Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

We just need the Tolkien estate to wade into this to achieve maximum retardation.
You ever read an old comic strip in Dragon Magazine that Phil Foglio did, "What's New!"? There was a hysterically funny one where the main characters have to search through TSR's home office, and upon stumbling on the Legal department find everyone talking about "Bands of metal".

"Let me guess, you're still having it out with Tolkien's estate, aren't you?"
 
I saw a guy using more than two classes exacty once, I *think* he wished to get as many skill proficiencies and he willingly crippled itself for it. Multiclassing already puts you at a disadvantage unless you really know what you're doing, having levels in three classes even more so.
As for Warlock multiclasses, I haven't had one in ages, I believe I mostly saw fighter 1-2/warlock x because bladelock was total ass at the time. I am aware of the warlock/paladin-sorc shenanigans but thankfully never had to deal with them.
Everyone thinks they're being clever by using Hexblade to absolve the Paladin of needing STR, when actually what they are doing is putting themselves first in line for the gas chambers.
 
Cameron: I'm making an anti-whaling movie about how natives are at peace with nature and the whales.

Actual natives like the ones he's fellating: I'm from the Makah and I say kill them all!
You learn right quick about how natives are really like towards nature after living a few years in the Pacific Northwest. Every year there is controversy between the environmentalist hippies and natives over whaling. It doesn't help that a lot of the whale pods here are endangered and often times the state governments end up getting involved. Dipshit Californians like Cameron have no idea what life is like outside his LA bubble. These people really believe that the world is just like LA.
They didn't give a shit about the lore in Dragonlance, what made you think they would care about the lore from what is one of their main sellers which is the Drizzt series? WotC is truly like Disney. They really do not give a shit about the lore at all. To them D&D is to serves only two purposes and that is:
1. Just sell.
2. Increase WotC and Hasbro's ESG score.
That is all they care about. Everything else can be thrown in the trash.
 
20230110_181207.jpg
 

He makes a great point. The 3rd party stuff is better, comes out more often, and is cheaper than the official stuff WOTC puts out. So WOTC wants a piece of it.

I wonder if there is data on official product sales vs. 3rd party stuff.
he's also missing the point that lot of 3rd party stuff is using dmsguild, which already has it's own rules outside the OGL:

which doesn't sound too bad, but then there's this:
Once you activate your Dungeon Masters Guild title for public sale, your account will begin to accrue a 50% royalty every time your title sells.
which means for all the stuff on dmsguild, which a lot of them is fixing/extending official wotc stuff, they already get half of it. now you know why wotc stuff is so shit - it doesn't have to be good, "the community" will fix it, and wotc will still get paid. you can pretty much expect a lot of them will keep using it, even if they gonna get raped harder by the new OGL. what else they gonna do, publish for paizo?

this also reminds me that a while back there was some DTRPG kerfuffle where they basically could blacklist you via "if we deem your content inappropriate we'll remove it, not gonna tell you why, and if you complain publicly we'll remove everything without warning". dunno what came of it tho.

another thing that never came up in all the discussions so far: while DTRPG is pozzed and would probably suck WOTC off no questions asked, look up who they merged with last year: roll20. then remember what WOTC's goal is and they're gonna directly compete with roll20 so everyone has to go to them for their full package. which means inevitably roll20/onebookshelf will loose it's biggest cashcow. I'm curious if they're aware of that, don't care or simply want to get bought out.

The only thing that will kill these companies or get them to change isn't boycotts or creating a "Fandom Menace" but apathy and indifference. It is only by no longer caring about a property anymore that these companies will lose money and be force to do a course correction. We will never see that though because a majority of humans are retarded nigger cattle whose only purposes in life is to consume and to coom. Case in point (and feel free to give me a negative rating) James Cameron's Avatar series is one of the most generic, pretentious, anti-humanist goyslop I have ever seen in my life yet it has made billions and is beloved by retards, especially by those living in developing nations and bugmen. Even self-professed conservatives who are anti-Green agenda and talk about what a dipshit Greta Thunberg is or how evil Bill Gates is go and see this movie multiple times and take their kids to see it. Which goes to show that there is no wining against these corporations or Hollywood. There are way too many docile nigger cattle who just live to consume and to coom and are perfectly happy eating whatever goyslop companies put in the trough.
yes and no. the problem with consoomer sheep is that like a herd of real sheep they're easy point in one direction, but once startled shit gets off the rails fast. they've latched onto dnd for now, but look what happened to star wars and capeshit.

haven't watched avatar (not even the first one, since I never was interested in a blue version of pocahontas), the bigger question is: if you're in the mood for a blockbuster movie, which a lot of people are over the holidays, what else you gonna watch? as shit as it might be, it's probably still the least offensive shit right now, and it has big enough production values to tide you over. so it's only partially about avatar, and more about the rest around it.
and fwiw, apparently it's tracking like rogue one (last I checked, which was a few days ago): so while it made a lot of money initially, it's dropping hard, which means less money than anticipated. which also means the niggercattle isn't as much nigger and cattle as you might think (still a big herd, but it's getting smaller and smaller over time).

Lmao how in the fuck can they even claim Pathfinder even remotely resembles their game anymore; or Starfinder, or anything else by Paizo. I mean I get people who develop supplements and modules and shit for 5E maybe, but I don't see how there's even a legal leg to stand on to warrant this attempt. I could be just retarded but aren't those systems legally distinct enough to not even apply?

What court is gonna hold this shit up?
apparently paizo uses the OGL for ease of use:

1673294180624039.png
 
doublepost since it's not about the OGL:
anyone got any experiences with pelgrane press? bag of holding is running a megabundle for 13 till tomorrow and I'm pondering to pick it up.
 
yes and no. the problem with consoomer sheep is that like a herd of real sheep they're easy point in one direction, but once startled shit gets off the rails fast. they've latched onto dnd for now, but look what happened to star wars and capeshit.
Exactly. Hollywood and their ilk are not some unassailable monolith. Just look at what happened to Disney, the biggest of these pozzed entertainment companies. People will move on if they become jaded with the company (because it wades into politics too much, for example, or becomes manifestly anti-consoomer) and the products themselves are not good enough to make up the difference. That's exactly what Wizards is risking right now. There are just far more things for people to do with their time.
 
I would probably say so. Warhammer itself remained a hot commodity, even as the company got more pozzed. I think that's slowly changing though.
Much as I try my part in planting the seed of "There's other mini's games out there, a lot of them better and more affordable than 40k...." in people, or at least get them into playing with OPR and ditch taking it up the ass each new edition. I'd hope that the tide will change before I'm dead...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ghostse
I wonder how ed greenwood is doing in all this? You know with his iron clad contract and dictatorial control over forgotten relms?
 
this also reminds me that a while back there was some DTRPG kerfuffle where they basically could blacklist you via "if we deem your content inappropriate we'll remove it, not gonna tell you why, and if you complain publicly we'll remove everything without warning". dunno what came of it tho.
That was caused by Venger forcing them. Basically he put out a deliberately inflamatory pride month module, DTRPG look it down "for review" because there was a thinly veiled mention of Rainbow People molesting children and DTRPG has a very clear 'sex and children don't mix' policy. DTRPG took the module off line "for review" because of this and the mass flagging. They had done this to other bits of Derek content, and it was always restored it to the store after review. It was smart, undermine the twitter mob before it gets it dander up, and then quietly put it back once they get bored and move to something else.

Derek was attempting to manufacture controversy to milk donations from the 'alt-right' (Derek isn't left or right, he's just a coomer), he'd done it before, and DTRPG was sick of it and put in a policy that said 'if you try to crybully us while we are REVIEWING your content, we will fire you & your content'. It was pretty much ment for just Venger.
I don't like the policy they put in place because like most knee-jerks its open to very bad abuse, but I understand why they did it.

DTRPG is lefty, but while the owner/operators are 100% pozzed, they way they run the company isn't. They do actually allow speech the owners find objectionable to be sold through their store. (For now)


another thing that never came up in all the discussions so far: while DTRPG is pozzed and would probably suck WOTC off no questions asked, look up who they merged with last year: roll20. then remember what WOTC's goal is and they're gonna directly compete with roll20 so everyone has to go to them for their full package. which means inevitably roll20/onebookshelf will loose it's biggest cashcow. I'm curious if they're aware of that, don't care or simply want to get bought out.
Roll20 are renegging pieces of shit and I hope they die (in Ebberon). And yes, thye have been deep-throating WOTC every since inception.
 
Last edited:
I'm of two minds about this recent hubbub. I've worked adjacent to giant fucking companies for long enough to understand that their frothy mix of dead-eyed bureaucrat CMA lifers, diversity-hires, and MBA sociopaths can make on occasion mind-bogglingly retarded decisions (instead of their usual course of action that is doing absolutely nothing because something is scary) that calls into question everything you know about logic and rationality.

So on one hand this could just be a classic case of a company doing something retarded because they let someone come in with some bold ideas about to how chase the dragon of ever higher ROI but in this case they hired not only a wom*n but one who was sprung from the mount doom of Current Year vidya and happens to not know shit about this particular niche industry. So in other words, they don't know what they're doing and are just trying to grab as much cash as possible before the ship sinks and they sail off in their golden parachute life-rafts.

But the other option might be that they knew how badly this was going to go over so they're (failing at) ripping the band-aid off and will eventually back-down on the crazier stuff that's getting peoples' backs up but make sure to keep all the really nasty stuff that's harder to understand or articulate. As the thread has pointed out, all the big fish will have their own special contracts figured out, it's the poor bastards trying to get big or who might one day be big enough to care that will rue this down the line.

I dunno, I just know that for me really nothing has changed so I get to just laugh at it all from a distance.
 
I'm of two minds about this recent hubbub. I've worked adjacent to giant fucking companies for long enough to understand that their frothy mix of dead-eyed bureaucrat CMA lifers, diversity-hires, and MBA sociopaths can make on occasion mind-bogglingly retarded decisions (instead of their usual course of action that is doing absolutely nothing because something is scary) that calls into question everything you know about logic and rationality.

So on one hand this could just be a classic case of a company doing something retarded because they let someone come in with some bold ideas about to how chase the dragon of ever higher ROI but in this case they hired not only a wom*n but one who was sprung from the mount doom of Current Year vidya and happens to not know shit about this particular niche industry. So in other words, they don't know what they're doing and are just trying to grab as much cash as possible before the ship sinks and they sail off in their golden parachute life-rafts.

But the other option might be that they knew how badly this was going to go over so they're (failing at) ripping the band-aid off and will eventually back-down on the crazier stuff that's getting peoples' backs up but make sure to keep all the really nasty stuff that's harder to understand or articulate. As the thread has pointed out, all the big fish will have their own special contracts figured out, it's the poor bastards trying to get big or who might one day be big enough to care that will rue this down the line.

I dunno, I just know that for me really nothing has changed so I get to just laugh at it all from a distance.
Remember that what immediately preceded this was an investor call where they mentioned that D&D was "undermonetized". This is 100% corporate driven by people won't see a community they see a population of paypigs who aren't giving them enough money.


I'm also just going to say: I'm 100% capitalism and creator rights (until death then public domain you absolute chodes) so the problem isn't that WotC wants a cut. The problem is they put out the OGL to try to (re)build the brand after the schizophrenic treatment of third party content previous (And build the brand it did), but by the nature of the thing didn't do anything else, and now like any rent-seeker they want a cut.
If there was no OGL, no 3.5e SRD, D&D would not have survived & thrived in the internet age as it has. No 5e SRD, 5e wouldn't be the most widely played version. Wizards did nothing other to help these people other than not stomp on their dicks; they didn't help people write/edit the books, or source art, they just made the original SRD and for that believe they deserve a 25% cut of REVENUE.

Want to paywall D&Done content? Fine. (want to paywall 6e content when D&Done turns out to be a wasteful & stupid idea? Fine.) But you don't get to try to take back things from the little people who built your brand.
 
he's also missing the point that lot of 3rd party stuff is using dmsguild, which already has it's own rules outside the OGL:

which doesn't sound too bad, but then there's this:

which means for all the stuff on dmsguild, which a lot of them is fixing/extending official wotc stuff, they already get half of it. now you know why wotc stuff is so shit - it doesn't have to be good, "the community" will fix it, and wotc will still get paid. you can pretty much expect a lot of them will keep using it, even if they gonna get raped harder by the new OGL. what else they gonna do, publish for paizo?

Paizo won't let you use their Golarion IP at all, so no, you won't go publish for Paizo. I don't know why you consider DMs Guild, which lets you use the Forgotten Realms, non-SRD content, official D&D logos, and a packet of professional artwork, to be a bad deal. Who else even offers anything remotely like that? I've never seen anybody be that easy with their IP. As gay and pozzed as WotC has gotten, DMs Guild is far more than anybody else gives you.
 
Paizo won't let you use their Golarion IP at all, so no, you won't go publish for Paizo. I don't know why you consider DMs Guild, which lets you use the Forgotten Realms, non-SRD content, official D&D logos, and a packet of professional artwork, to be a bad deal. Who else even offers anything remotely like that? I've never seen anybody be that easy with their IP. As gay and pozzed as WotC has gotten, DMs Guild is far more than anybody else gives you.
The SRD is primarily for game mechanics and other material that isn't copyrighted, like certain monsters and spells. It was never for campaign setting material.

Hey, @AnOminous where you at?
 
I might but probably not. I'd just say on general principle don't trust anything WotC does, under any circumstances, soy man speak with forked tongue.
Hey, @AnOminous where you at?
I'm probably going to keep up on this enough to let someone else pre-digest it for me. The problem with most of these pseudo-GPL things that have proliferated in the last few years is nobody actually knows how any dispute over them goes in court.

Just on a brief perusal (looking for the "ha ha psych" clause that there has to be with any SJV "license" or "code of conduct" or "contract") one thing really jumps out:

"H. You will not use any of the content or works covered by Section I for any harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing purposes."

So basically the minute you piss off a troon it's gone.

Just that by itself more or less negates anything else the contract says and I don't even need to bother reading any more of it.

Oh, except the very next "lmao psych."

"I. You will not do anything that could harm Our reputation, that of Dungeons & Dragons, or the reputation of the Licensed Content or Unlicensed Content. For purposes of clarity, this provision does not apply to criticism of Wizards of the Coast, Dungeons & Dragons, or the Licensed Content or Unlicensed Content that does not independently violate these provisions."

Yeah.
 
Back