Russian Invasion of Ukraine Megathread - Episode III - Revenge of the Ruski (now unlocked with new skins and gameplay modes!!!)

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

The Bradley Fighting Vehicle = F-35 of The 80's. Over priced government pork POS. its not a gift its a curse

there was a funny movie on it called the Pentagon Wars.
The Pentagon Wars

The film itself admits the Bradley turned into a good vehicle after it's extremely rocky development.

A postscript explains that the Bradley was extensively redesigned in response to Burton's demands, which significantly reduced casualties from its use during the Persian Gulf War. However, the system was too strong: Partridge and his cronies earned their promotions and lucrative private sector jobs, while Colonel Burton was forced to retire.

 

[Pork Packer]

*least schizoid russia simp*

The hard work starts now. Welcome to the New Great Game on crack, Pepe Escobar writes.

2023 starts with collective NATO in Absolutely Freak Out Mode as Russian Defense Minister Shoigu announces that Russian Navy frigate Admiral Gorshkov is now on tour – complete with a set of Mr. Zircon’s hypersonic business cards.

The business tour will encompass the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean, and of course include the Mediterranean, the Roman Empire’s former Mare Nostrum. Mr. Zircon on the prowl has absolutely nothing to do with the war in Ukraine: it’s a sign of what happens next when it comes to frying much bigger fishes than a bunch of Kiev psychos.

The end of 2022 did seal the frying of the Big Ukraine Negotiation Fish. It has now been served on a hot plate – and fully digested. Moscow has made it painfully clear there’s no reason whatsoever to trust the “non-agreement capable” declining superpower.

So even taxi drivers in Dacca are now betting on when the much- vaunted “winter offensive” starts, and how far will it go. General Armageddon’s path ahead is clear: all-out demilitarization and de-electrification on steroids, complete with grinding up masses of Ukrainians at the lowest possible cost to the Russian Armed Forces in Donbass until Kiev psychos beg for mercy. Or not.

Another big fried fish on a hot plate at the end of 2022 was the 2014 Minsk Agreement. The cook was no other than former chancellor Merkel (“an attempt to buy time for Ukraine”). Implied is the not exactly smokin’ gun: the strategy of the Straussian/neo-con and neoliberal-con combo in charge of U.S. foreign policy, from the beginning, was to unleash a Forever War, by proxy, against Russia.

Merkel may have been up to something telling the Russians, in their face, that she lied like crypto-Soprano Mike Pompeo, then she lied again and again, for years. That’s not embarrassing for Moscow, but for Berlin: yet another graphic demonstration of total vassalage to the Empire.

The response by the contemporary embodiment of Mercury, Russian Foreign Ministry’s Maria Zakharova, was equally intriguing: Merkel’s confession could be used as a specific reason – and evidence – for a tribunal judging Western politicians responsible for provoking the Russia-Ukraine proxy war.

No one will obviously confirm it on the record. But all this could be part of an evolving, secret Russia-Germany deal in the making, leading to Germany restoring at least some of its sovereignty.

Time to fry NATO fish

Meanwhile, deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev, visibly relishing his totally unplugged incarnation, expanded on the Fried Negotiation Fish saga. “Last warning to all nations”, as he framed it: “there can be no business with the Anglo-Saxon world [because] it is a thief, a swindler, a card-sharp that could do anything… From now on we will do without them until a new generation of sensible politicians comes to power… There is nobody in the West we could deal with about anything for any reason.”

Medvedev, significantly, recited more or less the same script, in person, to Xi Jinping in Beijing, days before the zoom to end all zooms – between Xi and Putin – that worked as a sort of informal closure of 2022, with the Russia-China strategic partnership perfectly in synch.

On the war front, General Armageddon’s new – offensive – groove is bound to lead in the next few months to an undisputable fact on the ground: a partition between a dysfunctional black hole or rump Ukraine on the west, and Novorossiya in the east.

Even the IMF is now reluctant to throw extra funds into the black hole. Kiev’s 2023 budget has an – unrealistic – $36 billion deficit. Half of the budget is military-related. The real deficit in 2022 was running at about $5 billion a month – and will inevitably balloon.

Tymofiy Mylovanov, a professor at the Kiev School of Economics, came up with a howler: the IMF is worried about Ukraine’s “debt sustainability”. He added, “if even the IMF is worried, imagine what private investors are thinking”. There will be no “investment” in rump Ukraine. Multinational vultures will grab land for nothing and whatever puny productive assets may remain.

Arguably the biggest fish to be fried in 2023 is the myth of NATO. Every serious military analyst, few Americans included, knows that the Russian Army and military industrial complex represents a superior system than what existed at the end of the U.S.SR, and far superior to that of the U.S. and the rest of NATO today.

The Mackinder-style final blow to a possible alliance between Germany (EU), Russia and China – which is what is really behind the U.S. proxy war in Ukraine – is not proceeding according to the Straussian wet dream.

Saddam Hussein, former imperial vassal, was regime-changed because he wanted to bypass the petrodollar. Now we have the inevitable rise of the petroyuan – “in three to five years”, as Xi Jinping announced in Riyadh: you just can’t prevent it with Shock’n Awe on Beijing.

In 2008, Russia embarked on a massive rebuilding of missile forces and a 14-year plan to modernize land-based armed forces. Mr. Zircon presenting his hypersonic business card across the Mare Nostrum is just a small part of the Big Picture.

The myth of U.S. power

The CIA abandoned Afghanistan in a humiliating retreat – even ditching the heroin ratline – just to relocate to Ukraine and continue playing the same old broken records. The CIA is behind the ongoing sabotage of Russian infrastructure – in tandem with MI6 and others. Sooner or later there will be blowback.

Few people – including CIA operatives – may know that New York City, for instance, may be destroyed with a single move: blowing up the George Washington bridge. The city can’t be supplied with food and most of its requirements without the bridge. The New York City electrical grid can be destroyed by knocking out the central controls; putting it back together could take a year.

Even trespassed by infinite layers of fog of war, the current situation in Ukraine is still a skirmish. The real war has not even started yet. It might – soon.

Apart from Ukraine and Poland there is no NATO force worth mentioning. Germany has a risible two-day supply of ammunition. Turkey will not send a single soldier to fight Russians in Ukraine.

Out of 80,000 U.S. troops stationed in Europe, only 10% are weaponized. Recently 20,000 were added, not a big deal. If the Americans activated their troops in Europe – something rather ridiculous in itself – they would not have any place to land supplies or reinforcements. All airports and seaports would be destroyed by Russian hypersonic missiles in a matter of minutes – in continental Europe as well as the UK.

In addition, all fuel centers such as Rotterdam for oil and natural gas would be destroyed, as well as all military installations, including top American bases in Europe: Grafenwoehr, Hohenfels, Ramstein, Baumholder, Vilseck, Spangdahlem, and Wiesbaden in Germany (for the Army and Air Force); Aviano Air Base in Italy; Lajes Air Base in Portugal’s Azores islands; Naval Station Rota in Spain; Incirlik Air Base in Turkey; and Royal Air Force stations Lakenheath and Mildenhall in the UK.

All fighter jets and bombers would be destroyed – after they land or while landed: there would be no place to land except on the autobahn, where they would be sitting ducks.

Patriot missiles are worthless – as the whole Global South saw in Saudi Arabia when they tried to knock out Houthi missiles coming from Yemen. Israel’s Iron Dome can’t even knock out all primitive missiles coming from Gaza.

U.S. military power is the supreme myth of the fish to be fried variety. Essentially, they hide behind proxies – as the Ukraine Armed Forces. U.S. forces are worthless except in turkey shoots as in Iraq in 1991 and 2003, against a disabled opponent in the middle of the desert with no air cover. And never forget how NATO was completely humiliated by the Taliban.

The final breaking point

2022 ended an era: the final breaking point of the “rules-based international order” established after the fall of the U.S.S.R.

The Empire entered Desperation Row, throwing everything and the kitchen sink – proxy war on Ukraine, AUKUS, Taiwan hysteria – to dismantle the set-up they created way back in 1991.

Globalization’s rollback is being implemented by the Empire itself. That ranges from stealing the EU energy market from Russia so the hapless vassals buy ultra-expensive U.S. energy to smashing the entire semiconductor supply chain, forcibly rebuilding it around itself to “isolate” China.

The NATO vs. Russia war in Ukraine is just a cog in the wheel of the New Great Game. For the Global South, what really matters is how Eurasia – and beyond – are coordinating their integration process, from BRI to the BRICS+ expansion, from the SCO to the INSTC, from Opec+ to the Greater Eurasia Partnership.

We’re back to what the world looked like in 1914, or before 1939, only in a limited sense. There’s a plethora of nations struggling to expand their influence, but all of them are betting on multipolarity, or “peaceful modernization”, as Xi Jinping coined it, and not Forever Wars: China, Russia, India, Iran, Indonesia and others.

So bye bye 1991-2022. The hard work starts now. Welcome to the New Great Game on crack.

I know this is something of an autistic hobby but ever since the start of this joke of a war I have been keeping tabs on various self proclaimed "dissident voices" or "respected analysts" (aka bloggers too dysfunctional or with too many skeletons in the closet to find work in any segment of mainstream or popular or even anti establishment media and low level institutional goons kicked out for aggressive autism IRL) who were the loudest and most insistent voices behind the oft joked about "3 days conquest of Ukraine" notion, and since then have been making weekly and in some cases daily double-downs over how russia is 10000% going to reveal its glorious 5d checkmate any day now and effortlessly vore ukraine and form a glorious new world order that the weak and decayed west cannot hope to stand against.

Pepe Escobar has been along with Scott "Literal and certified pedophile" Ritter, various communist LARPers like max blumenthal and the speds at the greyzone, and a smattering of other embittered cold war era dinosaurs been one of the most prolific of these specimens i have seen in the wild, and a year after confidently predicting russia was far too smart to invade, before pivoting to gushing over the genius of said invasion and how within days there would be total russian victory that would be studied for centuries as the pinnacle of warfare, Here almost a year of identically smug and certain predictions and prognostications being shat out monthly, each with more cringe hyperbole and straight-up-autistic purple prose than the last, comes a near identical set of triumphalist bullshit.

It truly has it all, obsequious word vomit over the infinite intelligence and competence of every member of the russian government and military apparatus, open cooming over unstoppable russian wunderwaffe that will destroy all of NATO's military within mere minutes, sneering over how pathetic and powerless and weak the US military is and how effortless it would be for the far superior russian military to annihilate it, frantically confident predictions of an imminent russo-german axis that will dominate eurasia and muh BRICs and muh petroyuan effortlessly removing the US and the west in general from global relevance, and ofcourse, hysterically giggling over how billions of ukrainians will suffer and die as russia REALLY starts to fight for realzies this time (all the other times they REALLY started to fight were strategic feints ofcourse) and how muh general armageddon waifu will effortlessly defeat Ukraine and forcibly partition it in just a few more months

It really is rather remarkable how identical the talking points of these retards are the moment you factor out individual styles and autistic hangups, and aside from my own personal tism the reason I am posting about it is to note the terminal flaw I keep on seeing with just about every single professional russia simp in the "alternate" media circuit, which ironically is also one shared with russia itself.

The total inability to adapt to new information and new realities

Here we are, nearly a year after all their predictions of a) no russian invasion, and b) a swift and decisive russian victory in said invasion, went up in smoke, and they are still shidding and farding out the exact same rhetoric and prognostications that they were back then, and that they have repeated with the exact same confidence literally every month since then, with zero attempt to explain why they were wrong before and why they will not be wrong yet again.

Say what you like about westoid media with muh ghost of kyiv and russia only having enough ammo for 14 days and whatnot, but once that shit was proven to be fake by reality, they fucking moved on. Sure there is still a fuckload of sensationalist bullshit about anything and everything in this war by the usual clickbait suspects, but as that shit gets proven wrong/irrelevent/a misunderstanding it gets phased out the conversation. Pro Ukrainian sources are not now beating the drum about the ghost of kyiv's imminent bombing raid of the kremlin or how plucky reddit volunteers are mowing down spetzsnaz by the thousand.

But hey, I would be lying if I said I did not appreciate these retards for providing me with my daily ration of schadenfreude as they try to spin russia's weekly/monthly humiliation as totally being a stroke of military genious by putin, so I cant exactly complain

 

[BaldAndMorallyBankrupt]

Source: Cav Scout who was an M2 gunner in Iraq I & II

The 25mm will do jack shit against tanks, but it will utterly wreck any infantry's day just demolishing anything they are hiding behind, and doing it at range. They were wasting republican guard before they even got in RPG range, not that the RPGs would have done anything.
Night vision & Infrared means you can watch your adversary creep around at night and let him feel like he's being clever before turning him into a fine red mist.
Never got to fire any TOWs in anger, something he expressed regret about.

Granted not an apples to apples thing, and no M1s supporting as you said.



Fucking ouch.





Again, my guess is AMX10RCs will be used for fall 2023 offensive thunder-runs.

And a wheeled Tank Destroyer is pretty much exactly what it iis.
All I can think of when I saw they were sending AMX10RCs was stories on History Channel documentaries talking about the Hellcat getting grossly miss used and crews being killed senselessly because generals didn't grasp Tank destroyer != Tank. And if they aren't being earmarked and crews trained for rapid assaults, I'm pretty sure history will be repeating there.

Most if not all of Russias infantry units operate with BMPs, BMDs or BTRs, most of those run around with Kornets and 30mm auto cannons. Whoever ends up operating those things would need to get really lucky to catch an infantry unit without armor support, and that's once they get in position, before that they need to contend with conventional artillery, rocket artillery, helicopters, attack drones, surveillance drones, and suicide drones. All of which could really quickly fuck up that crews day.

Also, stop using "Tank Destroyers" as if it's still a tank class and stop using "Thunder Runs" as if it's an actual tactic.

Tank destroyers existed in early world war 2 because your a average tank legitimately did not have the armament to kill an enemy tank if it encountered it. This changed very quickly. What they are, is fire support vehicles used specifically to provide direct fire against really light enemy vehicles or enemy emplacements to support the infantry . That's why most of them use the 105mm instead of the 120mm which would be what you'd go with if you wanted to optimize the thing to kill tanks.

Thunder Runs are also not a legitimate tactic. It was a somewhat irresponsible operation during the very end of Iraq that was later dubbed as "The Thunder Run" in an attempt to make parallels to the German blitzkrieg even though those parallels don't really exist. If Ukraine tried to do anything even similar to that they'd get the absolute shit blown out of that armored column.

 

[Pork Packer]

The film itself admits the Bradley turned into a good vehicle after it's extremely rocky development.

The film had to be straight up fictionalised, since making it realistic would have resulted in several hours of watching a bitter "tech bad" autist pester overly patient and polite pentagon officials to stress test a hundred bradleys to destruction in order to prove they could not infact resist anti-tank rounds.....and ignoring every single time he was told they were not infact designed to resist anti tank rounds because they were not fucking tanks, and then after finally being told to get the fuck out of the proverbial/literal office he wrote a furious copefic about how he was totally right and stuff.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

@Spud Stacker
Too long to reply but it's interesting to see how much circlejerk the hypersonic missile shit gets. Sure, Russia is the only country at the moment with hypersonic missiles that are in service at the moment, but that moment won't last long.

Let's assume hypersonic missiles are as game changing as these guys like to flout and I do agree they are game changers, in a few years Russia's hypersonic missiles won't be special anymore. A good historical example would be the HMS Dreadnought which was launched in 1906, it becomes revolutionary to the point any Battleship built after her is referred as a "Dreadnought" for years to come, but of course you got countries like the US, France, and Germany who see HMS Dreadnought and copy her design elements, and by the end of the 1900s decade there's multiple "Dreadnoughts" that are more advanced than HMS Dreadnought, and by the time WW1 breaks out there's dozens of them.

Point is no big military technological advantage lasts for very long, and while these guys are acting like it will take the US years and years to match this, I'll be surprised if a US hypersonic missile isn't in service within 3 years.

 

[Fatniggo1488]

Most if not all of Russias infantry units operate with BMPs, BMDs or BTRs, most of those run around with Kornets and 30mm auto cannons. Whoever ends up operating those things would need to get really lucky to catch an infantry unit without armor support, and that's once they get in position, before that they need to contend with conventional artillery, rocket artillery, helicopters, attack drones, surveillance drones, and suicide drones. All of which could really quickly fuck up that crews day.

Also, stop using "Tank Destroyers" as if it's still a tank class and stop using "Thunder Runs" as if it's an actual tactic.

Tank destroyers existed in early world war 2 because your a average tank legitimately did not have the armament to kill an enemy tank if it encountered it. This changed very quickly. What they are, is fire support vehicles used specifically to provide direct fire against really light enemy vehicles or enemy emplacements to support the infantry . That's why most of them use the 105mm instead of the 120mm which would be what you'd go with if you wanted to optimize the thing to kill tanks.

Thunder Runs are also not a legitimate tactic. It was a somewhat irresponsible operation during the very end of Iraq that was later dubbed as "The Thunder Run" in an attempt to make parallels to the German blitzkrieg even though those parallels don't really exist. If Ukraine tried to do anything even similar to that they'd get the absolute shit blown out of that armored column.

The thing was literally built to be the US equivalent to the BMP. I don't know why people are trying to act like it's going to be that much different from what both sides are already using. About the only real interesting things which could come into play which are unknows are

1: Will the optics on it be a major game changer like it was in the Iraq war since it will be going up against Russian vehicles which have similar devices this time around
2: Will the decision to go with the smaller 25mm cannon for the sake of more ammo be a good or bad thing Edit: in Iraq, most kills Bradley's scored were with the tow missile, not the cannons and this was largely because of point 1
3: Will it being a high profile design turn out to be a problem like a lot of people suggested it would in a conventional war context

Personally, I kind of suspect the thing is not going to see a lot of combat for logistical reasons. The US actually has had issues with this very thing in the past and one would think that would be more of an issue here that it was in those instances.

 

[BaldAndMorallyBankrupt]

The thing was literally built to be the US equivalent to the BMP. I don't know why people are trying to act like it's going to be that much different from what both sides are already using. About the only real interesting things which could come into play which are unknows are

1: Will the optics on be a major game changer like it was in the Iraq war since it will be going up against Russian vehicles which have similar devices this time around
2: Will the decision to go with the smaller 25mm cannon for the sake of more ammo be a good or bad thing
3: Will it being a high profile design turn out to be a problem like a lot of people suggested it would in a conventional war context

Personally, I kind of suspect the thing is not going to see a lot of combat for logistical reasons. The US actually has had issues with this very thing in the past and one would think that would be more of an issue here that it was in those instances.

That's my point. The Bradley isn't going to overmatch anything when fighting the russians, not to mention that much like the BMP it was designed to fight infantry and emplacements, not so much other vehicles, not even other IFVs really. The ATGM pods were added because "Well the Russians put ATGMs on their IFVs" and the russians put the ATGMs more so a self defense mechanism than anything else. Something to at the very least disable and enemy tank or two before running away.

I don't even think the optics are going to be that big a deal to be honest, correct me if i'm wrong but the M2 uses Gen1s while a good chunk of Russian vehicles run Gen 2s and even some Gen3s

 

[Fatniggo1488]

That's my point. The Bradley isn't going to overmatch anything when fighting the russians, not to mention that much like the BMP it was designed to fight infantry and emplacements, not so much other vehicles, not even other IFVs really. The ATGM pods were added because "Well the Russians put ATGMs on their IFVs" and the russians put the ATGMs more so a self defense mechanism than anything else. Something to at the very least disable and enemy tank or two before running away.

I don't even think the optics are going to be that big a deal to be honest, correct me if i'm wrong but the M2 uses Gen1s while a good chunk of Russian vehicles run Gen 2s and even some Gen3s

It's going to depend on what they actually send over. Some of them have Gen3s, but that's the minority of them. I'm going to suspect they'll all have Gen1s, and my reason for thinking that is because the last batch of MRAPs that got sent had absolutely no crow systems on them and from I could see from some of the pictures, no CREW systems and no BFTs. I think while they're not willing to admit it, they know Ukraine is selling a lot of this hardware on the black market.

 

[Pork Packer]

@Spud Stacker
Too long to reply but it's interesting to see how much circlejerk the hypersonic missile shit gets. Sure, Russia is the only country at the moment with hypersonic missiles that are in service at the moment, but that moment won't last long.

Let's assume hypersonic missiles are as game changing as these guys like to flout and I do agree they are game changers, in a few years Russia's hypersonic missiles won't be special anymore. A good historical example would be the HMS Dreadnought which was launched in 1906, it becomes revolutionary to the point any Battleship built after her is referred as a "Dreadnought" for years to come, but of course you got countries like the US, France, and Germany who see HMS Dreadnought and copy her design elements, and by the end of the 1900s decade there's multiple "Dreadnoughts" that are more advanced than HMS Dreadnought, and by the time WW1 breaks out there's dozens of them.

Point is no big military technological advantage lasts for very long, and while these guys are acting like it will take the US years and years to match this, I'll be surprised if a US hypersonic missile isn't in service within 3 years.

Russia has a long history of touting its "best of its class in the world" wonder weapons that are only "best of their class" because nobody else on the planet is bothering to waste any significant resource in making them.

This is why you see so many soviet military megaprojects that were used solely as bragging props but which were utterly useless in any practical sense, or at best insanely inefficient compared to much cheaper, more reliable, and more mundane alternatives, and were thus never used in actual combat.

In the case of hypersonic missiles, the moment you get past the detail-free hype and into the *alleged* capabilities of the weapon you find shit that the US and NATO have had since the fucking 80s and in some cases the 60s. IIRC the main "hype" factor of these new ones russia says it has is that it can *theoretically* hit mach 9 upon which it is *theoretically* almost impossible for missile defences to shoot down, which becomes moot the moment you factor in....

a) the fact these are so few in number and so costly to produce that in any conventional conflict they are going to either run out on day 1 or be hoarded as some last resort shit​

b) the fact that if they are used as nuclear delivery missiles than all they might do is potentially adjust the series of events of mutual nuclear annihilation​

c) this is RUSSIA we are talking about here.....and thus any claims as to their weapons effectiveness compared to western tech needs to be treated with extreme scepticism​

​

TLDR: its rather silly to trust that a country which cant even deal with deploying normal fucking weapons due to cancerous levels of systematic corruption and figure-fudging, will magically build itself a world beating superweapon without the exact same systematic corruption and figure-fudging turning it into a proverbial/literal empty shell and some general's private island and waterpark.

 

[Aidan]

It's going to depend on what they actually send over. Some of them have Gen3s, but that's the minority of them. I'm going to suspect they'll all have Gen1s, and my reason for thinking that is because the last batch of MRAPs that got sent had absolutely no crow systems on them and from I could see from some of the pictures, no CREW systems and no BFTs. I think while they're not willing to admit it, they know Ukraine is selling a lot of this hardware on the black market.

I find it unlikely that the DoD will send the modern stuff to Ukrainians that they don't want in Russian hands. By corruption or capture some of the tech and gear is going to end up in Russia which has potential to help them and others immensely. One area Russia is particularly behind in is thermal and IR imaging and the US wants to keep it that way.
Personally, I think a lot of US gear is designed as part of a whole and Ukraine lacks the whole as well as the time to train guys up to use them properly so most of this stuff is going to just end up broken or destroyed relatively quickly and the Pentagon knows this.

You can however make reasonable assumptions about stock levels. The Pentagon I'm sure has the serial numbers of every missile Russia has produced (and I'm sure they have the same for the US) and with the magic of space probably knows within 100 miles where every one of them is.

Were you ever in the military or worked with the DoD? They lose serialized gear all the time and don't realize it for years. You think they can track foreign gear better than they can track their own?
I can tell you with absolute certainty that they can't and don't.

Give one good reason they'd want do that. *Mortars active nuke plant*

This didn't happen and amounts to Special Military Operation fuddlore by now. You've been lied to and are now propagating the lie.
You can see the "results" of the plant being "shelled" early on in the invasion, it was covered thoroughly in one of the prior threads. Even the staff who were allowed to leave and were later interviewed never mentioned Russian artillery hitting the plant or being fired from the plant, contrary to official Ukrainian MoD claims on Twitter.

 

[PrimeRadiant]

Again, my guess is AMX10RCs will be used for fall 2023 offensive thunder-runs.

There arent going to be any big thunder runs. unlike the fall situation, Russia has now literally ringed its entire contact area with three lines of trenches, pillboxes and dragons teeth.

 

[Butterschmalz]

Total Nigger Infestation

So what you re talking about is: You cant handle the niggers at home but somehow you can handle niggers overseas? Great. Already gave up on your home country along time ago havent you.

The economic return for bringing Ukraine into western spheres of influence will be far greater than the money spent.

You must be selling lottery tickets buddy. So ok when I buy one ticket for 50 bln what kind of "economic return" would that be? Talking in numbers. X5 X10 X100?

 

[Napoleon Bonerfart]

So what you re talking about is: You cant handle the niggers at home but somehow you can handle niggers overseas? Great. Already gave up on your home country along time ago havent you.


You must be selling lottery tickets buddy. So ok when I buy one ticket for 50 bln what kind of "economic return" would that be? Talking in numbers. X5 X10 X100?

Over a ten-year period, trillions.

 

[习近平新时代中国特色社会主义思想]

@Spud Stacker
Too long to reply but it's interesting to see how much circlejerk the hypersonic missile shit gets. Sure, Russia is the only country at the moment with hypersonic missiles that are in service at the moment, but that moment won't last long.

Let's assume hypersonic missiles are as game changing as these guys like to flout and I do agree they are game changers, in a few years Russia's hypersonic missiles won't be special anymore. A good historical example would be the HMS Dreadnought which was launched in 1906, it becomes revolutionary to the point any Battleship built after her is referred as a "Dreadnought" for years to come, but of course you got countries like the US, France, and Germany who see HMS Dreadnought and copy her design elements, and by the end of the 1900s decade there's multiple "Dreadnoughts" that are more advanced than HMS Dreadnought, and by the time WW1 breaks out there's dozens of them.

Point is no big military technological advantage lasts for very long, and while these guys are acting like it will take the US years and years to match this, I'll be surprised if a US hypersonic missile isn't in service within 3 years.

Smokeless powder is another classic example, with the decisions the French made in cartridge development for the sake of bringing it into use as quickly as possible hobbling them in the long run.

 

[The Punished Mitch]

So what you re talking about is: You cant handle the niggers at home but somehow you can handle niggers overseas? Great. Already gave up on your home country along time ago havent you.


You must be selling lottery tickets buddy. So ok when I buy one ticket for 50 bln what kind of "economic return" would that be? Talking in numbers. X5 X10 X100?

Handling niggers is easy, unfortunately modern politicians have neither the desire nor the stomach to commit overt genocide.

 

[Pork Packer]

Over a ten-year period, trillions.

Not including the added perk of buck breaking russia and the likely economic returns on milking the corpse for everything it has in a way that makes the 90s look like the Marshall Plan

Also not including the domino effect of various russia dependent states in eurasia losing their main military backer and thus becoming far less willing and able to screw US interests over in their backyard.

Also not including chiyna permanently loosing its main meatshield/distraction for the west and thus making it more likely they will stop acting so obnoxiously retarded in the west's direction

I mean....twisting the knife in russia is literally the single most opportune geostrategic move imaginable for burgerland and the west, which makes it all the more absurd russia didnt even consider the possibility its adversaries would do so despite russia giving them literally every imaginable reason to do so for a goddamn century

 

[Ghostse]

Most if not all of Russias infantry units operate with BMPs, BMDs or BTRs, most of those run around with Kornets and 30mm auto cannons. Whoever ends up operating those things would need to get really lucky to catch an infantry unit without armor support, and that's once they get in position, before that they need to contend with conventional artillery, rocket artillery, helicopters, attack drones, surveillance drones, and suicide drones. All of which could really quickly fuck up that crews day.

Bradleys armor is design to defeat 30mm AP & smaller, meaning if they do encounter BMP's they only need to worry about the ones with big guns and missiles. Bradleys also have reactive armor, so unless they are trying to turret-shot with modern ATGM guns won't stop them.
I believe the Bushmaster can engage the BMPs outside of the range the BMPs can do anything effective back, and that'd be before we factor in Russian gun barrel maintenance.

Per my guy, In Iraq II they would see the Iraqis, the Iraqis would see them rotate their turrets on their positions and wouldn't react because from that distance there's no way they are going to be able to OH FUCK OH FUCK THEY ACTUALLY ARE CLOSE ENOUGH TO SHOOT US FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.


OTOH, that's American crews with american-maintained optics against Iraqis.
The Bradley is great at fucking up infantry at range, but it is not a MBT or - despite the ability to launch missiles - any sort of anti-armor except for very thin-hulled vehicles. Its a recon vehicle.
I don't think the Bushmaster is going to do much unless its a museum-grade BMP-1 since I doubt the Ukrainians will be getting DU rounds for them.

I'm also very curious as to how they're going to feed the beasts. While the engines will run anything that burns, they don't like anything that isn't JP-8 and Slav vehicle maintenance...

Not a wunderwaffen by any stretch.
Again, the real question is what this'll do the Ukrainian logistics chain - OTOH, this might be a walk-before-run for getting Ukraine's quartmasters ready for Abrams.

(Not that I think even if you magicked up a logistics network Abrams is going to be a wunderwaffen. Its a great tank, but not the end-all, be-all, especially without american-level support and against current-gen ATGMs. But its a tank, and what Ukraine is hurting for, even with all the Russian donations.)

Also, stop using "Tank Destroyers" as if it's still a tank class and stop using "Thunder Runs" as if it's an actual tactic.

Tank destroyers existed in early world war 2 because your a average tank legitimately did not have the armament to kill an enemy tank if it encountered it. This changed very quickly. What they are, is fire support vehicles used specifically to provide direct fire against really light enemy vehicles or enemy emplacements to support the infantry . That's why most of them use the 105mm instead of the 120mm which would be what you'd go with if you wanted to optimize the thing to kill tanks.

A tank destroyer is a glass cannon - big gun, high speed, shit armor, that hasn't changed. 105mm is sufficient to take out a T-72 - bigger is better, especially when your armor is barely good enough to resist small arms - and more than sufficient to take out T-62s.
Thought I guess when I say "tank destroyer" that really means more "BMP destoryer" which the 105 is more than enough to do.
until it runs out of French Moon Rounds,at least.

Thunder Runs are also not a legitimate tactic. It was a somewhat irresponsible operation during the very end of Iraq that was later dubbed as "The Thunder Run" in an attempt to make parallels to the German blitzkrieg even though those parallels don't really exist. If Ukraine tried to do anything even similar to that they'd get the absolute shit blown out of that armored column.

My nigger, they already did it it or did you somehow miss the might of the soviet armored fist melt back several dozen kilometers? They leveraged that by putting guys on trucks and hitting the Russian rear positions, getting commanders to panic and fall back even ahead of their main thrust. Frontline units were finding their reinforcements had pulled up stakes and left them high and dry.

Now, you want to question if Russia will fall for the same trick a second time with more soldiers in a smaller area... yeah that's a legit question, but I think the the tactic hits the general complete stymieing of any officer initiative, and lack of communication.
Though my assumption would be that's something Borscht & Gutski is trying to shake up; dunno if it'll bear fruit in time to matter.

Also the original thunder runs were where you'd use extra-armored tanks to sweep mines from a road. The name was applied to the Iraqi assaults - plural - that disrupted and demoralized the Iraqi defenders because it sounded cool

Just speculating a guess, but I would guess the plan for the AMX10s is either thunder-runs or fast-assault on an urban target, either Melitopol or Mariupol, and do to them in fall/late summer when the ground is firmer. Urban areas & firm ground will help alleviate the issues with using wheels.
That would be about the time they would be able to be transported and 8-10 months is just about enough time to do training to pull it off.

But no one has done anything expected this war Special Operation. Maybe they just use them as bunker busters till they break down or get turned into flaming hulks.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Wagner has been "in" Soledar the same way they have been "in" bakhmut for the past 8 weeks. The little zerglings run foreword across no man's land, take selfies for telegram and then either die or retreat. Further more, just a cursory glance at the map shows this insane push for that village as the desperation ploy it is. Soledar, strategically is not important. Even if it was fully occupied it means absolutely nothing for the ongoing fighting in Bakhmut because the M-3 does not pass through Soledar. It passes through Krasna Hora south of Soledar.

This is clearly an effort by Wagner to take SOMETHING even if that Something is even more useless then Bakhmut. Maybe they think they will be able to turn south from a breach at Soledar and turn the Ukrainian left flank. Which is wishful thinking at best. I don't see this push actually amounting to much more then hundreds more dead Russians. I bet big money what gains have been made have been due to Ukraine not expecting Russia to commit to a major offensive on a strategically unimportant map dot that even if they took would accomplish fuck all. Its a common mistake to make in a war where Politicians looking for "muh optics" give orders to field commanders.

 

[CaptainAutism69]

Wagner has been "in" Soledar the same way they have been "in" bakhmut for the past 8 weeks. The little zerglings run foreword across no man's land, take selfies for telegram and then either die or retreat. Further more, just a cursory glance at the map shows this insane push for that village as the desperation ploy it is. Soledar, strategically is not important. Even if it was fully occupied it means absolutely nothing for the ongoing fighting in Bakhmut because the M-3 does not pass through Soledar. It passes through Krasna Hora south of Soledar.

This is clearly an effort by Wagner to take SOMETHING even if that Something is even more useless then Bakhmut. Maybe they think they will be able to turn south from a breach at Soledar and turn the Ukrainian left flank. Which is wishful thinking at best. I don't see this push actually amounting to much more then hundreds more dead Russians. I bet big money what gains have been made have been due to Ukraine not expecting Russia to commit to a major offensive on a strategically unimportant map dot that even if they took would accomplish fuck all. Its a common mistake to make in a war where Politicians looking for "muh optics" give orders to field commanders.

aaaaaaaaaaand right on cue, here comes the (predictable) cope.
Ok sweetheart, if Soledar (and Bakhmut) are not important, then why have the hohols been throwing man after man into a meatginder defending something that's not important? They just hate their own countrymen?

 

[Napoleon Bonerfart]

aaaaaaaaaaand right on cue, here comes the (predictable) cope.
Ok sweetheart, if Soledar (and Bakhmut) are not important, then why have the hohols been throwing man after man into a meatginder defending something that's not important? They just hate their own countrymen?

Vatniggers held Soledar for less than 24 hours.

Bakhmut shouldn’t be important, but is is a great place to kill vatniggers.