Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

White Wolf was very left-leaning from the get-go, at least by the standards where having a gay character in a book was edgy. They've gone completely overboard in recent years, with writers being outed as literal child rapists and the company bending every which way to appease Twitter people. 7th Sea's recent edition similarly goes out of its way to toss the original's gameplay and replace it with "narrative storytelling" which has been widely panned. L5R has a new edition with a slightly weird system, but has not been wokified so far as I know, despite the Twitterati going after it for daring to be an Asian setting. Cthulhu has a 7th edition out a couple years ago, I dunno enough about it to have much of an opinion but I recall that Chaosium put in some restrictive license on it that riled people up, not sure about the details.

Thankfully there's nothing stopping you using older books, so go for it.
 
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robobobo said:
White Wolf was very left-leaning from the get-go, at least by the standards where having a gay character in a book was edgy. They've gone completely overboard in recent years, with writers being outed as literal child rapists and the company bending every which way to appease Twitter people. 7th Sea's recent edition similarly goes out of its way to toss the original's gameplay and replace it with "narrative storytelling" which has been widely panned. L5R has a new edition with a slightly weird system, but has not been wokified so far as I know, despite the Twitterati going after it for daring to be an Asian setting. Cthulhu has a 7th edition out a couple years ago, I dunno enough about it to have much of an opinion but I recall that Chaosium put in some restrictive license on it that riled people up, not sure about the details.

Thankfully there's nothing stopping you using older books, so go for it.
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I have fiddled with the latest L5R, I'm not thrilled by the ring posture system, seems to add complexity for complexity sake just to account for a few key situations.

But your last line is the key here. Thankfully TRPG don't have firmware or expiration dates and as long as your group aren't a bunch of bitches and you have some imagination, it can be endlessly expanded. Also means that even of a game is woke in the rulebook, as long as the system is good, you can remove and ignore all that shit without batting an eye.

It seems insane to me that they are trying to monetize imagination.
 
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ShitLurker said:
What? Do all have super cereal legal clamps as well? Or did they go woke as well? Because last I checked those 20 year old books still have the same text and nobody says my campaign has to use the newest iteration.
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Woke. @robobobo Covered most of it except Chaosium did license fuckery AND the company went woke even if the product isn't adnoxiously so. L5R went the same way if I remember.
I'm not 100%, I don't play the systems so I don't pay too close of attention to news about them.

And while @robobobo 's point is correct about older books is accurate:
First, There is nothing stopping you from applying that argument to this latest WotC fuckery though.
Second, those older books will start becoming unobtainium. Even QAGS, some wacky beer-and-pretzels labor of love autism someone posted about ITT now has a intro apologizing for being white & not a tranny.
Third, going along with that, You will eventually need to find new people to play with, and if the system you run has been wokeified, you're not going to like the people who show up to play.

Nothing stops you from playing what you want, but the pissing-your-pants-in-the-snow of Muh Tableism really irritates me.

Judge Dredd said:
No one read the comics. Though I remember a YouTube video talking about the recent comic output leaning heavily in a sci-fi direction.
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The comics IIRC were a little darker/gritter so theming for a SMC would be a little off if people were expecting the comics.
 
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robobobo said:
White Wolf was very left-leaning from the get-go, at least by the standards where having a gay character in a book was edgy. They've gone completely overboard in recent years, with writers being outed as literal child rapists and the company bending every which way to appease Twitter people. 7th Sea's recent edition similarly goes out of its way to toss the original's gameplay and replace it with "narrative storytelling" which has been widely panned. L5R has a new edition with a slightly weird system, but has not been wokified so far as I know, despite the Twitterati going after it for daring to be an Asian setting. Cthulhu has a 7th edition out a couple years ago, I dunno enough about it to have much of an opinion but I recall that Chaosium put in some restrictive license on it that riled people up, not sure about the details.

Thankfully there's nothing stopping you using older books, so go for it.
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"In my experience" (YMMV)

Normies and Noobs in THE hobby don't want to play older stuff. Unless the right Grognard/Newfag ratio is achieved.
 
Ghostse said:
Woke. @robobobo Covered most of it except Chaosium did license fuckery AND the company went woke even if the product isn't adnoxiously so. L5R went the same way if I remember.
I'm not 100%, I don't play the systems so I don't pay too close of attention to news about them.

And while @robobobo 's point is correct about older books is accurate:
First, There is nothing stopping you from applying that argument to this latest WotC fuckery though.
Second, those older books will start becoming unobtainium. Even QAGS, some wacky beer-and-pretzels labor of love autism someone posted about ITT now has a intro apologizing for being white & not a tranny.
Third, going along with that, You will eventually need to find new people to play with, and if the system you run has been wokeified, you're not going to like the people who show up to play.

Nothing stops you from playing what you want, but the pissing-your-pants-in-the-snow of Muh Tableism really irritates me.



The comics IIRC were a little darker/gritter so theming for a SMC would be a little off if people were expecting the comics.
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A dude on youtube has MEGA AUTISM for Mystara as a setting

so he made a Mystara conversion for 5th ed
 
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Manwithn0n0men said:
"In my experience" (YMMV)

Normies and Noobs in THE hobby don't want to play older stuff. Unless the right Grognard/Newfag ratio is achieved.
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If this is what you run into, odds are like someone already said that you can pass on them. Christ, an edition is just a framework for telling whatever story you want to tell and see how it bounces off your players, they may be more or less complex/streamlined but that's the end of it, or at least that's how much a newbie should care. I'd also dare say most noobs wouldn't differentiate jack anyway if I decided to run a 3.5 campaign and said it's current D&D. If I can't sell a TRPG session to a new player purely on setting and he demands to know specific editions, either I've failed to present a compelling hook or he just wants to "do current thing".

It's a whole other beast with veterans of course, but those I expect have very specific systems they favor anyway.

As for woke in new editions of works, yes it's fucking annoying and on principle I will ignore any book that talks about any retarded current thing irrelevant to my medieval fantasy setting, but at the end you can ignore the hell out of it. I've been a player for L5R latest edition for a few sessions and since the only attention I paid to the book was my setup and progressions, nothing has assaulted my senses. I do conceed that the problem is less wasted page space and more the retarded crowd it attracts and that is a problem, but TRPG are also one of yhe easiest hobbies to keep retards out, at least as long as you already have 2-3 similar minded people in the group.

As for old books being lost... well yo ho ho in 4chan is all I have to say.
 
ShitLurker said:
If this is what you run into, odds are like someone already said that you can pass on them. Christ, an edition is just a framework for telling whatever story you want to tell and see how it bounces off your players, they may be more or less complex/streamlined but that's the end of it, or at least that's how much a newbie should care. I'd also dare say most noobs wouldn't differentiate jack anyway if I decided to run a 3.5 campaign and said it's current D&D. If I can't sell a TRPG session to a new player purely on setting and he demands to know specific editions, either I've failed to present a compelling hook or he just wants to "do current thing".

It's a whole other beast with veterans of course, but those I expect have very specific systems they favor anyway.

As for woke in new editions of works, yes it's fucking annoying and on principle I will ignore any book that talks about any retarded current thing irrelevant to my medieval fantasy setting, but at the end you can ignore the hell out of it. I've been a player for L5R latest edition for a few sessions and since the only attention I paid to the book was my setup and progressions, nothing has assaulted my senses. I do conceed that the problem is less wasted page space and more the retarded crowd it attracts and that is a problem, but TRPG are also one of yhe easiest hobbies to keep retards out, at least as long as you already have 2-3 similar minded people in the group.

As for old books being lost... well yo ho ho in 4chan is all I have to say.
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They want to "Do a current thing"

We've had decent luck (because we keep the right ratio) converting Newbs
 
Wormy said:
Uggghhh, please tell me he didn't have anything to do with the original incarnation of Vigil. I really liked that one....
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While I believe he worked on other games, his main claim to fame is being the mastermind behind the literal abortion on paper that is Beast: The Primordial. Word to the wise, avoid that piece of rape apologia like the plague. If you want to understand how shit it really is, read the FATAL and Friends reviews of the books here, here, and here.
 
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The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
While I believe he worked on other games, his main claim to fame is being the mastermind behind the literal abortion on paper that is Beast: The Primordial. Word to the wise, avoid that piece of rape apologia like the plague. If you want to understand how shit it really is, read the FATAL and Friends reviews of the books here, here, and here.
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Oh, I knew about the effluvia that is Beast right when it got vomited onto the scene, and the more I found out about it the worse it got. If he's the one behind it, hooo boy, it explains soooo much.

Now I gotta make sure he didn't do anything to Deviant....
 

He makes a great point. The 3rd party stuff is better, comes out more often, and is cheaper than the official stuff WOTC puts out. So WOTC wants a piece of it.

I wonder if there is data on official product sales vs. 3rd party stuff.
 
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anti SJW said:

He makes a great point. The 3rd party stuff is better, comes out more often, and is cheaper than the official stuff WOTC puts out. So WOTC wants a piece of it.

I wonder if there is data on official product sales vs. 3rd party stuff.
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I'd say that MTG is the biggest IP they own, D&D is just the the one most normies are aware of.

And they can definitely NOT retroactively revoke previous OGL content, because the OGL contains no provisions for this; it contains measures specifically to PREVENT this as a way to reassure creators. If they try, they will be ripped apart in court, if they have a based judge it will be dismissed with prejudice before trial.
HOWEVER
If I sign the OGL 1.1 (which I'm just going to start calling the NGL) I will have voluntarily surrendered my rights under the OGL, and since the NGL says the OGL is invalid, I will have retroactively fucked my older content.

What Wizards CAN do/start doing is trying to hammer creators for any slight breech of the OGL - mentioning Dungeons and Dragons™ , using artwork, or otherwise using IP that is not in a SRD as published under the OGL.
But, WotC will have sentenced themselves to hell.

I'm going to tl;dr this as hard as I've ever done it, I'm going to lose a lot detail:
To maintain a copyright, you must enforce it rigorously. This is why so many IP holders have the "you need to contact us" provisions. If its is widely known you are not enforcing your copyright, and people are using what you created without license, you can lose your copyright.
with the OGL, anything using the SRD is defacto licensed. Moving to the NGL, creators now have to sign. This means they will be obligated to go after anyone not conforming to the NGL, and if they don't, NGL license holders can sue Wizards for not enforcing the copyright they licensed, and effectively removing all rights of Wizard to anything under the NGL and reverting the SRD the NGL covers to effectively public domain.
 
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Alex Macris just announced he will be releasing ACKS II as soon as he can, with all SRD text stripped out of it. It will still, AFAIK, use B/X-style mechanics. So if you want to know who the torch-bearer for non-woke D&D is going to be, it's probably Autarch. Of course, they'll still probably be expelled from KS and every digital storefront anyway.

robobobo said:
White Wolf was very left-leaning from the get-go, at least by the standards where having a gay character in a book was edgy. They've gone completely overboard in recent years, with writers being outed as literal child rapists
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"Oh yeah, White Wolf is super left-wing, they rape kids."

What a world.
 
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Um. Guys?

RDT_20230108_123758575047768831670270.jpg


Who had 'Hasbro/WotC winds up going toe to toe with the Mouse' on their Bingo card?
 
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Jet Fuel Johnny said:
You can't even be bigoted against the goblins that burn down your fucking city every year.
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That was a (mostly) peaceful protest you fucking bigot.
All part and parcel of living in the big city of Kalimdor.
Maybe if the didn't gentrify the farmlands forcing the Xemihumans into moving into the Caves of Chaos none of this would have happened in the first place.
 
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