it was coming you could park the Hood in the middle of the channel before germany could blockade it and just blow up the invasion force while its still in Calais.
And in all likelyhood a fight for the channel would have been the decisive naval engagement the admiralty had been hoping for. Kriegsmarine had newer ships with (on paper) better big guns, but too few of them with less experienced crews and captains. More likely the KM gets spent and now your Sealion Beachhead is both cut off AND in range of naval bombardment.
Provided the political class doesn't toss in the towel, naturally.

@teriyakiburns agreed, though in hindsight it would be possible to gobble up the Isles first before opening up the Eastern Front. My point was that Hitler admired the British Empire and thought the British could be his friends.

Not exactly friends, but he thought he could get England to capituate and go back to business as usual, and eventually get British Socialists to Nationalize.

Sure in 2023 this is clear madness, but in 1933 it wasn't that outlandish of a thought.

The English banks back-stabbed American & French banks when Hitler's pre-war finance minister negotiated separate terms for WWI reparations (tl;dr they wrote down accumulated interest and lowered the rate in exchange for a percentage of Germany's trade surplus with England, allowing English banks to get repaid with hard goods. This let them get repaid first and in a manner completely separated from the Mark's hyper inflation.) Germany pre-war (both of them) was England's #1 trading partner, and Chamberlain greenlit his take over of central Europe.

And Hitler not only was a bit of an Angloboo but he figured he could the English people to force their leaders into accepting peace. Instead he just wasted feul, planes, and pilots and only got the British public more firmly behind Churchill - but TBF the cost of the blitz was far less than even the rosiest estimates of Sealion would have been.

The issue with this was that Germany's navy at the time was completely unprepared to land much of anything in the English channel and the Home Fleet was still a threat that effectively patrol the open seas and the Dover area was very much heavily fortified. The only way Operation Sea Lion wouldn't have been a big disaster if Winston Churchill shat his pants and surrendered the moment Fallschirmjägers landed around London. Even then, that over-rated drunk would still likely have kept going at it because he was so bullheaded that he would have rather shot himself than go down in history as a disastrous leader as he was seen after Gallipoli.

This could have been remedied and the short distance of the channel makes the size of your fleet less important than the speed. The bigger issue is, as you said, the Home Fleet was more than a match for the Kriegsmarine, which is why Germany had to keep their ships separated and either constantly moving or in areas so secure via unmatched German airpower there wasn't a concern.

The British admiralty had wet dreams of getting the Kriegsmarine into a decisive naval engagement. The British had enough fleet resources able to make small (navally) unopposed landings in Norway that germany didn't really even try to do anything about from a naval perspective. The removal of the Kriegsmarine would have allowed them to make those harrassing actions a proper invasion.

While General retreat was busy shelling civilians

Be careful about speaking disparagingly about Ol' Borscht-and-Gutski or you're going to look like a Yooknik idiot being clowned on by the totally normal Vatniks posting warporn like normal well-adjusted people when he stops fucking up as bad as his predecessors.

He did made the most tactically intelligent call of the war yet when he abandoned Kherson instead of attempting to maintain & supply a presence there, and was able to cram that decision through the Kremlin's political class. He's dangerously close to an effective military leader. He is leaning all the way into Russia's strengths: meat grindering conscripts at Bakhmut the ability to launch strikes in a quantity Ukraine cannot respond to. Sure Ukraine is getting in some sick burns by blowing up their strategic bombers, but its not blacking out large swaths of the Russian country side.

 

[AgendaPoster]

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Already seen some neo Nazis from TRS/NJP coping&seething about this and trying to find a narrative that doesn't damage their "The Kike Of KYYYYYYVVV and Israel are anti-Russian hohol joo scum" previous attempt at propaganda.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Wasn't there some revelation recently that almost all the "right wing" twitter accounts in Germany were run by law enforcement agencies?

Not sure, but sounds like something they’d do. Now I wonder if the same thing will be done with pro-Russia talking points.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

Great news for vatniggers who have been on the fence about joining the military: Martial law is coming this January!

Ukraine called on Russians to avoid mobilization at all cost

According to the head of Ukrainian Defence Intelligence, the Russian leadership has decided to start a new wave of mobilisation from 5 January 2023, due to the lack of manpower.

www.express.co.uk

>Source: Ukraine
>Reason: no manpower

They're still shitting out these stories? They started 19 days after the war started, and are still going, huh?

Btw, Zelensky has issued Martial Law, you realize that? Are you gonna shit on him too?

MARTIAL LAW – UkraineInvest

ukraineinvest.gov.ua

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Plz add links to such posts.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Not sure, but sounds like something they’d do. Now I wonder if the same thing will be done with pro-Russia talking points.

Regardless of my opinions on the conflict, I know for sure that's something they must be itching to do. Germany loves stomping on non-approved opinions, moreso even than the UK government. If they can tie opposition to the war, or even mealy-mouthed support of Russia to the nebulous "right wing threat", they'll do it. Gives them an excuse to arrest people.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

What are you on about? It's not even controversial anymore to claim that Sea Lion would have been a success. The Royal Military Academy itself admited it was likely to succeed,

Go read the fucking article. They don't mention that at all. An invasion would be risky as the Home Fleet would have blown through the invasion fleet like a blow torch. Even in the wargames that were undertaken massive parameters had to be adjusted to give the Germans a chance.

and during the war when UK noticed German's preparing for Sea Lion their intelligence was shitting its pants 24/7 because they knew Germans could land. The only real controversy that remains is whether or not the Germans would later get pushed out of England, but given how underequiped UK was at that point, it is unlikely they would have pushed them out (though the British Military disagrees, as does the common consensus).

The British were worried, but the Germans didn't have the logistical ability to land during a contested battle.

 

[Ghostse]

Btw, Zelensky has issued Martial Law, you realize that?

Stop being a dishonest fag. One of these leaders has foreign troops invading his country, the other is invading a country 1/10th its size and getting his ass handed to him.

Agree about the Pressing X on "source from Ukraine" regarding Russian political actions though.

Back to Russia:

Seems like all that anti-Russia propaganda is having some effect on the non-Russians in Russia:
"The number of crimes committed by foreign nationals in Russia in the first 11 months of 2022 rose by ten percent compared to the same period last year, the Interior Ministry said in a statement."

Russia records highest number of crimes committed by foreign nationals in five years

The number of crimes committed by foreign nationals in Russia in the first 11 months of 2022 rose by ten percent compared to the same period last year

tass.com

More likely Russian cops have been instructed to make arrests and write reports instead of taking bribes. The more foreigners in jail, the better odds you can make hilariously lopsided trades with Ol' HairSniffin' Joe

FWIW, though I think removing pressure on the German govt in the future was a major reason for the pipeline's destruction, Georgia Meloni was elected Prime Minister of Italy a couple of days before and she had spoken against sanctioning Russian gas so possibly more of a reason than the nascent protests in Germany.

If it was the US, why didn't they blow up Nordstream I when they were blowing up Nordstream II?

The reason Russia would want to blow up Nordstream II is *deep breath*
The sanctions on gas products from Russia are not uniform, and Nord Steam I, being the old pipeline, has decades old agreements for delivery largely immune from sanctions being these were negotiated in the 90s. NS2 is - planning asside - all post 2014 and open for full sanctions, though some deliveries on NS2 were immune from sanctions. The idea being that non-sanctioned NS2 deliveries now transit NS1, which allows Russia to try to ramrod delivers that should be sanctioned over NS1 and then Hope and Pay-off that administrative snafus will keep that information from getting out.

The British were worried, but the Germans didn't have the logistical ability to land during a contested battle.

This; the home guard feared saboteur hit-and-run fuck-fuck games like Britain was doing in Norway (and greece), but Germany lacked the naval resources to support even smash-and-grabs like that and Germany Naval Command feared losing ships a pitched battle. The concern was more that if Germany figured out a way to pull that sort of thing off, they were woefully unprepared, and if germany could land and supply an invasion, the ground forces on Isle were boned.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

Stop being a dishonest fag. One of these leaders has foreign troops invading his country, the other is invading a country 1/10th its size and getting his ass handed to him.

I'm a mod, it's my job to be a fag. Jokes aside, I don't really think it's dishonest. I believe I am just adding context (though I could be nicer about it).

More likely Russian cops have been instructed to make arrests and write reports instead of taking bribes. The more foreigners in jail, the better odds you can make hilariously lopsided trades with Ol' HairSniffin' Joe

Oh, shit, I don't know how that hasn't occured to me. Good point!

The reason Russia would want to blow up Nordstream II is *deep breath*
The sanctions on gas products from Russia are not uniform, and Nord Steam I, being the old pipeline, has decades old agreements for delivery largely immune from sanctions being these were negotiated in the 90s. NS2 is - planning asside - all post 2014 and open for full sanctions, though some deliveries on NS2 were immune from sanctions. The idea being that non-sanctioned NS2 deliveries now transit NS1, which allows Russia to try to ramrod delivers that should be sanctioned over NS1 and then Hope and Pay-off that administrative snafus will keep that information from getting out.

They could have also just closed the pipeline, and if needed cite some unspecified damage. Even WaPo was forced to admit there is very little to no evidence that Russia was involved, and more and more European officials are starting to agree (though, of course, that doesn't really mean anything)

 

[CaptainAutism69]

Stop being a dishonest fag. One of these leaders has foreign troops invading his country, the other is invading a country 1/10th its size and getting his ass handed to him.

Agree about the Pressing X on "source from Ukraine" regarding Russian political actions though.


More likely Russian cops have been instructed to make arrests and write reports instead of taking bribes. The more foreigners in jail, the better odds you can make hilariously lopsided trades with Ol' HairSniffin' Joe



If it was the US, why didn't they blow up Nordstream I when they were blowing up Nordstream II?

The reason Russia would want to blow up Nordstream II is *deep breath*
The sanctions on gas products from Russia are not uniform, and Nord Steam I, being the old pipeline, has decades old agreements for delivery largely immune from sanctions being these were negotiated in the 90s. NS2 is - planning asside - all post 2014 and open for full sanctions, though some deliveries on NS2 were immune from sanctions. The idea being that non-sanctioned NS2 deliveries now transit NS1, which allows Russia to try to ramrod delivers that should be sanctioned over NS1 and then Hope and Pay-off that administrative snafus will keep that information from getting out.



This; the home guard feared saboteur hit-and-run fuck-fuck games like Britain was doing in Norway (and greece), but Germany lacked the naval resources to support even smash-and-grabs like that and Germany Naval Command feared losing ships a pitched battle. The concern was more that if Germany figured out a way to pull that sort of thing off, they were woefully unprepared, and if germany could land and supply an invasion, the ground forces on Isle were boned.

It's refreshing when a doublenigger like yourself joins the thread and parrots every single US propaganda talking point like it's the gods honest truth, saves me having to watch CNN.
Now go water your lawn...it's a shambles.

 

[Napoleon Bonerfart]

Btw, Zelensky has issued Martial Law, you realize that? Are you gonna shit on him too?

Ukraine had to out of desperation.

Surely the vatniggers are doing so well that the vatnigger king isn’t desperate.

 

[Ghostse]

They could have also just closed the pipeline, and if needed cite some unspecified damage. Even WaPo was forced to admit there is very little to no evidence that Russia was involved, and more and more European officials are starting to agree (though, of course, that doesn't really mean anything)

They had already tried that, and Germany was getting sick of their shit even before Ukraine happened.

2021 - a year of German hypocrisy and problems for Nord Stream 2 - BiznesAlert EN

The completion of Nord Stream 2 is becoming less likely. However, there is nothing to suggest that the project has lost Berlin’s support – Mariusz Marszałkowski, editor at BiznesAlert.pl, writes. These actions do not go with the declaration of solidarity and instead reveal the hypocrisy of...

biznesalert.com

Oh and you're right, I forgot about the part where even if Nord Stream II was sanctioned fucked, Russia was still obligated to keep it operational. They tried to blame it on parts being held up by sanctions and every other trick in the book; now a nice little explosion has allowed them to deflect responsibility and push off their obligations.

 

[Pork Packer]

Btw, Zelensky has issued Martial Law, you realize that? Are you gonna shit on him too?

Well there's something of a difference between a poor as fuck and massively outnumbered/outgunned country being invaded on three sides declaring martial law, and an alleged superpower with the 2nd stronkest military on the planet (but 1st stronkest rly because burger military full of trannies n sheeit) which is doing the invading declaring martial law 11 months after they had assured themselves and the world at large they has basically already won

I mean, nobody really gave Saddam shit for declaring martial law during the opening stage of gulf war 2 but if Murica did this 11 months after strategically feinting away from Baghdad, Basra, and Mosul to name a few and losing more men than Vietnam and Korea combined in that time among other things, then the US would be the subject of a fairly significant amount of mockery

Go read the fucking article. They don't mention that at all. An invasion would be risky as the Home Fleet would have blown through the invasion fleet like a blow torch. Even in the wargames that were undertaken massive parameters had to be adjusted to give the Germans a chance.

The British were worried, but the Germans didn't have the logistical ability to land during a contested battle.

Furthermore, Germany's fuel reserves had already been blown out in large part due to the armor and airpower heavy invasions of Poland, France, and the rest of occupied Europe, and pissing away a huge amount of what remained in an extremely dubious at best attempt to establish a beachhead in the UK would have meant effectively writing off an invasion of russia which was the single biggest and most overriding objective Hitler had, and gambling that doing so would one way or another induce the UK to cease the Royal Navy blockade of german occupied europe (which was starving it of both fuel and other vital resources)

And thats before you take into account how much logistical prep work germany would have had to do to make an invasion work, which can best be summed up by looking at the batshit insane amount of prep the UK and USA had to do for D-Day and imaging them doing that with a massively smaller and less capable navy than their adversaries, and without the endless fuel and resource well they effectively had in reserve

The fundamental problems Germany had with the UK in the first half of WW2 is that the Royal Navy pulling its traditional continental blockade gameplan meant that Germany had a limited time window to fulfil its main objectives (i.e. conquering and consolidating Ukraine for food, the caucuses for oil, and north-west russia for security and bragging rights enough to make any blockade redundant) before grinding to an economic halt and becoming militarily impotent due to running out of resources, and the existence of the UK as a hostile and halfway capable military power able to project power by air/funding resistance movements in the case of mainland europe or by boots on ground in north africa and the middle east meant that Germany always had to spread its forces over a whole continent and was never able to muster its full strength when attacking the USSR to begin with.

When you combine this with how much of a nightmare shitshow even trying to organise and prepare for a full on invasion of an island which had both air superiority and overwhelming naval superiority, it makes perfect sense why Hitler and co were so fixated before and even during the war of getting Britain to either declare neutrality or straight up ally with Germany, and why operation sealion was decidedly shitcanned by all involved at the earliest convenience in favor of just gambling on the USSR collapsing fast when invaded and hoping the UK would throw in the towel before germany got terminally bogged down.

A side note is that its extremely likely that the "hope the UK allies with us/doesnt align against us/doesnt join the war against us/doesnt fight in the war against us/doesnt keep fighting in the war against us/agrees to a no-harm-no-foul armistice to end the war against us" hopes Hitler had were due in large part to the work of Ribbentrop in aggressively feeding him hopium over how bongland's sekrit aristocrat overlords (i.e. literal autists, schizos, and grifters he latched on to in the UK who had zero political power) all loved Germany and were working to create an alliance behind the scenes and how the imminent civil war to restore Edward VIII to the throne (who as absolute monarch would be able to singlehandedly force the UK into alignment with germany) meant they would be far too busy to oppose germany in europe.

Funny how the whole "dictators listening to yes-men feeding them everything they want to hear and having zero back up plan for when shit doesnt go as they said" tradition continues to this day...

 

[Overly Serious]

If it was the US, why didn't they blow up Nordstream I when they were blowing up Nordstream II?

Both Nordstream 1 and 2 were damaged and both targeted. Covertly demolishing pipelines made of 4cm thick steel layered 11cm thick concrete on the sea bed is rather an imprecise science you know. The suggestion that Russia would throw away one of its largest and most effective inducements for Germany to negotiate in favour of some nebulous PR claims that wouldn't be accepted by pro-US Westerners anyway is and remains one of the most absurd claims by the pro-US faction in this whole war.

And in case you have some insane idea that NS1 was accidentally caught in the blast or some stupidity, it was targetted deliberately in two places about 6km apart.

So your "if it was the US why didn't they blow up NS1" question - well, there was an attempt to do exactly that which did indeed successfully cause damage to NS1.

It might have been the US. It might have been the Poles. It might have been the UK and could even have been the French (maybe). But it most certainly not the Russians. "Mr. Putin. Would you like a powerful trillion dollar incentive for Germany to want to end sanctions and negotiate peace... or would you prefer to blow up a decade of our own work under our enemies noses whilst their ships are in the area and then try to convince NATO that they did it themselves?"

People can root for any side they wish or neither, but claiming Russia blew up NS2 is stupidity. The USA has been trying to stop this pipeline since its inception and have said publicly they would do so one way or another. It's massively in their interests, it's in their capabilities, and lets be blunt - it's in their moral standards. Someone on the NATO side did it which is why it's dropped like a hot coal from our media, the Russians have been refused permission to send their own inspectors (when it was a joint project they're experts in) and investigations of the explosion seem to have wrapped up suspiciously quickly.

It's like US troops in Ukraine. Everybody knows they're there. People (even the Russians so far) aren't saying so because of the consequence that they'd then have to respond.

 

[Butterschmalz]

And then sell their Eurosian whore sister to me to fuck in all 3 holes for $4.99

If I weren't married I'd have thought about learning it and running off to join Azov, but then again I speak Arabic very well but ended up choosing a life of luxury over going to fight with the Lions of Rojava against ISIS.

Congrats for being married bro. I d really like to meet the lucky one!

 

[Useful_Mistake]

Oh and you're right, I forgot about the part where even if Nord Stream II was sanctioned fucked, Russia was still obligated to keep it operational. They tried to blame parts being held up sanctions and every trick in the book, a nice little explosion has allowed them to deflect responsibility and push off their oligations.

Yeah, I'm going to be honest, I think Russia would rather deny its obligations, then bomb the pipeline. That being said, thank you. That's one of the only reasonable explanations I have heard on the issue.

 

[AgendaPoster]

First, I don't trust that article nor the Ukrainian politician that is alleging there will be martial law and border closing in Russia and Belarus. Both sides have made up shit to a ridiculous degree, and lies just end up ignored and lost in the endless flow of new drama, so there's no accountability of any sort.
These sort of statements are designed to create chaos in the enemy lands and diminish faith in the central authority. They might be true, might come from espionage, might be disinfo, propaganda, who knows. We'll see later in January.
But if it happens, I'd still not celebrate, as Ukraine will have to deal with even more cannon fodder, and Ukraine cannot endlessly replenish its soldiers and equipment. Also I get the feeling, from images mostly, that Ukraine actually has good geared soldiers and seems to put a price on high morale, training and every soul. Russia just does some of that and it's off to battle, grinds enemies down throwing more and more hostile human biomass at them.
As for Ukraine having martial law, well, d'oh?!? It's invaded, its cities bombarded, so chaos, looting etc. could always start.
But worse, Ukraine is having a sizable population of Russian, a deeply hostile minority, so it's basically an infiltrated country, and needs to root these people out and preventing them from sending info to the Russian Army/Intelligence, preventing from sabotaging infrastructure and more. Ukraine NEEDS martial law, be happy it didn't inter all Russians like the US did with the Japanese, as that would be the reasonable solution.